Do You Raid?

[Jiza.4392]

> @"Esquilax.3491" said:

> I really wish we could get a dumbed down, scaled system of raids like Wow. Think fractals, you can easily scale rewards and make some exclusive to the high tier raiders.

>

> For the life of me, I can't understand why this isn't already a thing.

 

But But it doest even take one hour to complete one raid boss even without knowing the mechanics. Get into group + start watching YouTube guide for your boss, kill the boss and done. it took most of the times less than 45 mins. These raids allready are so dumbed down, its pretty much same as lfr in wow.

 

[Esquilax.3491]

> @"Jiza.4392" said:

> > @"Esquilax.3491" said:

> > I really wish we could get a dumbed down, scaled system of raids like Wow. Think fractals, you can easily scale rewards and make some exclusive to the high tier raiders.

> >

> > For the life of me, I can't understand why this isn't already a thing.

>

> But But it doest even take one hour to complete one raid boss even without knowing the mechanics. Get into group + start watching YouTube guide for your boss, kill the boss and done. it took most of the times less than 45 mins. These raids allready are so dumbed down, its pretty much same as lfr in wow.

>

 

That's not the problem. The problem is accessibility. Most groups require some kind of proof or whatever that you are not new, which a lot of us are. I'm not dissing those groups, they just want a fast farm or whatever. The problem is a lot of these players voting NO are new, they have either no or very little experience, and It's difficult to find a "learner" group.

[Jiza.4392]

Well there are groups daily who are experienced and doesnt require anything as long as you have metabuilds + daily raidtrainings.I get your point, but its wierd since I didnt have any problem starting raids with training groups etc. Mby players are too sensitive that they cant hear realistic comments about their skill and knowledge. I mean ofc you have to be told that you cant do this and that etc. how else are you supposed to progress except telling bad players that they are playing bad and where they need to improve? Hell if I would kill and waste time from 9 other players becouse I waz playing like a retard, I would hope they kick me cuz its completely deserved.

[ProtoGunner.4953]

Well, sometimes. But not lately. There is one missing options: No time or rather: the return of value is too little compared to the time you have to invest. And more so if you don't _have_ invested your time and can't show your legendary insights you nearly have no chance to pug.

But in the end there are so many other games and other content I want to see and I can do that solo. Raiding means commitment and a lot of waiting time without anything in return. Since I work 100% and have a lot of other things to do I see my free time better invested in faster 'gratifications'.

[arenta.2953]

do i raid....no

 

i've always wanted to. but when they first came out people were so elitist about requirements to be accepted to their party. specific classes(some classes were not allowed), minimum armor requirements, specific builds etc.... and if you didn't use the specific class, with specific build, and specific armor rarity/type. then u would never get in.

 

well i left the game for a while (unrelated reasons) and when i returned, i looked at raids and never felt compelled due to the memory of how strict people were before.

 

sure, now i have full ascended armor, a legendary weapon, and lv 80 on most classes.....and commonly do lv 60-90 fractals

but i just haven't felt like touching raiding because i'm still concerned about the attitude that community has. the attitude might have changed, i'm not sure...havent bothered to check. but the memory of how elitist it was prior, just destroyed any appeal raids had for me.

 

and whenever i see threads on raids on reddit or on forums, it seems to always be complaints of "not worth the time", "required builds", or complaints of people.

 

i remember when dungeons were hard as hell, we'd run them "underwear runs" because we'd die so much and just keep coming even after our armor had broken(first few months in game). that was hard, but never had the elitism that cast people out. people would accept they failed and try again and again. that community i liked.

[Taygus.4571]

> @"Jiza.4392" said:

> I dont understand how people are saying getting in to raiding is hard and getting gear is hard. GW2 is as casual as game can get, I have played 160 hours this game (never played gw2 before)and I got 2 characters geared with ascended (chrono, dh) and I have completed raidwings 1-3 so far (63li atm) and 100/99cm. People are blaming that they cant play 2 hours without being interrupted, well neither can I but it doesnt matter since raids are so easy that you can talk to the phone or with your gf/kids without getting killed. Ooh and it doesnt take even 2 hours, I mostly play 40 min-1h and complete one raidboss in that time.

 

Do you Pug? I assume not.

 

How long did it take the first time you raided?

 

And they're "so easy" for you, evidently not so, for a large number of the player base. I find story bosses challenging. I suppose those are "easy" as well?

 

[Mysticjedi.6053]

I have beaten all the the HOT raid bosses. Then I took a break. With POF raids, there are rarely groups in the lfg. Unfortunately, I feel raiding has become too niche with people too adamant the content is too hard to bring in pugs, it certainly is not. I earned legendary armor by being a pug and often did equal to or better than the group with mechanics and/or dps. The only thing raiding does require is time to learn mechanics. If you know your rotations ascended isn't even a must.

 

Raids are a way for people to feel elite, and while there is nothing wrong with that the lack of lfg says that those who feel elite remain that way by closing themselves off from the rest of the community and becoming insular either in a 10 person group or raid guild. This is not healthy for those people, for growing the content, or the game. This is not an Anet problem this is a gw2 community created issue.

 

While raids were meant to be difficult they are farmed just as easily as dungeons now. However, it does speed up the knowledge gain when lfg is ripe with groups like when the first 3 wings were released. People could see raids were not so difficult, just time consuming in either learning your role or the mechanics. Current lfg makes this much harder and infinitely more time consuming.

[Loosmaster.8263]

> @"DeWolfe.2174" said:

> > @"CptAurellian.9537" said:

> > > @"DeWolfe.2174" said:

> > > a whole 28% Raid and Raid sometimes. GJ Dev's for putting some much into them and gating so many rewards behind something 72% of your customers do not participate in.

> >

> > In the time raiders got their five wings, the rest got 17 open world maps, four new fractals and a bunch of reworks, two addons worth of story etc., 7 living story episodes, more than a dozen weapon and armor sets and a bunch of other things I'm too lazy to think about. Yes, horribly imbalanced.

>

> And, as a WvW player.... what did we get??????????????

 

You got sparkling new fireworks and supposedly a new way to locate the attackers and randomly disappearing structures!!!

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Ashen.2907" said:

> I will take your word for it on the, "because you asked for it," quote, but they said they intended GW 2 to have its own version of raids before the game launched.

No. They said that _dungeons_ were their version of raids. In the same way they said that damage/control/support (often available all at once in a single build) was their version of holy trinity. And as the vertical "vanity progression" was the GW2 version of the horizontal gear grind.

 

 

 

[Chamelion.9536]

"Other" Seen far, far, FAR too many posts about the toxicity of having to be perfect, or otherwise 'git gud' before even getting into it. I'm a casual player who would love to delve into new content, but I want to only have fun, not work my ass off for what little reward their may be. Did that with HoT masteries (LOL).

 

C

[Svarty.8019]

We can only hope this poll informs some design decisions.

[Aeolus.3615]

> @"Svarty.8019" said:

> We can only hope this poll informs some design decisions.

 

Pool was not made on reddit :dizzy: so probably wont.

[FrostDraco.8306]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > I will take your word for it on the, "because you asked for it," quote, but they said they intended GW 2 to have its own version of raids before the game launched.

> No. They said that _dungeons_ were their version of raids. In the same way they said that damage/control/support (often available all at once in a single build) was their version of holy trinity. And as the vertical "vanity progression" was the GW2 version of the horizontal gear grind.

>

>

>

 

Dungeons failed, so this point is moot.

[FrostDraco.8306]

> @"Chamelion.9536" said:

> "Other" Seen far, far, FAR too many posts about the toxicity of having to be perfect, or otherwise 'git gud' before even getting into it. I'm a casual player who would love to delve into new content, but I want to only have fun, not work my kitten off for what little reward their may be. Did that with HoT masteries (LOL).

>

> C

 

Implying HoT masteries were hard work. Delving is work.

 

So when you say you 'would like to delve'. You are lying. Because if you wanted to delve into something you would put in the work to do so.

 

If you are unwilling to work for something you want, then you never really wanted in the first place. You just say and 'think' you do.

[Evolute.6239]

Legendary Heavy is one of my favourite skins in the game, so I'm just chugging along without a guild doing pug and random training discord clear runs for now. Just over 100 LI and almost 4 pieces done.

 

Raids are as fun as you make them. They're not particularly hard, can be done rather quickly and smoothly with a good group, and can be very fun if done with friends who don't care about perfection and being anal, just that the run is smooth and you carry your weight.

[Lunateric.3708]

> @"Svarty.8019" said:

> We can only hope this poll informs some design decisions.

 

You do realize the developers for this game know exactly how many people raid, what bosses are killed and how many times and basically every bit of info you could get your hands on?

 

And they still make raids, can you read between lines?

[Evolute.6239]

> @"Morwath.9817" said:

> > @"Lunateric.3708" said:

> > > @"Turin.6921" said:

> > > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > They were loud enough to be listened to in favor of those that were against it.. so.. no matter what you may remember, they had the louder voice.

> > > >

> > > > Now, with that put out.. I stand and repeat what I said. **even among the community that asked for it** it's sad that less then half of them even tried.

> > > >

> > >

> > > It was not that it was louder. It is just that most reasonable PvEers or PvPers that did not care about raids did not react at all since it is amazingly entitled and childish to object to sth that will affect nothing that has to do with your gaming habbits. If you do not care for them you can ignore them in-game and only takes a miniscule amount of personel to develop compared to the total number of Anet devs. Why would you object for something that does not affect you.

> > >

> > > The few people that were against it were just unreasonable. The only real objection was that raids would breed elitism. But that argument is self-defeating, as you are basically complaining about breeding elitism in a game mode that does not exist and you would not play anyway if it existed. So why would you care about it.

> > >

> >

> > Truth is people that complain as a whole **do want** something that is locked behind raids. An item, to experience it, legendary armor or the ring precursor, something. They are just rationalizing or at least trying to rationalize why they can't or won't raid.

>

> Ooo, nooo. If Quaggan would complain about raids, it would be because raid design is wasted resources, as those resources could go for sPvP, WvW or even better and more frequent Living Seasons.

 

Foooo, considering the amount of raid releases and changes they have had, I'm not sure there are many resources used there in the first place.

[supa suop.8026]

I used to raid a lot, but then I became very busy IRL and could not do it as much as I would have liked to. Then my interest was further shunned when I saw that the legendary armor I was working towards was another God-kitten trench coat( I main a thief). I have not raided since then though I may try again someday because some of the skins that anet adds to raids are very hard to resist. *glances at the Oblivion staff skin*

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"FrostDraco.8306" said:

> > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > > I will take your word for it on the, "because you asked for it," quote, but they said they intended GW 2 to have its own version of raids before the game launched.

> > No. They said that _dungeons_ were their version of raids. In the same way they said that damage/control/support (often available all at once in a single build) was their version of holy trinity. And as the vertical "vanity progression" was the GW2 version of the horizontal gear grind.

> >

> >

> >

>

> Dungeons failed, so this point is moot.

They didn't _fail_. They were _abandoned_. Big difference.

 

> @"Lunateric.3708" said:

> > @"Svarty.8019" said:

> > We can only hope this poll informs some design decisions.

>

> You do realize the developers for this game know exactly how many people raid, what bosses are killed and how many times and basically every bit of info you could get your hands on?

>

> And they still make raids, can you read between lines?

 

The ability of devs to ridiculously misread their own "metrics" is well known by now. Though i agree, this poll won't change anything.

[maxwelgm.4315]

> @"Lunateric.3708" said:

> > @"Svarty.8019" said:

> > We can only hope this poll informs some design decisions.

>

> You do realize the developers for this game know exactly how many people raid, what bosses are killed and how many times and basically every bit of info you could get your hands on?

>

> And they still make raids, can you read between lines?

 

They also have privileged information on WvW and look where it has gotten us. This means nothing, at best their overall info has been as good as these polls for what they're worth, and no blame on them either, people are hard as kitten to predict.

 

> @"FrostDraco.8306" said:

> > @"Chamelion.9536" said:

> > "Other" Seen far, far, FAR too many posts about the toxicity of having to be perfect, or otherwise 'git gud' before even getting into it. I'm a casual player who would love to delve into new content, but I want to only have fun, not work my kitten off for what little reward their may be. Did that with HoT masteries (LOL).

> >

> > C

>

> Implying HoT masteries were hard work. Delving is work.

>

> So when you say you 'would like to delve'. You are lying. Because if you wanted to delve into something you would put in the work to do so.

>

> If you are unwilling to work for something you want, then you never really wanted in the first place. You just say and 'think' you do.

 

It is a good thing the devs do not think like that. "If you are unwilling to work then you never wanted the job anyway!" is the epitome of hindsight; neither you nor me, and specially not Anet, know what is going on through other people's heads and how they face their wants. There is hardly a single one reason for a problem as complex as people not achieving something they want, and lack of wanting is certainly very down there on the list, contrary to the motivational stuff always thrown about. Anet knows this and has made a very diverse game with a lot of different content, and that can actually be enjoyed by many kinds and levels of players. Even if they failed to do this with Raids, have done it right on fractals. Or is it not a failure because they did on purpose? Regardless, it has nothing to do with people not "truly" wanting to do the content and not "truly" wanting the rewards. That would be like saying "No I know how you feel better than you and you're not really feeling this".

[Vulf.3098]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> They didn't _fail_. They were _abandoned_. Big difference.

>

 

They kinda did because that mess was so poorly designed I don't blame them for abandoning the content. What most likely happened was the amount of resources needed to fix them was better spent making new content entirely.

 

 

[IndigoSundown.5419]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"FrostDraco.8306" said:

> >

> > Dungeons failed, so this point is moot.

> They didn't _fail_. They were _abandoned_. Big difference.

 

Dungeons may have succeeded as content for players who do not care as much about the whole hard-instanced-MMO-content construct. That was not the design intent, though. Dungeons lacked the _need_ for coordination by skilled groups of players, which was the original intent. They were abandoned _because they failed_ at their intended purpose, to be the game's equivalent of raids.

[Taelac.7036]

Not yet, but interested and hoping to find a good training group soon.

[Dahkeus.8243]

I used to raid regularly, but haven’t touched anything after Xera since I took a long break from the game. I’ll be going back in with a group tonight and may start raising at least weekly, but we’ll see.

 

The fun of raids depends so much on the group you do them with.

 

For a group to be fun they not only need to be somewhat competent, but also need to be good people that can handle difficulty without losing their cool. Competency can generally be taught and gained over time with experience, but emotional maturity isn’t something people generally either have or don’t.

[STIHL.2489]

> @"Lunateric.3708" said:

> > @"Svarty.8019" said:

> > We can only hope this poll informs some design decisions.

>

> You do realize the developers for this game know exactly how many people raid, what bosses are killed and how many times and basically every bit of info you could get your hands on?

>

> And they still make raids, can you read between lines?

 

I am sure they have the numbers.. but what they don't have is the "why".

 

"Why do those people raid and these people don't?"

 

And any developer that is not asking that question is not invested into their work.