Torolan.5816 Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 I always assumed that the Norn makes the toughest folk into their leaders if said tough guy or girl has ambitions for something rather unheroic like ruling from the throneroom. I also always assume the worst from the Asura, therefore I think that they constantly bicker and jockey for position at their colleges until they reach out and found/join a crew to continue bickering there. Sylvary probably select their leaders by seniority, any attempt to do otherwise leads to such stunts as the nightmare court. Charr are militaristic, so I assume that they rise through the ranks for so long until you are stopped by a group of old friends in high positions or you someday bugger off to found a redneck militia in the woods where they can tell youngsters how the government kept them down and how they prepare themselves for the day when the black citadel comes under attack by whatever where leadership has only waited for people like them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westenev.5289 Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 > @"Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318" said: > > @"Westenev.5289" said: > > > @"Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318" said: > > > they are both humans. Also it seems that elonians and the bards/tyrians/krytans pretty much seem to have the same average height and mass overall. So u can't give either an advantage either. unless A-net comes in and gives an offical statement of where they might differ physically like how North africans, subsaharan africans physically differ from italians,germans caucasians etc,. they are both nobles so with weight and height seemingly bieng similar. u have to look at upbringing. and even there I don't see anything that would make a krytan noble any different from an elonian one. > > > > > > they are both rich kitten that don't do anything. aside from the occasional minister with some magic or some master in elona with some magic or one that has ties to awakened. > > > > > > ofcourse if u are gonna include nobles like, white mantle training,seraph, shining blade. then this thread is kinda terrible and kills the point of looking at your standard noble if u are going to include exceptions. heck your own player character is still technically an krytan noble if u choose and and u kitten kill baltazard with sohotin. no need even bringing up elonia or cantha. heck even if u make a purposefly noble with elonian features and your own story is that u moved to divinities reach u are still technically an citizin of the bards. > > > > > > Honestly this thread nees to be more specific. > > > > I'm pretty sure HoT proven most nobles and servants had some level of martial or military proficiancy. The Elonians rely soley on their Awakened attendants from chores to putting on their PJ's to go to bed. Based on the feats we've been given, the Krytan nobles we've seen are far more proficiant than Elonian nobles. > > not really. most nobles are just useless npc's that flocker around and do social talks. the thing is. We are given the nobles featured to us in story and in some even essential in some part. those nobles are the exeception.most nobles aren't a queen jennah, or a shining blade, or a white mantle. Most nobles just well are just nobles. that is why the general response is whenever they see danger reaching divinities reach u don't see an entire bunch of nobles just taking arms and whatever. this is why in caudecus manor they flee like a normal person does. > > Kryta has elonian beat in a small percentage of thier nobles taking part in actually fighting on the forefronts. While in elonia that percentage is practically non exisentent. > I think that's a pretty poor example, as the people in Caudicus manor had no weapons, no armour, no hope and were caught entirely off guard by the situation. Of course they were going to let the adventurers handle it - lest we forget, they have families and homes to return to. I'm not saying every krytan noble fights on the front line, what I'm saying is that nobles have the time and money to afford martial training. This means even the likes of Lord Faren or Lord Zaemon have at least some form of sword or magic training. Elonians leave physical labor to the awakened and peasentry, to the point where even you sitting in your chair could probably beat the snozz out of one without breaking a sweat. Therefore, a Krytan would definately have the upper hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oglaf.1074 Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 > @"TheOrlyFactor.8341" said: > > @"Cragga the Eighty Third.6015" said: > > Unless they are wearing power suits and utilizing high-tech brass knuckles and advanced golem backup, this asura ain't interested. > > > > Norn vs Charr, now--that might be worth watching. (Gets popcorn.) > > I'm rooting for the Norn. Lore-wise, none of the playable races would ever stand a chance against a Norn. They're not just big humans, they're actually _even stronger_ than you'd expect based on their size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alga.6498 Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 No Canthan noble or Ascalonian noble? :confounded: We could also have Orrian noble... but as undead, ''_risen_'' noble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2 Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 > @"Westenev.5289" said: > > @"Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318" said: > > > @"Westenev.5289" said: > > > > @"Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318" said: > > > > they are both humans. Also it seems that elonians and the bards/tyrians/krytans pretty much seem to have the same average height and mass overall. So u can't give either an advantage either. unless A-net comes in and gives an offical statement of where they might differ physically like how North africans, subsaharan africans physically differ from italians,germans caucasians etc,. they are both nobles so with weight and height seemingly bieng similar. u have to look at upbringing. and even there I don't see anything that would make a krytan noble any different from an elonian one. > > > > > > > > they are both rich kitten that don't do anything. aside from the occasional minister with some magic or some master in elona with some magic or one that has ties to awakened. > > > > > > > > ofcourse if u are gonna include nobles like, white mantle training,seraph, shining blade. then this thread is kinda terrible and kills the point of looking at your standard noble if u are going to include exceptions. heck your own player character is still technically an krytan noble if u choose and and u kitten kill baltazard with sohotin. no need even bringing up elonia or cantha. heck even if u make a purposefly noble with elonian features and your own story is that u moved to divinities reach u are still technically an citizin of the bards. > > > > > > > > Honestly this thread nees to be more specific. > > > > > > I'm pretty sure HoT proven most nobles and servants had some level of martial or military proficiancy. The Elonians rely soley on their Awakened attendants from chores to putting on their PJ's to go to bed. Based on the feats we've been given, the Krytan nobles we've seen are far more proficiant than Elonian nobles. > > > > not really. most nobles are just useless npc's that flocker around and do social talks. the thing is. We are given the nobles featured to us in story and in some even essential in some part. those nobles are the exeception.most nobles aren't a queen jennah, or a shining blade, or a white mantle. Most nobles just well are just nobles. that is why the general response is whenever they see danger reaching divinities reach u don't see an entire bunch of nobles just taking arms and whatever. this is why in caudecus manor they flee like a normal person does. > > > > Kryta has elonian beat in a small percentage of thier nobles taking part in actually fighting on the forefronts. While in elonia that percentage is practically non exisentent. > > > > I think that's a pretty poor example, as the people in Caudicus manor had no weapons, no armour, no hope and were caught entirely off guard by the situation. Of course they were going to let the adventurers handle it - lest we forget, they have families and homes to return to. > > I'm not saying every krytan noble fights on the front line, what I'm saying is that nobles have the time and money to afford martial training. This means even the likes of Lord Faren or Lord Zaemon have at least some form of sword or magic training. Elonians leave physical labor to the awakened and peasentry, to the point where even you sitting in your chair could probably beat the snozz out of one without breaking a sweat. > > Therefore, a Krytan would definately have the upper hand. I actually think caudecus manor is an excellent example even. nobles supposedely train to be able to defend themselves. and yet when push comes to shove u see see them flocker away like a normal person would, infact not even a response in the likes off, well maby if i had my weapons or anything like that. the nobles that fight are those involved or those that have noticable impact on the story at that period of time. Also elonians also have time and effort to perform training infact one of the hero points in vabbi even has nobles bieng fights. so even then one can argue since nobles leave the hard stuff to awakened ones like any noble does ever in any fictional platform safe for those exceptions. And when those exceptions occur. u will often hear the cliche old''while i may be a rich boy/girl, don't underestimate me kinda stick''. Lord faren is such a noble incarnate. Also nobles in kryta have servant. A noble that does hard physical labour and works his ass off is completely antithetic to a noble. hence u have the nobles that do fight emphasize that fact like queen jennah. u act as if krytan nobles do all the hard work themselves which is wrong considering sevants are a thing even way before PoF came out. Heck even the nobles that do fight like cauaducs have servants so I don't see why the same argument can't be made for elonians. Point is there is very little evidence or no evidence at all that your standard noble in kryta is any more physically fit then your standard elonian noble. Same useless npc's in both nations. it's the krytan nobles who often are in service of the royal throne combat forces aka shining blade your hypothetical parents(if u choose that option) that absolutely kick ass. but then I ask what use is using them as the standard? if cantha ever becomes a thing I predict u will see the same thing there as well. Useless NPC's that aren't any stronger then U and I right now. it will be the same there. Standard Noble krytan noble=standard elonian noble=standard canthan noble Krytan exceptions>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.every noble Then when u pick the krytan exceptions they will shit on the rest of ther lands nobles because thier nobles at best could pose the worth of a hero point challenge while that exceptional krytan noble will have some epic relation to some ancient king or whatever. heck put in queen jennah of kryta and she could likely singlehandely wipe ever elonian noble at the same time if we talk about your noble character(provided u chose that) they are better of just commiting suicide as we speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westenev.5289 Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 > @"Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318" said: > > @"Westenev.5289" said: > > > @"Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318" said: > > > > @"Westenev.5289" said: > > > > > @"Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318" said: > > > > > they are both humans. Also it seems that elonians and the bards/tyrians/krytans pretty much seem to have the same average height and mass overall. So u can't give either an advantage either. unless A-net comes in and gives an offical statement of where they might differ physically like how North africans, subsaharan africans physically differ from italians,germans caucasians etc,. they are both nobles so with weight and height seemingly bieng similar. u have to look at upbringing. and even there I don't see anything that would make a krytan noble any different from an elonian one. > > > > > > > > > > they are both rich kitten that don't do anything. aside from the occasional minister with some magic or some master in elona with some magic or one that has ties to awakened. > > > > > > > > > > ofcourse if u are gonna include nobles like, white mantle training,seraph, shining blade. then this thread is kinda terrible and kills the point of looking at your standard noble if u are going to include exceptions. heck your own player character is still technically an krytan noble if u choose and and u kitten kill baltazard with sohotin. no need even bringing up elonia or cantha. heck even if u make a purposefly noble with elonian features and your own story is that u moved to divinities reach u are still technically an citizin of the bards. > > > > > > > > > > Honestly this thread nees to be more specific. > > > > > > > > I'm pretty sure HoT proven most nobles and servants had some level of martial or military proficiancy. The Elonians rely soley on their Awakened attendants from chores to putting on their PJ's to go to bed. Based on the feats we've been given, the Krytan nobles we've seen are far more proficiant than Elonian nobles. > > > > > > not really. most nobles are just useless npc's that flocker around and do social talks. the thing is. We are given the nobles featured to us in story and in some even essential in some part. those nobles are the exeception.most nobles aren't a queen jennah, or a shining blade, or a white mantle. Most nobles just well are just nobles. that is why the general response is whenever they see danger reaching divinities reach u don't see an entire bunch of nobles just taking arms and whatever. this is why in caudecus manor they flee like a normal person does. > > > > > > Kryta has elonian beat in a small percentage of thier nobles taking part in actually fighting on the forefronts. While in elonia that percentage is practically non exisentent. > > > > > > > I think that's a pretty poor example, as the people in Caudicus manor had no weapons, no armour, no hope and were caught entirely off guard by the situation. Of course they were going to let the adventurers handle it - lest we forget, they have families and homes to return to. > > > > I'm not saying every krytan noble fights on the front line, what I'm saying is that nobles have the time and money to afford martial training. This means even the likes of Lord Faren or Lord Zaemon have at least some form of sword or magic training. Elonians leave physical labor to the awakened and peasentry, to the point where even you sitting in your chair could probably beat the snozz out of one without breaking a sweat. > > > > Therefore, a Krytan would definately have the upper hand. > > I actually think caudecus manor is an excellent example even. nobles supposedely train to be able to defend themselves. and yet when push comes to shove u see see them flocker away like a normal person would, infact not even a response in the likes off, well maby if i had my weapons or anything like that. the nobles that fight are those involved or those that have noticable impact on the story at that period of time. > > Also elonians also have time and effort to perform training infact one of the hero points in vabbi even has nobles bieng fights. so even then one can argue since nobles leave the hard stuff to awakened ones like any noble does ever in any fictional platform safe for those exceptions. And when those exceptions occur. u will often hear the cliche old''while i may be a rich boy/girl, don't underestimate me kinda stick''. Lord faren is such a noble incarnate. Also nobles in kryta have servant. A noble that does hard physical labour and works his kitten off is completely antithetic to a noble. hence u have the nobles that do fight emphasize that fact like queen jennah. > > u act as if krytan nobles do all the hard work themselves which is wrong considering sevants are a thing even way before PoF came out. Heck even the nobles that do fight like cauaducs have servants so I don't see why the same argument can't be made for elonians. > > Point is there is very little evidence or no evidence at all that your standard noble in kryta is any more physically fit then your standard elonian noble. Same useless npc's in both nations. > > it's the krytan nobles who often are in service of the royal throne combat forces aka shining blade your hypothetical parents(if u choose that option) that absolutely kick kitten. but then I ask what use is using them as the standard? > > if cantha ever becomes a thing I predict u will see the same thing there as well. Useless NPC's that aren't any stronger then U and I right now. > > it will be the same there. > > Standard Noble krytan noble=standard elonian noble=standard canthan noble > Krytan exceptions>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.every noble > > Then when u pick the krytan exceptions they will kitten on the rest of ther lands nobles because thier nobles at best could pose the worth of a hero point challenge while that exceptional krytan noble will have some epic relation to some ancient king or whatever. heck put in queen jennah of kryta and she could likely singlehandely wipe ever elonian noble at the same time if we talk about your noble character(provided u chose that) they are better of just commiting suicide as we speak. When you're judging normal people, please use a scale in which normal people actually factor. You list off outliers like Queen Jennah, or people strong enough to be Hero Points - but that's out of context of the topic. What I think is, on average, the normal Krytan noble should be able to beat an Elonian noble given the feats and lore we have seen. Would the fight be grand? No, I don't think so. It would likely be played off as a pathetic joke. Regardless, the Elonian culture is their undoing - Krytans love go-getters, while in Elona go-getting is dangerous slave work. It all comes down to Joko's forced mentality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2 Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 > @"Westenev.5289" said: > > @"Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318" said: > > > @"Westenev.5289" said: > > > > @"Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318" said: > > > > > @"Westenev.5289" said: > > > > > > @"Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318" said: > > > > > > they are both humans. Also it seems that elonians and the bards/tyrians/krytans pretty much seem to have the same average height and mass overall. So u can't give either an advantage either. unless A-net comes in and gives an offical statement of where they might differ physically like how North africans, subsaharan africans physically differ from italians,germans caucasians etc,. they are both nobles so with weight and height seemingly bieng similar. u have to look at upbringing. and even there I don't see anything that would make a krytan noble any different from an elonian one. > > > > > > > > > > > > they are both rich kitten that don't do anything. aside from the occasional minister with some magic or some master in elona with some magic or one that has ties to awakened. > > > > > > > > > > > > ofcourse if u are gonna include nobles like, white mantle training,seraph, shining blade. then this thread is kinda terrible and kills the point of looking at your standard noble if u are going to include exceptions. heck your own player character is still technically an krytan noble if u choose and and u kitten kill baltazard with sohotin. no need even bringing up elonia or cantha. heck even if u make a purposefly noble with elonian features and your own story is that u moved to divinities reach u are still technically an citizin of the bards. > > > > > > > > > > > > Honestly this thread nees to be more specific. > > > > > > > > > > I'm pretty sure HoT proven most nobles and servants had some level of martial or military proficiancy. The Elonians rely soley on their Awakened attendants from chores to putting on their PJ's to go to bed. Based on the feats we've been given, the Krytan nobles we've seen are far more proficiant than Elonian nobles. > > > > > > > > not really. most nobles are just useless npc's that flocker around and do social talks. the thing is. We are given the nobles featured to us in story and in some even essential in some part. those nobles are the exeception.most nobles aren't a queen jennah, or a shining blade, or a white mantle. Most nobles just well are just nobles. that is why the general response is whenever they see danger reaching divinities reach u don't see an entire bunch of nobles just taking arms and whatever. this is why in caudecus manor they flee like a normal person does. > > > > > > > > Kryta has elonian beat in a small percentage of thier nobles taking part in actually fighting on the forefronts. While in elonia that percentage is practically non exisentent. > > > > > > > > > > I think that's a pretty poor example, as the people in Caudicus manor had no weapons, no armour, no hope and were caught entirely off guard by the situation. Of course they were going to let the adventurers handle it - lest we forget, they have families and homes to return to. > > > > > > I'm not saying every krytan noble fights on the front line, what I'm saying is that nobles have the time and money to afford martial training. This means even the likes of Lord Faren or Lord Zaemon have at least some form of sword or magic training. Elonians leave physical labor to the awakened and peasentry, to the point where even you sitting in your chair could probably beat the snozz out of one without breaking a sweat. > > > > > > Therefore, a Krytan would definately have the upper hand. > > > > I actually think caudecus manor is an excellent example even. nobles supposedely train to be able to defend themselves. and yet when push comes to shove u see see them flocker away like a normal person would, infact not even a response in the likes off, well maby if i had my weapons or anything like that. the nobles that fight are those involved or those that have noticable impact on the story at that period of time. > > > > Also elonians also have time and effort to perform training infact one of the hero points in vabbi even has nobles bieng fights. so even then one can argue since nobles leave the hard stuff to awakened ones like any noble does ever in any fictional platform safe for those exceptions. And when those exceptions occur. u will often hear the cliche old''while i may be a rich boy/girl, don't underestimate me kinda stick''. Lord faren is such a noble incarnate. Also nobles in kryta have servant. A noble that does hard physical labour and works his kitten off is completely antithetic to a noble. hence u have the nobles that do fight emphasize that fact like queen jennah. > > > > u act as if krytan nobles do all the hard work themselves which is wrong considering sevants are a thing even way before PoF came out. Heck even the nobles that do fight like cauaducs have servants so I don't see why the same argument can't be made for elonians. > > > > Point is there is very little evidence or no evidence at all that your standard noble in kryta is any more physically fit then your standard elonian noble. Same useless npc's in both nations. > > > > it's the krytan nobles who often are in service of the royal throne combat forces aka shining blade your hypothetical parents(if u choose that option) that absolutely kick kitten. but then I ask what use is using them as the standard? > > > > if cantha ever becomes a thing I predict u will see the same thing there as well. Useless NPC's that aren't any stronger then U and I right now. > > > > it will be the same there. > > > > Standard Noble krytan noble=standard elonian noble=standard canthan noble > > Krytan exceptions>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.every noble > > > > Then when u pick the krytan exceptions they will kitten on the rest of ther lands nobles because thier nobles at best could pose the worth of a hero point challenge while that exceptional krytan noble will have some epic relation to some ancient king or whatever. heck put in queen jennah of kryta and she could likely singlehandely wipe ever elonian noble at the same time if we talk about your noble character(provided u chose that) they are better of just commiting suicide as we speak. > > When you're judging normal people, please use a scale in which normal people actually factor. You list off outliers like Queen Jennah, or people strong enough to be Hero Points - but that's out of context of the topic. What I think is, on average, the normal Krytan noble should be able to beat an Elonian noble given the feats and lore we have seen. > > Would the fight be grand? No, I don't think so. It would likely be played off as a pathetic joke. Regardless, the Elonian culture is their undoing - Krytans love go-getters, while in Elona go-getting is dangerous slave work. It all comes down to Joko's forced mentality. > But that's the problem. the people u mention are all outliers. And that's the problem. lord zamon or faren or any of the krytans that fight are but a small percentage of nobles. they are tons, litterally tons of useless nameles npcs who do nothing. And now we are at a poin in wich elonian nature is now painted as u either do nothign or the rest is slave work while we litterally played an living world in which king joko is actually taking vast amounts of knowledge by the elonians, have an order of shadows, sunspears, explorers either looking for ascension etc. it's not just joko or bust. infact joko is actually benefitting from them. there is no inherent lazzyness in elonian nobles moreso then krytans. the only argument u can make is say that the outliers from krytan nobility are what gives krytan nobility the edge, but as for your standard nobility there is no strong argument to be made in either direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westenev.5289 Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 > @"Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318" said: > > @"Westenev.5289" said: > > > @"Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318" said: > > > > @"Westenev.5289" said: > > > > > @"Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318" said: > > > > > > @"Westenev.5289" said: > > > > > > > @"Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318" said: > > > > > > > they are both humans. Also it seems that elonians and the bards/tyrians/krytans pretty much seem to have the same average height and mass overall. So u can't give either an advantage either. unless A-net comes in and gives an offical statement of where they might differ physically like how North africans, subsaharan africans physically differ from italians,germans caucasians etc,. they are both nobles so with weight and height seemingly bieng similar. u have to look at upbringing. and even there I don't see anything that would make a krytan noble any different from an elonian one. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > they are both rich kitten that don't do anything. aside from the occasional minister with some magic or some master in elona with some magic or one that has ties to awakened. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ofcourse if u are gonna include nobles like, white mantle training,seraph, shining blade. then this thread is kinda terrible and kills the point of looking at your standard noble if u are going to include exceptions. heck your own player character is still technically an krytan noble if u choose and and u kitten kill baltazard with sohotin. no need even bringing up elonia or cantha. heck even if u make a purposefly noble with elonian features and your own story is that u moved to divinities reach u are still technically an citizin of the bards. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Honestly this thread nees to be more specific. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm pretty sure HoT proven most nobles and servants had some level of martial or military proficiancy. The Elonians rely soley on their Awakened attendants from chores to putting on their PJ's to go to bed. Based on the feats we've been given, the Krytan nobles we've seen are far more proficiant than Elonian nobles. > > > > > > > > > > not really. most nobles are just useless npc's that flocker around and do social talks. the thing is. We are given the nobles featured to us in story and in some even essential in some part. those nobles are the exeception.most nobles aren't a queen jennah, or a shining blade, or a white mantle. Most nobles just well are just nobles. that is why the general response is whenever they see danger reaching divinities reach u don't see an entire bunch of nobles just taking arms and whatever. this is why in caudecus manor they flee like a normal person does. > > > > > > > > > > Kryta has elonian beat in a small percentage of thier nobles taking part in actually fighting on the forefronts. While in elonia that percentage is practically non exisentent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think that's a pretty poor example, as the people in Caudicus manor had no weapons, no armour, no hope and were caught entirely off guard by the situation. Of course they were going to let the adventurers handle it - lest we forget, they have families and homes to return to. > > > > > > > > I'm not saying every krytan noble fights on the front line, what I'm saying is that nobles have the time and money to afford martial training. This means even the likes of Lord Faren or Lord Zaemon have at least some form of sword or magic training. Elonians leave physical labor to the awakened and peasentry, to the point where even you sitting in your chair could probably beat the snozz out of one without breaking a sweat. > > > > > > > > Therefore, a Krytan would definately have the upper hand. > > > > > > I actually think caudecus manor is an excellent example even. nobles supposedely train to be able to defend themselves. and yet when push comes to shove u see see them flocker away like a normal person would, infact not even a response in the likes off, well maby if i had my weapons or anything like that. the nobles that fight are those involved or those that have noticable impact on the story at that period of time. > > > > > > Also elonians also have time and effort to perform training infact one of the hero points in vabbi even has nobles bieng fights. so even then one can argue since nobles leave the hard stuff to awakened ones like any noble does ever in any fictional platform safe for those exceptions. And when those exceptions occur. u will often hear the cliche old''while i may be a rich boy/girl, don't underestimate me kinda stick''. Lord faren is such a noble incarnate. Also nobles in kryta have servant. A noble that does hard physical labour and works his kitten off is completely antithetic to a noble. hence u have the nobles that do fight emphasize that fact like queen jennah. > > > > > > u act as if krytan nobles do all the hard work themselves which is wrong considering sevants are a thing even way before PoF came out. Heck even the nobles that do fight like cauaducs have servants so I don't see why the same argument can't be made for elonians. > > > > > > Point is there is very little evidence or no evidence at all that your standard noble in kryta is any more physically fit then your standard elonian noble. Same useless npc's in both nations. > > > > > > it's the krytan nobles who often are in service of the royal throne combat forces aka shining blade your hypothetical parents(if u choose that option) that absolutely kick kitten. but then I ask what use is using them as the standard? > > > > > > if cantha ever becomes a thing I predict u will see the same thing there as well. Useless NPC's that aren't any stronger then U and I right now. > > > > > > it will be the same there. > > > > > > Standard Noble krytan noble=standard elonian noble=standard canthan noble > > > Krytan exceptions>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.every noble > > > > > > Then when u pick the krytan exceptions they will kitten on the rest of ther lands nobles because thier nobles at best could pose the worth of a hero point challenge while that exceptional krytan noble will have some epic relation to some ancient king or whatever. heck put in queen jennah of kryta and she could likely singlehandely wipe ever elonian noble at the same time if we talk about your noble character(provided u chose that) they are better of just commiting suicide as we speak. > > > > When you're judging normal people, please use a scale in which normal people actually factor. You list off outliers like Queen Jennah, or people strong enough to be Hero Points - but that's out of context of the topic. What I think is, on average, the normal Krytan noble should be able to beat an Elonian noble given the feats and lore we have seen. > > > > Would the fight be grand? No, I don't think so. It would likely be played off as a pathetic joke. Regardless, the Elonian culture is their undoing - Krytans love go-getters, while in Elona go-getting is dangerous slave work. It all comes down to Joko's forced mentality. > > > > But that's the problem. the people u mention are all outliers. And that's the problem. lord zamon or faren or any of the krytans that fight are but a small percentage of nobles. they are tons, litterally tons of useless nameles npcs who do nothing. And now we are at a poin in wich elonian nature is now painted as u either do nothign or the rest is slave work while we litterally played an living world in which king joko is actually taking vast amounts of knowledge by the elonians, have an order of shadows, sunspears, explorers either looking for ascension etc. it's not just joko or bust. infact joko is actually benefitting from them. there is no inherent lazzyness in elonian nobles moreso then krytans. > > the only argument u can make is say that the outliers from krytan nobility are what gives krytan nobility the edge, but as for your standard nobility there is no strong argument to be made in either direction. I think you’re looking at it incorrectly; when you see an NPC standing in the same spot for days at a time, it’s not because they don’t have their own lives – it’s because the map is frozen in time, and that’s just where they happened at that given moment. Therefore, we can reason NPC’s have their own lives and skills in the game that have no direct impact on us (hence why we don’t see it). Also, just because Joko has a parasitic relationship with Elona doesn’t mean he trusts mortals further than he can throw them. Humans are cattle, and trained cattle do not rebel against their master. The people with grievances are the common man, who are mistreated by their overseers, exiled or just plain go missing in the middle of the night. So, yes. I do feel it’s very much a “Joko or bust” scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2 Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 > @"Westenev.5289" said: > > @"Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318" said: > > > @"Westenev.5289" said: > > > > @"Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318" said: > > > > > @"Westenev.5289" said: > > > > > > @"Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318" said: > > > > > > > @"Westenev.5289" said: > > > > > > > > @"Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318" said: > > > > > > > > they are both humans. Also it seems that elonians and the bards/tyrians/krytans pretty much seem to have the same average height and mass overall. So u can't give either an advantage either. unless A-net comes in and gives an offical statement of where they might differ physically like how North africans, subsaharan africans physically differ from italians,germans caucasians etc,. they are both nobles so with weight and height seemingly bieng similar. u have to look at upbringing. and even there I don't see anything that would make a krytan noble any different from an elonian one. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > they are both rich kitten that don't do anything. aside from the occasional minister with some magic or some master in elona with some magic or one that has ties to awakened. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ofcourse if u are gonna include nobles like, white mantle training,seraph, shining blade. then this thread is kinda terrible and kills the point of looking at your standard noble if u are going to include exceptions. heck your own player character is still technically an krytan noble if u choose and and u kitten kill baltazard with sohotin. no need even bringing up elonia or cantha. heck even if u make a purposefly noble with elonian features and your own story is that u moved to divinities reach u are still technically an citizin of the bards. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Honestly this thread nees to be more specific. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm pretty sure HoT proven most nobles and servants had some level of martial or military proficiancy. The Elonians rely soley on their Awakened attendants from chores to putting on their PJ's to go to bed. Based on the feats we've been given, the Krytan nobles we've seen are far more proficiant than Elonian nobles. > > > > > > > > > > > > not really. most nobles are just useless npc's that flocker around and do social talks. the thing is. We are given the nobles featured to us in story and in some even essential in some part. those nobles are the exeception.most nobles aren't a queen jennah, or a shining blade, or a white mantle. Most nobles just well are just nobles. that is why the general response is whenever they see danger reaching divinities reach u don't see an entire bunch of nobles just taking arms and whatever. this is why in caudecus manor they flee like a normal person does. > > > > > > > > > > > > Kryta has elonian beat in a small percentage of thier nobles taking part in actually fighting on the forefronts. While in elonia that percentage is practically non exisentent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think that's a pretty poor example, as the people in Caudicus manor had no weapons, no armour, no hope and were caught entirely off guard by the situation. Of course they were going to let the adventurers handle it - lest we forget, they have families and homes to return to. > > > > > > > > > > I'm not saying every krytan noble fights on the front line, what I'm saying is that nobles have the time and money to afford martial training. This means even the likes of Lord Faren or Lord Zaemon have at least some form of sword or magic training. Elonians leave physical labor to the awakened and peasentry, to the point where even you sitting in your chair could probably beat the snozz out of one without breaking a sweat. > > > > > > > > > > Therefore, a Krytan would definately have the upper hand. > > > > > > > > I actually think caudecus manor is an excellent example even. nobles supposedely train to be able to defend themselves. and yet when push comes to shove u see see them flocker away like a normal person would, infact not even a response in the likes off, well maby if i had my weapons or anything like that. the nobles that fight are those involved or those that have noticable impact on the story at that period of time. > > > > > > > > Also elonians also have time and effort to perform training infact one of the hero points in vabbi even has nobles bieng fights. so even then one can argue since nobles leave the hard stuff to awakened ones like any noble does ever in any fictional platform safe for those exceptions. And when those exceptions occur. u will often hear the cliche old''while i may be a rich boy/girl, don't underestimate me kinda stick''. Lord faren is such a noble incarnate. Also nobles in kryta have servant. A noble that does hard physical labour and works his kitten off is completely antithetic to a noble. hence u have the nobles that do fight emphasize that fact like queen jennah. > > > > > > > > u act as if krytan nobles do all the hard work themselves which is wrong considering sevants are a thing even way before PoF came out. Heck even the nobles that do fight like cauaducs have servants so I don't see why the same argument can't be made for elonians. > > > > > > > > Point is there is very little evidence or no evidence at all that your standard noble in kryta is any more physically fit then your standard elonian noble. Same useless npc's in both nations. > > > > > > > > it's the krytan nobles who often are in service of the royal throne combat forces aka shining blade your hypothetical parents(if u choose that option) that absolutely kick kitten. but then I ask what use is using them as the standard? > > > > > > > > if cantha ever becomes a thing I predict u will see the same thing there as well. Useless NPC's that aren't any stronger then U and I right now. > > > > > > > > it will be the same there. > > > > > > > > Standard Noble krytan noble=standard elonian noble=standard canthan noble > > > > Krytan exceptions>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.every noble > > > > > > > > Then when u pick the krytan exceptions they will kitten on the rest of ther lands nobles because thier nobles at best could pose the worth of a hero point challenge while that exceptional krytan noble will have some epic relation to some ancient king or whatever. heck put in queen jennah of kryta and she could likely singlehandely wipe ever elonian noble at the same time if we talk about your noble character(provided u chose that) they are better of just commiting suicide as we speak. > > > > > > When you're judging normal people, please use a scale in which normal people actually factor. You list off outliers like Queen Jennah, or people strong enough to be Hero Points - but that's out of context of the topic. What I think is, on average, the normal Krytan noble should be able to beat an Elonian noble given the feats and lore we have seen. > > > > > > Would the fight be grand? No, I don't think so. It would likely be played off as a pathetic joke. Regardless, the Elonian culture is their undoing - Krytans love go-getters, while in Elona go-getting is dangerous slave work. It all comes down to Joko's forced mentality. > > > > > > > But that's the problem. the people u mention are all outliers. And that's the problem. lord zamon or faren or any of the krytans that fight are but a small percentage of nobles. they are tons, litterally tons of useless nameles npcs who do nothing. And now we are at a poin in wich elonian nature is now painted as u either do nothign or the rest is slave work while we litterally played an living world in which king joko is actually taking vast amounts of knowledge by the elonians, have an order of shadows, sunspears, explorers either looking for ascension etc. it's not just joko or bust. infact joko is actually benefitting from them. there is no inherent lazzyness in elonian nobles moreso then krytans. > > > > the only argument u can make is say that the outliers from krytan nobility are what gives krytan nobility the edge, but as for your standard nobility there is no strong argument to be made in either direction. > > I think you’re looking at it incorrectly; when you see an NPC standing in the same spot for days at a time, it’s not because they don’t have their own lives – it’s because the map is frozen in time, and that’s just where they happened at that given moment. Therefore, we can reason NPC’s have their own lives and skills in the game that have no direct impact on us (hence why we don’t see it). > > Also, just because Joko has a parasitic relationship with Elona doesn’t mean he trusts mortals further than he can throw them. Humans are cattle, and trained cattle do not rebel against their master. The people with grievances are the common man, who are mistreated by their overseers, exiled or just plain go missing in the middle of the night. > > So, yes. I do feel it’s very much a “Joko or bust” scenario. And I completely agree, NPC's are frozen in time or either events are repeated ad infinitum in an MMORPG. However the point is that we now come to my point of thier then bieng either an massive lack of evidence or no evidence at all. Yes what we witness is bassically ''1 day'' outside our instanced stories but that makes the rest aka the standard nobles we are discussing lacking the evidence to show that they do more then just bieng a noble with servants. this is why I say that there is either a severe lack of evidence or no evidence at all. U also forget that nobles besides doing the bidding of palawa joko do actually still have the right to ''borrow'' the lands of joko like landlords.. elonians still work for joko under the eye of the awakened ones. and even then there is no evidence that awakened ones that replace the servants somehow make the elonian nobles physically less stronger then krytan nobles from who we know barely anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westenev.5289 Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 > @"Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318" said: > > @"Westenev.5289" said: > > > @"Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318" said: > > > > @"Westenev.5289" said: > > > > > @"Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318" said: > > > > > > @"Westenev.5289" said: > > > > > > > @"Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318" said: > > > > > > > > @"Westenev.5289" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318" said: > > > > > > > > > they are both humans. Also it seems that elonians and the bards/tyrians/krytans pretty much seem to have the same average height and mass overall. So u can't give either an advantage either. unless A-net comes in and gives an offical statement of where they might differ physically like how North africans, subsaharan africans physically differ from italians,germans caucasians etc,. they are both nobles so with weight and height seemingly bieng similar. u have to look at upbringing. and even there I don't see anything that would make a krytan noble any different from an elonian one. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > they are both rich kitten that don't do anything. aside from the occasional minister with some magic or some master in elona with some magic or one that has ties to awakened. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ofcourse if u are gonna include nobles like, white mantle training,seraph, shining blade. then this thread is kinda terrible and kills the point of looking at your standard noble if u are going to include exceptions. heck your own player character is still technically an krytan noble if u choose and and u kitten kill baltazard with sohotin. no need even bringing up elonia or cantha. heck even if u make a purposefly noble with elonian features and your own story is that u moved to divinities reach u are still technically an citizin of the bards. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Honestly this thread nees to be more specific. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm pretty sure HoT proven most nobles and servants had some level of martial or military proficiancy. The Elonians rely soley on their Awakened attendants from chores to putting on their PJ's to go to bed. Based on the feats we've been given, the Krytan nobles we've seen are far more proficiant than Elonian nobles. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not really. most nobles are just useless npc's that flocker around and do social talks. the thing is. We are given the nobles featured to us in story and in some even essential in some part. those nobles are the exeception.most nobles aren't a queen jennah, or a shining blade, or a white mantle. Most nobles just well are just nobles. that is why the general response is whenever they see danger reaching divinities reach u don't see an entire bunch of nobles just taking arms and whatever. this is why in caudecus manor they flee like a normal person does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kryta has elonian beat in a small percentage of thier nobles taking part in actually fighting on the forefronts. While in elonia that percentage is practically non exisentent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think that's a pretty poor example, as the people in Caudicus manor had no weapons, no armour, no hope and were caught entirely off guard by the situation. Of course they were going to let the adventurers handle it - lest we forget, they have families and homes to return to. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not saying every krytan noble fights on the front line, what I'm saying is that nobles have the time and money to afford martial training. This means even the likes of Lord Faren or Lord Zaemon have at least some form of sword or magic training. Elonians leave physical labor to the awakened and peasentry, to the point where even you sitting in your chair could probably beat the snozz out of one without breaking a sweat. > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefore, a Krytan would definately have the upper hand. > > > > > > > > > > I actually think caudecus manor is an excellent example even. nobles supposedely train to be able to defend themselves. and yet when push comes to shove u see see them flocker away like a normal person would, infact not even a response in the likes off, well maby if i had my weapons or anything like that. the nobles that fight are those involved or those that have noticable impact on the story at that period of time. > > > > > > > > > > Also elonians also have time and effort to perform training infact one of the hero points in vabbi even has nobles bieng fights. so even then one can argue since nobles leave the hard stuff to awakened ones like any noble does ever in any fictional platform safe for those exceptions. And when those exceptions occur. u will often hear the cliche old''while i may be a rich boy/girl, don't underestimate me kinda stick''. Lord faren is such a noble incarnate. Also nobles in kryta have servant. A noble that does hard physical labour and works his kitten off is completely antithetic to a noble. hence u have the nobles that do fight emphasize that fact like queen jennah. > > > > > > > > > > u act as if krytan nobles do all the hard work themselves which is wrong considering sevants are a thing even way before PoF came out. Heck even the nobles that do fight like cauaducs have servants so I don't see why the same argument can't be made for elonians. > > > > > > > > > > Point is there is very little evidence or no evidence at all that your standard noble in kryta is any more physically fit then your standard elonian noble. Same useless npc's in both nations. > > > > > > > > > > it's the krytan nobles who often are in service of the royal throne combat forces aka shining blade your hypothetical parents(if u choose that option) that absolutely kick kitten. but then I ask what use is using them as the standard? > > > > > > > > > > if cantha ever becomes a thing I predict u will see the same thing there as well. Useless NPC's that aren't any stronger then U and I right now. > > > > > > > > > > it will be the same there. > > > > > > > > > > Standard Noble krytan noble=standard elonian noble=standard canthan noble > > > > > Krytan exceptions>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.every noble > > > > > > > > > > Then when u pick the krytan exceptions they will kitten on the rest of ther lands nobles because thier nobles at best could pose the worth of a hero point challenge while that exceptional krytan noble will have some epic relation to some ancient king or whatever. heck put in queen jennah of kryta and she could likely singlehandely wipe ever elonian noble at the same time if we talk about your noble character(provided u chose that) they are better of just commiting suicide as we speak. > > > > > > > > When you're judging normal people, please use a scale in which normal people actually factor. You list off outliers like Queen Jennah, or people strong enough to be Hero Points - but that's out of context of the topic. What I think is, on average, the normal Krytan noble should be able to beat an Elonian noble given the feats and lore we have seen. > > > > > > > > Would the fight be grand? No, I don't think so. It would likely be played off as a pathetic joke. Regardless, the Elonian culture is their undoing - Krytans love go-getters, while in Elona go-getting is dangerous slave work. It all comes down to Joko's forced mentality. > > > > > > > > > > But that's the problem. the people u mention are all outliers. And that's the problem. lord zamon or faren or any of the krytans that fight are but a small percentage of nobles. they are tons, litterally tons of useless nameles npcs who do nothing. And now we are at a poin in wich elonian nature is now painted as u either do nothign or the rest is slave work while we litterally played an living world in which king joko is actually taking vast amounts of knowledge by the elonians, have an order of shadows, sunspears, explorers either looking for ascension etc. it's not just joko or bust. infact joko is actually benefitting from them. there is no inherent lazzyness in elonian nobles moreso then krytans. > > > > > > the only argument u can make is say that the outliers from krytan nobility are what gives krytan nobility the edge, but as for your standard nobility there is no strong argument to be made in either direction. > > > > I think you’re looking at it incorrectly; when you see an NPC standing in the same spot for days at a time, it’s not because they don’t have their own lives – it’s because the map is frozen in time, and that’s just where they happened at that given moment. Therefore, we can reason NPC’s have their own lives and skills in the game that have no direct impact on us (hence why we don’t see it). > > > > Also, just because Joko has a parasitic relationship with Elona doesn’t mean he trusts mortals further than he can throw them. Humans are cattle, and trained cattle do not rebel against their master. The people with grievances are the common man, who are mistreated by their overseers, exiled or just plain go missing in the middle of the night. > > > > So, yes. I do feel it’s very much a “Joko or bust” scenario. > > And I completely agree, NPC's are frozen in time or either events are repeated ad infinitum in an MMORPG. However the point is that we now come to my point of thier then bieng either an massive lack of evidence or no evidence at all. Yes what we witness is bassically ''1 day'' outside our instanced stories but that makes the rest aka the standard nobles we are discussing lacking the evidence to show that they do more then just bieng a noble with servants. this is why I say that there is either a severe lack of evidence or no evidence at all. > > U also forget that nobles besides doing the bidding of palawa joko do actually still have the right to ''borrow'' the lands of joko like landlords.. elonians still work for joko under the eye of the awakened ones. and even then there is no evidence that awakened ones that replace the servants somehow make the elonian nobles physically less stronger then krytan nobles from who we know barely anything. > And look at how that's turning out for the little village on the border of the Desolation. The rights of Joko's cattle really amount to nothing. The thing is, we have seen A LOT of nobles in Vabbi, in predominantly rich areas. We see a lot of utterly pathetic things - unsalvageable clothes, unwashable dishes, "interesting" temple restoration methods. Krytan Nobles, on the other hand, went on holiday... in a WARZONE. Unless I'm very much mistaken, I would say these people would have a fairly "normal" level of combat - and they all survived (with the Commander's help). Even if Krytan nobles had half their mettle, they would likely come out on top. If that weren’t enough, LS3 Ep 4 and Human Personal Story do tend to show nobles who actually do something. Just because a person is rich, it doesn’t mean they’re disabled or have never trained a day in their lives. If anything, it means they have had MORE free time to refine their skills. The thing is, we haven't seen any competent Elonian nobles because they simply don’t need to train - they believe that Joko will always come out on top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genesis.5169 Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 Me, i'd kill and loot them both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2 Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 > @"Westenev.5289" said: > > @"Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318" said: > > > @"Westenev.5289" said: > > > > @"Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318" said: > > > > > @"Westenev.5289" said: > > > > > > @"Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318" said: > > > > > > > @"Westenev.5289" said: > > > > > > > > @"Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Westenev.5289" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318" said: > > > > > > > > > > they are both humans. Also it seems that elonians and the bards/tyrians/krytans pretty much seem to have the same average height and mass overall. So u can't give either an advantage either. unless A-net comes in and gives an offical statement of where they might differ physically like how North africans, subsaharan africans physically differ from italians,germans caucasians etc,. they are both nobles so with weight and height seemingly bieng similar. u have to look at upbringing. and even there I don't see anything that would make a krytan noble any different from an elonian one. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > they are both rich kitten that don't do anything. aside from the occasional minister with some magic or some master in elona with some magic or one that has ties to awakened. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ofcourse if u are gonna include nobles like, white mantle training,seraph, shining blade. then this thread is kinda terrible and kills the point of looking at your standard noble if u are going to include exceptions. heck your own player character is still technically an krytan noble if u choose and and u kitten kill baltazard with sohotin. no need even bringing up elonia or cantha. heck even if u make a purposefly noble with elonian features and your own story is that u moved to divinities reach u are still technically an citizin of the bards. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Honestly this thread nees to be more specific. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm pretty sure HoT proven most nobles and servants had some level of martial or military proficiancy. The Elonians rely soley on their Awakened attendants from chores to putting on their PJ's to go to bed. Based on the feats we've been given, the Krytan nobles we've seen are far more proficiant than Elonian nobles. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not really. most nobles are just useless npc's that flocker around and do social talks. the thing is. We are given the nobles featured to us in story and in some even essential in some part. those nobles are the exeception.most nobles aren't a queen jennah, or a shining blade, or a white mantle. Most nobles just well are just nobles. that is why the general response is whenever they see danger reaching divinities reach u don't see an entire bunch of nobles just taking arms and whatever. this is why in caudecus manor they flee like a normal person does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kryta has elonian beat in a small percentage of thier nobles taking part in actually fighting on the forefronts. While in elonia that percentage is practically non exisentent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think that's a pretty poor example, as the people in Caudicus manor had no weapons, no armour, no hope and were caught entirely off guard by the situation. Of course they were going to let the adventurers handle it - lest we forget, they have families and homes to return to. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not saying every krytan noble fights on the front line, what I'm saying is that nobles have the time and money to afford martial training. This means even the likes of Lord Faren or Lord Zaemon have at least some form of sword or magic training. Elonians leave physical labor to the awakened and peasentry, to the point where even you sitting in your chair could probably beat the snozz out of one without breaking a sweat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefore, a Krytan would definately have the upper hand. > > > > > > > > > > > > I actually think caudecus manor is an excellent example even. nobles supposedely train to be able to defend themselves. and yet when push comes to shove u see see them flocker away like a normal person would, infact not even a response in the likes off, well maby if i had my weapons or anything like that. the nobles that fight are those involved or those that have noticable impact on the story at that period of time. > > > > > > > > > > > > Also elonians also have time and effort to perform training infact one of the hero points in vabbi even has nobles bieng fights. so even then one can argue since nobles leave the hard stuff to awakened ones like any noble does ever in any fictional platform safe for those exceptions. And when those exceptions occur. u will often hear the cliche old''while i may be a rich boy/girl, don't underestimate me kinda stick''. Lord faren is such a noble incarnate. Also nobles in kryta have servant. A noble that does hard physical labour and works his kitten off is completely antithetic to a noble. hence u have the nobles that do fight emphasize that fact like queen jennah. > > > > > > > > > > > > u act as if krytan nobles do all the hard work themselves which is wrong considering sevants are a thing even way before PoF came out. Heck even the nobles that do fight like cauaducs have servants so I don't see why the same argument can't be made for elonians. > > > > > > > > > > > > Point is there is very little evidence or no evidence at all that your standard noble in kryta is any more physically fit then your standard elonian noble. Same useless npc's in both nations. > > > > > > > > > > > > it's the krytan nobles who often are in service of the royal throne combat forces aka shining blade your hypothetical parents(if u choose that option) that absolutely kick kitten. but then I ask what use is using them as the standard? > > > > > > > > > > > > if cantha ever becomes a thing I predict u will see the same thing there as well. Useless NPC's that aren't any stronger then U and I right now. > > > > > > > > > > > > it will be the same there. > > > > > > > > > > > > Standard Noble krytan noble=standard elonian noble=standard canthan noble > > > > > > Krytan exceptions>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.every noble > > > > > > > > > > > > Then when u pick the krytan exceptions they will kitten on the rest of ther lands nobles because thier nobles at best could pose the worth of a hero point challenge while that exceptional krytan noble will have some epic relation to some ancient king or whatever. heck put in queen jennah of kryta and she could likely singlehandely wipe ever elonian noble at the same time if we talk about your noble character(provided u chose that) they are better of just commiting suicide as we speak. > > > > > > > > > > When you're judging normal people, please use a scale in which normal people actually factor. You list off outliers like Queen Jennah, or people strong enough to be Hero Points - but that's out of context of the topic. What I think is, on average, the normal Krytan noble should be able to beat an Elonian noble given the feats and lore we have seen. > > > > > > > > > > Would the fight be grand? No, I don't think so. It would likely be played off as a pathetic joke. Regardless, the Elonian culture is their undoing - Krytans love go-getters, while in Elona go-getting is dangerous slave work. It all comes down to Joko's forced mentality. > > > > > > > > > > > > > But that's the problem. the people u mention are all outliers. And that's the problem. lord zamon or faren or any of the krytans that fight are but a small percentage of nobles. they are tons, litterally tons of useless nameles npcs who do nothing. And now we are at a poin in wich elonian nature is now painted as u either do nothign or the rest is slave work while we litterally played an living world in which king joko is actually taking vast amounts of knowledge by the elonians, have an order of shadows, sunspears, explorers either looking for ascension etc. it's not just joko or bust. infact joko is actually benefitting from them. there is no inherent lazzyness in elonian nobles moreso then krytans. > > > > > > > > the only argument u can make is say that the outliers from krytan nobility are what gives krytan nobility the edge, but as for your standard nobility there is no strong argument to be made in either direction. > > > > > > I think you’re looking at it incorrectly; when you see an NPC standing in the same spot for days at a time, it’s not because they don’t have their own lives – it’s because the map is frozen in time, and that’s just where they happened at that given moment. Therefore, we can reason NPC’s have their own lives and skills in the game that have no direct impact on us (hence why we don’t see it). > > > > > > Also, just because Joko has a parasitic relationship with Elona doesn’t mean he trusts mortals further than he can throw them. Humans are cattle, and trained cattle do not rebel against their master. The people with grievances are the common man, who are mistreated by their overseers, exiled or just plain go missing in the middle of the night. > > > > > > So, yes. I do feel it’s very much a “Joko or bust” scenario. > > > > And I completely agree, NPC's are frozen in time or either events are repeated ad infinitum in an MMORPG. However the point is that we now come to my point of thier then bieng either an massive lack of evidence or no evidence at all. Yes what we witness is bassically ''1 day'' outside our instanced stories but that makes the rest aka the standard nobles we are discussing lacking the evidence to show that they do more then just bieng a noble with servants. this is why I say that there is either a severe lack of evidence or no evidence at all. > > > > U also forget that nobles besides doing the bidding of palawa joko do actually still have the right to ''borrow'' the lands of joko like landlords.. elonians still work for joko under the eye of the awakened ones. and even then there is no evidence that awakened ones that replace the servants somehow make the elonian nobles physically less stronger then krytan nobles from who we know barely anything. > > > > And look at how that's turning out for the little village on the border of the Desolation. The rights of Joko's cattle really amount to nothing. > > The thing is, we have seen A LOT of nobles in Vabbi, in predominantly rich areas. We see a lot of utterly pathetic things - unsalvageable clothes, unwashable dishes, "interesting" temple restoration methods. Krytan Nobles, on the other hand, went on holiday... in a WARZONE. Unless I'm very much mistaken, I would say these people would have a fairly "normal" level of combat. Even if Krytan nobles had half their mettle, they would likely come out on top. > > If that weren’t enough, LS3 Ep 4 and Human Personal Story do tend to show nobles who actually do something. > > Just because a person is rich, it doesn’t mean they’re disabled or have never trained a day in their lives. If anything, it means they have had MORE free time to refine their skills. The thing is, we haven't seen any competent Elonian nobles because they simply don’t need to train - they believe that Joko will always come out on top. That doesn't change the fact that work still isn't done in joko's place. but it kinda becomes hard to reap the spoils of hard works as u just admitted when your rights are little to none. point is the nobles oversee them, Yet at the same time as u noticed those that live in rich places such as vabbi live a different lifestyle aka it's not black and white. I've done the living world and I've done the personal story and u keep re-iterating the same point i already agree one, what u don't seem to understand that there is a difference between strong evidence or evidence at all and what it means to be your standard noble. nobles that went on a vacation which once again were few and a bunch of servants in the warzone still needed protection from you the player/players and faren had an instructor. they didn't just appear on thier own with nobody there. U are simply lacking evidence. ''Infact u say we haven't seen any elonian nobles because we don't need to train.'' yet u don't realise that there is no need to train for krytan nobles as well espically since u admit that they have so much free time. it's leisure not a need. And I see no reason to believe they will train nessiarily with others. Nobles simply are garbage. what u propose is for us to go on the speculating route. quite frankly we will never see time progress in divinities reach or anywhere else in kryta outside of specifief events, personal story or living world till time sets back itself. We simply won't. U talk as if there is an likelyhood the common noble will do take up sword and arms while there is more incentive for elonians. infact joko got owned by balthazar and even infiltrated vabbi. heck he was so dangerous that he even almost killed kraalkatorrik but somehow with joko gone and baltazar at your doorstep with an forged army actually capable enough of killing an elder dragon were it not for you and your OP sword. Nobles still in your eyes have less of an incentive to fight? You are simply not making much sense. We have go to go in a massive speculatory part like far and far to stretch the achievements of the few exceptional noble to your standard krytan npc noble who just well are frozen in time like the elonian nobles are. At that this point the sane thing is still to say. The few krytan nobles who are exceptional(ranging from bieng decent with a sword to destroying white mantle soldiers with a finger and making a shield capable of protecting a city) completely destroy the elonians noble who show some battle capability(hero point nonsense). that is all. the rest is just speculative back and forth one will never find any solid evidence for either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westenev.5289 Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 > @"Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318" said: > > @"Westenev.5289" said: > > > @"Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318" said: > > > > @"Westenev.5289" said: > > > > > @"Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318" said: > > > > > > @"Westenev.5289" said: > > > > > > > @"Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318" said: > > > > > > > > @"Westenev.5289" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Westenev.5289" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318" said: > > > > > > > > > > > they are both humans. Also it seems that elonians and the bards/tyrians/krytans pretty much seem to have the same average height and mass overall. So u can't give either an advantage either. unless A-net comes in and gives an offical statement of where they might differ physically like how North africans, subsaharan africans physically differ from italians,germans caucasians etc,. they are both nobles so with weight and height seemingly bieng similar. u have to look at upbringing. and even there I don't see anything that would make a krytan noble any different from an elonian one. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > they are both rich kitten that don't do anything. aside from the occasional minister with some magic or some master in elona with some magic or one that has ties to awakened. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ofcourse if u are gonna include nobles like, white mantle training,seraph, shining blade. then this thread is kinda terrible and kills the point of looking at your standard noble if u are going to include exceptions. heck your own player character is still technically an krytan noble if u choose and and u kitten kill baltazard with sohotin. no need even bringing up elonia or cantha. heck even if u make a purposefly noble with elonian features and your own story is that u moved to divinities reach u are still technically an citizin of the bards. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Honestly this thread nees to be more specific. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm pretty sure HoT proven most nobles and servants had some level of martial or military proficiancy. The Elonians rely soley on their Awakened attendants from chores to putting on their PJ's to go to bed. Based on the feats we've been given, the Krytan nobles we've seen are far more proficiant than Elonian nobles. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not really. most nobles are just useless npc's that flocker around and do social talks. the thing is. We are given the nobles featured to us in story and in some even essential in some part. those nobles are the exeception.most nobles aren't a queen jennah, or a shining blade, or a white mantle. Most nobles just well are just nobles. that is why the general response is whenever they see danger reaching divinities reach u don't see an entire bunch of nobles just taking arms and whatever. this is why in caudecus manor they flee like a normal person does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kryta has elonian beat in a small percentage of thier nobles taking part in actually fighting on the forefronts. While in elonia that percentage is practically non exisentent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think that's a pretty poor example, as the people in Caudicus manor had no weapons, no armour, no hope and were caught entirely off guard by the situation. Of course they were going to let the adventurers handle it - lest we forget, they have families and homes to return to. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not saying every krytan noble fights on the front line, what I'm saying is that nobles have the time and money to afford martial training. This means even the likes of Lord Faren or Lord Zaemon have at least some form of sword or magic training. Elonians leave physical labor to the awakened and peasentry, to the point where even you sitting in your chair could probably beat the snozz out of one without breaking a sweat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefore, a Krytan would definately have the upper hand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I actually think caudecus manor is an excellent example even. nobles supposedely train to be able to defend themselves. and yet when push comes to shove u see see them flocker away like a normal person would, infact not even a response in the likes off, well maby if i had my weapons or anything like that. the nobles that fight are those involved or those that have noticable impact on the story at that period of time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also elonians also have time and effort to perform training infact one of the hero points in vabbi even has nobles bieng fights. so even then one can argue since nobles leave the hard stuff to awakened ones like any noble does ever in any fictional platform safe for those exceptions. And when those exceptions occur. u will often hear the cliche old''while i may be a rich boy/girl, don't underestimate me kinda stick''. Lord faren is such a noble incarnate. Also nobles in kryta have servant. A noble that does hard physical labour and works his kitten off is completely antithetic to a noble. hence u have the nobles that do fight emphasize that fact like queen jennah. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > u act as if krytan nobles do all the hard work themselves which is wrong considering sevants are a thing even way before PoF came out. Heck even the nobles that do fight like cauaducs have servants so I don't see why the same argument can't be made for elonians. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Point is there is very little evidence or no evidence at all that your standard noble in kryta is any more physically fit then your standard elonian noble. Same useless npc's in both nations. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it's the krytan nobles who often are in service of the royal throne combat forces aka shining blade your hypothetical parents(if u choose that option) that absolutely kick kitten. but then I ask what use is using them as the standard? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if cantha ever becomes a thing I predict u will see the same thing there as well. Useless NPC's that aren't any stronger then U and I right now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it will be the same there. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Standard Noble krytan noble=standard elonian noble=standard canthan noble > > > > > > > Krytan exceptions>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.every noble > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then when u pick the krytan exceptions they will kitten on the rest of ther lands nobles because thier nobles at best could pose the worth of a hero point challenge while that exceptional krytan noble will have some epic relation to some ancient king or whatever. heck put in queen jennah of kryta and she could likely singlehandely wipe ever elonian noble at the same time if we talk about your noble character(provided u chose that) they are better of just commiting suicide as we speak. > > > > > > > > > > > > When you're judging normal people, please use a scale in which normal people actually factor. You list off outliers like Queen Jennah, or people strong enough to be Hero Points - but that's out of context of the topic. What I think is, on average, the normal Krytan noble should be able to beat an Elonian noble given the feats and lore we have seen. > > > > > > > > > > > > Would the fight be grand? No, I don't think so. It would likely be played off as a pathetic joke. Regardless, the Elonian culture is their undoing - Krytans love go-getters, while in Elona go-getting is dangerous slave work. It all comes down to Joko's forced mentality. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But that's the problem. the people u mention are all outliers. And that's the problem. lord zamon or faren or any of the krytans that fight are but a small percentage of nobles. they are tons, litterally tons of useless nameles npcs who do nothing. And now we are at a poin in wich elonian nature is now painted as u either do nothign or the rest is slave work while we litterally played an living world in which king joko is actually taking vast amounts of knowledge by the elonians, have an order of shadows, sunspears, explorers either looking for ascension etc. it's not just joko or bust. infact joko is actually benefitting from them. there is no inherent lazzyness in elonian nobles moreso then krytans. > > > > > > > > > > the only argument u can make is say that the outliers from krytan nobility are what gives krytan nobility the edge, but as for your standard nobility there is no strong argument to be made in either direction. > > > > > > > > I think you’re looking at it incorrectly; when you see an NPC standing in the same spot for days at a time, it’s not because they don’t have their own lives – it’s because the map is frozen in time, and that’s just where they happened at that given moment. Therefore, we can reason NPC’s have their own lives and skills in the game that have no direct impact on us (hence why we don’t see it). > > > > > > > > Also, just because Joko has a parasitic relationship with Elona doesn’t mean he trusts mortals further than he can throw them. Humans are cattle, and trained cattle do not rebel against their master. The people with grievances are the common man, who are mistreated by their overseers, exiled or just plain go missing in the middle of the night. > > > > > > > > So, yes. I do feel it’s very much a “Joko or bust” scenario. > > > > > > And I completely agree, NPC's are frozen in time or either events are repeated ad infinitum in an MMORPG. However the point is that we now come to my point of thier then bieng either an massive lack of evidence or no evidence at all. Yes what we witness is bassically ''1 day'' outside our instanced stories but that makes the rest aka the standard nobles we are discussing lacking the evidence to show that they do more then just bieng a noble with servants. this is why I say that there is either a severe lack of evidence or no evidence at all. > > > > > > U also forget that nobles besides doing the bidding of palawa joko do actually still have the right to ''borrow'' the lands of joko like landlords.. elonians still work for joko under the eye of the awakened ones. and even then there is no evidence that awakened ones that replace the servants somehow make the elonian nobles physically less stronger then krytan nobles from who we know barely anything. > > > > > > > And look at how that's turning out for the little village on the border of the Desolation. The rights of Joko's cattle really amount to nothing. > > > > The thing is, we have seen A LOT of nobles in Vabbi, in predominantly rich areas. We see a lot of utterly pathetic things - unsalvageable clothes, unwashable dishes, "interesting" temple restoration methods. Krytan Nobles, on the other hand, went on holiday... in a WARZONE. Unless I'm very much mistaken, I would say these people would have a fairly "normal" level of combat. Even if Krytan nobles had half their mettle, they would likely come out on top. > > > > If that weren’t enough, LS3 Ep 4 and Human Personal Story do tend to show nobles who actually do something. > > > > Just because a person is rich, it doesn’t mean they’re disabled or have never trained a day in their lives. If anything, it means they have had MORE free time to refine their skills. The thing is, we haven't seen any competent Elonian nobles because they simply don’t need to train - they believe that Joko will always come out on top. > > That doesn't change the fact that work still isn't done in joko's place. but it kinda becomes hard to reap the spoils of hard works as u just admitted when your rights are little to none. point is the nobles oversee them, Yet at the same time as u noticed those that live in rich places such as vabbi live a different lifestyle aka it's not black and white. > > I've done the living world and I've done the personal story and u keep re-iterating the same point i already agree one, what u don't seem to understand that there is a difference between strong evidence or evidence at all and what it means to be your standard noble. nobles that went on a vacation which once again were few and a bunch of servants in the warzone still needed protection from you the player/players and faren had an instructor. they didn't just appear on thier own with nobody there. > > U are simply lacking evidence. ''Infact u say we haven't seen any elonian nobles because we don't need to train.'' yet u don't realise that there is no need to train for krytan nobles as well espically since u admit that they have so much free time. it's leisure not a need. And I see no reason to believe they will train nessiarily with others. > > Nobles simply are garbage. what u propose is for us to go on the speculating route. quite frankly we will never see time progress in divinities reach or anywhere else in kryta outside of specifief events, personal story or living world till time sets back itself. We simply won't. U talk as if there is an likelyhood the common noble will do take up sword and arms while there is more incentive for elonians. infact joko got owned by balthazar and even infiltrated vabbi. heck he was so dangerous that he even almost killed kraalkatorrik but somehow with joko gone and baltazar at your doorstep with an forged army actually capable enough of killing an elder dragon were it not for you and your OP sword. Nobles still in your eyes have less of an incentive to fight? > > You are simply not making much sense. We have go to go in a massive speculatory part like far and far to stretch the achievements of the few exceptional noble to your standard krytan npc noble who just well are frozen in time like the elonian nobles are. At that this point the sane thing is still to say. The few krytan nobles who are exceptional(ranging from bieng decent with a sword to destroying white mantle soldiers with a finger and making a shield capable of protecting a city) completely destroy the elonians noble who show some battle capability(hero point nonsense). > > that is all. the rest is just speculative back and forth one will never find any solid evidence for either way. We've seen time progress in DR - DR (the map), Personal Story, Queensdale, Caudicus Manor, LS1, LS2, HoT and LS3 do give us different timestamps with nobles ranging through differing situations. Is the information from these instances limited? Sure. But it's not like we don't have anything to speculate on - unless you're suggesting EVERY named noble we've ever met who does something is a special OP snowflake. As for combat motivations, it doesn't matter what I think, but what I think the characters themselves think. Look at the Vabbi Academy and the Gardens - both of which are partially branded, yet still very much populated by unarmed civilians. Why would they do this, if they didn't have complete faith in Joko to protect them? Your conclusion, while not false, is as boring as saying "Anet decides who wins". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2 Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 > @"Westenev.5289" said: > > @"Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318" said: > > > @"Westenev.5289" said: > > > > @"Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318" said: > > > > > @"Westenev.5289" said: > > > > > > @"Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318" said: > > > > > > > @"Westenev.5289" said: > > > > > > > > @"Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Westenev.5289" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Westenev.5289" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > they are both humans. Also it seems that elonians and the bards/tyrians/krytans pretty much seem to have the same average height and mass overall. So u can't give either an advantage either. unless A-net comes in and gives an offical statement of where they might differ physically like how North africans, subsaharan africans physically differ from italians,germans caucasians etc,. they are both nobles so with weight and height seemingly bieng similar. u have to look at upbringing. and even there I don't see anything that would make a krytan noble any different from an elonian one. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > they are both rich kitten that don't do anything. aside from the occasional minister with some magic or some master in elona with some magic or one that has ties to awakened. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ofcourse if u are gonna include nobles like, white mantle training,seraph, shining blade. then this thread is kinda terrible and kills the point of looking at your standard noble if u are going to include exceptions. heck your own player character is still technically an krytan noble if u choose and and u kitten kill baltazard with sohotin. no need even bringing up elonia or cantha. heck even if u make a purposefly noble with elonian features and your own story is that u moved to divinities reach u are still technically an citizin of the bards. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Honestly this thread nees to be more specific. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm pretty sure HoT proven most nobles and servants had some level of martial or military proficiancy. The Elonians rely soley on their Awakened attendants from chores to putting on their PJ's to go to bed. Based on the feats we've been given, the Krytan nobles we've seen are far more proficiant than Elonian nobles. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not really. most nobles are just useless npc's that flocker around and do social talks. the thing is. We are given the nobles featured to us in story and in some even essential in some part. those nobles are the exeception.most nobles aren't a queen jennah, or a shining blade, or a white mantle. Most nobles just well are just nobles. that is why the general response is whenever they see danger reaching divinities reach u don't see an entire bunch of nobles just taking arms and whatever. this is why in caudecus manor they flee like a normal person does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kryta has elonian beat in a small percentage of thier nobles taking part in actually fighting on the forefronts. While in elonia that percentage is practically non exisentent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think that's a pretty poor example, as the people in Caudicus manor had no weapons, no armour, no hope and were caught entirely off guard by the situation. Of course they were going to let the adventurers handle it - lest we forget, they have families and homes to return to. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not saying every krytan noble fights on the front line, what I'm saying is that nobles have the time and money to afford martial training. This means even the likes of Lord Faren or Lord Zaemon have at least some form of sword or magic training. Elonians leave physical labor to the awakened and peasentry, to the point where even you sitting in your chair could probably beat the snozz out of one without breaking a sweat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefore, a Krytan would definately have the upper hand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I actually think caudecus manor is an excellent example even. nobles supposedely train to be able to defend themselves. and yet when push comes to shove u see see them flocker away like a normal person would, infact not even a response in the likes off, well maby if i had my weapons or anything like that. the nobles that fight are those involved or those that have noticable impact on the story at that period of time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also elonians also have time and effort to perform training infact one of the hero points in vabbi even has nobles bieng fights. so even then one can argue since nobles leave the hard stuff to awakened ones like any noble does ever in any fictional platform safe for those exceptions. And when those exceptions occur. u will often hear the cliche old''while i may be a rich boy/girl, don't underestimate me kinda stick''. Lord faren is such a noble incarnate. Also nobles in kryta have servant. A noble that does hard physical labour and works his kitten off is completely antithetic to a noble. hence u have the nobles that do fight emphasize that fact like queen jennah. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > u act as if krytan nobles do all the hard work themselves which is wrong considering sevants are a thing even way before PoF came out. Heck even the nobles that do fight like cauaducs have servants so I don't see why the same argument can't be made for elonians. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Point is there is very little evidence or no evidence at all that your standard noble in kryta is any more physically fit then your standard elonian noble. Same useless npc's in both nations. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it's the krytan nobles who often are in service of the royal throne combat forces aka shining blade your hypothetical parents(if u choose that option) that absolutely kick kitten. but then I ask what use is using them as the standard? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if cantha ever becomes a thing I predict u will see the same thing there as well. Useless NPC's that aren't any stronger then U and I right now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it will be the same there. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Standard Noble krytan noble=standard elonian noble=standard canthan noble > > > > > > > > Krytan exceptions>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.every noble > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then when u pick the krytan exceptions they will kitten on the rest of ther lands nobles because thier nobles at best could pose the worth of a hero point challenge while that exceptional krytan noble will have some epic relation to some ancient king or whatever. heck put in queen jennah of kryta and she could likely singlehandely wipe ever elonian noble at the same time if we talk about your noble character(provided u chose that) they are better of just commiting suicide as we speak. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When you're judging normal people, please use a scale in which normal people actually factor. You list off outliers like Queen Jennah, or people strong enough to be Hero Points - but that's out of context of the topic. What I think is, on average, the normal Krytan noble should be able to beat an Elonian noble given the feats and lore we have seen. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Would the fight be grand? No, I don't think so. It would likely be played off as a pathetic joke. Regardless, the Elonian culture is their undoing - Krytans love go-getters, while in Elona go-getting is dangerous slave work. It all comes down to Joko's forced mentality. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But that's the problem. the people u mention are all outliers. And that's the problem. lord zamon or faren or any of the krytans that fight are but a small percentage of nobles. they are tons, litterally tons of useless nameles npcs who do nothing. And now we are at a poin in wich elonian nature is now painted as u either do nothign or the rest is slave work while we litterally played an living world in which king joko is actually taking vast amounts of knowledge by the elonians, have an order of shadows, sunspears, explorers either looking for ascension etc. it's not just joko or bust. infact joko is actually benefitting from them. there is no inherent lazzyness in elonian nobles moreso then krytans. > > > > > > > > > > > > the only argument u can make is say that the outliers from krytan nobility are what gives krytan nobility the edge, but as for your standard nobility there is no strong argument to be made in either direction. > > > > > > > > > > I think you’re looking at it incorrectly; when you see an NPC standing in the same spot for days at a time, it’s not because they don’t have their own lives – it’s because the map is frozen in time, and that’s just where they happened at that given moment. Therefore, we can reason NPC’s have their own lives and skills in the game that have no direct impact on us (hence why we don’t see it). > > > > > > > > > > Also, just because Joko has a parasitic relationship with Elona doesn’t mean he trusts mortals further than he can throw them. Humans are cattle, and trained cattle do not rebel against their master. The people with grievances are the common man, who are mistreated by their overseers, exiled or just plain go missing in the middle of the night. > > > > > > > > > > So, yes. I do feel it’s very much a “Joko or bust” scenario. > > > > > > > > And I completely agree, NPC's are frozen in time or either events are repeated ad infinitum in an MMORPG. However the point is that we now come to my point of thier then bieng either an massive lack of evidence or no evidence at all. Yes what we witness is bassically ''1 day'' outside our instanced stories but that makes the rest aka the standard nobles we are discussing lacking the evidence to show that they do more then just bieng a noble with servants. this is why I say that there is either a severe lack of evidence or no evidence at all. > > > > > > > > U also forget that nobles besides doing the bidding of palawa joko do actually still have the right to ''borrow'' the lands of joko like landlords.. elonians still work for joko under the eye of the awakened ones. and even then there is no evidence that awakened ones that replace the servants somehow make the elonian nobles physically less stronger then krytan nobles from who we know barely anything. > > > > > > > > > > And look at how that's turning out for the little village on the border of the Desolation. The rights of Joko's cattle really amount to nothing. > > > > > > The thing is, we have seen A LOT of nobles in Vabbi, in predominantly rich areas. We see a lot of utterly pathetic things - unsalvageable clothes, unwashable dishes, "interesting" temple restoration methods. Krytan Nobles, on the other hand, went on holiday... in a WARZONE. Unless I'm very much mistaken, I would say these people would have a fairly "normal" level of combat. Even if Krytan nobles had half their mettle, they would likely come out on top. > > > > > > If that weren’t enough, LS3 Ep 4 and Human Personal Story do tend to show nobles who actually do something. > > > > > > Just because a person is rich, it doesn’t mean they’re disabled or have never trained a day in their lives. If anything, it means they have had MORE free time to refine their skills. The thing is, we haven't seen any competent Elonian nobles because they simply don’t need to train - they believe that Joko will always come out on top. > > > > That doesn't change the fact that work still isn't done in joko's place. but it kinda becomes hard to reap the spoils of hard works as u just admitted when your rights are little to none. point is the nobles oversee them, Yet at the same time as u noticed those that live in rich places such as vabbi live a different lifestyle aka it's not black and white. > > > > I've done the living world and I've done the personal story and u keep re-iterating the same point i already agree one, what u don't seem to understand that there is a difference between strong evidence or evidence at all and what it means to be your standard noble. nobles that went on a vacation which once again were few and a bunch of servants in the warzone still needed protection from you the player/players and faren had an instructor. they didn't just appear on thier own with nobody there. > > > > U are simply lacking evidence. ''Infact u say we haven't seen any elonian nobles because we don't need to train.'' yet u don't realise that there is no need to train for krytan nobles as well espically since u admit that they have so much free time. it's leisure not a need. And I see no reason to believe they will train nessiarily with others. > > > > Nobles simply are garbage. what u propose is for us to go on the speculating route. quite frankly we will never see time progress in divinities reach or anywhere else in kryta outside of specifief events, personal story or living world till time sets back itself. We simply won't. U talk as if there is an likelyhood the common noble will do take up sword and arms while there is more incentive for elonians. infact joko got owned by balthazar and even infiltrated vabbi. heck he was so dangerous that he even almost killed kraalkatorrik but somehow with joko gone and baltazar at your doorstep with an forged army actually capable enough of killing an elder dragon were it not for you and your OP sword. Nobles still in your eyes have less of an incentive to fight? > > > > You are simply not making much sense. We have go to go in a massive speculatory part like far and far to stretch the achievements of the few exceptional noble to your standard krytan npc noble who just well are frozen in time like the elonian nobles are. At that this point the sane thing is still to say. The few krytan nobles who are exceptional(ranging from bieng decent with a sword to destroying white mantle soldiers with a finger and making a shield capable of protecting a city) completely destroy the elonians noble who show some battle capability(hero point nonsense). > > > > that is all. the rest is just speculative back and forth one will never find any solid evidence for either way. > > We've seen time progress in DR - DR (the map), Personal Story, Queensdale, Caudicus Manor, LS1, LS2, HoT and LS3 do give us different timestamps with nobles ranging through differing situations. Is the information from these instances limited? Sure. But it's not like we don't have anything to speculate on - unless you're suggesting EVERY named noble we've ever met who does something is a special OP snowflake. > > As for combat motivations, it doesn't matter what I think, but what I think the characters themselves think. Look at the Vabbi Academy and the Gardens - both of which are partially branded, yet still very much populated by unarmed civilians. Why would they do this, if they didn't have complete faith in Joko to protect them? > > Your conclusion, while not false, is as boring as saying "Anet decides who wins". Hmm it doesn't seem we are going to agree anytime soon, gonna have to agree to disagree here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrimm.5624 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 The Charr, whose tail they stepped on while being silly. Cubs...nuff said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konig Des Todes.2086 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 > @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said: > > @"Zacchary.6183" said: > > > @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said: > > > Canthan Noble. The rest of you humans are horrible... > > > ... except Joko and Grenth. They were once human, right? I know Grenth was. > > > > We don't know how useless Canthan Nobles are though. > > Wasn't Shiro a noble? > Either way, if I HAD to pick from the two. The worst would be Elon. They don't even know how to clean themselves. No. He was a commoner who could trace his lineage back to the first Canthan emperor, but a commoner all the same. Same story as King Adelbern's origins, really. > @"Oglaf.1074" said: > > @"TheOrlyFactor.8341" said: > > > @"Cragga the Eighty Third.6015" said: > > > Unless they are wearing power suits and utilizing high-tech brass knuckles and advanced golem backup, this asura ain't interested. > > > > > > Norn vs Charr, now--that might be worth watching. (Gets popcorn.) > > > > I'm rooting for the Norn. > > Lore-wise, none of the playable races would ever stand a chance against a Norn. > > They're not just big humans, they're actually _even stronger_ than you'd expect based on their size. Not really. In Eye of the North, back when norn were proper norn, the Ebon Vanguard stood up to the norn on occasion. Your average norn can take down a dozen average humans, but your above-average human can still take down an above-average norn on occasion. And your average norn is probably more on par to average charr than not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zxkeviin.5647 Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 > @"Zacchary.6183" said: > Hi! I need to talk with you ingame or something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YuckaMountain.3786 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Chuck Norris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry.5713 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Texan nobles are able to win in a fist fight against god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arenta.2953 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 neither, because once their fight is done the Asuran mastermind behind the fight will drag both of them off and turn them into necrotic golems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pifil.5193 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Whichever one has the best training in unarmed combat. Depending on upbringing and family your Krytan or Elonian noble might have been training for or fighting bandits/centaurs/other local threats since they were old enough to hold a sword. Or they might have been pampered court members who don't know which end of a sword goes into the other person. People are far too quick to assume that one person (or a handful) somehow defines the group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardenwolfe.8590 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 > @"Donari.5237" said: > Whoever hires the mightiest champion to fight in their stead will win. Hah! Pretty accurate. Wait. I play a Krytan noble. Um . . . Krytan! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 My vote is on [Lord Faren](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lord_Faren "Lord Faren"), everyone else.. just lacks pizzaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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