Solution to new Raiders and Raid sellers.

[LordOtto.2650]

Cyninja.2954

Yet more people kill it?! How I mentioned on an other post, they always need 3 green people, so they can kill it! I think you don't watch lfg or don't want too! Come do for me the greens with other 2 of your bodies, and I will do it too, ok, deal?! You don't know what is more and more people, just saying! Wanna bet if I buy first Dhuum kill then I kill it with squads every week, and I can pull my weight (12%, we failed greens)?! Because there they have 3 people who are green geeks, don't bug out, and can do a mechanic that has absolutely nothing to do with GW2!

My head hurts when you say more and more people kill Dhuum, it's even lower then I expected! Anet knows, they know they did not do their job with that mechanic how it should have been done!

I can say that I pull my weight in every boss, and often carry, like on Deimos, like on Desmina, like on Statues, like on Matthias, like on KC, Xera, Sabetha. I one shot them with any squad, and I tell you, I won't carry any person on Dhuum, I will do it once in my life, and never help anyone to get the kill, or even play it!

Again every lfg asks for green people, and you speak about how many kill it, it's not much, it's very low, the green people are even lower, that bad the mechanic is!, it's bugged or badly designed (standing near the balls and can't get it, you feel like in a space suit, when you get the balls you can't hear anything, they disappear like kitten, you don't know you got them or not, and I don't want to see any other kitten mechanic like this in Raids, ever!

[Vinceman.4572]

I see a lot of players in streams getting Dhuum down without any problems on green duty. Maybe you have to practice a little bit more or give it up to other players that are more confident with said mechanic.

 

(And no, I'm not a raid seller :p )

[Joxer.6024]

> @"LordOtto.2650" said:

> I can say that I pull my weight in every boss, and often carry, like on Deimos, like on Desmina, like on Statues, like on Matthias, like on KC, Xera, Sabetha. I one shot them with any squad, and I tell you, I won't carry any person on Dhuum, I will do it once in my life, and never help anyone to get the kill, or even play it!

 

Remind me to make sure you aren't in any raid group I do. Good thing I don't pug....sheesh mate.

 

 

[Tyson.5160]

> @"Joxer.6024" said:

> > @"Raikidd.5803" said:

> > The idea sounds okish but the reward is pretty bad, I don't see myself repeating a boss just to get a little more gold or some LI/ asc gear that I don't need because I have tons in bank.

> >

> > > @"Joxer.6024" said:

> > > > @"Magnus Godrik.5841" said:

> > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > > > > I think a couple things would be nice. A new Raid daily for bosses with the reward of an additional LI would be good and possibly some more gold. That would probably get more people to do certain bosses much like fractal dailies.

> > > > >

> > > > I like this idea. This will make me want to raid more

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Same here. This is actually a pretty decent suggestion. A daily raid boss just might open up some opportunities for new folks to get a crack at it, and they just might enjoy the content and thus have a DESIRE to learn more, gear better and all that fun stuff that comes with raiding!!

> > > Shame ANET doesn't really look at these forums much, apparently MetaBattle is the devs go to....lol, really? Maybe if it was updated more?

> > > Anyways, good thinking @"Tyson.5160" !!! ;)

> >

> > The suggestion is great if you think people will not do the dailies with friends but with randoms from lfg. If the daily boss is the last boss of a instance you bet that I will not spend my time teaching people each boss until that particular one, I will just run it with established raiders.

>

> Yea, good point. With it being a 'daily" I guess it could be any boss, and as you said, aint no one gonna want to teach Deimos for a daily! I dunno, maybe lock to the first boss of each wing,W5 excluded for now?

> And yea, kinda wish the "rewards" in raids was a tad better, for lack of a better term. So many asc that just don't need...but then again that's rng for ya. Did WOW raids forever and it would seem that 1 piece of armor/gear you needed would never drop!

> Ah well, maybe ANET got something cookin, that or just leave it be. ;)

 

I suppose it would give people a daily reason to go into the raid even if they had their weekly clear. I was just going down the line of thinking of giving people a daily reason to do raiding. I imagine some people do their weekly clear after reset and don’t bother going back in for the rest of the week. Maybe this might drive more raiders back into the content and recycle some of player base back into that game mode.

 

[Talindra.4958]

> @"Chris McSwag.4683" said:

> > @"Vayne.8563" said:

> > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > > @"Vayne.8563" said:

> > > > > @"CptAurellian.9537" said:

> > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said:

> > > > > > Australia is not a niche time slot, mate. It's a country. We have lots of people. Making us into second class in game citizens is bad business, if you ask me.

> > > > > Well, compared to the two big blocks (north america and EU), Australia certainly is a niche time slot. Just for perspective, you have less than 5% of the EU population.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > So we're going to marginalize whole countries. Australia is a country in a region referred to as the Oceanic Region and when you add up all the countries in that region, you have a lot more people. How many of them play Guild Wars 2 I have no idea, but let's not say that a percentage of the world should be excluded from content because they're not in the US, or that it's easy because it's easy for people in the US. We bought the game game that everyone else did, except we probably paid more for it.

> > >

> > > What does a whole country have to do with this?

> > >

> > > I was referring to player activity on the servers of EU and US. If Australians would have that many people, this would be a non issue.

> > >

> > > Thus from an activity perspective and player availability, the community from there is niche.

> >

> > It's not just this country. It's the whole area of the world. And it's harder to raid from here.

> >

> > Making blanket statements like it's easy to raid, because you live in the US just isn't true. Even in the US not everyone plays without lag or latency.

>

> Lag and latency depending on your conenction and proximity to the servers is a thing in all countries, thats just how it is. Obviously it is more common for oceanic players as you are far from the servers, but **that really doesnt have anything to do with this thread** or wether raids are accessible or not.

 

Btw. Latency and lag.. is annoying but it's not impossible . My hub and me play with 400 to 600 average ping being oceanic player. We hv done every single raid achievements (except Dhuum cm) .. we are only average player.. if we can do it.. anyone can.

 

[TexZero.7910]

I still don't see why people are blaming "Raids" when the real blame is on inadequate group finding tools.

 

If the game had proper filtering, request, restrictions and had ways to find people and guilds which are active in your timezone who do similar activities as you, im sure that'd solve the problem more than anything anyone can do to "Raids".

[Tyson.5160]

> @"TexZero.7910" said:

> I still don't see why people are blaming "Raids" when the real blame is on inadequate group finding tools.

>

> If the game had proper filtering, request, restrictions and had ways to find people and guilds which are active in your timezone who do similar activities as you, im sure that'd solve the problem more than anything anyone can do to "Raids".

 

100% agree with Tex on this one. We need better tools.

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"LordOtto.2650" said:

> Cyninja.2954

> Yet more people kill it?! How I mentioned on an other post, they always need 3 green people, so they can kill it! I think you don't watch lfg or don't want too! Come do for me the greens with other 2 of your bodies, and I will do it too, ok, deal?! You don't know what is more and more people, just saying! Wanna bet if I buy first Dhuum kill then I kill it with squads every week, and I can pull my weight (12%, we failed greens)?! Because there they have 3 people who are green geeks, don't bug out, and can do a mechanic that has absolutely nothing to do with GW2!

 

I raid weekly and play tank as well as make my own groups and ever since wing 5 released I've run every boss twice weekly on average while helping out friends. I have a pretty good grasp of what is happening on the EU LFG, thank you very much.

 

> @"LordOtto.2650" said:

> My head hurts when you say more and more people kill Dhuum, it's even lower then I expected! Anet knows, they know they did not do their job with that mechanic how it should have been done!

 

Yet the amount of groups weekly that require kill proof and clear Dhuum has increased with every passing week. Logical conclusion: either a lot of people want to get carried, or a lot of more people have the kill. I'll wager it's number 2. This is something I have actively noticed because the amount of LFGs for 4 boss wing 5s has increased versus boss 1-3.

 

> @"LordOtto.2650" said:

> I can say that I pull my weight in every boss, and often carry, like on Deimos, like on Desmina, like on Statues, like on Matthias, like on KC, Xera, Sabetha. I one shot them with any squad, and I tell you, I won't carry any person on Dhuum, I will do it once in my life, and never help anyone to get the kill, or even play it!

 

You seem to be the only one who complains about greens though. Both on the forums as well as in game. Most people who I've talked to say greens are annoying and require getting used to but certainly not bugged or not working properly.

 

> @"LordOtto.2650" said:

> Again every lfg asks for green people, and you speak about how many kill it, it's not much, it's very low, the green people are even lower, that bad the mechanic is!, it's bugged or badly designed (standing near the kitten and can't get it, you feel like in a space suit, when you get the kitten you can't hear anything, they disappear like kitten, you don't know you got them or not, and I don't want to see any other kitten mechanic like this in Raids, ever!

 

I wouldn't be able to say. To me it seemes like Dhuum LFGs are all over the place with what they ask going as far as asking for tanks even though tanking Dhuum is not that difficult, just tedious and boring.

[Talindra.4958]

Ppl blame anything when they couldn't do something thier way.

[Talindra.4958]

I think we have forgotten... How long it takes for ppl to get no cannon achievement and the eternal tittle when wing one was just released. :) Overtime... It's easy peasy. In six months time ppl will forget these arguments...

Wing 5 imo is a master piece. Best raid content ever. Weldone anet..

 

I asked Desmina... What happen now when all the reapers ....

She said - efficiently.

I don't know.. I'm super curious / excited of what we will expect to find out in the next wing‼‼

/WTB leak

[Eramonster.2718]

Kinda off topic but,

Do agree with TexZero.7910. Think I mentioned it before somewhere, the rough part is for players to get started or know how to. I wouldn't blame the in game LFG tho but Anet could make a more better/attractive one than the current. Altho its working, it does look slightly "sketchy" or "excel sheet like" design thus not widely accepted.

 

Altho it can be managed (eg.Daily: Kill any boss in w2) I don't think there will be a raid daily because it will limit non-expansion players.

 

From neutral stand point. There's very little Anet or anyone in general can do with the toxic community. Being too strict will only leads to complain on dictatorship, pointless banning etc. Rejects instead of correcting when taught(not providing reason in defence) etc.

[Tyson.5160]

> @"Eramonster.2718" said:

> Kinda off topic but,

 

> Altho it can be managed (eg.Daily: Kill any boss in w2) I don't think there will be a raid daily because it will limit non-expansion players.

 

There already expansion only dailies already such as desert and heart of Maguuna resource gathering and vistas.

 

I think giving people a daily reason to go back might bring more raiding people back in get additional rewards.

 

 

[Joxer.6024]

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> I raid weekly and play tank as well as make my own groups and ever since wing 5 released I've run every boss twice weekly on average while helping out friends. I have a pretty good grasp of what is happening on the EU LFG, thank you very much.

 

Oh please come to NA!!!! You are my new hero...if only there were folks like you on my LFG!!! Oh well.....someday I will be Eternal!!!! ;)

 

[Chris McSwag.4683]

> @"LordOtto.2650" said:

> (Just saying that the green mechanic is so broken that it's a laugh, sometimes you can get the orbs, and sometimes no matter how close you are you just can't get it, the orbs what you get sometimes doesn't even disappear and still count! I don't have FPS drops, don't have lag, it's the designers fault, who couldn't make a mechanic work! Just see how many of us fail because of that really bad mechanic, what is not working how it should be!)

 

Unless youre having really bad latency issues, the greens shouldn't be much of an issue at all. It's not game designers fault that you don't understand or are able to do it, but you seem to be in a minority in regards to that matter as evidently more and more pugs succeed.

 

Idk if its of any help, but here is a PoV of doing second green (its like 25s into the video):

 

 

[maxwelgm.4315]

Out of curiosity what do you guys mean with more and more groups, and with "lots of streams"? Realistically how many _strictly new_ people do you meet every week during raid clear?

[Chris McSwag.4683]

> @"maxwelgm.4315" said:

> Out of curiosity what do you guys mean with more and more groups, and with "lots of streams"? Realistically how many _strictly new_ people do you meet every week during raid clear?

 

Its just a perception of the amount of groups listed in the LFG, their requirements as well as the amount of people that kill it for the first time. There is no official data on exact numbers but if the amount of groups go up, the requirements for them go down, and pretty much all of them fill Id say it is a fair assumption that the amount of people that beat Dhuum is increasing.

[Vinceman.4572]

> @"maxwelgm.4315" said:

> Out of curiosity what do you guys mean with more and more groups, and with "lots of streams"? Realistically how many _strictly new_ people do you meet every week during raid clear?

 

The LFG is filled with Dhuum groups nowadays in contrast to the first weeks when the raid was new. Additionally I'm browsing through the GW2 section on Twitch with people (no speed run groups) killing Dhuum here and there.

And since LordOtto is the only one struggling and coming into the forums for it - haven't seen any reddit posts so far - it's probably a player (skill) issue and not a common problem at all.

[maxwelgm.4315]

Well I was not talking about OP's problem, I was asking, specifically, if you as individuals look through your previous encounters, how many _strictly_ new people you have met by raiding; because that is the claim right, that there are more groups raiding. And so raiders should be able to notice this directly (because community is tight-knit and rather small as is) rather than describe it as a general phenomenon.

[Chris McSwag.4683]

> @"maxwelgm.4315" said:

> Well I was not talking about OP's problem, I was asking, specifically, if you as individuals look through your previous encounters, how many _strictly_ new people you have met by raiding; because that is the claim right, that there are more groups raiding. And so raiders should be able to notice this directly (because community is tight-knit and rather small as is) rather than describe it as a general phenomenon.

 

I'm not entirely sure what you are looking for tbh.

The community is small relatively speaking, but its still large enough that you frequently encounter lots of people whom you havent played with before, especially on groups with low or no requirements as that population is much greater than the one with high experience. I don't think anyone keeps an exact count of new people they meet(or even who is in the group) and i personally don't recognise any people in pugs or trainings i join for fun, but that doesnt really say anything.

Also consider that we are talking about a pretty slow and steady flow, and not a tsunami of new raiders.

[Snipoukos.4912]

> @"LordOtto.2650" said:

> What do you guys think? It is worth more then 280 gold?!! The people should just agree that one Boss max how much can it cost, and not the sellers! If they want + gold, then accept the communities deal or no deal! This should be the normal mentality!

 

That's not how the market works. Raid selling isn't that different from Trading post. If an item is really rare or unique then the price can be really high , doesn't matter if you are willing to pay for it or not. The more accessible the item the lower the price goes , unless every item owner agrees to sell it at the same price aka price fix. Basic economic model of supply and demand. Same principle applies to raid selling as well

 

 

 

[TwilightSoul.9048]

Another issue I've noticed is that experienced raid-players not only rarely ever pick up inexperienced players but also rarely pick up people with non-meta builds. I understand that you have to have sufficient healing, boonshare, damage and cc - that's a nobrainer, but unless you specificly want to do speedruns there is actually a lot of wiggleroom. But most people don't seem to realize that and will only take people with "optimal" builds even if they've just copied the build from qT and have barely any experience playing it.

I've noticed similar behaviour in fractals where someone told me I should switch to Staff Weaver because I apparantly didn't do enough damage.. I'm playing the good old FA Scepter/Warhorn Tempest, he was a Staff Weaver and I most definitly did more damage than he did - which he would never in his dreams admit since according to qT benchmarks, his is the stronger build (ignoring the fact that he didn't play his build well).

 

Unfortunatly it's a community issue which can't really be solved. We can only hope that, with some time, more casual raid guilds will emerge and show how unneccessary qT builds are as long as you don't aim to speedrun a raid. The only Build that I find hard to replace with a nonmeta Build is Chronomancer. That one, I think, is a balancing issue since there isn't really any alternative.

 

If I had more time at hand I would organize "casual" raids, obviously I'd still pay attention to what build everyone has but as I've said before, there's a lot of wiggle room if you just want to beat the Raid instead of doing a speedrun. And I encourage everyone who does have the time to do the same - maybe that way we can get rid of at least some of the toxicity around raids :)

[LordOtto.2650]

> @"Snipoukos.4912" said:

> > @"LordOtto.2650" said:

> > What do you guys think? It is worth more then 280 gold?!! The people should just agree that one Boss max how much can it cost, and not the sellers! If they want + gold, then accept the communities deal or no deal! This should be the normal mentality!

>

> That's not how the market works. Raid selling isn't that different from Trading post. If an item is really rare or unique then the price can be really high , doesn't matter if you are willing to pay for it or not. The more accessible the item the lower the price goes , unless every item owner agrees to sell it at the same price aka price fix. Basic economic model of supply and demand. Same principle applies to raid selling as well

>

>

>

 

You can't read I guess?! If there are no buyers, there are no sellers, end of story! Just see on dulfy how many people said they won't buy Dhuum, even if it unlocks the legendary ring! It doesn't worth it! Dhuum will go down like the rest of the other bosses, because almost nobody pays that amount of gold! When the community will pay how much they want for it, then sellers will remain without +gold or they will do it, how the community desires it!

We can show Anet, that if they tricked us, putting a legendary ring collection into last raid boss, and have to kill it, which in the first weeks wasn't necessary, we can play their game too, like this!

[Vinceman.4572]

> @"maxwelgm.4315" said:

> Well I was not talking about OP's problem, I was asking, specifically, if you as individuals look through your previous encounters, how many _strictly_ new people you have met by raiding; because that is the claim right, that there are more groups raiding. And so raiders should be able to notice this directly (because community is tight-knit and rather small as is) rather than describe it as a general phenomenon.

 

The raiding community isn't that small in EU. The LFG is filled with a lot of groups advertising (some raid selling guild as well, no doubt) even at the weekend. Sometimes you meet people (mostly 1 out of 9 others) in squads you already know or have seen in the past but in my opinion that's not a regular thing. So, it's not possible to notice this directly.

[Chris McSwag.4683]

> @"LordOtto.2650" said:

> > @"Snipoukos.4912" said:

> > > @"LordOtto.2650" said:

> > > What do you guys think? It is worth more then 280 gold?!! The people should just agree that one Boss max how much can it cost, and not the sellers! If they want + gold, then accept the communities deal or no deal! This should be the normal mentality!

> >

> > That's not how the market works. Raid selling isn't that different from Trading post. If an item is really rare or unique then the price can be really high , doesn't matter if you are willing to pay for it or not. The more accessible the item the lower the price goes , unless every item owner agrees to sell it at the same price aka price fix. Basic economic model of supply and demand. Same principle applies to raid selling as well

> >

> >

> >

>

> You can't read I guess?! If there are no buyers, there are no sellers, end of story! Just see on dulfy how many people said they won't buy Dhuum, even if it unlocks the legendary ring! It doesn't worth it! Dhuum will go down like the rest of the other bosses, because almost nobody pays that amount of gold! When the community will pay how much they want for it, then sellers will remain without +gold or they will do it, how the community desires it!

> We can show Anet, that if they tricked us, putting a legendary ring collection into last raid boss, and have to kill it, which in the first weeks wasn't necessary, we can play their game too, like this!

 

In the first few weeks you could not get behind the throne to get the chest, even if you joined an instance in which Dhuum was killed.

Prices go down because of what is economically known as competition. As the different guilds compete over the different customers, some are inclined to lower the price as there isnt much more you can compete with in terms of selling(apart from time spent, but who cares really). The guilds could come to an agreement on prices, but since there is nothing stopping other guilds from entering the market such agreements never last for long.

[MithranArkanere.8957]

The only way this could work if it somehow scales with the age and hours played of the 'newbie' accounts. Otherwise they will do it with alt accounts.

 

Also, we need a real good sink for LI.