New Matchmaker on Unranked

[Red Haired Savage.5430]

You guys should really pick better names for your stuff. Things like this can get stuck in your head. :lol:

 

[Cal Cohen.3527]

We collected some data from matches with the new matchmaker. I also grabbed the match data from the same chunk of time last week (under the old matchmaker) to compare to. Below are a few comparisons that I thought were interesting. I also did the same comparisons on the subset of data in which at least one of the teams had an average rating of 1500 or above. All of the data is from unranked matches. The data looks good, and we'll likely be turning the new matchmaker on in ranked sometime next week and for the seasons moving forward. We'll continue to keep an eye on things but I thought I'd share some of the data for those who find it interesting.

 

**Overall**

Old

* Average rating difference between teams: 37.29

* Average standard deviation difference between teams: 35.04

* Percent of games with average rating difference over 50: 24.5%

 

New

* Average rating difference between teams: 18.02

* Average standard deviation difference between teams: 23.9

* Percent of games with average rating difference over 50: 4.7%

 

 

 

**Matches where at least one team has average rating >=1500**

Old

* Average rating difference between teams: 56.87

* Average standard deviation difference between teams: 37.72

* Percent of games with average rating difference over 50: 41.3%

 

New

* Average rating difference between teams: 23.67

* Average standard deviation difference between teams: 23.28

* Percent of games with average rating difference over 50: 8.8%

[HealAlNite.9658]

So if I dont want thieves in my team because they are useless I just queue as thief and then rerol to my main class. Good job anet for making a exploitable matchmaker.

 

[Shirlias.8104]

> @"HealAlNite.9658" said:

> So if I dont want thieves in my team because they are useless I just queue as thief and then rerol to my main class. Good job anet for making a exploitable matchmaker.

>

 

That could give them the chance to definitely disable the sawp feature.

I really don't know why is it allowed to swap character with the current system.

 

I know that SPvP community is not big enough to have separated queues, but even so i am sure it would be simple to grant

 

* 1x class limit per team

* no character swap before the game starts

 

 

[Kraitan.8476]

Have to say soloQ >1600 rating matchmaking really did improve for me last season, nice to see some numbers with it^^

[Urud.4925]

I had a good series a won matches until last month (more than 50%), then I've been paired with players that were clearly of another level and the team where I played never won. I really had the feeling that you modified something in the matchmaking (hence, a thread about it).

Recently it seems that I have a rate of 50% (though I only play once per day usually, so not a big data sample). I'm always talking about unranked. Nice to see that you keep improving the game and provide info and data on the forum. Keep doing it!

[Arheundel.6451]

Games are highly unbalanced......I have been asking for years to know my exact MMR....everything doesn't make sense it's like the game rates me at some WTS champion rating for 2k+ or something and create teams based on my average, my games are completely onesided and always require me to hold the weight for 2-3 people

[Arheundel.6451]

> @"Cal Cohen.3527" said:

> We collected some data from matches with the new matchmaker. I also grabbed the match data from the same chunk of time last week (under the old matchmaker) to compare to. Below are a few comparisons that I thought were interesting. I also did the same comparisons on the subset of data in which at least one of the teams had an average rating of 1500 or above. All of the data is from unranked matches. The data looks good, and we'll likely be turning the new matchmaker on in ranked sometime next week and for the seasons moving forward. We'll continue to keep an eye on things but I thought I'd share some of the data for those who find it interesting.

>

> **Overall**

> Old

> * Average rating difference between teams: 37.29

> * Average standard deviation difference between teams: 35.04

> * Percent of games with average rating difference over 50: 24.5%

>

> New

> * Average rating difference between teams: 18.02

> * Average standard deviation difference between teams: 23.9

> * Percent of games with average rating difference over 50: 4.7%

>

>

>

> **Matches where at least one team has average rating >=1500**

> Old

> * Average rating difference between teams: 56.87

> * Average standard deviation difference between teams: 37.72

> * Percent of games with average rating difference over 50: 41.3%

>

> New

> * Average rating difference between teams: 23.67

> * Average standard deviation difference between teams: 23.28

> * Percent of games with average rating difference over 50: 8.8%

 

I honestly dunno where you're getting these stats, my games are getting like 500 to 100 or 500 to 50 with me doing the pts...**constantly** ...your nw MMR not working at all

[Despond.2174]

It sounds good because last season even near plat I had teams that would stack home @ start, jump into a +1 +2s for no reason, fight off node, very basic and entry level stuff, class recognition adn awareness not there. I know no system is flawless but there shouldn't be such a massive gap in experience/abilities. I think also the fact there's issues with duo vs solo affects games and how they are either stomps or near instant losses. Also a sidenote, the balancing, one team gets a scourge+FB and you get like dbl thief? There's a such large discrepancy in balance that you have an uphill battle or win via someone dcing. Ideally you'd like 50/50 at worst, or players a bit worse, a bit better or the same as you.

 

Will look forward to see how it changes ranked next season, but I think there's serious build balancing that needs to be done for POF specs. I don't know, maybe bring 5man queue back, or just remove duo queue and have everyone solo. So many games are decided based on who has 1-2 duo queuers which in-turn usually has a meta group vs a non-meta group; then you're already at a massive disadvantage before the game even starts.

[HealAlNite.9658]

> @"Shirlias.8104" said:

> > @"HealAlNite.9658" said:

> > So if I dont want thieves in my team because they are useless I just queue as thief and then rerol to my main class. Good job anet for making a exploitable matchmaker.

> >

>

> That could give them the chance to definitely disable the sawp feature.

> I really don't know why is it allowed to swap character with the current system.

>

> I know that SPvP community is not big enough to have separated queues, but even so i am sure it would be simple to grant

>

> * 1x class limit per team

> * no character swap before the game starts

>

>

Still exploitable

[Crinn.7864]

> @"Shirlias.8104" said:

> I know that SPvP community is not big enough to have separated queues, but even so i am sure it would be simple to grant

>

> * 1x class limit per team

> * no character swap before the game starts

>

 

So if I queue as a reaper I would be 100% guaranteeing that I won't have a Scourge on my team, while at the same time there would be a large chance of the enemy team having a Scourge. Which given that Scourge 100% hardcounters Reaper, I'd essentially be double handicapping myself.

 

no thanks

[rank eleven monk.9502]

> @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> I honestly dunno where you're getting these stats, my games are getting like 500 to 100 or 500 to 50 with me doing the pts...**constantly** ...your nw MMR not working at all

So what you are saying that your sample of 1 player (you) is more reliable than the sample of all matches including of all players, therefore the MMR is not working.

 

Riiiiiiiiiiiight.

[Toron.4856]

matchmaking still bad for me in unranked.

 

https://imgur.com/a/5kKTM

[BikeIsGone.8675]

So essentially the new system is better in terms of rating distribution in every way.

How does it affect Q time, especially for the >1500 rating brackets?

[Rufo.3716]

These results don't match my experiences. Several games were 4v5 with the team with 4 winning easily. Others were just lopsided with one team with much better players. If the numbers are correct this just proves how much win trading there actually is in this game. Yet, known win traders and other cheaters are allowed to keep playing every day with not even a slap on the wrist. Way to go Anet, let's keep the cheaters around and keep driving off all your top end streamers and other players.

[Aden.9306]

> @"Rufo.3716" said:

> These results don't match my experiences. Several games were 4v5 with the team with 4 winning easily. Others were just lopsided with one team with much better players. If the numbers are correct this just proves how much win trading there actually is in this game. Yet, known win traders and other cheaters are allowed to keep playing every day with not even a slap on the wrist. Way to go Anet, let's keep the cheaters around and keep driving off all your top end streamers and other players.

 

If the new mm is live and off season why would people win trade?

[Kunzaito.8169]

Small sample size and blah blah blah but I am so far not seeing any benefit from this. Games are consistently absolute rollovers (500-200 or less) with zero fun to be had. The last game I (a silver-ranked player) ended up in a game against a 5-man premade of tournament level players "tuning up" for the tourney. Lost 502-14. Between 5+ minute queue times and waiting for these garbage matches to end I wasted at least 45 minutes of gaming time which is not an unlimited commodity. Back to the drawing board, please.

[Delweyn.1309]

> @"rank eleven monk.9502" said:

> > @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > I honestly dunno where you're getting these stats, my games are getting like 500 to 100 or 500 to 50 with me doing the pts...**constantly** ...your nw MMR not working at all

> So what you are saying that your sample of 1 player (you) is more reliable than the sample of all matches including of all players, therefore the MMR is not working.

>

> Riiiiiiiiiiiight.

 

No he is not alone, and u know it :)

[Sombra.3246]

Hopefully this will give more balance to the teams in pvp. I am looking forward to the next season.

[Yukio blaster.9082]

 

After this new MMR i had some realy great games when the score flips from 200/100 to 300/500 or sometimes the games finishes 500/49* that's realy good. but some games are realy bad however the experience is better than before .

[Cal Cohen.3527]

I'll try to respond to some of the questions and concerns here.

 

This change did not affect queue times at all. The matchmaker still picks the players for the match in the same way, but there's now a second layer that re-evaluates the match to make sure the most even combination of players is chosen for each team.

 

Matchmaking isn't an absolute science. Given a set of matches that have a perfect rating distribution (say all 10 players are 1500 rating), they won't all have the same result. Some matches could be blowouts, some could be 500-499, and some will be in between. There are a ton of factors that play into the result of a match, many of which are not things the matcher has control over. Players are human, which means that they're inconsistent. A 1500 rated player doesn't always play at a 1500 level. Sometimes they're playing out of their mind and spike up to an 1800 level, or sometimes they're on tilt and drop to a 1200 level. These numbers are pretty arbitrary but I think it gets the idea across. Some players are better at certain aspects of the game and weaker at others. A match where they only encounter their strengths will allow them to perform better than their actual rating while a match where they run into their weaknesses will cause them to play worse. As others have mentioned some team compositions are stronger than others and can tip an otherwise balanced match in favor of one team.

 

Essentially our goal is to make the best matches possible based on rating, which should leave the outcome of the match up to the team that plays better. We want to avoid cases where a team is clearly favored and make the distributions as even as possible, and the new matcher is doing this pretty well as the data shows.

 

Unranked matches will always have some additional volatility as players are more likely to be trying out new builds or professions that they're unfamiliar with, and with larger roster sizes making it more difficult to make balanced teams. I'm pretty excited to see what impact the new matcher has on ranked next season as it should be operating under more ideal conditions, especially at higher rating.

[Yukio blaster.9082]

> @"Cal Cohen.3527" said:

> I'll try to respond to some of the questions and concerns here.

>

> This change did not affect queue times at all. The matchmaker still picks the players for the match in the same way, but there's now a second layer that re-evaluates the match to make sure the most even combination of players is chosen for each team.

>

> Matchmaking isn't an absolute science. Given a set of matches that have a perfect rating distribution (say all 10 players are 1500 rating), they won't all have the same result. Some matches could be blowouts, some could be 500-499, and some will be in between. There are a ton of factors that play into the result of a match, many of which are not things the matcher has control over. Players are human, which means that they're inconsistent. A 1500 rated player doesn't always play at a 1500 level. Sometimes they're playing out of their mind and spike up to an 1800 level, or sometimes they're on tilt and drop to a 1200 level. These numbers are pretty arbitrary but I think it gets the idea across. Some players are better at certain aspects of the game and weaker at others. A match where they only encounter their strengths will allow them to perform better than their actual rating while a match where they run into their weaknesses will cause them to play worse. As others have mentioned some team compositions are stronger than others and can tip an otherwise balanced match in favor of one team.

>

> Essentially our goal is to make the best matches possible based on rating, which should leave the outcome of the match up to the team that plays better. We want to avoid cases where a team is clearly favored and make the distributions as even as possible, and the new matcher is doing this pretty well as the data shows.

>

> Unranked matches will always have some additional volatility as players are more likely to be trying out new builds or professions that they're unfamiliar with, and with larger roster sizes making it more difficult to make balanced teams. I'm pretty excited to see what impact the new matcher has on ranked next season as it should be operating under more ideal conditions, especially at higher rating.

 

This is nice but i have some concerns :

** Do the MMR consider the meta builds or not! **

I asked that because in some games the MMR ended the games before they started i will list some examples that i encountered in-game Regardless of the similarities between rating and classes:

* Support firebrand VS core guardian (one team has a support and a point holder the other one does not).

* 2 thiefs VS 2 holosmith (2 holosmiths are highly Favorited in this game due the high AOE dps and CC's and they can hold points when the thief's can't ).

* SD thief or DP thief VS deadeye thief (one team has a roamer that can cap and decap fast and +1 often when the other team has a slow sniper ) .

* 2 scourges VS core necro and reaper (this is an afk game mostly after the first team fight, the faith of the game is sealed).

* Bunker druid VS core ranger or soulbeast (a point holder that can keep points and survive a +1 for long time is highly favourable to win the game).

# What i suggest:

 

## 1. bunkers :

Consider the amulets and the runes used especially the AMULETS if a team is using magi amulet the other team should have the same amulet or something closer like marshal or munder and a bunker should face another bunker the class doesn't matter like a bunker druid can face a bunker firebrand.

 

## 2. DPS builds:

In DPS build considering the AMULETS isn't enough for example the role of SD or DP thief is totally different than a deadeye sniper thief and they both use marauder or berserker Amulet . what i suggest here is to much roles and a deadeye thief should face a DPS ranger cos they both use range weapon for example.

Those are just some examples and if i had to talk about every combination possible that would take a lot of time.

 

I hope this can help and i hope the MMR get better.

one last suggestion is to give the players the possibility to chose there role in game especially in 1500+ (in gold 2 and bellow i don't think it worth it ) and the MMR should consider that.

 

 

 

 

[Rennie.6750]

> @"Cal Cohen.3527" said:

> I'll try to respond to some of the questions and concerns here.

>

> This change did not affect queue times at all. The matchmaker still picks the players for the match in the same way, but there's now a second layer that re-evaluates the match to make sure the most even combination of players is chosen for each team.

>

> Matchmaking isn't an absolute science. Given a set of matches that have a perfect rating distribution (say all 10 players are 1500 rating), they won't all have the same result. Some matches could be blowouts, some could be 500-499, and some will be in between. There are a ton of factors that play into the result of a match, many of which are not things the matcher has control over. Players are human, which means that they're inconsistent. A 1500 rated player doesn't always play at a 1500 level. Sometimes they're playing out of their mind and spike up to an 1800 level, or sometimes they're on tilt and drop to a 1200 level. These numbers are pretty arbitrary but I think it gets the idea across. Some players are better at certain aspects of the game and weaker at others. A match where they only encounter their strengths will allow them to perform better than their actual rating while a match where they run into their weaknesses will cause them to play worse. As others have mentioned some team compositions are stronger than others and can tip an otherwise balanced match in favor of one team.

>

> Essentially our goal is to make the best matches possible based on rating, which should leave the outcome of the match up to the team that plays better. We want to avoid cases where a team is clearly favored and make the distributions as even as possible, and the new matcher is doing this pretty well as the data shows.

>

> Unranked matches will always have some additional volatility as players are more likely to be trying out new builds or professions that they're unfamiliar with, and with larger roster sizes making it more difficult to make balanced teams. I'm pretty excited to see what impact the new matcher has on ranked next season as it should be operating under more ideal conditions, especially at higher rating.

 

Let's not forget that if matches were perfectly balanced everyone would sit in gold tier with a 50% winrate. I think somehow armored warfare managed to do that when I was briefly playing it and droves of players left the game because nobody likes that. The truth is, some imbalance is fun and it lets some get impressive numbers when they know how to use that imbalance properly.

[Kunzaito.8169]

https://imgur.com/a/90I8N

 

Here's my last 15 matches. There was only 1 that was actually competitive and fun; those few 500-300 matches were never in doubt, but even if you count them 70% of these matches are absolute trash. The losing sucks, yeah, but it's worse when you can't even have fun doing it, you can only wait for it to end. I'm not trying a new build; I'm using the same meta DH and scrapper builds that I have done well with in the past several seasons.

 

Add to it that you keep getting matched up with the same people so the rancor grows as the losses pile up and it makes for a very toxic play experience.

 

Oh, and also, that "you won't get matched up with a class that's not also on your team" isn't working. I didn't pay attention every match but one time for sure the other side had 2 scourges vs. 0 for us (no one swapped) - the 502-22 Khylo loss. Another the other had 2 thieves vs. 0 for us (again, no swap) - 377-500 Foefire loss. And I know that people will joke that that is a good thing but in this case they were very good and kept us decapped and disoriented all match.

[Saiyan.1704]

> @"Cal Cohen.3527" said:

> I'll try to respond to some of the questions and concerns here.

>

> This change did not affect queue times at all. The matchmaker still picks the players for the match in the same way, but there's now a second layer that re-evaluates the match to make sure the most even combination of players is chosen for each team.

 

Nice! It's about time my dudes.