Black Lion Chest Common Tier Rework [Fair Request]

[Shirlias.8104]

Hi,

 

First i want to say that I do appreciate the common drop modifies ( or at least the try ).

 


 

However, since you managed to rework the chests you should have paied attection to more things, which need to be fixed in order to grant players a definitely fair gamble.

 

#Here's the list of items that should be removed or replaced with other items, and the reason behind the request.

 

1. **Hair Stylish kit**

 

> It can't be traded nor sold, and due to the fact that some players do have the permanent tool, BLC should reroll after making a check ( as it happens with skins duplicates ).

 

2. **Upgrade Extractor**

 

> As for the Hair Stylish kit, if the one who opens the chests do already have the endless tool, then the reward should be rolled again.

 

3. **Commemorative Black Lion Token**

 

> It's a filler drop, but could somehow have more value than a mini or a dye. I am not saying that removing it should be a must, but i would like you to consider an alternative ( something unique, since i chose to get a Black Lion Key ).

 

4. **Essence of Luck ( Legendary )**

 

> If the one who opens the chests do already reached the MF cap, then the reward should be rolled again.

 

5. **t5 and t6 materials**

 

> Since we do already have on the loot table the **Black Lion Material Bag**, what's the point of these 2 bags? Or to say it better, what's the point of the 2xT5 material bags? At least would be nice if you decide to remove the t5 bags, since the T6 could have a similar value of Black Lion Material Bag or Commemorative Black Lion Token. But i think that these 2 drops are enough, and both t5 and t6 bags should go.

 

That's it.

 

Any other drop is fine because it can be used though you couldn't find it useful ( Example: To me, who have 600+ transmutation shards, drop more of them would be not the best deal but still something useful and from Black Lion Company ).

 

PS: this thread is not about unique account bound drops from Uncommon and Rare drop lists. If you want to discuss about the fact that some skins are locked behind BLC, I suggest you to open a different thread.

 

Thanks for reading and sharing your thoughts.

[Biff.5312]

The biggest complaint seems to be the luck drop. I'd say your solution is perfect - simply build in a 'guarantee' that players with maxed luck will not receive that drop.

[Anela.3867]

I need all the hairstyle kits and t6 ingredients I can get so I would not like them replaced.

[Vavume.8065]

> @"Anela.3867" said:

> I need all the hairstyle kits and t6 ingredients I can get so I would not like them replaced.

 

You misunderstood, hairstyle kits remain, but would reroll a new item if the player already had a permanent hairstyle contract.

[Shirlias.8104]

> @"Anela.3867" said:

> I need all the hairstyle kits and t6 ingredients I can get so I would not like them replaced.

 

 

> @"Vavume.8065" said:

> > @"Anela.3867" said:

> > I need all the hairstyle kits and t6 ingredients I can get so I would not like them replaced.

>

> You misunderstood, hairstyle kits remain, but would reroll a new item if the player already had a permanent hairstyle contract.

 

Yep.

T6 could also remain ( as said ) but would be better to let T5 go.

[Anela.3867]

> @"Vavume.8065" said:

> > @"Anela.3867" said:

> > I need all the hairstyle kits and t6 ingredients I can get so I would not like them replaced.

>

> You misunderstood, hairstyle kits remain, but would reroll a new item if the player already had a permanent hairstyle contract.

 

Sorry...I did misunderstand. I would kill for a permanent hairstyle kit. If there is someone out there who would like to be a very generous secret Santa, you would be my hero forever!

[Shirlias.8104]

Would also be nice to know the reasons of those who voted **no**.

Unless it's simply hate for those who own permament things or capped luck.

[Donari.5237]

> @"Anela.3867" said:

> > @"Vavume.8065" said:

> > > @"Anela.3867" said:

> > > I need all the hairstyle kits and t6 ingredients I can get so I would not like them replaced.

> >

> > You misunderstood, hairstyle kits remain, but would reroll a new item if the player already had a permanent hairstyle contract.

>

> Sorry...I did misunderstand. I would kill for a permanent hairstyle kit. If there is someone out there who would like to be a very generous secret Santa, you would be my hero forever!

 

Same boat here. I'm hoping my old tonics turn into a permanent stylist kit nest egg fund, but prices are dropping fast enough that I doubt I'll even accrue 1/3 of the TP price of the kit.

 

I voted Other because while I agree it would be a nice QoL I see two caveats: One, coding could be complex since the normal re-rolls are on items unlocked in the Wardrobe, thus account wide, while the kits are individual, character-swappable items. Two, not everyone has shared slots to spare to hold the kit (I certainly do! I just lack the kit :( ), so they could still use consumable kits. In corollary to that, just like your example of the transmutation charges, the kits do have *some* use even for those who hold the permanent one, the more so because they needn't feel bad about using one up.

 

And finally, how many people even *have* the kits? What tiny percentage of the player base? Is it worth the effort of juggling things like this for the sake of the lucky, lucky few? Though yes, it sucks to have one of your BLC rolls used up on something you absolutely didn't need (but can still use for its intended purpose, just redundantly). So ... Other. Not against, not for, I see valid arguments on both sides.

[Shirlias.8104]

> @"Donari.5237" said:

> > @"Anela.3867" said:

> > > @"Vavume.8065" said:

> > > > @"Anela.3867" said:

> > > > I need all the hairstyle kits and t6 ingredients I can get so I would not like them replaced.

> > >

> > > You misunderstood, hairstyle kits remain, but would reroll a new item if the player already had a permanent hairstyle contract.

> >

> > Sorry...I did misunderstand. I would kill for a permanent hairstyle kit. If there is someone out there who would like to be a very generous secret Santa, you would be my hero forever!

>

> Same boat here. I'm hoping my old tonics turn into a permanent stylist kit nest egg fund, but prices are dropping fast enough that I doubt I'll even accrue 1/3 of the TP price of the kit.

>

> I voted Other because while I agree it would be a nice QoL I see two caveats: One, coding could be complex since the normal re-rolls are on items unlocked in the Wardrobe, thus account wide, while the kits are individual, character-swappable items. Two, not everyone has shared slots to spare to hold the kit (I certainly do! I just lack the kit :( ), so they could still use consumable kits. In corollary to that, just like your example of the transmutation charges, the kits do have *some* use even for those who hold the permanent one, the more so because they needn't feel bad about using one up.

>

> And finally, how many people even *have* the kits? What tiny percentage of the player base? Is it worth the effort of juggling things like this for the sake of the lucky, lucky few? Though yes, it sucks to have one of your BLC rolls used up on something you absolutely didn't need (but can still use for its intended purpose, just redundantly). So ... Other. Not against, not for, I see valid arguments on both sides.

 

The reroll do already exists for some items, so won't be a problem at all ( rare items like wintersday minis pack, glider, etc... ).

 

About those who own permanent tools you are right, it's definitely a small part of the population ( but we can't say the same about luck, which is way higher that those who own permanent contracts ). The point is simple btw: buying a RNG chests which gives you duplicates is not really worth it.

 

 

[MokahTGS.7850]

Your solution does not sell more keys. Getting something you don't want in a gambling loot box does not produce the response of "I'm not going to ever do this again." In fact it produces the opposite response. This is clinically proven in addictive gambling studies and also probably backed up by ANets own sales data, which is why you see things the way you do in the chests.

 

Want them to change things...stop making polls and stop buying the keys.

[Donari.5237]

> @"Shirlias.8104" said:

> The reroll do already exists for some items, so won't be a problem at all ( rare items like wintersday minis pack, glider, etc... ).

 

Ah, but as I mentioned, those become account bound in the Wardrobe system. Permanent kits do not. This is why I think it might be harder to code because it would need to check for an item held somewhere on one character rather than in the Wardrobe unlocks. Emphasis 'might' as I am not a programmer in any way, shape, or form.

 

[khani.4786]

That's actually the total makeover kit in the BLC not the hair only kit. Eventhough I have a perma-hair contract I still like getting the total makeover kits from time to time because I can change my face, skin tone, ears, etc.

 

All I want gone is the luck. Sure getting the 1g coin sucks, but it's still 1g. Luck is literally worthless to me since I'm at the cap.

[Shirlias.8104]

> @"MokahTGS.7850" said:

> Your solution does not sell more keys. Getting something you don't want in a gambling loot box does not produce the response of "I'm not going to ever do this again." In fact it produces the opposite response. This is clinically proven in addictive gambling studies and also probably backed up by ANets own sales data, which is why you see things the way you do in the chests.

>

> Want them to change things...stop making polls and stop buying the keys.

 

it's not something I don't want.

It's something i can't use because i already have it.

 

It would be a duplicate.

 

To make an example, the Commemorative Black Lion Token is ok if confronted with a hairstyle kit, if the one who open the chest already has the permanent tool.

And it's not that the Commemorative Black Lion Token is something that I want.

 

It's a trophy which is worth 1g, but still it's better than a duplicate.

The same goes for luck.

 

@"khani.4786" : Yep, total makeover is different and does not exist in a permament version.

[Ayumi Spender.1082]

Don't know exactly what the "Commemorative Black Lion Token" is, but this rework is way too reasonable. Would never get changed that way as it's "too good".

[Shirlias.8104]

> @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said:

> Don't know exactly what the "Commemorative Black Lion Token" is, but this rework is way too reasonable. Would never get changed that way as it's "too good".

 

It's a trohpy which is worth 1g.

a filler item which seems does not have any sense at all ( we should ask the staff but i guess it's only a way to get golds back and fill the reward place with a useless item ).

 

A key is around 20/22g, so you'll get back 1g, which is 4/5% of the key cost.

[MokahTGS.7850]

> @"Shirlias.8104" said:

> > @"MokahTGS.7850" said:

> > Your solution does not sell more keys. Getting something you don't want in a gambling loot box does not produce the response of "I'm not going to ever do this again." In fact it produces the opposite response. This is clinically proven in addictive gambling studies and also probably backed up by ANets own sales data, which is why you see things the way you do in the chests.

> >

> > Want them to change things...stop making polls and stop buying the keys.

>

> it's not something I don't want.

> It's something i can't use because i already have it.

 

But if you buy more keys, which most people do when they don't get what they want or get something they already have or get something they have no need of, it proves my point.

 

Gambling works like that.

 

 

[Ayumi Spender.1082]

> @"MokahTGS.7850" said:

> > @"Shirlias.8104" said:

> > > @"MokahTGS.7850" said:

> > > Your solution does not sell more keys. Getting something you don't want in a gambling loot box does not produce the response of "I'm not going to ever do this again." In fact it produces the opposite response. This is clinically proven in addictive gambling studies and also probably backed up by ANets own sales data, which is why you see things the way you do in the chests.

> > >

> > > Want them to change things...stop making polls and stop buying the keys.

> >

> > it's not something I don't want.

> > It's something i can't use because i already have it.

>

> But if you buy more keys, which most people do when they don't get what they want or get something they already have or get something they have no need of, it proves my point.

>

> Gambling works like that.

>

>

 

I was assuming some of the stuff he posted that people would already have or have the better stuff of is account bound so the most they can do is just throw it and not even NPC is is the issue.

[MokahTGS.7850]

> @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said:

> > @"MokahTGS.7850" said:

> > > @"Shirlias.8104" said:

> > > > @"MokahTGS.7850" said:

> > > > Your solution does not sell more keys. Getting something you don't want in a gambling loot box does not produce the response of "I'm not going to ever do this again." In fact it produces the opposite response. This is clinically proven in addictive gambling studies and also probably backed up by ANets own sales data, which is why you see things the way you do in the chests.

> > > >

> > > > Want them to change things...stop making polls and stop buying the keys.

> > >

> > > it's not something I don't want.

> > > It's something i can't use because i already have it.

> >

> > But if you buy more keys, which most people do when they don't get what they want or get something they already have or get something they have no need of, it proves my point.

> >

> > Gambling works like that.

> >

> >

>

> I was assuming some of the stuff he posted that people would already have or have the better stuff of is account bound so the most they can do is just throw it and not even NPC is is the issue.

 

Maybe but that still doesn't invalidate my point that getting something you have already, don't want, or can't use doesn't stop the urge to gamble, which is what makes BLCs profitable. Changing this may not be to ANet's advantage financially. I know people don't like it...heck, I don't like it, but it's not an accident that it works the way it does.

[Ayumi Spender.1082]

> @"MokahTGS.7850" said:

> > @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said:

> > > @"MokahTGS.7850" said:

> > > > @"Shirlias.8104" said:

> > > > > @"MokahTGS.7850" said:

> > > > > Your solution does not sell more keys. Getting something you don't want in a gambling loot box does not produce the response of "I'm not going to ever do this again." In fact it produces the opposite response. This is clinically proven in addictive gambling studies and also probably backed up by ANets own sales data, which is why you see things the way you do in the chests.

> > > > >

> > > > > Want them to change things...stop making polls and stop buying the keys.

> > > >

> > > > it's not something I don't want.

> > > > It's something i can't use because i already have it.

> > >

> > > But if you buy more keys, which most people do when they don't get what they want or get something they already have or get something they have no need of, it proves my point.

> > >

> > > Gambling works like that.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > I was assuming some of the stuff he posted that people would already have or have the better stuff of is account bound so the most they can do is just throw it and not even NPC is is the issue.

>

> Maybe but that still doesn't invalidate my point that getting something you have already, don't want, or can't use doesn't stop the urge to gamble, which is what makes BLCs profitable. Changing this may not be to ANet's advantage financially. I know people don't like it...heck, I don't like it, but it's not an accident that it works the way it does.

 

I'm honestly fine with it.

I have 40 keys on me because I don't see anything from the last 2 black lion chest updates that I wanted to gamble for (I had 45 earlier today, but decided to just waste 5 for the heck of it). I just can understand the issue behind it.

[Shirlias.8104]

> @"MokahTGS.7850" said:

> > @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said:

> > > @"MokahTGS.7850" said:

> > > > @"Shirlias.8104" said:

> > > > > @"MokahTGS.7850" said:

> > > > > Your solution does not sell more keys. Getting something you don't want in a gambling loot box does not produce the response of "I'm not going to ever do this again." In fact it produces the opposite response. This is clinically proven in addictive gambling studies and also probably backed up by ANets own sales data, which is why you see things the way you do in the chests.

> > > > >

> > > > > Want them to change things...stop making polls and stop buying the keys.

> > > >

> > > > it's not something I don't want.

> > > > It's something i can't use because i already have it.

> > >

> > > But if you buy more keys, which most people do when they don't get what they want or get something they already have or get something they have no need of, it proves my point.

> > >

> > > Gambling works like that.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > I was assuming some of the stuff he posted that people would already have or have the better stuff of is account bound so the most they can do is just throw it and not even NPC is is the issue.

>

> Maybe but that still doesn't invalidate my point that getting something you have already, don't want, or can't use doesn't stop the urge to gamble, which is what makes BLCs profitable. Changing this may not be to ANet's advantage financially. I know people don't like it...heck, I don't like it, but it's not an accident that it works the way it does.

 

It must have a value.

 

If i decide to **play the lottery** and i happen to

 

* win a prize i don't have but i want, i take it.

* win i prize i do already have, i sell it, trade it or give it for free.

 

**Here you can't sell duplicates**, and duplicates have no value if you already own the item.

 

It's not the same.

 

Even i RNG loot boxes games like overwatch, hearthstone, battlerite, paladins, etc... every duplicate you have is converted into currency you can use to buy something else ( in gw2 since there's no general currency it should simply rerolled into something else ).

[nottsgman.8206]

I don't think things like luck should ever be in these chests, it doesn't feel good to roll it even when you aren't max magic find. the rest of the things you suggested I agree with though.

[Gilgamesh VII.8690]

Great change but I still don't see any worth in buying keys with real money.

 

Luck and T5-6 mat bags should defiantly be removed as it's already easily obtained thought normal gameplay.

 

Personal I would like to see extraction tool, transport charges and revive orbs removed aswell, because I don't find them useful.

 

I always believed that the garrateened junk slot should always be a blackloin scrap, so even if you didn't get what you wanted you can still progress towards a Blackloin weapon you always wanted.

[mercury ranique.2170]

I'll give you an honest answer. BL-chests are RNG. This means you can get a useless item. It is what gambling is all about. If you don't like it, don't do it.

[Shirlias.8104]

> @"Gilgamesh VII.8690" said:

> I always believed that the garrateened junk slot should always be a blackloin scrap, so even if you didn't get what you wanted you can still progress towards a Blackloin weapon you always wanted.

 

Could be an idea.

Instead of random seasonal stuff as granted, maybe a scrap which allows you with X tickets to chose what you want from a list.

 

Obviously the list would be

 

* Limited ( can't containt any rare tradable items like nodes or contracts ).

* Account bound ( whatever you decide to buy, it will be account bound. So you won't be able to chose a skin in order to sell it ).

* Common drops would be more reasonable because of the granted ticket.

 

> @"mercury ranique.2170" said:

> I'll give you an honest answer. BL-chests are RNG. This means you can get a useless item. It is what gambling is all about. If you don't like it, don't do it.

 

The RNG here is not the problem, as said many times.

It's the fact that even if you don't like the drop ( or it's a duplicate ) you can't trade it.

 

And because you can't trade, the duplicate items ( and i am not talking about teleport to friend or dyes, because the first can be stacked and used since there's no permanent one, and the second is RNG itself which can be TRADED ) should be fixed instead.

 

Trade or Check.

I don't see any other fair solution here.

[Gilgamesh VII.8690]

> @"Shirlias.8104" said:

> > @"Gilgamesh VII.8690" said:

> > I always believed that the garrateened junk slot should always be a blackloin scrap, so even if you didn't get what you wanted you can still progress towards a Blackloin weapon you always wanted.

>

> Could be an idea.

> Instead of random seasonal stuff as granted, maybe a scrap which allows you with X tickets to chose what you want from a list.

>

> Obviously the list would be

>

> * Limited ( can't containt any rare tradable items like nodes or contracts ).

> * Account bound ( whatever you decide to buy, it will be account bound. So you won't be able to chose a skin in order to sell it ).

> * Common drops would be more reasonable because of the granted ticket.

>

 

If your talking about a separate ticket from the Blackloin scraps, sure the ticket could open the shop menu what let's you chose what you want out of the BLC but with a cost like:

 

*5-10 tickets for a common.

*10-20 tickets for uncommon

*15-30 tickets for rare

 

Making anything obtained thought this method will be account bound as a limit.

 

Sorry for my post to be offtopic. But ya getting duplicates sucks bad when you have the permanent ones, and should be rerolled or just given another key inflate of it like the limit time weapons.