Why deadeye rifle is trash in pvp?

[Urejt.5648]

1. Weak value of traits and skills:

2. useless deadeye traits exept quickness trait

3. too expensive rifle skills

4. garbage elite stealth skill, but forced to use it on rifle (45 cooldown for 3 sec stealth? bliding powder is much better lel)

5. garbage rifle autoatack

[saerni.2584]

> @"Urejt.5648" said:

> 1. Weak value of traits and skills:

> 2. useless deadeye traits exept quickness trait

> 3. too expensive rifle skills

> 4. garbage elite stealth skill, but forced to use it on rifle (45 cooldown for 3 sec stealth? bliding powder is much better lel)

> 5. garbage rifle autoatack

 

1. Disagree

2. Disagree

3. Partially disagree, I think some tuning could happen here

4. Disagree entirely

5. No comment

 

As to pvp, the issue with rifle is that P/P can fulfill a similar ranged damage function with interrupt and blind potential. If your goal is spike damage you can always use a utility to stealth and set up a fresh target. Rifle is better for stealth overall, but thief can easily get stealth so it can be a bit of a wash whether rifle is better. The range is higher but sniping from 1500 is hard to do on smaller maps and obstructions make medium range damage preferable in most situations.

 

As to what makes Deadeye useful in pvp:

 

First, Shadow Meld breaks revealed and with two charges is better than BP by a good margin. The simple fact you can use the elite spot for it is also an advantage because it opens up a normal utility slot for other purposes.

 

Second, the boons Deadeye can apply for a team are significant. This can help secure a kill because 16-25 stacks of might right as they are beating down an enemy will secure plenty of kills.

 

Third, the added advantage of Deadeye’s utility skills can’t be overstated. The cantrips are excellent. Mercy is an on demand Mark reset/stun break meaning it can be used offensively or defensively. Binding Shadow is a knockdown with 15 stacks of vulnerability. Hit a scourge or other enemy with that and it is often a guaranteed kill.

 

[arenta.2953]

I'd say the reason deadeye rifle is trash in pvp is because to use it efficiently you need to kneel

 

and kneeling is bad.

 

GW2's "range" is actually pretty dang short range. even shorter when you realize how many shots u need to kill.

 

therefore, mobility is king. ranged fighting turns into kiting the far stronger damage melee opponent. as your only advantage is you can hit him, he can't hit you.

 

but kneeling takes that away. you lose the ability to kite, and thus they will reach you fast. add to that as a thief. you tend to have low hp. low armor. so your need for mobility is that much greater

 

 

if you don't kneel. your dmg is.....well...unimpressive.

 

 

 

plus we have ranger longbow. which has the same 1500 range u do, while maintaining its mobility. plus a bit more range if you have height advantage......

 

 

 

 

how to fix this?

 

i'd say one of the following

 

option 1: give rifle 1500 range even when not kneeling. and knockback or knockdown immunity when kneeling (but not stun/daze), or a 25% dmg reduction.

also, when kneeling. give the rifle the same height advantage range bonus as longbow.

 

 

option 2: when kneeling, make it so u can move. but at a slow speed (as if you crippled)

 

option 3: do away with kneeling entirely. make its dmg default for rifle. but have some skills stop you to fire (think ranger longbow's #5)

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

> @"Urejt.5648" said:

> 1. Weak value of traits and skills:

> 2. useless deadeye traits exept quickness trait

> 3. too expensive rifle skills

> 4. garbage elite stealth skill, but forced to use it on rifle (45 cooldown for 3 sec stealth? bliding powder is much better lel)

> 5. garbage rifle autoatack

 

1) Definitely a lot of fine tuning needed. I'm starting to hate the long cooldowns on the Utility skills. I always hate how costly Rifle skills (non-kneel) are.

2) The middle traits are not bad. The bottom traits need improvement (e.g. One in the Chamber should reduce Cantrip cooldown). The only thing I don't like about the top traits is Silent Scope. I am already paying a trait slot then it also charges me Initiative cost. Traits should give discounts on cost, not add cost. It's so stupid. It completely pigeon hole any Rifle build to take Trickery just to offset that additional cost.

3) This is the same as #1, lol

4) The value of Shadow Meld is its ability to remove Revealed -- twice.

5) Yup, including the useless stealth attack.

[Urejt.5648]

I just realized how weak deadeye's elite is. 3 sec stealth every 45 seconds. Complete garbage when compered to blinding powder. Or look at mirage's elite. Teleport every 20 second which is huge upgrade from teleport utility which is on 30 sec cooldow. And u can stack 3 teleport! insane!

[ToPNoP.2493]

Because button smashers should not be op.

[Kuulpb.5412]

> @"Urejt.5648" said:

> 1. Weak value of traits and skills:

> 2. useless deadeye traits exept quickness trait

> 3. too expensive rifle skills

> 4. garbage elite stealth skill, but forced to use it on rifle (45 cooldown for 3 sec stealth? bliding powder is much better lel)

> 5. garbage rifle autoatack

 

nothing is "Useless" In pvp, everything has a use if you learn how to use it. I bet someone out there has a string deadeye rifle build, but no-one listens to them because it uses the rifle.

[Kuulpb.5412]

> @"arenta.2953" said:

> I'd say the reason deadeye rifle is trash in pvp is because to use it efficiently you need to kneel

>

> and kneeling is bad.

>

> GW2's "range" is actually pretty dang short range. even shorter when you realize how many shots u need to kill.

>

> therefore, mobility is king. ranged fighting turns into kiting the far stronger damage melee opponent. as your only advantage is you can hit him, he can't hit you.

>

> but kneeling takes that away. you lose the ability to kite, and thus they will reach you fast. add to that as a thief. you tend to have low hp. low armor. so your need for mobility is that much greater

>

>

> if you don't kneel. your dmg is.....well...unimpressive.

>

>

>

> plus we have ranger longbow. which has the same 1500 range u do, while maintaining its mobility. plus a bit more range if you have height advantage......

>

>

>

>

> how to fix this?

>

> i'd say one of the following

>

> option 1: give rifle 1500 range even when not kneeling. and knockback or knockdown immunity when kneeling (but not stun/daze), or a 25% dmg reduction.

> also, when kneeling. give the rifle the same height advantage range bonus as longbow.

>

>

> option 2: when kneeling, make it so u can move. but at a slow speed (as if you crippled)

>

> option 3: do away with kneeling entirely. make its dmg default for rifle. but have some skills stop you to fire (think ranger longbow's #5)

 

Just a passing comment - when not kneeling it does the same damage ( if not more) compared to warrior rifle, and yet I find that fun and useful as no-one expects a killshot!

 

I would disagree with giving rifle 1500 base for deadeye, as that would make kneeling redundant (well kneeling would have a bit better damage but same range, so mobility > damage)

 

Moving while kneeling I would 100% agree with, like you're aiming , so super slow movement, but movement. - this would be an option I agree with.

 

However I would really dislike option 3, because that would sort of.. stop the deadeye being deadeye, they are snipers/bounty hunters waiting and marking contracts, not widowmaker.

 

 

[arenta.2953]

> @"Kuulpb.5412" said:

> > @"arenta.2953" said:

> > I'd say the reason deadeye rifle is trash in pvp is because to use it efficiently you need to kneel

> >

> > and kneeling is bad.

> >

> > GW2's "range" is actually pretty dang short range. even shorter when you realize how many shots u need to kill.

> >

> > therefore, mobility is king. ranged fighting turns into kiting the far stronger damage melee opponent. as your only advantage is you can hit him, he can't hit you.

> >

> > but kneeling takes that away. you lose the ability to kite, and thus they will reach you fast. add to that as a thief. you tend to have low hp. low armor. so your need for mobility is that much greater

> >

> >

> > if you don't kneel. your dmg is.....well...unimpressive.

> >

> >

> >

> > plus we have ranger longbow. which has the same 1500 range u do, while maintaining its mobility. plus a bit more range if you have height advantage......

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > how to fix this?

> >

> > i'd say one of the following

> >

> > option 1: give rifle 1500 range even when not kneeling. and knockback or knockdown immunity when kneeling (but not stun/daze), or a 25% dmg reduction.

> > also, when kneeling. give the rifle the same height advantage range bonus as longbow.

> >

> >

> > option 2: when kneeling, make it so u can move. but at a slow speed (as if you crippled)

> >

> > option 3: do away with kneeling entirely. make its dmg default for rifle. but have some skills stop you to fire (think ranger longbow's #5)

>

> Just a passing comment - when not kneeling it does the same damage ( if not more) compared to warrior rifle, and yet I find that fun and useful as no-one expects a killshot!

>

> I would disagree with giving rifle 1500 base for deadeye, as that would make kneeling redundant (well kneeling would have a bit better damage but same range, so mobility > damage)

>

> Moving while kneeling I would 100% agree with, like you're aiming , so super slow movement, but movement. - this would be an option I agree with.

>

> However I would really dislike option 3, because that would sort of.. stop the deadeye being deadeye, they are snipers/bounty hunters waiting and marking contracts, not widowmaker.

>

>

 

ty for input, and generally agreed. #3 doesn't seem popular. but its a "give up" option i had to put in xD

[babazhook.6805]

> @"Urejt.5648" said:

> I just realized how weak deadeye's elite is. 3 sec stealth every 45 seconds. Complete garbage when compered to blinding powder. Or look at mirage's elite. Teleport every 20 second which is huge upgrade from teleport utility which is on 30 sec cooldow. And u can stack 3 teleport! insane!

 

It is NOT 3 seconds stealth every 45 seconds. You can use it twice in that period of time and it removes revealed which BP does not do.

 

You in fact get 2 stealth usages every 45 seconds PLUS reveal remove. If traited to take advantage of this (as example taking the SA line with SE traited) this means back to back usages of stealth no matter the reveal state for 8 seconds total removing 4 damaging conditions. I find this more then a little useful with the current plethora of condition builds as if I am in a revealed state with Conditions on me , not having this means cleanse is compromised.

 

Added to this , given the skill has two uses and a cantrip it doubles up what you can do with one in the Chamber. This then cascades down into builds that are using Periphial vision or fire for effect. (Shadowmeld stealth, gain a new stolen item via One in the chamber , use stolen item add 10 stacks might and apply boons from stolen item. You are not doing that with blinding powder as it not a cantrip). Using this method along with one or two of the cantrips (which contrary to your suggestions are very good) , a thief can always have his F2 slot filled with something ready to use. While some of those F2 utilities are lacking, others are very very good. (the Engie stolen is excellent as is the one off necroes)

 

 

[JVJD.4912]

Rifle ?? Your empowered skills immobilizes you, one dodge/gap closer and your opponents are pretty much in your face

Without kneeling your dps is greatly reduced to a point its better to go rifle warrior.

If you are going to tell me 2 shot is the same as 3 shots for their 3rd skill then there is no point of discussing- 33% dps loss on one skill alone lmao

 

The thief rifle doesn't feel its designed for spvp but for wvw it can be usefull

Honestly i didn't get the hype for Deadeye when we had a rifle warrior their kills-shot can hit a gaurdian for 21k in wvw which pierces, its berserker variant is great for blobs.

[Elyxia.2943]

l2p rifle .... kneel is nice with shadow arts, good for kite ...