Updated: Why the new 'redoable' Hearts icon is very vague

[Eidolonemesis.5640]

> @"Khisanth.2948" said:

> > @"Eidolonemesis.5640" said:

> > > @"Khisanth.2948" said:

> > > You know what is great for explaining things? Words! However you will have to figure out how to get people to actually read or listen.

> > > You assert it is a problem. I don't think it is. A completed heart becomes incomplete. When completed again the award is given again. Then it happens again the next day! It doesn't take much deductive power to figure out that it means the activity is repeatable.

> >

> > Well that is you, and this is me, and as far the two of us go, we do _not_ speak for everybody in our own opinions. Everyone is different. That is why I _did_ mention the idea of TEXT in the tooltips of Hearts as a way to fix the issue, along with several other ideas that can work along with the idea I proposed. Why? So there is more of a universal fix that suits everyone, for those who are visual (like me), and for those who do not mind reading.

> >

> > Therefore, if text were to be added to the tooltips of redoable Hearts after the first completion, the text should read, "Heart completed yet repeatable for rewards upon daily reset."

> >

> > And no, you have that backwards regarding completed Hearts. A completed Heart remains completed (filled in yellow, or as my idea proposes, filled in green) until the next day when it is reset, whereupon the teeny tiny 'Infinity Symbol' shows up at the very bottom of Hearts after the first completion. However, again, I did not know of that mechanic until I asked my Guild why Hearts reset.

>

> They've been around since Ember Bay so there are a couple of options 1) you are new 2) you never revisit any map with the same character as well as always finishing a map within a single day 3) you are simply not paying attention

>

> The infinity symbol is also less of an indicator that it can be repeated and more of an indicator that the heart has already been completed once for the purpose of map completion.

 

You're right. I *did* go through most of Ember Bay in a day, thank you very much, and yes, I did not care so much for the Ember Bay area so as to never return after my first go-around. That being said, my point still stands that it still took me a week within the Crystal Desert to understand that what was happening with the Hearts was not a bug, but an intended new Hearts system.

 

Furthermore, since something like the Heart icon is something I have seen over and over as they always were for years BEFORE the redoable Hearts system was implemented, I do *not* see that as 'not paying attention' (as you put it). I see it as not caring to pay much attention after a certain point. HOWEVER, since I have been playing the Crystal Desert maps for far longer than I did in Ember Bay, and I see that my Hearts are being reset? Yes, I paid enough attention so as to realize something was not the same with the Hearts, then I brought it up in a Guild conversation, and then I composed this thread about the new Hearts system.

 

Whether or not I should have realized the new redoable Hearts system sooner is beside the point. The new Hearts system FAILS to stick out to an obvious degree. It does *not* at all stick out like when a Heart is filled in the original system, screaming, "Hey, look at me! I'm complete, everybody!"

 

Instead, the new Hearts system screams, "Hey, look look at me! I'm complete, everybody! And guess what?! (snickering like the Joker) I'm resetting on you, as if you never completed me to begin with! (followed by another snicker) How?! Well you'll just have to figure it out yourself!!!" To which maniacal joker laughter ensues, "*AHHHHhhhh*, *heh*-*eh*, *eh*, *eh*, *eh*!*"

 

> @"Khisanth.2948" said:

>The infinity symbol is also less of an indicator that it can be repeated and more of an indicator that the heart has already been completed once for the purpose of map completion.

 

Argue what you want at this point. If the Infinity Symbol as a whole is not the answer, with or without what I propose, then something else IS the answer, and whatever that something else may be, that is up for Anet to decide. The purpose of this thread is to get fellow players talking, to get something going rather than sit idly by and do absolutely nothing like many of you here encourage Anet to do, absolutely nothing, because you're too easily pleased to the point a lackluster Hearts system (a core element to the game) does *not* phase you! Anybody with a decent pair of eyeballs can see the Hearts system needs improvement.

 

What almost kills me is you guys act like GW2 is some game created by some unknown, barely-making-it company supported by chump-change donations, that they do not have the funds, the time, or the staff to button-up or polish one of their newest systems. I can assure you there is *nothing* 'scarce' about GW2 other than developers who flesh out their ideas and systematic mechanics better before releasing them to hundreds of thousands of players worldwide online.

[Eidolonemesis.5640]

> @"Taygus.4571" said:

> It's the inifity for the hero points too.

 

Pardon my late reply. Redoable Hearts is one thing, yet redoable Hero Points is a complete joke. It undermines all other Hero Points if all you have to do is farm one or two maps for all your Hero Points (except areas in Central Tyria that give only 1 Hero Point). Heck, at this point, just give us free Hero Points to unlock all our Traits by default, because why not? Redoable Hero Points makes the game even easier than it already was. Oh, and let's backtrack to the days like in GW1 where level 20 was the level cap, because why not?! Insta-level 80 items, along with oodles of easily acquired experience scrolls, makes the game easier than it already was. Such bright ideas! What's next to improve the game to such a groundbreaking degree? I can't wait to see!

 

You're right, at this point I am going a little off topic, although not really since there are 'redoable' Hero Points, too. Conclusively, this is the direction the game is going (and has been going), along with its other broken and/or poorly implemented and explained systems, and the majority of you here do not care! Saaaaaaay somethin'! (in the voice of a sarcastic hillbilly [i got nothin' on hillbillies, btw; most of them are real chill people if you get to know one, much like myself. Just don't tick em off]).

 

**EDIT:** Given what Ashen.2907 says is true (below) about the new redoable Hero Points, I withdraw from my ridicule in the above stated regarding redoable Hero Points. However, everything else I said remains the same.

[Ashen.2907]

> @"Eidolonemesis.5640" said:

> > @"Taygus.4571" said:

> > It's the inifity for the hero points too.

>

> Pardon my late reply. Redoable Hearts is one thing, yet redoable Hero Points is a complete joke. It undermines all other Hero Points if all you have to do is farm one or two maps for all your Hero Points (except areas in Central Tyria that give only 1 Hero Point). Heck, at this point, just give us free Hero Points to unlock all our Traits by default, because why not? Redoable Hero Points makes the game even easier than it already was. Oh, and let's backtrack to the days like in GW1 where level 20 was the level cap, because why not?! Insta-level 80 items, along with oodles of easily acquired experience scrolls, makes the game easier than it already was. Such bright ideas! What's next to improve the game to such a groundbreaking degree? I can't wait to see!

 

 

Have you actually looked into the repeatable HP? They only grant a hero point the first time. Other rewards are given for subsequent completion.

[Eidolonemesis.5640]

> @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > @"Eidolonemesis.5640" said:

> > > @"Taygus.4571" said:

> > > It's the inifity for the hero points too.

> >

> > Pardon my late reply. Redoable Hearts is one thing, yet redoable Hero Points is a complete joke. It undermines all other Hero Points if all you have to do is farm one or two maps for all your Hero Points (except areas in Central Tyria that give only 1 Hero Point). Heck, at this point, just give us free Hero Points to unlock all our Traits by default, because why not? Redoable Hero Points makes the game even easier than it already was. Oh, and let's backtrack to the days like in GW1 where level 20 was the level cap, because why not?! Insta-level 80 items, along with oodles of easily acquired experience scrolls, makes the game easier than it already was. Such bright ideas! What's next to improve the game to such a groundbreaking degree? I can't wait to see!

>

>

> Have you actually looked into the repeatable HP? They only grant a hero point the first time. Other rewards are given for subsequent completion.

 

Correction. Hero Points in any of the new maps now grant 10 Hero Points each upon the first completion, ever since HoT. Now, as for subsequent rewards for completing the Hero Points again? No, I have not touched any of the Hero Points in any of the new maps for reason being every character I've leveled to 80 has their Traits completed.

 

With that being said in mind, in the event the new redoable Hero Points do *not* grant players an additional 10 Hero Points, then I withdraw my ridicule against the new Hero Points. And as for the rest of what I said regarding the direction the game is going and has been going? Irrefutable facts are irrefutable facts, unless somebody wants to argue against them because they like everything easy mode, or... because they like to stir the pot for thrills.

[Umut.5471]

Repeatable hearts are ok but their vendors should be unlocked permanently after you complete them once.

[Eidolonemesis.5640]

> @"Umut.5471" said:

> Repeatable hearts are ok but their vendors should be unlocked permanently after you complete them once.

 

I agree. Repeatable Hearts are great! The concept, however, was poorly executed presentation-wise, and the fact vendors become locked again upon every reset. All locking the vendors does is create more grind than already exists in the game. Instead of Guild Wars 2, we should just call the game Grind Wars 2, because that is the direction the game is going, even more toward a second-job grindfest than a funfest. No thanks.

 

I left the game for a while for a reason, and then came back after months and months, only to find nothing changes, other than a little tinsel around the edges to make the game look good, and some cannon-fired confetti to make the game seem fascinating.

[Vayne.8563]

I just want the content finder to stop pointing to hearts I've already done when I'm trying to get zone completion. The icon, as it stands, is acceptable to me. Not that it would hurt me if it changed colors.

[Ashen.2907]

> @"Eidolonemesis.5640" said:

> > @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > > @"Eidolonemesis.5640" said:

> > > > @"Taygus.4571" said:

> > > > It's the inifity for the hero points too.

> > >

> > > Pardon my late reply. Redoable Hearts is one thing, yet redoable Hero Points is a complete joke. It undermines all other Hero Points if all you have to do is farm one or two maps for all your Hero Points (except areas in Central Tyria that give only 1 Hero Point). Heck, at this point, just give us free Hero Points to unlock all our Traits by default, because why not? Redoable Hero Points makes the game even easier than it already was. Oh, and let's backtrack to the days like in GW1 where level 20 was the level cap, because why not?! Insta-level 80 items, along with oodles of easily acquired experience scrolls, makes the game easier than it already was. Such bright ideas! What's next to improve the game to such a groundbreaking degree? I can't wait to see!

> >

> >

> > Have you actually looked into the repeatable HP? They only grant a hero point the first time. Other rewards are given for subsequent completion.

>

> Correction. Hero Points in any of the new maps now grant 10 Hero Points each upon the first completion, ever since HoT. Now, as for subsequent rewards for completing the Hero Points again? No, I have not touched any of the Hero Points in any of the new maps for reason being every character I've leveled to 80 has their Traits completed.

>

> With that being said in mind, in the event the new redoable Hero Points do *not* grant players an additional 10 Hero Points, then I withdraw my ridicule against the new Hero Points. And as for the rest of what I said regarding the direction the game is going and has been going? Irrefutable facts are irrefutable facts, unless somebody wants to argue against them because they like everything easy mode, or... because they like to stir the pot for thrills.

 

So, your ridicule of a system that doesn't exist stands? Right... Oh look, there is a fictional molehill that needs to be made into a mountain over there.

 

Instant level 80 and experience scrolls don't make the game easier, in my opinion, as the lower levels lacked difficulty. The various instant XP mechanics allow a veteran player to more quickly move into the higher difficulty portions of the game. In the case of a new player those scrolls and such can actually increase the difficulty by moving him into content for which he is not yet sufficiently prepared.

 

Opinions are not irrefutable facts.

[Eidolonemesis.5640]

> @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > @"Eidolonemesis.5640" said:

> > > @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > > > @"Eidolonemesis.5640" said:

> > > > > @"Taygus.4571" said:

> > > > > It's the inifity for the hero points too.

> > > >

> > > > Pardon my late reply. Redoable Hearts is one thing, yet redoable Hero Points is a complete joke. It undermines all other Hero Points if all you have to do is farm one or two maps for all your Hero Points (except areas in Central Tyria that give only 1 Hero Point). Heck, at this point, just give us free Hero Points to unlock all our Traits by default, because why not? Redoable Hero Points makes the game even easier than it already was. Oh, and let's backtrack to the days like in GW1 where level 20 was the level cap, because why not?! Insta-level 80 items, along with oodles of easily acquired experience scrolls, makes the game easier than it already was. Such bright ideas! What's next to improve the game to such a groundbreaking degree? I can't wait to see!

> > >

> > >

> > > Have you actually looked into the repeatable HP? They only grant a hero point the first time. Other rewards are given for subsequent completion.

> >

> > Correction. Hero Points in any of the new maps now grant 10 Hero Points each upon the first completion, ever since HoT. Now, as for subsequent rewards for completing the Hero Points again? No, I have not touched any of the Hero Points in any of the new maps for reason being every character I've leveled to 80 has their Traits completed.

> >

> > With that being said in mind, in the event the new redoable Hero Points do *not* grant players an additional 10 Hero Points, then I withdraw my ridicule against the new Hero Points. And as for the rest of what I said regarding the direction the game is going and has been going? Irrefutable facts are irrefutable facts, unless somebody wants to argue against them because they like everything easy mode, or... because they like to stir the pot for thrills.

>

> So, your ridicule of a system that doesn't exist stands? Right... Oh look, there is a fictional molehill that needs to be made into a mountain over there.

>

> Instant level 80 and experience scrolls don't make the game easier, in my opinion, as the lower levels lacked difficulty. The various instant XP mechanics allow a veteran player to more quickly move into the higher difficulty portions of the game. In the case of a new player those scrolls and such can actually increase the difficulty by moving him into content for which he is not yet sufficiently prepared.

>

> Opinions are not irrefutable facts.

 

I have already stated in that comment (edited before your reply) that I withdrew my ridicule for said reasons. I did not touch any of the new redoable Hero Points because I did not feel the need to when all my characters are leveled 80 and have all their Traits, unlocked. However, now that I know they are **1.** repeateable and **2.** offer additional rewards (other than 10 more Hero Points again and again, as I initially thought), I will consider doing them.

 

Now, far as everything else I said in that comment, yes, it still remains, and as far your counterargument goes, it dumbs down to a very desperate attempt equivalent to trying to disprove 1 + 1 = 2, yet no matter how hard you try to argue 1 + 1 = 3 instead (because you want to stir the pot here), you are going to be wrong again and again. You are the perfect example of someone who will argue for the sake of arguing, no matter how ridiculous your rhyme and reason.

 

Furthermore, a new player, when auto-leveled to 80 using experience items, does *not* magically gain access to all end-game areas/content. They are still stuck in the beginning, low-level areas. Therefore, no increased difficulty is magically experienced for a new player upon using an insta-level 80 item, unless they purposely use a Portal to Friend to force themselves into end-game areas/content, and even then a new player (if they have a brain in their head) will know that is unwise to do without first acquiring the necessary gear and at least a little background knowledge regarding the mechanics of certain skills, combos, and fields.

 

As for veteran players using the insta-level 80 items to level up quicker, yea, that may seem great, yet it still does *not* derail the fact using such items make the game too easy, whether a veteran players has been through the game 100 times or not. The fact that the 'incentive' to use such items is there (because they are so easily available) simply undermines the point of leveling a character at all in the first place, to the point we may as well be given level 80 characters from the beginning. That's my point.

 

It's kind of like giving a dog table food; once they learn your food is better than their processed garbage (and believe me, they taste the difference), they're going to want the table food, just like players and their ridiculous insta-80 level items, because who wants to level the harder way? Not very many players.

 

What other irrefutable facts will you try to disprove? Is having vendors locked again and again after Hearts reset not veered more toward 'grind' than 'replayability'? I say it is indeed veered toward grind. Fact or fiction? True of false? I call that a fact, and do some unchanging things not remain fact by default? What say you? Is the monitor in front of your face not for a fact sitting on either your lap, your floor, your bed, or your desk? Is the end of Shakespeare's Sonnet 116 not true, that he *did* indeed pen those words, whether or not you agree or disagree with his viewpoint on Love? I'm listening.

 

Do you even know the difference between 'grind' and 'replayability'? I doubt it, so let me break it down: Grind = tedious, second-job-like work you do over and over again, either to acquire something or to unlock something over again = no fun = drives players away. Replayability = *not* having to do the same thing(s) over and over again like a second job to acquire what you want, or to unlock what you already unlocked again = something that is genuinely fun = keeps players playing.

 

Is that just said not a fact, either? If not, then please enlighten us all regarding what defines a surefire fact in GW2. Better, describe to us all what defines an irrefutable fact, other than calling me a jerk and believing it to be absolutely true, when in fact I am a laid-back man who simply likes to battle with words by utilizing common sense in conjunction with analogies.

 

**P.S.** I am going to sleep now, but I look forward to your response later today.