Orr and Hero Points

[Noa.7490]

Apart from some metas, Orr as a whole is severely depopulated but unfortunately the difficulty level for some Hero Points has not been addressed. For instance, in Malchor's Leap, near Karst Plain, there are two Hero Points guarded by nothing less than Champions, both accompanied by a retinue of vets and one, worst of all, is in some very closed quarters. Would it scorch the devs much to lower the difficulty of these hero points a bit?

[Silencio.2604]

Ah yeah I think 1 of those is meant to be done at end of event there, and other ones is easy if you have stealth otherwise I think you need group as well. HoT is full of hero points made to be done with groups of players. Wished they would have kept it all soloable but at least there is lfg tool for HoT.

Best to just revisit the place until there is event/group of players there.

[Ayumi Spender.1082]

> @"Silencio.2604" said:

> Ah yeah I think 1 of those is meant to be done at end of event there, and other ones is easy if you have stealth otherwise I think you need group as well. HoT is full of hero points made to be done with groups of players. Wished they would have kept it all soloable but at least there is lfg tool for HoT.

> Best to just revisit the place until there is event/group of players there.

 

Which is why it should be updated to not need it. I'm sure one of the ones he's talking about is that one Champion Risen Flying "Not Harpy" Knight thing.

 

It's not just about it being a hero point, but messes with map completion.

[Silencio.2604]

> @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said:

> Which is why it should be updated to not need it. I'm sure one of the ones he's talking about is that one Champion Risen Flying "Not Harpy" Knight thing.

>

> It's not just about it being a hero point, but messes with map completion.

 

Yeah but I mean it makes sense for them to be there if HoT is full of similar group difficulty hero points. Or do they have to change those too? That's a lot of work/changes, it is what it is now.

[Ayumi Spender.1082]

> @"Silencio.2604" said:

> > @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said:

> > Which is why it should be updated to not need it. I'm sure one of the ones he's talking about is that one Champion Risen Flying "Not Harpy" Knight thing.

> >

> > It's not just about it being a hero point, but messes with map completion.

>

> Yeah but I mean it makes sense for them to be there if HoT is full of similar group difficulty hero points. Or do they have to change those too? That's a lot of work/changes, it is what it is now.

 

It doesn't as the problem is not the Hero Point, it's the random enemies that's around it.

 

HoT Hero Points have you fight champions and such to gain the hero point.

As you stated, if I was on let's say a Thief or something, I could get the hero point easily alone in Orr. If I'm on a class that can't stealth I would need people. That's pretty much in the way of just remove that thing roaming around the hero point as it's not needed there.

[Donari.5237]

The ones that need stealth aren't a huge deal even if they are somewhat inconvenient to do at your leisure. Get a Thief or Scrapper friend if you aren't one yourself and you can two-man it, or you can get the kits that give stealth to anyone using them.

 

The problem ones are where constant damaging thorny growths cover the spot so you cannot possibly complete the channel unless a meta chain event is done by many people. They may have fixed those in a patch, but I'm not sure. I'm thinking specifically of sw Cursed Shore, across the water to the area leading to the temple. Since many legendaries require map completion, and even if one isn't going for the Gift of Exploration completing Cursed Shore has some nice rewards, I agree that some tweaking is needed.

[Silencio.2604]

> @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said:

> > @"Silencio.2604" said:

> > > @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said:

> > > Which is why it should be updated to not need it. I'm sure one of the ones he's talking about is that one Champion Risen Flying "Not Harpy" Knight thing.

> > >

> > > It's not just about it being a hero point, but messes with map completion.

> >

> > Yeah but I mean it makes sense for them to be there if HoT is full of similar group difficulty hero points. Or do they have to change those too? That's a lot of work/changes, it is what it is now.

>

> It doesn't as the problem is not the Hero Point, it's the random enemies that's around it.

>

> HoT Hero Points have you fight champions and such to gain the hero point.

> As you stated, if I was on let's say a Thief or something, I could get the hero point easily alone in Orr. If I'm on a class that can't stealth I would need people. That's pretty much in the way of just remove that thing roaming around the hero point as it's not needed there.

 

Think they are not random and are guarding it, sort of, similar ones in HoT where there are enemies surrounding it and you just need to commune with it. Don't think those champions in Orr are there by accident, I see it more as a tutorial for what's to come, can't take it all on alone, but I am fine with removing them like I said wish they all were soloable.

[Noa.7490]

The one on the temple (south of Lights Waypoint) isn't a random, that champ is always there with a vet and other enemies all around. Also, I participated in the Malchor meta with a rather large group. Figured it would be a good time as any to ask for help but no one did. Everyone scattered once they got their shinies from the event.

[Just a flesh wound.3589]

There’s a couple of stealth gizmos anyone can use. [Harpy feathers](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Harpy_Feathers_(consumable)) give 3 seconds of stealth and can be used while moving and [spy Kits](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Order_of_Whispers_Spy_Kit) also give 3 seconds of stealth that can be used while communing. I’ve used the spy kit to open a chest guarded by a champion.

[Ayumi Spender.1082]

> @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:

> There’s a couple of stealth gizmos anyone can use. [Harpy feathers](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Harpy_Feathers_(consumable)) give 3 seconds of stealth and can be used while moving and [spy Kits](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Order_of_Whispers_Spy_Kit) also give 3 seconds of stealth that can be used while communing. I’ve used the spy kit to open a chest guarded by a champion.

 

I thought communing was 6 seconds.

[Noa.7490]

Both Harpy feathers and spy kits don't work for the Hero Point I'm talking about. Both the champ and the vet spot you easily and before you can even begin to commune you're dead as a door nail.

[Nick Lentz.6982]

Just do some WvW and use the tokens :p

[Just a flesh wound.3589]

> @"Noa.7490" said:

> Both Harpy feathers and spy kits don't work for the Hero Point I'm talking about. Both the champ and the vet spot you easily and before you can even begin to commune you're dead as a door nail.

 

Probably then you’ll need to ask help from guildies. If nothing else have one or two get aggro then you run in and grab the skill point.

[Noa.7490]

Probably. Truth is, players should not have to resort to those kind of tricks when a simple change from champion to veteran would do just fine.

[Just a flesh wound.3589]

> @"Noa.7490" said:

> Probably. Truth is, players should not have to resort to those kind of tricks when a simple change from champion to veteran would do just fine.

 

Probably. But one should also consider that making changes to the game that reduces the need for players to group up and help each other may be beneficial in each individual case for that particular player but detrimental to the game overall.

[FitzChevalerie.1035]

most core champ are soloabbles.

at worst if you can't wait ( tbh i always see peopl on core map) just buyt those hp with wvw notaries

[Noa.7490]

> @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:

> > @"Noa.7490" said:

> > Probably. Truth is, players should not have to resort to those kind of tricks when a simple change from champion to veteran would do just fine.

>

> Probably. But one should also consider that making changes to the game that reduces the need for players to group up and help each other may be beneficial in each individual case for that particular player but detrimental to the game overall.

 

The reality is that the Orr maps are severely depopulated since HoT and PoF came out. Apart from certain metas, Orr is empty so I believe that the difficulty pertaining certain areas should be adjusted by taking that in consideration.

[Justine.6351]

> @"Nick Lentz.6982" said:

> Just do some WvW and use the tokens :p

 

The humorous part is that pvers cried and cried about having to do wvw completion so anet removed those maps' as requirements. Now they don't even want to do pve champions that a good player with a good build can solo.

[Just a flesh wound.3589]

> @"Justine.6351" said:

> > @"Nick Lentz.6982" said:

> > Just do some WvW and use the tokens :p

>

> The humorous part is that pvers cried and cried about having to do wvw completion so anet removed those maps' as requirements. Now they don't even want to do pve champions that a good player with a good build can solo.

 

Actually, I don’t think thats why WvW requirements were removed at all. WvW requirements were removed because they made a new WvW map and were planning to not only make more maps but to rotate among the different maps. Which means that completing WvW could be much harder as someone could be partway through WvW completion only to have the maps they were working on removed and changed to a new map. So I think it was removed to keep players from unfair WvW requirements. So not only is your remark an unfair characterization of PvE players, WvW completion has nothing to do with the topic of this thread.

[Justine.6351]

> @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:

> > @"Justine.6351" said:

> > > @"Nick Lentz.6982" said:

> > > Just do some WvW and use the tokens :p

> >

> > The humorous part is that pvers cried and cried about having to do wvw completion so anet removed those maps' as requirements. Now they don't even want to do pve champions that a good player with a good build can solo.

>

> Actually, I don’t think thats why WvW requirements were removed at all. WvW requirements were removed because they made a new WvW map and were planning to not only make more maps but to rotate among the different maps. Which means that completing WvW could be much harder as someone could be partway through WvW completion only to have the maps they were working on removed and changed to a new map. So I think it was removed to keep players from unfair WvW requirements. So not only is your remark an unfair characterization of PvE players, WvW completion has nothing to do with the topic of this thread.

 

Because pvers were not crying to have wvw map completion removed as a requirment? I'm a wvwer and I can probably solo those champs on a pewpew hammer rev. I've done map completion twice, once on a mesmer forever ago and once on ranger/druid last year. Without looking, I'm willing to bet you can kill the adds, lure the champ away and quick get back to channel the hero point without having to even kill it.

[Just a flesh wound.3589]

> @"Justine.6351" said:

> > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:

> > > @"Justine.6351" said:

> > > > @"Nick Lentz.6982" said:

> > > > Just do some WvW and use the tokens :p

> > >

> > > The humorous part is that pvers cried and cried about having to do wvw completion so anet removed those maps' as requirements. Now they don't even want to do pve champions that a good player with a good build can solo.

> >

> > Actually, I don’t think thats why WvW requirements were removed at all. WvW requirements were removed because they made a new WvW map and were planning to not only make more maps but to rotate among the different maps. Which means that completing WvW could be much harder as someone could be partway through WvW completion only to have the maps they were working on removed and changed to a new map. So I think it was removed to keep players from unfair WvW requirements. So not only is your remark an unfair characterization of PvE players, WvW completion has nothing to do with the topic of this thread.

>

> Because pvers were not crying to have wvw map completion removed as a requirment? I'm a wvwer and I can probably solo those champs on a pewpew hammer rev. I've done map completion twice, once on a mesmer forever ago and once on ranger/druid last year. Without looking, I'm willing to bet you can kill the adds, lure the champ away and quick get back to channel the hero point without having to even kill it.

 

PvE players may have cried to get WvW requirements removed but your statement said ANet removed the requirements for that reason, which is incorrect. If the only reason you are going to post is not to be helpful but to sneer at a class of players at least get your facts right.

[Haleydawn.3764]

It's true though, you can kite the champion away, go back to the HP and get it, only killing the Veteran Spark that's right next to the HP.

 

The Spy Kit consumables are also good to use for these tricky HPs, the One guarded by the Champion Risen Knight isn't the only one guarded by a Champion, yet is the only one people have a problem with here /shrug

[Despond.2174]

> @"Silencio.2604" said:

> > @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said:

> > Which is why it should be updated to not need it. I'm sure one of the ones he's talking about is that one Champion Risen Flying "Not Harpy" Knight thing.

> >

> > It's not just about it being a hero point, but messes with map completion.

>

> Yeah but I mean it makes sense for them to be there if HoT is full of similar group difficulty hero points. Or do they have to change those too? That's a lot of work/changes, it is what it is now.

 

I can understand for map completion, otherwise there's not too much much reason to worry about every core HP. POF alone can take you nearly through 1.25 elite specs and they are all soloable. You only need to really clear 2 HOT zones if you do POF.

[Shirlias.8104]

> @"Nick Lentz.6982" said:

> Just do some WvW and use the tokens :p

 

This ( 2 tokens to be clear ).

[Just a flesh wound.3589]

> @"Noa.7490" said:

> > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:

> > > @"Noa.7490" said:

> > > Probably. Truth is, players should not have to resort to those kind of tricks when a simple change from champion to veteran would do just fine.

> >

> > Probably. But one should also consider that making changes to the game that reduces the need for players to group up and help each other may be beneficial in each individual case for that particular player but detrimental to the game overall.

>

> The reality is that the Orr maps are severely depopulated since HoT and PoF came out. Apart from certain metas, Orr is empty so I believe that the difficulty pertaining certain areas should be adjusted by taking that in consideration.

 

Unless someone needs that hero point right away they can wait till the Orr map has a daily event requirement. At that time there should be plenty of people on the map, some of which will need that hero point also. Even only one more person would be a help and others might join in to get the champ bag from killing it.