What "Raid locked" means.

[narcx.3570]

Look at it like this... There's NOTHING stopping you from making your own group and raiding, just like WvW and PvP. The door is only locked by your unwillingness to try it...

 

Wanting to group with the "Shady guy" asking you for 200 LI's is the equivalent of you expecting to queue ranked PvP and play with the top 250 players on your first day. It wouldn't even be fun for you and you'd either be holding the rest of the people back or getting blatantly carried. If you do just want to get carried through content, I guess that's fine, but it's hard to find any sympathy for that.

[maxwelgm.4315]

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > @"Amineo.8951" said:

> > Raids were a mistake (and I have Legendary Armor + 200LI+), they should've sticked to making dungeons -> Less tedious to find groups, easier to make, more variety (Thief was meta back in the day), better stories, open for everyone, daily rewards. I know that elitism was a thing back then but there was no DPS check and it's way easier to gather 5 people than 10.

> >

> > Nowadays I just log to get the weekly raid rewards and sometimes daily fractals but I'm in the process to stop playing and get back when the next LS Episode comes out.

>

> So why force yourself to play content you do not enjoy?

>

> This seems more a you issue than an issue with raids. Also raids did not replace dungeons, fractals did.

>

> The way I see it: raids, even if you do not enjoy them as you claim, are the only thing that make you stick with the game currently. As such they sort of fulfill their purpose wouldn't you say?

 

I'm not sure if this is where he's getting at, but the group aspect for raids is very different from that of dungeons/fractals, even though all of that is supposedly thrown together into the "endgame content" bin. In-game tools for organizing and guild recruiting for raids are lacking which is a fair criticism to hit up to Anet even if the player solution is easy (discord groups and such). The bosses are so well designed and cool to face but sometimes it leaves that bitter taste of "I spent an hour preparing and 15 minutes actually doing the cool thing (playing)". At least this is what I think he hints at: raids are cool in themselves, but their design is still rough around the edges, anet pls.

[JVJD.4912]

Its the catch-22 phrase

"You need experience to join but in-order to get experience you need to join"

Then comes the make your own group solution - "Don't like Trump's administration you be the president"

 

Most ppl just don't bother anymore and there the division war begins

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"JVJD.4912" said:

> Its the catch-22 phrase

> "You need experience to join but in-order to get experience you need to join"

> Then comes the make your own group solution - "Don't like Trump's administration you be the president"

>

> Most ppl just don't bother anymore and there the division war begins

 

Except for the groups, guilds, communities and single commanders who run training runs, practice runs, low LI requirement runs etc.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > @"JVJD.4912" said:

> > Its the catch-22 phrase

> > "You need experience to join but in-order to get experience you need to join"

> > Then comes the make your own group solution - "Don't like Trump's administration you be the president"

> >

> > Most ppl just don't bother anymore and there the division war begins

>

> Except for the groups, guilds, communities and single commanders who run training runs, practice runs, low LI requirement runs etc.

That may be enough for a small number of indicidual players, but has a limited impact on the community as a whole. Also, the situation is a bit more complicated and not as rosy as you try to paint it, and those commanders, groups, guilds and communities often end up not as open as you imply (or have other problems associated with them).

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > @"JVJD.4912" said:

> > > Its the catch-22 phrase

> > > "You need experience to join but in-order to get experience you need to join"

> > > Then comes the make your own group solution - "Don't like Trump's administration you be the president"

> > >

> > > Most ppl just don't bother anymore and there the division war begins

> >

> > Except for the groups, guilds, communities and single commanders who run training runs, practice runs, low LI requirement runs etc.

> That may be enough for a small number of indicidual players, but has a limited impact on the community as a whole. Also, the situation is a bit more complicated and not as rosy as you try to paint it, and those commanders, groups, guilds and communities often end up not as open as you imply (or have other problems associated with them).

 

Oh I'm sure there is issues especially when a group of inexperienced players are grouped up. Almost like how experienced raiders have to spend ages on new wings to learn mechanics.

 

I just dislike the constant argument that there is absolutely no way to join raids unless you are experienced. Dozens of people have managed over the last almost 2 years. I don't understand why people now are unique special snowflakes which can't manage what thousands of others have managed before them.

 

As far as rosy, I wouldn't know. I run regular training runs and even when offering people in game to take them along (and on the forums) the resonance has been very low. Most people I've just accepted are unwilling to actually join a training run even when it's being spoon fed to them. Then again, that's my subjective experience on the matter.

 

The same goes for recruitment and advertising threads on the forums. Those are ghost towns most of the time. That just signals the following things to me:

- people are not genuinely interested in actually joining raids

- are incapable to find solution for their problems on the most basic level

- are just using the inaccessibility argument as coverup a demand easier raids and change so they can get their loot

 

2 of those things I have no problem with (the first 2). The third one I find dishonest.

[CrustyBot.3564]

Several posts have pointed out training servers in EU and NA where there are hundreds if not thousands of community members happy to teach or learn raids together. Yet each of these posts have been ignored. Accessibility issues with raids exist, content issues do not. The problem with accessibility is the lack of in game connectivity between people and groups in meaningful fashion. However, viable workarounds that aid hundreds of learners and beginners have been linked multiple times in this thread yet are ignored for the same tired arguments.

 

Are people just unwilling to take basic initiative and ask for help, to sign up for planned runs or interact with peers beyond joining an lfg listing and expecting to one shot bosses? If so, then the nature of raids would need to drastically change in order to accommodate such people and said changes would likely turn GW2 into a raid focused game instead of an open world pve focused one.

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"CrustyBot.3564" said:

> Several posts have pointed out training servers in EU and NA where there are hundreds if not thousands of community members happy to teach or learn raids together. Yet each of these posts have been ignored. Accessibility issues with raids exist, content issues do not. The problem with accessibility is the lack of in game connectivity between people and groups in meaningful fashion. However, viable workarounds that aid hundreds of learners and beginners have been linked multiple times in this thread yet are ignored for the same tired arguments.

>

> Are people just unwilling to take basic initiative and ask for help, to sign up for planned runs or interact with peers beyond joining an lfg listing and expecting to one shot bosses? If so, then the nature of raids would need to drastically change in order to accommodate such people and said changes would likely turn GW2 into a raid focused game instead of an open world pve focused one.

 

This right here. Thank you.

[maxwelgm.4315]

> @"CrustyBot.3564" said:

> Several posts have pointed out training servers in EU and NA where there are hundreds if not thousands of community members happy to teach or learn raids together. Yet each of these posts have been ignored. Accessibility issues with raids exist, content issues do not. The problem with accessibility is the lack of in game connectivity between people and groups in meaningful fashion. However, viable workarounds that aid hundreds of learners and beginners have been linked multiple times in this thread yet are ignored for the same tired arguments.

>

> Are people just unwilling to take basic initiative and ask for help, to sign up for planned runs or interact with peers beyond joining an lfg listing and expecting to one shot bosses? If so, then the nature of raids would need to drastically change in order to accommodate such people and said changes would likely turn GW2 into a raid focused game instead of an open world pve focused one.

 

They definitely are unwilling, and it's not even veiled criticism in hope to get free rewards: the bosses are perfect but the group aspect sucks because it involves too much waiting. It is a problem that also involves the community though; there are a lot of training runs to teach from the ground up for example, and they are mostly out there in discord and training guilds only for the people who actively look for it (few players will "stumble" upon a raid unlike, say, a curious player going into the fractal LFG). Groups in LFG on the other hand, in my own experience, might also take hours to fill if they fill, and people are fast to leave. Those who truly want to invest in raiding are going to manage and eventually get their experience, though training runs such as "know mechanics silent practice" that we can plug'n'play in a certain sense are also lacking. These invested players obviously don't need any more help from Anet as far as raid accessibility goes, but then again Anet would never even consider accessibility to be an issue if they only cared for players who worked around their own bad in-game tools. GW2 can be an open world PvE focused game while still having the proper tools AND more diversity of guild organized content. It just doesn't because of their development priorities.

 

With all that said, it's still fair criticism to Anet that in-game tools for organizing, recruiting and even other non-raid guild content are severely lacking and utterly ignored. The burden is on Anet to provide the best environment possible for groups to organize, regardless of how easy it is to work around this issue (yes I can simply click and drag a discord link to my browser but It's still fair for me to complain Anet couldn't have something just as simple in-game), and they failed in most accounts, what with the rushed introduction of LFM, they didn't expect people to pug raids like _they do to every single other piece of content??_. It's preaching to the choir to claim that there are dozens of workarounds outside of the game in order to organize raids, the only question is: do we want players who exclusively want to organize in-game to be part of the raid population? I don't know the answer as this wasn't a rhetorical question.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> The same goes for recruitment and advertising threads on the forums. Those are ghost towns most of the time. That just signals the following things to me:

> - people are not genuinely interested in actually joining raids

> - are incapable to find solution for their problems on the most basic level

> - are just using the inaccessibility argument as coverup a demand easier raids and change so they can get their loot

>

It's actually much, much simpler. Barring out-of-game connections, players like (and tend to) to group with other players that are similar to them. Almost all the ways of getting into raids however require the complaining players to heavily interact with players that see the game in a completely different way than them. They avoid those guilds and communities, because they wouldn't have felt good in them - those are not their kinds of a crowd.

 

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > The same goes for recruitment and advertising threads on the forums. Those are ghost towns most of the time. That just signals the following things to me:

> > - people are not genuinely interested in actually joining raids

> > - are incapable to find solution for their problems on the most basic level

> > - are just using the inaccessibility argument as coverup a demand easier raids and change so they can get their loot

> >

> It's actually much, much simpler. Barring out-of-game connections, players like (and tend to) to group with other players that are similar to them. Almost all the ways of getting into raids however require the complaining players to heavily interact with players that see the game in a completely different way than them. They avoid those guilds and communities, because they wouldn't have felt good in them - those are not their kinds of a crowd.

>

 

Which is already a flaw in its self in an MMO...

[Tyson.5160]

> @"CrustyBot.3564" said:

> Raids were not designed to be puggable, and grouping up in pure LFGs is not the intended method of completing, let alone learning raids. The fact that they are eminently puggable only means that they are not nearly as difficult as the reputation suggests. However, it doesn't at all mean that it is the ideal way to engage the content. If you want to learn raids, it is advisable to join a guild that offers progression (or training), or join a discord community that exclusively focuses on raid training. There's the Raid Training Initiative for EU players, and the Raider's Inn for NA players. And I know there are others out there that exist too.

>

> https://discord.gg/7jH3HAD: RTI

> https://discord.gg/raQE5fZ: Raider's Inn

>

> I feel like the in-game LFG tools for connecting players to groups beyond single instance events (specifically guild recruitment) is very lacking, and that's where accessibility issues should be focused on. Better ways to connect people with shared interests in how to complete content and treat one another. The actual content and it's design is mostly fine.

 

If they were meant to be puggable they should have attached them to Guild Missions.

 

Unfortunately, I can only pug raids as most guilds aren’t active while I’m on. I also understand people don’t have 8 hours a day to plug into a raid, which is fine, maybe they get two or three hours. I find that I spend a lot of my time waiting to have fun then having fun. So if ANET developed better tools for getting people together for raids, I would be happy.

 

[Vulf.3098]

> @"Tyson.5160" said:

> So if ANET developed better tools for getting people together for raids, I would be happy.

>

 

This is something they said that they wanted to do in one of the very first raid interviews around the time raids came out. Also in that same interview they said that raids are not for everybody of all skill levels.

 

My guess to this will be at some point we will get an LFG that lets group leaders refine options better than just "Looking for dps etc..." in a description. Same goes for a single player looking for a group to join.

 

 

 

[Talindra.4958]

guys. raid is puggable. you just need to thicken your skin, wear a shield and armor and ignore the bad attitude.. you can survive pug. actually pug is easier to get raid done imo.

if you do not have raid exp, you need to at least exp the countless wipes.. for weeks and weeks. it is what most of us experienced in the early days of raids.

[JVJD.4912]

 

> @"Vulf.3098" said:

> > @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > So if ANET developed better tools for getting people together for raids, I would be happy.

> >

>

> This is something they said that they wanted to do in one of the very first raid interviews around the time raids came out. Also in that same interview they said that raids are not for everybody of all skill levels.

>

> My guess to this will be at some point we will get an LFG that lets group leaders refine options better than just "Looking for dps etc..." in a description. Same goes for a single player looking for a group to join.

>

>

>

 

As more raids are added in to the the game it would make sense, when they add like for eg: the 50 th raid instance, thats like 50 total raids in gw2 . You are going to struggle badly to find groups to do raids that aren't current

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"JVJD.4912" said:

>

> > @"Vulf.3098" said:

> > > @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > > So if ANET developed better tools for getting people together for raids, I would be happy.

> > >

> >

> > This is something they said that they wanted to do in one of the very first raid interviews around the time raids came out. Also in that same interview they said that raids are not for everybody of all skill levels.

> >

> > My guess to this will be at some point we will get an LFG that lets group leaders refine options better than just "Looking for dps etc..." in a description. Same goes for a single player looking for a group to join.

> >

> >

> >

>

> As more raids are added in to the the game it would make sense, when they add like for eg: the 50 th raid instance, thats like 50 total raids in gw2 . You are going to struggle badly to find groups to do raids that aren't current

 

With the current release cycle I doubt we will get any where near 50 raids. At best case 2 raids per year we'll still be sub 10 raid wings before the next expansion hits (again assuming a 1.5-2 year release window between expansions).

 

By then it will slowly become apparent which direction arenanet wants to take GW2 and if GW3 is going to happen etc.

 

I do agree though that a better LFG/LFM is needed and have said so in the past already. I doubt it will fix a lot of the issues for people who are currently struggling to find access to raids. Personally I think the factors preventing many are of a different nature than grouping.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > The same goes for recruitment and advertising threads on the forums. Those are ghost towns most of the time. That just signals the following things to me:

> > > - people are not genuinely interested in actually joining raids

> > > - are incapable to find solution for their problems on the most basic level

> > > - are just using the inaccessibility argument as coverup a demand easier raids and change so they can get their loot

> > >

> > It's actually much, much simpler. Barring out-of-game connections, players like (and tend to) to group with other players that are similar to them. Almost all the ways of getting into raids however require the complaining players to heavily interact with players that see the game in a completely different way than them. They avoid those guilds and communities, because they wouldn't have felt good in them - those are not their kinds of a crowd.

> >

>

> Which is already a flaw in its self in an MMO...

Not really. It's not about solo playing. It's about playing with people that are similar to you. Seriously, it's not like Raiders are any different in this.

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > > The same goes for recruitment and advertising threads on the forums. Those are ghost towns most of the time. That just signals the following things to me:

> > > > - people are not genuinely interested in actually joining raids

> > > > - are incapable to find solution for their problems on the most basic level

> > > > - are just using the inaccessibility argument as coverup a demand easier raids and change so they can get their loot

> > > >

> > > It's actually much, much simpler. Barring out-of-game connections, players like (and tend to) to group with other players that are similar to them. Almost all the ways of getting into raids however require the complaining players to heavily interact with players that see the game in a completely different way than them. They avoid those guilds and communities, because they wouldn't have felt good in them - those are not their kinds of a crowd.

> > >

> >

> > Which is already a flaw in its self in an MMO...

> Not really. It's not about solo playing. It's about playing with people that are similar to you. Seriously, it's not like Raiders are any different in this.

 

I keep getting this weird "raiders are like this, raiders are like that". I'm in multiple guilds filled with a multitude of different people. Some of them raid hardcore, some raid casually, some don't raid at all. I get along fine with all of them. There is a ton of casual raiding communities in this game. Not every raider is the same, and I myself act differently depending on with who I'm playing. I'll be a lot more forgiving and supportive of people in practice raids up to the point of retrying a boss for over 1-2 hours if need be. The situation is way different when running 500+ LI all wing clear groups though.

 

You make it sound as though the speed clear max efficiency part of the raiding community is the only raiders around. That is certainly not the case. As such I'm not buying into the entire straw man of:"raiders are different than other players."

 

Which brings me back to my original point: to clear raiding content in this game you need teamwork, cooperation and practice. If people are unwilling to bring these qualities because they'd rather solo their way through this MMO, then I stand by my assessment that this is not the game type for them (see, I can generalize too).

[Khanh.8159]

Oh well, some part of this is true but most are not. I started raiding 3 weeks ago after 2 years Off GW2. Join PUG Eskort, dont know shit but know my Druid and can read what Com said. We failed a few times but done it without me. So no LI for me, sad sad. Next eskort follow with first LI. And now in the middle of 3. weeks 23 LI and counting. Imo if you are newb, you need to have/do following things:

1. Be good at some thing, I mean really good. That mean Meta Build and Rotation. Practice first. Im good at ranger so :D.

2. Watch videos, read guide, A LOT, AGAIN and AGAIN. Know what you should do with your Job. You should be able to react to mechs in your first fight as a veteran. I did it and no one complain about me, rather about the other 100 LI guys.

3. Just join some low LI Req Com, abou 25 to 100. Some Com are nice and let you stay. If its not your fault that they fail, they kick other and you stay. Eventually they will beat it (or not) and you will get your LI or not, but you cant really complain. Shit happens.

4. Dont care if they kick you. Join the next squad.

5. Join a PuG guild. They are really friendly. Since Im really good at what Im doing, even as noob raider xD. And our run failed because of other faults and I always silently rage a little bit and understand the LI Req but you have to live with it.

6. Ah and last BE PATIENT. Waste 3 hours of times for nothing is normal. Live with it. Like the other guys here already said, the other 9 players waste their time too. You are not a special one ;). I have seen a lot of 100, 200 LI squad wasted 1 hours or more on Gorse, Sab. Which are really easy imo.

 

The attitude "Im good but no one wanna play with me" sucks :D.

[Eramonster.2718]

Imo you knocked on the wrong door on your first encounter, not your fault just bad luck, move on and try another. Its a learning curve for players wanting to start raid to know where to look, try forming your own with friends etc if that's not possible look for guilds that does raid training(does not requires you to join the guild but probably will be their selling point to you and its possible to get kills in training groups)

 

Was helping a friend started during PoF. Got me dumbstrucked he was rejected for not being fully asc geared for Spirit Vale in LFG. Clearly impossible for a fresh account to be decked out asc. Not enough gold, leveling crafting, time gated materials and locked living stories! It was then I realized how grindish and boring the game can be and not exactly how I intended to introduced the game.(non stop Ist*cough cough*stan for weeks)

 

 

[Eramonster.2718]

Fine to place standard for LFG to a certain extend(no blue/greens) but I dont think everyone need to be fully asc for most bosses (depending on the squad capabilities) and raising the standard to secure a kill will only backfires in the long run by building a wall between veteran and new players intend to start raid. When the inner circle gets smaller as veterans/regulars lose interest or stop after they got what they wanted, while possible replacements is scarce as they given up trying raid cause having a hard time joining groups.

 

Be understanding when wipes happen if a regular is replaced. I dont think its fair to point fingers by putting standard and expectations of a regular on the replacement, especially if its a PuG. Was in a PuG group doing Gorse long ago the tank was doing updraft, while half the squad was not because it wasn't made clear before it started thus wiped. Still makes me giggle thinking back the panic in discord, wouldn't be now if the squad leader is someone who kicked the tank for "screwing up". Just need to get into the right group and mentality to enjoy stuff tbh.

[Henry.5713]

> @"Eramonster.2718" said:

> Imo you knocked on the wrong door on your first encounter, not your fault just bad luck, move on and try another. Its a learning curve for players wanting to start raid to know where to look, try forming your own with friends etc if that's not possible look for guilds that does raid training(does not requires you to join the guild but probably will be their selling point to you and its possible to get kills in training groups)

>

> Was helping a friend started during PoF. Got me dumbstrucked he was rejected for not being fully asc geared for Spirit Vale in LFG. Clearly impossible for a fresh account to be decked out asc. Not enough gold, leveling crafting, time gated materials and locked living stories! It was then I realized how grindish and boring the game can be and not exactly how I intended to introduced the game.(non stop Ist*cough cough*stan for weeks)

>

>

 

It is true that ascended gear is not exactly required to finish any of the encounters. That is, it is in a perfect world where you are playing with experienced and skilled players. You have to expect the worst of "pugs" and most commanders prefer to go rather safe than sorry.

 

There is a huge amount of content in Guild Wars 2, both old and new content (PoF). Ascended gear takes some time but is hardly anything too crazy. Nobody forces you to grind the newest "max profit META" only. New players will have their first set of ascended before they know it if they actually play and enjoy this game unless you force them (or they force themselves) to rush towards raids. A questionable approach to begin with if you consider the nature of this game and the small significance raids actually play here. The stuff that makes this game unique happens outside of the raids.

Don't get me wrong, I'd tell anyone to at least try raids once. They can be great fun and you'll meet many players through them. I'd certainly make sure to tell my friends that it is content that is meant to be played at a later time and certainly not right away while they haven't even earned their PvE spurs, however. The lack of ascended gear, even if sometimes wrong, is a good indication that they have yet to do just that.

[Eramonster.2718]

Grinding was for unlocking previous LS.Did a few dungeons for cosmetic purpose, slight WvW,ran a couple world bosses but drop that after a while(wait time kinda a letdown in party) same goes for PvP. Fractal and cherry picking easy raids w1 and escorts etc. Was the plan till wintersday patch.

[lokh.2695]

- There are always training runs or ppl recruiting to get into raiding on the lfg.

- No one asks for your Li if you're opening the group, but ppl will see if you know what your doing or not ;)

- Not everyone asks for 200Li these days, yes there are those groups, but there are also groups for far less if any Li.

- No one forces you to raid, nothing in the raid is required anywhere in the game(points to signature).

 

I know how you feel, it was the same for me when I startet. I had the exact same thoughts as you had "well how should I get into raiding if noone wants to let me on their team?!" but in the end I connected to ppl who had maybe 50Li at the time and were running training runs. Some players had more experience, others like myself had none(anyone starts somewhere). After a while we grew as a group and continued to raid and learn. Now 9 months later I have my legendary armor and about 100Li spare. I look forward to experiencing the new wing with the players in my group. We are getting better week by week and are improving on strategies and setups as we go and as ANet "fixes" their game.

If you want to raid, go out and find a group that does trainings. Be sure that there are a few somewhat experienced leads and that you like the community. Make sure that you want to sink time into raids, that's important, you will want to train with your characters at the dps golem and an evening out raiding is not like your 8min dungeon run. When we raid we usually go about it for approx 2 hours in the evening, this is how far our concentration takes us.

I've seen many ppl who "want to raid" but don't want to play good builds or put the time/effort into learning a class/encounter or gearing up. Those ppl don't want to raid, they want the skins, the loot the glory(points to signature again). Think about if you want to raid or if you just want the shiny. Then think about if the shiny is worth all the hassle, because there's no easy way through this. It will either cost you effort, which includes finding groups or you'll have to buy your kills which will also cost you time/gold/money.

Anyway, hope you'll find a group that suits you and that you find out for yourself wether raiding is for you or not.

[Umbramare.9156]

>Man: You could try to find 9 other people like you and smash the door in.

>Me: And this works?

>Man: Never seen it work, but many tried it.

 

sounds to me like you dont want to put in effort and learn but instead leech off experienced players who will carry you.