How many WvW guilds must leave the game?

[coglin.1496]

> @"morrolan.9608" said:

> > @"coglin.1496" said:

> > You appear to have no actual understanding of anyone's motivations.

> >

> > T1 for example communities are not tanking to avoid T1. They organized as a community, to minimize playtime as a server, in order to get their closed servers to open up and unlock.

>

> Mag tank to get out of T1, many on SOS have stated they are trying to tank out of T1, many on other servers have said they tank to avoid BG in T1.

 

So you are claiming to be intricately imbedded in each of these servers communities?

 

To convince a reasonable person that you have that kind of time, you must demonstrate that you are perpetually unemployed, or dishonest in your claims of knowledge of thousands of players acrss multiple servers motivations.

[Roxanne.6140]

> @"atheria.2837" said:

> > @"Caliburn.1845" said:

> > The problem with a two server paradigm is that the outcome becomes very binary. One server wins, one server loses. If matches were a day, or two days that might be fine. But for week long matches the losing server would just stay out of WvW after the outcome is determined a day or two into the match-up.

> >

> > When you have three servers, the losing server(or servers) can always go after each other, or sneak around the back while the other two servers are tied up fighting.

> >

> > Think of it like this, your server wakes up the second day of the match to find the enemy server has WPed all your keeps. You own nothing. There is no third server to distract the enemy. There is no third force to push the other side of the map. It is your server trying to push a T3, sieged up, dug in enemy server. Whether you are on the winning or losing server in that battle, it is still not exactly even and fun. There is no third server to break up the static nature of the fight.

> >

> > Likewise four servers won't work, because they would invariably pair up against each other. Five servers and above you get into some potentially interesting dynamics, ie prisoner's dilemma style issues, but that would be such a radical redesign of WvW that I don't think it is really a serious option.

>

> What we have now is much worse than any 1v1 server match could ever be.

 

Isn't it much easier to ktrain when you have only 2 opponents on the wvw maps now? Fewer opponents => less possibility of fights and easier to avoid each other to bang on doors? Unless Anet wants to shrink all maps?

 

oh right, or were u aiming for that rofl

[MadBomber.3719]

> @"coglin.1496" said:

> > @"morrolan.9608" said:

> > > @"coglin.1496" said:

> > > You appear to have no actual understanding of anyone's motivations.

> > >

> > > T1 for example communities are not tanking to avoid T1. They organized as a community, to minimize playtime as a server, in order to get their closed servers to open up and unlock.

> >

> > Mag tank to get out of T1, many on SOS have stated they are trying to tank out of T1, many on other servers have said they tank to avoid BG in T1.

>

> So you are claiming to be intricately imbedded in each of these servers communities?

>

> To convince a reasonable person that you have that kind of time, you must demonstrate that you are perpetually unemployed, or dishonest in your claims of knowledge of thousands of players acrss multiple servers motivations.

 

so where did you get your knowledge of thousands of player's motivations? you seem to know it all.

 

Right now the only closed servers are JQ, Mag, BG. JQ is the only server whos come out and said they want to open (since theyve been closed for at least half a year).

[GDchiaScrub.3241]

> @"MadBomber.3719" said:

> Ever hear that song "Blowing in the Wind" by Bob Dylan? here are some lyrics I have severely butchered

>

> Yes, and how many years can a gamemode sustain

> Before it sustain no more?

> Yes, and how many years can some guilds exist

> Before they all leave the game?

> Yes, and how many times can anet turn it's head

> And pretend that everything is fine?

>

> The answer, my friend, is blowin' in the wind

> The answer is blowin' in the wind.

>

> the point is... 3 major NA WvW guilds have left the game in the last 2 months a 4th is about to go on haitus from the game in the coming week. if anet doesnt act quickly more and more guilds will leave. fights are becoming stale to non-existent. linkings and current matchups are not working. everyone is tanking to avoid T1, other servers are blacking out to open up. things are mess right now. No one knows the direction of where anet is taking WvW. can we get a statement, AMA, anything at this point from anet?? nothing was answered at the last AMA. PVP seems to be having some fruitful discussions lately, i hope the wvw team consider doing something similar. please send help.

 

Which 3 major NA WvW guilds left now (and 4thish)? E.g. I want specifics for posterity's sake.

[Shiyo.3578]

All of them. I've never seen a WVW guild add anything of value to WVW.

[Burnfall.9573]

' **What Can We Do To Make Things Better Now??**

* Fight Amongst Ourselves?

 

* Finally Do Something About It??

 

(former gw2 player)

[inthewoods.8237]

> @"atheria.2837" said:

> > @"coglin.1496" said:

> > You appear to have no actual understanding of anyone's motivations.

> >

> > T1 for example communities are not tanking to avoid T1. They organized as a community, to minimize playtime as a server, in order to get their closed servers to open up and unlock.

>

> Well that's a bunch of garbage.

>

> An understanding of the hundreds who have left the game - over 250 of my own friends - gone - aren't playing any longer, would be great if you were to acknowledge, if you have played the whole five plus years the game has been out.

>

> I think it's you who have no idea what is going on in WvW and that we've lost people because of ridiculous past changes *cough* links, no competition (tourneys) and a

> total lack of interest by the company we are hoping will not completely destroy one of the best gaming modes ever to allow hundreds of players

> to play at any one time.

 

Yes... sadly I look around myself in WvW and at one time I was the junior player.. all these people around me used to have so many more wxp points than me... Now I'm closing in on 3500 wxp points and when I'm in a squad there is maybe two or three out of the 20-30 that have anywhere near 1000 wxp points. The new people know only the new game play which really is blob and shoot. Strategy doesn't exist much anymore. I see some guilds trying to make zerg busting type groups and how do you bust a garbage load of condi that hits you from 30+ people ?

 

A couple days ago I was following a group commanded by someone with a couple hundred wxp... all good since that means he at least has played for a while. In Fire keep there was some resistance and I watched and tried to help as he placed siege in wrong places and got it wiped. Then he just quit and the group was slowly breaking up, not knowing what to do. *sigh*. I tagged, dropped some siege, put out the call to help quick... got the keep. Not a super power thing, just a knowledge thing on what/how to do. We don't have many of these people left anymore. If most people can't power through with a group of #1 spamming condi beasts then they run.. a lot!

 

It's a huge difference from the first few years I played in WvW and it's sad to see. I don't command big zergs/blobs... I'm seriously not interested in that type of play style. I do run havoc groups when I can get a good handful of gamers that want to have some fun and often steal lots of things while the blobbers are on the other side of maps etc.

 

I agree that it's highly unlikely that anything will change since as someone noted... ANet can see people are playing, and frankly don't care whether or not the 'old school' folks have gone away. People are still playing, still spending gems, and at the end of the day that's really all that matters to an enterprise... making money. We won't get balance of population, fight skills, or anything ever so the calls for these things are a waste of time. The best we will ever get is.... oh wait... we're here... pfft

[MadBomber.3719]

> @"GDchiaScrub.3241" said:

>

> Which 3 major NA WvW guilds left now (and 4thish)? E.g. I want specifics for posterity's sake.

 

VR, BoRP, KEK... eM going on haitus. that i know of, im sure there are probably others

[Reaper Alim.4176]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> The game is five years old. It would be amazing if there weren't dozens of guilds leaving the game, burnt-out players, or anything other than a gradual decrease in participation in the game mode that has changed the least. People simply can't sustain interest for that long. Interests change, real life intervenes, and newer, shinier things distract us. It takes a lot of work to counteract the social entropy: for guilds to remain, they have to work hard to invigorate veterans with challenges and attract fresh blood.

>

> So it's almost meaningless to say that participation is declining or that guilds are leaving WvW. It's annoying, frustrating, and potentially depressing, but it's also a fact of gaming that people move on.

 

Lol tell that to guilds and alliances still going strong in Eve Online, ESO, hell even Elite: Dangerous which is a pseudo-MMORPG in space.

 

- This trend that you speak of is only normal in games where the publishers and devs, are uninterested in serving to keep their audiences entertain for the long road.

- This trend is only common in games who's only purpose is to cash and run.

- This trend is only common in games who for the most part don't look at it's gamers as consumers but as farm animals to discard whenever convenient.

- This trend is only common in games with no sight of it's future and is only purpose is to make a quick buck before it dies.

- This trend is only common in games where their devs and publishers are not interested in their legacy. And only interested in how much it can make the quickest amount of money. In the shortest amount of time, with the least amount of resources and attention.

 

These are all signs of the crappy dev teams that been flooding the MMO market recently. Giving the MMO genre the bad status it has now. Again look at quality publishers and dev. teams who actually care about their games.(Blizzard, CCP, ZOS, Frontier Developments.) And you'll see loads of guilds who have been around for many many many years and show no signs of faltering.

[coglin.1496]

> @"MadBomber.3719" said:

> > @"coglin.1496" said:

> > > @"morrolan.9608" said:

> > > > @"coglin.1496" said:

> > > > You appear to have no actual understanding of anyone's motivations.

> > > >

> > > > T1 for example communities are not tanking to avoid T1. They organized as a community, to minimize playtime as a server, in order to get their closed servers to open up and unlock.

> > >

> > > Mag tank to get out of T1, many on SOS have stated they are trying to tank out of T1, many on other servers have said they tank to avoid BG in T1.

> >

> > So you are claiming to be intricately imbedded in each of these servers communities?

> >

> > To convince a reasonable person that you have that kind of time, you must demonstrate that you are perpetually unemployed, or dishonest in your claims of knowledge of thousands of players acrss multiple servers motivations.

>

> so where did you get your knowledge of thousands of player's motivations? you seem to know it all.

>

> Right now the only closed servers are JQ, Mag, BG. JQ is the only server whos come out and said they want to open (since theyve been closed for at least half a year).

 

I only claim to speak for my experience on my server. The rest of my argument was that anyone claiming to speak for others s dishonest. Do you disagree?

 

I dislike when posters lie and claim to speak for others in order to try to give false weight of an entire community to their point. Do you agree it is reasonable to hold posters to the standard of speaking for themselves and allowing others to speak for themselves?

[MadBomber.3719]

> @"coglin.1496" said:

> > @"MadBomber.3719" said:

> > > @"coglin.1496" said:

> > > > @"morrolan.9608" said:

> > > > > @"coglin.1496" said:

> > > > > You appear to have no actual understanding of anyone's motivations.

> > > > >

> > > > > T1 for example communities are not tanking to avoid T1. They organized as a community, to minimize playtime as a server, in order to get their closed servers to open up and unlock.

> > > >

> > > > Mag tank to get out of T1, many on SOS have stated they are trying to tank out of T1, many on other servers have said they tank to avoid BG in T1.

> > >

> > > So you are claiming to be intricately imbedded in each of these servers communities?

> > >

> > > To convince a reasonable person that you have that kind of time, you must demonstrate that you are perpetually unemployed, or dishonest in your claims of knowledge of thousands of players acrss multiple servers motivations.

> >

> > so where did you get your knowledge of thousands of player's motivations? you seem to know it all.

> >

> > Right now the only closed servers are JQ, Mag, BG. JQ is the only server whos come out and said they want to open (since theyve been closed for at least half a year).

>

> I only claim to speak for my experience on my server. The rest of my argument was that anyone claiming to speak for others s dishonest. Do you disagree?

>

> I dislike when posters lie and claim to speak for others in order to try to give false weight of an entire community to their point. Do you agree it is reasonable to hold posters to the standard of speaking for themselves and allowing others to speak for themselves?

 

you were the one who claimed everyone was tanking so they could open and not to avoid T1 and told me i didnt have an understanding. you clearly have no idea what people want either. like i said JQ is the only one whos come out and said they are actively tanking to try to open. while i do not speak for all of maguuma i believe the majority do not want to open, honestly we didnt even want a link after DR. BG obviously is not tanking.

[Chorazin.4107]

> @"Sovereign.1093" said:

> chess is the only balanced online game. =) sorry folks.

>

>

 

It's never going to be perfectly balanced, but the disparity between meta and off meta is far too great in this game. Some things are so bad it makes me question if the balance team even exists. And if they do, do they actually know game mechanics to any proficient level. Or you know, actually use their software, you can sit down for as many scrums as you like but until you actually use the software or talk with stakeholders that have thousands of hours clocked up using the software you might as well be pissing in the wind.

 

Engineers med kit is a prime example of a totally worthless waste of a slot. In fact it was arguably better before it got 'buffed'. Like 80% of signets, as soon as you see some player in wvw with more signets than sense it's like 'ok here's a free kill'. Spirits on Ranger, im not sure where Anet expects these to be used? The list goes on and on, and it's not a new list. This has been the case for literally years.

 

Anet are probably still 'collating data to better determine the usefulness of some skills and traits.' They should have a good idea of skills and traits performance in WvW by about 2020.

[coglin.1496]

> @"MadBomber.3719" said:

> > @"coglin.1496" said:

> > > @"MadBomber.3719" said:

> > > > @"coglin.1496" said:

> > > > > @"morrolan.9608" said:

> > > > > > @"coglin.1496" said:

> > > > > > You appear to have no actual understanding of anyone's motivations.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > T1 for example communities are not tanking to avoid T1. They organized as a community, to minimize playtime as a server, in order to get their closed servers to open up and unlock.

> > > > >

> > > > > Mag tank to get out of T1, many on SOS have stated they are trying to tank out of T1, many on other servers have said they tank to avoid BG in T1.

> > > >

> > > > So you are claiming to be intricately imbedded in each of these servers communities?

> > > >

> > > > To convince a reasonable person that you have that kind of time, you must demonstrate that you are perpetually unemployed, or dishonest in your claims of knowledge of thousands of players acrss multiple servers motivations.

> > >

> > > so where did you get your knowledge of thousands of player's motivations? you seem to know it all.

> > >

> > > Right now the only closed servers are JQ, Mag, BG. JQ is the only server whos come out and said they want to open (since theyve been closed for at least half a year).

> >

> > I only claim to speak for my experience on my server. The rest of my argument was that anyone claiming to speak for others s dishonest. Do you disagree?

> >

> > I dislike when posters lie and claim to speak for others in order to try to give false weight of an entire community to their point. Do you agree it is reasonable to hold posters to the standard of speaking for themselves and allowing others to speak for themselves?

>

> you were the one who claimed everyone was tanking so they could open and not to avoid T1 and told me i didnt have an understanding. you clearly have no idea what people want either. like i said JQ is the only one whos come out and said they are actively tanking to try to open. while i do not speak for all of maguuma i believe the majority do not want to open, honestly we didnt even want a link after DR. BG obviously is not tanking.

 

Can you highlight the section of my post in which I declared "everyone" in any form please?

 

Nevermind, you use Dylan as your reference to make a bad assumtion, then refused to answer my reasonable questions. You are not seeking a discussion, you are seeking for confirmation to your creative assumptions, while attacking anyone who doesn't agree.

 

Carry on sir.

[Haematic.4913]

It's okay lads, the college student generation before us will take over our guilds and carry on our legacy either with the same tag or under a new one.

 

All is well.

 

Also, we all knew the small changes they did with skirmishes & rewards would keep the WvW community in game, short term. The issue is there was no major WvW update "follow-up" regarding population balance which we also all know is the biggest issue. Followed by the way the game mode shaped players habits and play-styles (PPT, Roam, Havok, GvG, "Fites").

 

PPT has been a constant.

Roaming has been a constant (more-or-less).

Havok has been dimishing more-so than roaming.

GvG is almost 10ft under.

"Fites" have been diminishing over time, but, they still exist at least.

 

@"Chaba.5410" had issued a post https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/20401/how-to-really-fix-wvw-through-game-design ... which I think has some really great ideas on how to level the different game modes so that there's some more balance between them.

 

In relation to this post @"MadBomber.3719" , I don't think WvW guilds leaving is going to push them in a direction to help balance the play-styles because WvW has been a revolving door for 3-years now. One day, we'll all be back if they release a major overhaul like we have in the past, maybe that time we'll stick around, maybe not.

 

I won't be holding my breath.

[ThunderPanda.1872]

I think the solution is: Open JQ

[Sylvyn.4750]

> @"morrolan.9608" said:

> > @"coglin.1496" said:

> > You appear to have no actual understanding of anyone's motivations.

> >

> > T1 for example communities are not tanking to avoid T1. They organized as a community, to minimize playtime as a server, in order to get their closed servers to open up and unlock.

>

> Mag tank to get out of T1, many on SOS have stated they are trying to tank out of T1, many on other servers have said they tank to avoid BG in T1.

 

If SoS is trying to tank, they're doing a very bad job of it...they're closer in points to BG than to Mag...you gotta learn from the pros and do it right! ;)

[Sylvyn.4750]

> @"MadBomber.3719" said:

> > @"GDchiaScrub.3241" said:

> >

> > Which 3 major NA WvW guilds left now (and 4thish)? E.g. I want specifics for posterity's sake.

>

> VR, BoRP, KEK... eM going on haitus. that i know of, im sure there are probably others

 

Pretty sure KEK is technically on hiatus, playing another game for the time being, so they might come back in the future.

[Kaiser.9873]

> @"MadBomber.3719" said:

> > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> >

> > I don't see evidence that the "current state" is anything different from previous "current states" in which people declared that the end was nigh. As long as there are people who like ZvZ or roaming, there will be competitive WvW. And no matter how good it gets, people will keep leaving, too.

> >

> although you arent wrong, that mindset is probably why anet continues to neglect wvw. "people still playing everything is fine!"

> so at what point do you draw the line and say things arent ok? my point is how many guilds/ players will have to stop playing before it really is too late?

>

>

 

The sky has been falling on WvW for 5 years now. You aren't the first Chicken Little to post about it, and you definitely won't be the last. The game is/has been stale for a bit, and neither ANet, nor anyone else, knows how to fix it. Bottom line is that all games age. Some age well, and some age poorly.

 

One thing they could have done in the early years before all the, "Important guilds", "Good guilds", "GvG guilds", "Fights guilds", or whatever you want to call them left was to back GvG as their eSport du jour, and perhaps we would have hung onto those players, but maybe not. Maybe they could have fixed rewards sooner, fixed overstacking/bandwagoning, fixed coverage gaps, or in general kept WvW from becoming shabby, but they didn't.

 

Most of the players that left are not coming back as avid WvWers as they were before. There aren't enough new WvW players to replace them. Linking helped prop up the populations enough to keep the game lively. Rewards are keeping many current players playing. There needs to be some kind of overhaul, but no one agrees on what that needs to be. Some want to blow it all up, and some just want a few tweaks.

 

**My idea is to quit the 4 battleground scenario. Time to design 3 rotating extra large battlegrounds. One swamp, one Alpine, and one that is either desert or grassland. Each will have the same type and number of structures. EBG+ if you will. Three spawn points, three large(home) keeps SMC-sized, three smaller(extended) keeps current home keep size, a Central castle(SMC-style) that is really large, 18 towers, 24 camps, and 3 very large open areas that would draw more fight oriented guilds. Everyone fights on that BL for the entire week. The next week the BL changes randomly to one of the other types. Every year they create 3 new BLs to randomly rotate until there are 9 distinct BLs that pop randomly week to week. Population cap should be dynamic based on timezone to promote off hours players to spread out a bit more than is current.**

 

Play or don't. I will keep playing 'til it's not fun anymore then I'm out.

[morrolan.9608]

> @"coglin.1496" said:

> > @"morrolan.9608" said:

> > > @"coglin.1496" said:

> > > You appear to have no actual understanding of anyone's motivations.

> > >

> > > T1 for example communities are not tanking to avoid T1. They organized as a community, to minimize playtime as a server, in order to get their closed servers to open up and unlock.

> >

> > Mag tank to get out of T1, many on SOS have stated they are trying to tank out of T1, many on other servers have said they tank to avoid BG in T1.

>

> So you are claiming to be intricately imbedded in each of these servers communities?

>

> To convince a reasonable person that you have that kind of time, you must demonstrate that you are perpetually unemployed, or dishonest in your claims of knowledge of thousands of players acrss multiple servers motivations.

 

I'm on Mag so I know what that server does, there are statements made here, on reddit and in the gw2wvw discord from your own guild leader about JQ tanking and avoiding BG, likewise there are public comments from other servers, plus I have communicated directly with players from SOS.

[morrolan.9608]

> @"Sylvyn.4750" said:

> > @"morrolan.9608" said:

> > > @"coglin.1496" said:

> > > You appear to have no actual understanding of anyone's motivations.

> > >

> > > T1 for example communities are not tanking to avoid T1. They organized as a community, to minimize playtime as a server, in order to get their closed servers to open up and unlock.

> >

> > Mag tank to get out of T1, many on SOS have stated they are trying to tank out of T1, many on other servers have said they tank to avoid BG in T1.

>

> If SoS is trying to tank, they're doing a very bad job of it...they're closer in points to BG than to Mag...you gotta learn from the pros and do it right! ;)

 

BG are actively propping them up, plus there are undoubtedly some still playing for pips and not caring about being in T1. When Mag has the desert BL its easy for the other servers to k train it for pips with PPT as a flow on effect.

[cobbah.3102]

It doesn't matter how many guilds leave there will always be some coming back as for the "fight guilds" and server commitment they transfer more often than they change their undies . They are elitist who care nothing for the community . I am a pug as they quaintly call us but I have pugged with other pugs and we have so much fun doing all of the things in WvW camps, towers fights yes we didn't have TS or Discord some of us deaf people have no use for these , but we were all like minded and got the job done and had "fun" and I am sure all us pugs will carry on doing the things we do. A tag is just a indicator on the map for us these days ,we pugs like to defend also for a change some are in guilds some are guildless doesn't make them any less capable. Let the server hoppers choose to hop but we will stay until WvW dies completely whenever that happens'

[takatsu.9416]

been hearing from people on different servers and did some server hopping; there are a lot of talk about tanking to avoid T1, some said this was a bad time to join their server because they're not trying... a lot of people/guilds don't want to be there. Of course this isn't the absolute for everyone on all servers, but there definitely is enough of these talks and decisions present

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"Reaper Alim.4176" said:

> > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > The game is five years old. It would be amazing if there weren't dozens of guilds leaving the game, burnt-out players, or anything other than a gradual decrease in participation in the game mode that has changed the least. People simply can't sustain interest for that long. Interests change, real life intervenes, and newer, shinier things distract us. It takes a lot of work to counteract the social entropy: for guilds to remain, they have to work hard to invigorate veterans with challenges and attract fresh blood.

> >

> > So it's almost meaningless to say that participation is declining or that guilds are leaving WvW. It's annoying, frustrating, and potentially depressing, but it's also a fact of gaming that people move on.

>

> Lol tell that to guilds and alliances still going strong in Eve Online, ESO, hell even Elite: Dangerous which is a pseudo-MMORPG in space.

>

> - This trend that you speak of is only normal in games where the publishers and devs, are uninterested in serving to keep their audiences entertain for the long road.

> - This trend is only common in games who's only purpose is to cash and run.

> - This trend is only common in games who for the most part don't look at it's gamers as consumers but as farm animals to discard whenever convenient.

> - This trend is only common in games with no sight of it's future and is only purpose is to make a quick buck before it dies.

> - This trend is only common in games where their devs and publishers are not interested in their legacy. And only interested in how much it can make the quickest amount of money. In the shortest amount of time, with the least amount of resources and attention.

>

> These are all signs of the crappy dev teams that been flooding the MMO market recently. Giving the MMO genre the bad status it has now. Again look at quality publishers and dev. teams who actually care about their games.(Blizzard, CCP, ZOS, Frontier Developments.) And you'll see loads of guilds who have been around for many many many years and show no signs of faltering.

 

No, it's normal in any place that humans gather into groups. Bowling clubs come & go, regardless of whether the bowling league or bowling alley caters to their needs. It happens to political parties, to racing clubs, SCA guilds, etc.

Obviously, it's easier to maintain a guild with support from outside than without. But there are tons of factors that have nothing to do with a studio's attention or inattention: folks stop playing, GL's lose patience, guild members create drama, and so on.

 

So again, stating the fact that participation is down after 5 years is meaningless because there are fewer players after 5 years. Worrying about long-standing guilds leaving WvW or GW2 itself is also premature.

 

That doesn't mean that nothing is wrong; it only means that declining participation and the drop of specific guilds aren't, by themselves, evidence of something being wrong. And they certainly aren't evidence of specific issues.

 

You're also attributing motivation to the studio for which we don't have any evidence at all. We know that not much has changed visibly for WvW, but we don't know how hard (or how not-hard) the devs have worked to find solutions to the difficult problems that WvW faces. And in some cases, the claims are so over the top, it's hard to take them seriously and that tarnishes the other things you're trying to say. (For example: the evidence is that the studio is doubling down on a long term future, with expansions every 18-24 months and LS chapters every 2-3 months; that's the opposite of quick money.)

 

****

WvW faces enormous issues. The WvW community can barely agree on what those issues are and it doesn't much agree on the priorities of addressing them and there's little consensus on what to do about any of them. Consequently, it's hard to imagine what the best move is for ANet. They are going to get slimed by a big portion of the community if they don't act, if they do act (but not the way that folks expected) and if they do act (but not the way that some groups wanted). Plus, many changes to WvW require substantial work without visible impact.

 

I definitely think ANet is underestimating the importance of showing progress of some sort and I do think that there are probably low-effort things they could try that would help.

 

But it doesn't help when we cry that the sky is falling (or has fallen), when we critique the people instead of the issues, when we make exaggerated claims. There's plenty of things wrong; we don't have to make up issues just because we don't like the current direction.

[Rennie.6750]

As many as it takes. There's nothing wrong with players leaving the game, that's part of the game's life cycle. Old players leave, new blood joins. PvE guilds die every day, and nobody makes any drama about it.

 

You're sad that your guild is leaving the game. Fine. There's no need to need to moan in public about it though. WvW is still fun for a lot of us. It's not perfect, but it's still fun. You can complain about balance all you want, it will never happen. At this point, you'd have more success trying to discuss theology and the nature or existence of god, honestly. What matters is "is the current imbalance fun enough"? If not, what new imbalance would you like to see?

[SugarCayne.3098]

Like a phoenix, what will emerge from the ashes will be a purging of individual egos and arise of a brave new world.

 

This isn’t a bad thing.