ReaverKane.7598 Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 > @"Fluffball.8307" said: > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > But what i asked was, are those people that harp about agony even interested in Fractals? You already said no. > > So if you're not interested in the content, why but in? > > Because I used to be, and would like to see the system replaced with something that isn't stupid. Also it's a discussion forum and I am pretty passionate about GW2. Sorry for talking about GW2, your majesty. I'll go clean a latrine now. > And you stopped why? If you already used to do T4's you should already have the AR, so it wasn't Agony that stopped you, since it's been integral to the whole fractal scene since it's inception. Maybe because they retired lvl 40 farms? Maybe because they made stuff like swampland into actual engaging fractals, that are challenging? I'm sorry but from all your posts, it transpires that you're not passionate about GW2. You're passionate about farming and getting all your shinnies. And when the game tells you "hey now, you have to actually learn mechanics to do this", you cry about it in the forums? I mean from the point you suggested that PvE have the same reward structure of PvP (as in participation prizes) that's all said. in PvP you don't even have to play, like Frost already said. That's why its full of toxic behaviours like AFKing, win trading, etc. Because you get the reward wether you play well or not. You might not get as good of a reward, but you get one, and of course people that just want the rewards without having to play will want that everywhere. That's why there's people afking the ppt in WvW as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffball.8307 Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > @"Fluffball.8307" said: > > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > > But what i asked was, are those people that harp about agony even interested in Fractals? You already said no. > > > So if you're not interested in the content, why but in? > > > > Because I used to be, and would like to see the system replaced with something that isn't stupid. Also it's a discussion forum and I am pretty passionate about GW2. Sorry for talking about GW2, your majesty. I'll go clean a latrine now. > > > > And you stopped why? If you already used to do T4's you should already have the AR, so it wasn't Agony that stopped you, since it's been integral to the whole fractal scene since it's inception. > Maybe because they retired lvl 40 farms? > Maybe because they made stuff like swampland into actual engaging fractals, that are challenging? > I'm sorry but from all your posts, it transpires that you're not passionate about GW2. You're passionate about farming and getting all your shinnies. And when the game tells you "hey now, you have to actually learn mechanics to do this", you cry about it in the forums? > I mean from the point you suggested that PvE have the same reward structure of PvP (as in participation prizes) that's all said. in PvP you don't even have to play, like Frost already said. That's why its full of toxic behaviours like AFKing, win trading, etc. Because you get the reward wether you play well or not. You might not get as good of a reward, but you get one, and of course people that just want the rewards without having to play will want that everywhere. That's why there's people afking the ppt in WvW as well. You pretty clearly have not read anything I wrote since you don't understand anything other than just randomly insulting me. Yes I had the AR and I deleted it because it's a bad system. No I do not need any of the rewards, yes I am capable of playing the content. Now since you are totally incapable of reading the discussion us adults are having, I'll restate this. Tell me why AR can't be an account bound system instead of requiring hundreds of gold to change build? It still keeps your noobs out and yet isn't an absolutely pointless grind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinceman.4572 Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 > @"Fluffball.8307" said: >Yes I had the AR and I deleted it because it's a bad system. The weirdest sentence I've read for a long time in this forum section. It makes no sense at all. Would have been better to start a petition on Reddit or here against agony and look for like-minded persons. I mean you already had one toon geared. According to your AP which are around 6k more than mine I guess you already had/have several classes in asc gear. From there it's a stone's throw away from getting the next 150 ARs - it's not a big investment since dailies + recs result in around 1 +9 infusion for free every day. Throwing away loved content like that I don't know man, I just can't believe that you are telling us the real truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffball.8307 Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 > @"Vinceman.4572" said: > > @"Fluffball.8307" said: > >Yes I had the AR and I deleted it because it's a bad system. > > The weirdest sentence I've read for a long time in this forum section. It makes no sense at all. Would have been better to start a petition on Reddit or here against agony and look for like-minded persons. I mean you already had one toon geared. According to your AP which are around 6k more than mine I guess you already had/have several classes in asc gear. From there it's a stone's throw away from getting the next 150 ARs - it's not a big investment since dailies + recs result in around 1 +9 infusion for free every day. > Throwing away loved content like that I don't know man, I just can't believe that you are telling us the real truth. > > I have a lot of ascended armor sets across my characters. I made the decision I would never play fractals again because I didn't like the system, and I wanted the extra stats for WvW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 > @"Fluffball.8307" said: > > @"Vinceman.4572" said: > > > @"Fluffball.8307" said: > > >Yes I had the AR and I deleted it because it's a bad system. > > > > The weirdest sentence I've read for a long time in this forum section. It makes no sense at all. Would have been better to start a petition on Reddit or here against agony and look for like-minded persons. I mean you already had one toon geared. According to your AP which are around 6k more than mine I guess you already had/have several classes in asc gear. From there it's a stone's throw away from getting the next 150 ARs - it's not a big investment since dailies + recs result in around 1 +9 infusion for free every day. > > Throwing away loved content like that I don't know man, I just can't believe that you are telling us the real truth. > > > > > > I have a lot of ascended armor sets across my characters. I made the decision I would never play fractals again because I didn't like the system, and I wanted the extra stats for WvW. I respect that, but it does not mean it's a bad system, even if you don't like it. It works for it's intended purpose, which is to make the higher tier content exclusive to those that want to invest into this content, To those that don't, the lower tiers remain open to them. Your decision to remove AR from your gear in lieu of more stats is fine, I did the same thing for my Ranger, +90 power +18 damage to guards in WvW, is sweet no doubt, but T1 fractals will always remain open to you to enjoy (just like I can do them on my ranger with her zero AR, if I so chose), just so you understand that at this point it's purely your choice to not to do content that has been made available to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunateric.3708 Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 > @"Fluffball.8307" said: > > @"Vinceman.4572" said: > > > @"Fluffball.8307" said: > > >Yes I had the AR and I deleted it because it's a bad system. > > > > The weirdest sentence I've read for a long time in this forum section. It makes no sense at all. Would have been better to start a petition on Reddit or here against agony and look for like-minded persons. I mean you already had one toon geared. According to your AP which are around 6k more than mine I guess you already had/have several classes in asc gear. From there it's a stone's throw away from getting the next 150 ARs - it's not a big investment since dailies + recs result in around 1 +9 infusion for free every day. > > Throwing away loved content like that I don't know man, I just can't believe that you are telling us the real truth. > > > > > > I have a lot of ascended armor sets across my characters. I made the decision I would never play fractals again because I didn't like the system, and I wanted the extra stats for WvW. You're willingly not playing content because of your personal reasons, that's far from a solid argument towards demonstrating AR is "a stupid system". If it makes you feel any better you can get 45 AR account wide with Deroir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffball.8307 Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > Your decision to remove AR from your gear in lieu of more stats is fine, I did the same thing for my Ranger, +90 power +18 damage to guards in WvW, is sweet no doubt, but T1 fractals will always remain open to you to enjoy (just like I can do them on my ranger with her zero AR, if I so chose), just so you understand that at this point it's purely your choice to not to do content that has been made available to you. Of course it's my choice, I don't want or expect access to T4 fractals. That's not what my posts are about. We're all going in circles though, and it doesn't even matter because the devs said they don't have any plans fix AR at this point. If fractals were redesigned from scratch, AR wouldn't exist or at least exist in a better way, but I don't expect anything to change now. We'll probably always have minor sigils as well. Maybe in 10 years there will be a GW3 and lessons will have been learned about this kind of stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linken.6345 Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 > @"Fluffball.8307" said: > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > Your decision to remove AR from your gear in lieu of more stats is fine, I did the same thing for my Ranger, +90 power +18 damage to guards in WvW, is sweet no doubt, but T1 fractals will always remain open to you to enjoy (just like I can do them on my ranger with her zero AR, if I so chose), just so you understand that at this point it's purely your choice to not to do content that has been made available to you. > > Of course it's my choice, I don't want or expect access to T4 fractals. That's not what my posts are about. We're all going in circles though, and it doesn't even matter because the devs said they don't have any plans fix AR at this point. If fractals were redesigned from scratch, AR wouldn't exist or at least exist in a better way, but I don't expect anything to change now. We'll probably always have minor sigils as well. Maybe in 10 years there will be a GW3 and lessons will have been learned about this kind of stuff. > > Well there is nothing to fix it is working as intented, for the minor runes you could go play the casino get a item that give you a sell merchant everywere or buy the permanent merchant from blt. Thats what I did and thank my lucky star every day since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffball.8307 Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 > @"Linken.6345" said: > > @"Fluffball.8307" said: > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > Your decision to remove AR from your gear in lieu of more stats is fine, I did the same thing for my Ranger, +90 power +18 damage to guards in WvW, is sweet no doubt, but T1 fractals will always remain open to you to enjoy (just like I can do them on my ranger with her zero AR, if I so chose), just so you understand that at this point it's purely your choice to not to do content that has been made available to you. > > > > Of course it's my choice, I don't want or expect access to T4 fractals. That's not what my posts are about. We're all going in circles though, and it doesn't even matter because the devs said they don't have any plans fix AR at this point. If fractals were redesigned from scratch, AR wouldn't exist or at least exist in a better way, but I don't expect anything to change now. We'll probably always have minor sigils as well. Maybe in 10 years there will be a GW3 and lessons will have been learned about this kind of stuff. > > > > > Well there is nothing to fix it is working as intented, for the minor runes you could go play the casino get a item that give you a sell merchant everywere or buy the permanent merchant from blt. > Thats what I did and thank my lucky star every day since. > Just about everything in the game is "working as intended" but a lot of it is far from perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nash.2681 Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 I have no problem with the concept of agony and I think it's an ok'ish gate for those who are dedicated enough to get over T1. On the other hand, I wish there was a way to make the AR count for the whole account, once one has a 150 AR toon. I geared my Guard 100% ascended and got him 150 AR long ago, yet it I can't motivate myself to gear up multiple chars that way esp. when it comes to condi builds since viper's gear is such a pain to get, esp. the trinkets. I'd rather have the possibility to spend some 10k relics and +1 infusions for something like the fractal pot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > Keep in mind, I only do T2 to T3 myself, even if I have a 150 AR, so I could do T4 if I wanted to, but I don't feel my build is optimal enough, and I would not have seen or realized that if I could have just walked in at T4, so I don't feel the whole "everyone should be able to do T4" and get the T4 loot. The reasonable rewards start at t3, but the difficulty difference between t3 and t4 is negligible - if you can run one, you can run the other. The main difficulty jump is from t2 to t3, so if anyone can do t3 consistently, there's no reason not to do t4. Well, beyond not having enough AR, of course. > @"CptAurellian.9537" said: > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > (and fractal reward levels are calculated around t4, not t1). > Are they? T1 rewards aren't that bad for content that's mindnumbingly easy and often soloable without the effort you had to put in for something like Arah solos. > Dungeon rewards were not calculated around arah (that was the main problem with arah actually), and definitely not around solo runs. > @"FrostDraco.8306" said: > Except that fractals has always had a bit of gear grind so there is major overlap. True, but at this time dugeons were quite active (and had a bigger population than fractals). Since then however dungeons have been visibly abandoned by the developers. Fractals now need to satisfy _both_ groups of players. Except, obviously, they don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinceman.4572 Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 > @"Astralporing.1957" said: The reasonable rewards start at t3, but the difficulty difference between t3 and t4 is negligible - if you can run one, you can run the other. The main difficulty jump is from t2 to t3, so if anyone can do t3 consistently, there's no reason not to do t4. That's definitely not true. Fractals in the range of level 50 to 60 are so much easier compared to most of the 90+. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReaverKane.7598 Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 > @"Nash.2681" said: > I have no problem with the concept of agony and I think it's an ok'ish gate for those who are dedicated enough to get over T1. On the other hand, I wish there was a way to make the AR count for the whole account, once one has a 150 AR toon. I geared my Guard 100% ascended and got him 150 AR long ago, yet it I can't motivate myself to gear up multiple chars that way esp. when it comes to condi builds since viper's gear is such a pain to get, esp. the trinkets. > I'd rather have the possibility to spend some 10k relics and +1 infusions for something like the fractal pot. Well, i've said it earlier it costs ~4 gold to remove all the infusions from your gear at most. Also ascended gear is universal, so if you have, lets say Viper's gear for your firebrand, you can switch it around to your warrior (and play condi BS), or your Revenant (and play condi Renegade). Of course if you want other classes, you'll have to get new ascended gear, but since PoF came out i've got 2 full sets of ascended armor on 2 toons from chests that dropped, and i still have a bunch of ascended gear chests. Ascended gear is actually even better than exotics if you want to change your stats, since you just need the **exotic** inscriptions/insignias, a couple other items, and you're set.> @"Fluffball.8307" said: > > @"Linken.6345" said: > > > @"Fluffball.8307" said: > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > Your decision to remove AR from your gear in lieu of more stats is fine, I did the same thing for my Ranger, +90 power +18 damage to guards in WvW, is sweet no doubt, but T1 fractals will always remain open to you to enjoy (just like I can do them on my ranger with her zero AR, if I so chose), just so you understand that at this point it's purely your choice to not to do content that has been made available to you. > > > > > > Of course it's my choice, I don't want or expect access to T4 fractals. That's not what my posts are about. We're all going in circles though, and it doesn't even matter because the devs said they don't have any plans fix AR at this point. If fractals were redesigned from scratch, AR wouldn't exist or at least exist in a better way, but I don't expect anything to change now. We'll probably always have minor sigils as well. Maybe in 10 years there will be a GW3 and lessons will have been learned about this kind of stuff. > > > > > > > > Well there is nothing to fix it is working as intented, for the minor runes you could go play the casino get a item that give you a sell merchant everywere or buy the permanent merchant from blt. > > Thats what I did and thank my lucky star every day since. > > > > Just about everything in the game is "working as intended" but a lot of it is far from perfect. In your opinion. > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > Keep in mind, I only do T2 to T3 myself, even if I have a 150 AR, so I could do T4 if I wanted to, but I don't feel my build is optimal enough, and I would not have seen or realized that if I could have just walked in at T4, so I don't feel the whole "everyone should be able to do T4" and get the T4 loot. > The reasonable rewards start at t3, but the difficulty difference between t3 and t4 is negligible - if you can run one, you can run the other. The main difficulty jump is from t2 to t3, so if anyone can do t3 consistently, there's no reason not to do t4. > Well, beyond not having enough AR, of course. > Not really T4 has that pesky third instability, which can alter things considerably. Also most fractals have extra mechanics at T4 that aren't present at T3 (extra adds in Molten boss, vanishing floor in SO, etc), and of course there's the increments of enemy stats. But the top third of T3 isn't that much diffifcult than the bottom third of T4, no. But there **IS** a non-negligible difference. > > @"CptAurellian.9537" said: > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > (and fractal reward levels are calculated around t4, not t1). > > Are they? T1 rewards aren't that bad for content that's mindnumbingly easy and often soloable without the effort you had to put in for something like Arah solos. > > > Dungeon rewards were not calculated around arah (that was the main problem with arah actually), and definitely not around solo runs. > Well, no one did Arah for rewards, that's for sure. > > @"FrostDraco.8306" said: > > Except that fractals has always had a bit of gear grind so there is major overlap. > True, but at this time dugeons were quite active (and had a bigger population than fractals). Since then however dungeons have been visibly abandoned by the developers. > > Fractals now need to satisfy _both_ groups of players. Except, obviously, they don't. Well... But is that inherent to fractals or the actual players? I mean, Fractal rewards, even at T1 are arguably superior to Dungeon rewards, and are faster to obtain as well. So you can say the problem doesn't fall onto the lack of rewards, but more onto player perception. Dungeons have a huge layer of flavour and story added to them being present in the actual living world (at least the entrance), also the whole multi-path explorable vs Story addes a different feel to Dungeons. Fractals are more "artificial" you go there from a Hub instead of an actual location, and a lot of them have nothing to do with anything present in the game world atm (like cliffside and Jade Maw), so it feels more like a game within a game (like Super Adventure Box) than something you can connect to. Then there's the levels thing. People always want the higher number, and when they find an obstacle to get that higher number, players will either work to overcome that obstacle (as in get more AR and ascended gear) or will get discouraged and not play that content. Of the later half, a few will simply adapt and will play the part they can, and eventually, gradually will start getting ascended stuff from fractal drops or other sources, and end up doing T4 over time. Others will simply disavow the whole system, because it's "unfair" to them. Some of these will also protest in the forums, because big meanie wants them to spend some gold on stuff that isn't gems and costumes so they can earn more gold and other stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > Keep in mind, I only do T2 to T3 myself, even if I have a 150 AR, so I could do T4 if I wanted to, but I don't feel my build is optimal enough, and I would not have seen or realized that if I could have just walked in at T4, so I don't feel the whole "everyone should be able to do T4" and get the T4 loot. > > The reasonable rewards start at t3, but the difficulty difference between t3 and t4 is negligible - if you can run one, you can run the other. The main difficulty jump is from t2 to t3, so if anyone can do t3 consistently, there's no reason not to do t4. > > Well, beyond not having enough AR, of course. > > > Not really T4 has that pesky third instability, which can alter things considerably. Also most fractals have extra mechanics at T4 that aren't present at T3 (extra adds in Molten boss, vanishing floor in SO, etc), and of course there's the increments of enemy stats. But the top third of T3 isn't that much difficult than the bottom third of T4, no. But there **IS** a non-negligible difference. > Yah. there are additional issues with trying to do T4, that is not there in T3, which makes the content harder, and every bit of sub-optimal your build is stats to really shine as you move up. This is the illusion that people that don't do fractals have, they think it's all the same.. it's not, not my a long shot. Even in the Tiers themselves there is difficulty scale, Fractal 52 is not as hard as fractal 72, even if they are technically the same fractal, things change as you move up, and to be honest, making that a slow progress with some gates, is not a bad thing at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReaverKane.7598 Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > Keep in mind, I only do T2 to T3 myself, even if I have a 150 AR, so I could do T4 if I wanted to, but I don't feel my build is optimal enough, and I would not have seen or realized that if I could have just walked in at T4, so I don't feel the whole "everyone should be able to do T4" and get the T4 loot. > > > The reasonable rewards start at t3, but the difficulty difference between t3 and t4 is negligible - if you can run one, you can run the other. The main difficulty jump is from t2 to t3, so if anyone can do t3 consistently, there's no reason not to do t4. > > > Well, beyond not having enough AR, of course. > > > > > Not really T4 has that pesky third instability, which can alter things considerably. Also most fractals have extra mechanics at T4 that aren't present at T3 (extra adds in Molten boss, vanishing floor in SO, etc), and of course there's the increments of enemy stats. But the top third of T3 isn't that much difficult than the bottom third of T4, no. But there **IS** a non-negligible difference. > > > > Yah. there are additional issues with trying to do T4, that is not there in T3, which makes the content harder, and every bit of sub-optimal your build is stats to really shine as you move up. This is the illusion that people that don't do fractals have, they think it's all the same.. it's not, not my a long shot. > > Even in the Tiers themselves there is difficulty scale, Fractal 52 is not as hard as fractal 72, even if they are technically the same fractal, things change as you move up, and to be honest, making that a slow progress with some gates, is not a bad thing at all. Exactly! That's why Agony is there, to slow down the pace of people, because if you go face first onto T4 (with or without AR) you'll get such a huge can of whoopass that you won't be playing the content ever again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > Keep in mind, I only do T2 to T3 myself, even if I have a 150 AR, so I could do T4 if I wanted to, but I don't feel my build is optimal enough, and I would not have seen or realized that if I could have just walked in at T4, so I don't feel the whole "everyone should be able to do T4" and get the T4 loot. > > > > The reasonable rewards start at t3, but the difficulty difference between t3 and t4 is negligible - if you can run one, you can run the other. The main difficulty jump is from t2 to t3, so if anyone can do t3 consistently, there's no reason not to do t4. > > > > Well, beyond not having enough AR, of course. > > > > > > > Not really T4 has that pesky third instability, which can alter things considerably. Also most fractals have extra mechanics at T4 that aren't present at T3 (extra adds in Molten boss, vanishing floor in SO, etc), and of course there's the increments of enemy stats. But the top third of T3 isn't that much difficult than the bottom third of T4, no. But there **IS** a non-negligible difference. > > > > > > > Yah. there are additional issues with trying to do T4, that is not there in T3, which makes the content harder, and every bit of sub-optimal your build is stats to really shine as you move up. This is the illusion that people that don't do fractals have, they think it's all the same.. it's not, not my a long shot. > > > > Even in the Tiers themselves there is difficulty scale, Fractal 52 is not as hard as fractal 72, even if they are technically the same fractal, things change as you move up, and to be honest, making that a slow progress with some gates, is not a bad thing at all. > > Exactly! That's why Agony is there, to slow down the pace of people, because if you go face first onto T4 (with or without AR) you'll get such a huge can of whoopass that you won't be playing the content ever again. Also jumping up too fast, does not give you the time to experience the various instabilities and issues around fractals. Going slow and needing AR makes it so you can learn how to deal with them as they come. It really is a great system that does it's intended job well. One of the best systems in the game really. I was very let down that Raids didn't mimic Fractals in that regard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReaverKane.7598 Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > Keep in mind, I only do T2 to T3 myself, even if I have a 150 AR, so I could do T4 if I wanted to, but I don't feel my build is optimal enough, and I would not have seen or realized that if I could have just walked in at T4, so I don't feel the whole "everyone should be able to do T4" and get the T4 loot. > > > > > The reasonable rewards start at t3, but the difficulty difference between t3 and t4 is negligible - if you can run one, you can run the other. The main difficulty jump is from t2 to t3, so if anyone can do t3 consistently, there's no reason not to do t4. > > > > > Well, beyond not having enough AR, of course. > > > > > > > > > Not really T4 has that pesky third instability, which can alter things considerably. Also most fractals have extra mechanics at T4 that aren't present at T3 (extra adds in Molten boss, vanishing floor in SO, etc), and of course there's the increments of enemy stats. But the top third of T3 isn't that much difficult than the bottom third of T4, no. But there **IS** a non-negligible difference. > > > > > > > > > > Yah. there are additional issues with trying to do T4, that is not there in T3, which makes the content harder, and every bit of sub-optimal your build is stats to really shine as you move up. This is the illusion that people that don't do fractals have, they think it's all the same.. it's not, not my a long shot. > > > > > > Even in the Tiers themselves there is difficulty scale, Fractal 52 is not as hard as fractal 72, even if they are technically the same fractal, things change as you move up, and to be honest, making that a slow progress with some gates, is not a bad thing at all. > > > > Exactly! That's why Agony is there, to slow down the pace of people, because if you go face first onto T4 (with or without AR) you'll get such a huge can of whoopass that you won't be playing the content ever again. > > Also jumping up too fast, does not give you the time to experience the various instabilities and issues around fractals. Going slow and needing AR makes it so you can learn how to deal with them as they come. > > It really is a great system that does it's intended job well. One of the best systems in the game really. I was very let down that Raids didn't mimic Fractals in that regard. Yeah, it would be nice if there was a "easy mode" Raid, but honestly, i get why they didn't do that, because it was HoT... HoT is not synonym with well thought out content. It doesn't help that Wing 1 isn't really the best starter friendly Wing. Wing 3 is much better for starting players, that Escort is easier than most T4 Fractals, and is a way to get people eased into Raids, introducing them to the masteries, and such. Wing 1 should have had a similar encounter at the beginning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > > > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > Keep in mind, I only do T2 to T3 myself, even if I have a 150 AR, so I could do T4 if I wanted to, but I don't feel my build is optimal enough, and I would not have seen or realized that if I could have just walked in at T4, so I don't feel the whole "everyone should be able to do T4" and get the T4 loot. > > > > > > The reasonable rewards start at t3, but the difficulty difference between t3 and t4 is negligible - if you can run one, you can run the other. The main difficulty jump is from t2 to t3, so if anyone can do t3 consistently, there's no reason not to do t4. > > > > > > Well, beyond not having enough AR, of course. > > > > > > > > > > > Not really T4 has that pesky third instability, which can alter things considerably. Also most fractals have extra mechanics at T4 that aren't present at T3 (extra adds in Molten boss, vanishing floor in SO, etc), and of course there's the increments of enemy stats. But the top third of T3 isn't that much difficult than the bottom third of T4, no. But there **IS** a non-negligible difference. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yah. there are additional issues with trying to do T4, that is not there in T3, which makes the content harder, and every bit of sub-optimal your build is stats to really shine as you move up. This is the illusion that people that don't do fractals have, they think it's all the same.. it's not, not my a long shot. > > > > > > > > Even in the Tiers themselves there is difficulty scale, Fractal 52 is not as hard as fractal 72, even if they are technically the same fractal, things change as you move up, and to be honest, making that a slow progress with some gates, is not a bad thing at all. > > > > > > Exactly! That's why Agony is there, to slow down the pace of people, because if you go face first onto T4 (with or without AR) you'll get such a huge can of whoopass that you won't be playing the content ever again. > > > > Also jumping up too fast, does not give you the time to experience the various instabilities and issues around fractals. Going slow and needing AR makes it so you can learn how to deal with them as they come. > > > > It really is a great system that does it's intended job well. One of the best systems in the game really. I was very let down that Raids didn't mimic Fractals in that regard. > > Yeah, it would be nice if there was a "easy mode" Raid, but honestly, i get why they didn't do that, because it was HoT... HoT is not synonym with well thought out content. > It doesn't help that Wing 1 isn't really the best starter friendly Wing. Wing 3 is much better for starting players, that Escort is easier than most T4 Fractals, and is a way to get people eased into Raids, introducing them to the masteries, and such. Wing 1 should have had a similar encounter at the beginning. I was not thinking "easy mode" more something like AR, just to let people know this is not a Pajama Party and they need to bring their A game and best characters. Which I think is kinda where things went a little wonky with Raids at the start to be honest. But now that you mention it, Tiers would have been sweet too. Imagine a T1 to T3 raid system. But T1 is more like a "Learn the Mechanic Mode", and does not reward anything raid specific (maybe LI and Mag shards so people an get their loot), but does not unlock the mastery line, collections, or title. But it makes it so you can get your feet wet, learn what to do, maybe even get some ascended gear from it to help outfit your character and such. And then at T2, that is when you unlock the "raid" stuff, like collections, mastery line, etc, and better loot of course. With T3 being.. well.. hard (AKA Challenge Mode).. but offering a lot more Loot and progress. Maybe even having it's own unique weapon skins like Fractals has Gold Fractal Skins and being the only tier that offers Raid Titles. That would have been good too. Hindsight is 20/20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReaverKane.7598 Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > > > > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > Keep in mind, I only do T2 to T3 myself, even if I have a 150 AR, so I could do T4 if I wanted to, but I don't feel my build is optimal enough, and I would not have seen or realized that if I could have just walked in at T4, so I don't feel the whole "everyone should be able to do T4" and get the T4 loot. > > > > > > > The reasonable rewards start at t3, but the difficulty difference between t3 and t4 is negligible - if you can run one, you can run the other. The main difficulty jump is from t2 to t3, so if anyone can do t3 consistently, there's no reason not to do t4. > > > > > > > Well, beyond not having enough AR, of course. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not really T4 has that pesky third instability, which can alter things considerably. Also most fractals have extra mechanics at T4 that aren't present at T3 (extra adds in Molten boss, vanishing floor in SO, etc), and of course there's the increments of enemy stats. But the top third of T3 isn't that much difficult than the bottom third of T4, no. But there **IS** a non-negligible difference. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yah. there are additional issues with trying to do T4, that is not there in T3, which makes the content harder, and every bit of sub-optimal your build is stats to really shine as you move up. This is the illusion that people that don't do fractals have, they think it's all the same.. it's not, not my a long shot. > > > > > > > > > > Even in the Tiers themselves there is difficulty scale, Fractal 52 is not as hard as fractal 72, even if they are technically the same fractal, things change as you move up, and to be honest, making that a slow progress with some gates, is not a bad thing at all. > > > > > > > > Exactly! That's why Agony is there, to slow down the pace of people, because if you go face first onto T4 (with or without AR) you'll get such a huge can of whoopass that you won't be playing the content ever again. > > > > > > Also jumping up too fast, does not give you the time to experience the various instabilities and issues around fractals. Going slow and needing AR makes it so you can learn how to deal with them as they come. > > > > > > It really is a great system that does it's intended job well. One of the best systems in the game really. I was very let down that Raids didn't mimic Fractals in that regard. > > > > Yeah, it would be nice if there was a "easy mode" Raid, but honestly, i get why they didn't do that, because it was HoT... HoT is not synonym with well thought out content. > > It doesn't help that Wing 1 isn't really the best starter friendly Wing. Wing 3 is much better for starting players, that Escort is easier than most T4 Fractals, and is a way to get people eased into Raids, introducing them to the masteries, and such. Wing 1 should have had a similar encounter at the beginning. > > I was not thinking "easy mode" more something like AR, just to let people know this is not a Pajama Party and they need to bring their A game and best characters. Which I think is kinda where things went a little wonky with Raids at the start to be honest. > > But now that you mention it, Tiers would have been sweet too. Imagine a T1 to T3 raid system. But T1 is more like a "Learn the Mechanic Mode", and does not reward anything raid specific (maybe LI and Mag shards so people an get their loot), but does not unlock the mastery line, collections, or title. But it makes it so you can get your feet wet, learn what to do, maybe even get some ascended gear from it to help outfit your character and such. And then at T2, that is when you unlock the "raid" stuff, like collections, mastery line, etc, and better loot of course. With T3 being.. well.. hard (AKA Challenge Mode).. but offering a lot more Loot and progress. Maybe even having it's own unique weapon skins like Fractals has Gold Fractal Skins and being the only tier that offers Raid Titles. > > That would have been good too. Hindsight is 20/20 > Raids do have a lot of unique weapons btw! Just from drops or Magnetic Shards, not really a collection like fractal weapons. Well, idk if a system like agony would help. Remember the outrage when devs said that ascended gear was recommended for raids... I'm guessing at that moment even if they had any other requirements planned they would have dropped them. But yeah, i get you! A lot of people assume that High tier content is the same as open world and dungeons. And it really isn't. I replied once to a thread about elitism inviting people to join my starter group. A guy pmed me and i invited him over. We were talking about how raids work, and how because of rage timers and such there's a dps requirement for raids, if you don't dps enough you'll most likely wipe. So he asked how you knew your DPS, i told him about ArcDPS and the golem. Then we went to the golem, he tried it a bit, and asked "does the boss just stand there?" And i said, well on most bosses someone is tanking, for example i play a chrono tank, so part of my job is to make sure that some bosses are where we want them to be so we can dps them faster. He immediately quit the guild and said he didn't even want to try raids, because it was too much mechanics and not enough flavour. I think he was expecting something like story mode dungeons... And that's the point... Too many people take things for granted and don't want to even try the harder content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JVJD.4912 Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 Its an unneeded gating mechanic that also functions as a gold sink to some extent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > > > > > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > Keep in mind, I only do T2 to T3 myself, even if I have a 150 AR, so I could do T4 if I wanted to, but I don't feel my build is optimal enough, and I would not have seen or realized that if I could have just walked in at T4, so I don't feel the whole "everyone should be able to do T4" and get the T4 loot. > > > > > > > > The reasonable rewards start at t3, but the difficulty difference between t3 and t4 is negligible - if you can run one, you can run the other. The main difficulty jump is from t2 to t3, so if anyone can do t3 consistently, there's no reason not to do t4. > > > > > > > > Well, beyond not having enough AR, of course. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not really T4 has that pesky third instability, which can alter things considerably. Also most fractals have extra mechanics at T4 that aren't present at T3 (extra adds in Molten boss, vanishing floor in SO, etc), and of course there's the increments of enemy stats. But the top third of T3 isn't that much difficult than the bottom third of T4, no. But there **IS** a non-negligible difference. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yah. there are additional issues with trying to do T4, that is not there in T3, which makes the content harder, and every bit of sub-optimal your build is stats to really shine as you move up. This is the illusion that people that don't do fractals have, they think it's all the same.. it's not, not my a long shot. > > > > > > > > > > > > Even in the Tiers themselves there is difficulty scale, Fractal 52 is not as hard as fractal 72, even if they are technically the same fractal, things change as you move up, and to be honest, making that a slow progress with some gates, is not a bad thing at all. > > > > > > > > > > Exactly! That's why Agony is there, to slow down the pace of people, because if you go face first onto T4 (with or without AR) you'll get such a huge can of whoopass that you won't be playing the content ever again. > > > > > > > > Also jumping up too fast, does not give you the time to experience the various instabilities and issues around fractals. Going slow and needing AR makes it so you can learn how to deal with them as they come. > > > > > > > > It really is a great system that does it's intended job well. One of the best systems in the game really. I was very let down that Raids didn't mimic Fractals in that regard. > > > > > > Yeah, it would be nice if there was a "easy mode" Raid, but honestly, i get why they didn't do that, because it was HoT... HoT is not synonym with well thought out content. > > > It doesn't help that Wing 1 isn't really the best starter friendly Wing. Wing 3 is much better for starting players, that Escort is easier than most T4 Fractals, and is a way to get people eased into Raids, introducing them to the masteries, and such. Wing 1 should have had a similar encounter at the beginning. > > > > I was not thinking "easy mode" more something like AR, just to let people know this is not a Pajama Party and they need to bring their A game and best characters. Which I think is kinda where things went a little wonky with Raids at the start to be honest. > > > > But now that you mention it, Tiers would have been sweet too. Imagine a T1 to T3 raid system. But T1 is more like a "Learn the Mechanic Mode", and does not reward anything raid specific (maybe LI and Mag shards so people an get their loot), but does not unlock the mastery line, collections, or title. But it makes it so you can get your feet wet, learn what to do, maybe even get some ascended gear from it to help outfit your character and such. And then at T2, that is when you unlock the "raid" stuff, like collections, mastery line, etc, and better loot of course. With T3 being.. well.. hard (AKA Challenge Mode).. but offering a lot more Loot and progress. Maybe even having it's own unique weapon skins like Fractals has Gold Fractal Skins and being the only tier that offers Raid Titles. > > > > That would have been good too. Hindsight is 20/20 > > > > Raids do have a lot of unique weapons btw! Just from drops or Magnetic Shards, not really a collection like fractal weapons. > Well, idk if a system like agony would help. Remember the outrage when devs said that ascended gear was recommended for raids... I'm guessing at that moment even if they had any other requirements planned they would have dropped them. No I don't remember that.. that was before my time, sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReaverKane.7598 Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > Keep in mind, I only do T2 to T3 myself, even if I have a 150 AR, so I could do T4 if I wanted to, but I don't feel my build is optimal enough, and I would not have seen or realized that if I could have just walked in at T4, so I don't feel the whole "everyone should be able to do T4" and get the T4 loot. > > > > > > > > > The reasonable rewards start at t3, but the difficulty difference between t3 and t4 is negligible - if you can run one, you can run the other. The main difficulty jump is from t2 to t3, so if anyone can do t3 consistently, there's no reason not to do t4. > > > > > > > > > Well, beyond not having enough AR, of course. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not really T4 has that pesky third instability, which can alter things considerably. Also most fractals have extra mechanics at T4 that aren't present at T3 (extra adds in Molten boss, vanishing floor in SO, etc), and of course there's the increments of enemy stats. But the top third of T3 isn't that much difficult than the bottom third of T4, no. But there **IS** a non-negligible difference. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yah. there are additional issues with trying to do T4, that is not there in T3, which makes the content harder, and every bit of sub-optimal your build is stats to really shine as you move up. This is the illusion that people that don't do fractals have, they think it's all the same.. it's not, not my a long shot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even in the Tiers themselves there is difficulty scale, Fractal 52 is not as hard as fractal 72, even if they are technically the same fractal, things change as you move up, and to be honest, making that a slow progress with some gates, is not a bad thing at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly! That's why Agony is there, to slow down the pace of people, because if you go face first onto T4 (with or without AR) you'll get such a huge can of whoopass that you won't be playing the content ever again. > > > > > > > > > > Also jumping up too fast, does not give you the time to experience the various instabilities and issues around fractals. Going slow and needing AR makes it so you can learn how to deal with them as they come. > > > > > > > > > > It really is a great system that does it's intended job well. One of the best systems in the game really. I was very let down that Raids didn't mimic Fractals in that regard. > > > > > > > > Yeah, it would be nice if there was a "easy mode" Raid, but honestly, i get why they didn't do that, because it was HoT... HoT is not synonym with well thought out content. > > > > It doesn't help that Wing 1 isn't really the best starter friendly Wing. Wing 3 is much better for starting players, that Escort is easier than most T4 Fractals, and is a way to get people eased into Raids, introducing them to the masteries, and such. Wing 1 should have had a similar encounter at the beginning. > > > > > > I was not thinking "easy mode" more something like AR, just to let people know this is not a Pajama Party and they need to bring their A game and best characters. Which I think is kinda where things went a little wonky with Raids at the start to be honest. > > > > > > But now that you mention it, Tiers would have been sweet too. Imagine a T1 to T3 raid system. But T1 is more like a "Learn the Mechanic Mode", and does not reward anything raid specific (maybe LI and Mag shards so people an get their loot), but does not unlock the mastery line, collections, or title. But it makes it so you can get your feet wet, learn what to do, maybe even get some ascended gear from it to help outfit your character and such. And then at T2, that is when you unlock the "raid" stuff, like collections, mastery line, etc, and better loot of course. With T3 being.. well.. hard (AKA Challenge Mode).. but offering a lot more Loot and progress. Maybe even having it's own unique weapon skins like Fractals has Gold Fractal Skins and being the only tier that offers Raid Titles. > > > > > > That would have been good too. Hindsight is 20/20 > > > > > > > Raids do have a lot of unique weapons btw! Just from drops or Magnetic Shards, not really a collection like fractal weapons. > > Well, idk if a system like agony would help. Remember the outrage when devs said that ascended gear was recommended for raids... I'm guessing at that moment even if they had any other requirements planned they would have dropped them. > > No I don't remember that.. that was before my time, sorry. That was just before HoT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > > Keep in mind, I only do T2 to T3 myself, even if I have a 150 AR, so I could do T4 if I wanted to, but I don't feel my build is optimal enough, and I would not have seen or realized that if I could have just walked in at T4, so I don't feel the whole "everyone should be able to do T4" and get the T4 loot. > > > > > > > > > > The reasonable rewards start at t3, but the difficulty difference between t3 and t4 is negligible - if you can run one, you can run the other. The main difficulty jump is from t2 to t3, so if anyone can do t3 consistently, there's no reason not to do t4. > > > > > > > > > > Well, beyond not having enough AR, of course. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not really T4 has that pesky third instability, which can alter things considerably. Also most fractals have extra mechanics at T4 that aren't present at T3 (extra adds in Molten boss, vanishing floor in SO, etc), and of course there's the increments of enemy stats. But the top third of T3 isn't that much difficult than the bottom third of T4, no. But there **IS** a non-negligible difference. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yah. there are additional issues with trying to do T4, that is not there in T3, which makes the content harder, and every bit of sub-optimal your build is stats to really shine as you move up. This is the illusion that people that don't do fractals have, they think it's all the same.. it's not, not my a long shot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even in the Tiers themselves there is difficulty scale, Fractal 52 is not as hard as fractal 72, even if they are technically the same fractal, things change as you move up, and to be honest, making that a slow progress with some gates, is not a bad thing at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly! That's why Agony is there, to slow down the pace of people, because if you go face first onto T4 (with or without AR) you'll get such a huge can of whoopass that you won't be playing the content ever again. > > > > > > > > > > > > Also jumping up too fast, does not give you the time to experience the various instabilities and issues around fractals. Going slow and needing AR makes it so you can learn how to deal with them as they come. > > > > > > > > > > > > It really is a great system that does it's intended job well. One of the best systems in the game really. I was very let down that Raids didn't mimic Fractals in that regard. > > > > > > > > > > Yeah, it would be nice if there was a "easy mode" Raid, but honestly, i get why they didn't do that, because it was HoT... HoT is not synonym with well thought out content. > > > > > It doesn't help that Wing 1 isn't really the best starter friendly Wing. Wing 3 is much better for starting players, that Escort is easier than most T4 Fractals, and is a way to get people eased into Raids, introducing them to the masteries, and such. Wing 1 should have had a similar encounter at the beginning. > > > > > > > > I was not thinking "easy mode" more something like AR, just to let people know this is not a Pajama Party and they need to bring their A game and best characters. Which I think is kinda where things went a little wonky with Raids at the start to be honest. > > > > > > > > But now that you mention it, Tiers would have been sweet too. Imagine a T1 to T3 raid system. But T1 is more like a "Learn the Mechanic Mode", and does not reward anything raid specific (maybe LI and Mag shards so people an get their loot), but does not unlock the mastery line, collections, or title. But it makes it so you can get your feet wet, learn what to do, maybe even get some ascended gear from it to help outfit your character and such. And then at T2, that is when you unlock the "raid" stuff, like collections, mastery line, etc, and better loot of course. With T3 being.. well.. hard (AKA Challenge Mode).. but offering a lot more Loot and progress. Maybe even having it's own unique weapon skins like Fractals has Gold Fractal Skins and being the only tier that offers Raid Titles. > > > > > > > > That would have been good too. Hindsight is 20/20 > > > > > > > > > > Raids do have a lot of unique weapons btw! Just from drops or Magnetic Shards, not really a collection like fractal weapons. > > > Well, idk if a system like agony would help. Remember the outrage when devs said that ascended gear was recommended for raids... I'm guessing at that moment even if they had any other requirements planned they would have dropped them. > > > > No I don't remember that.. that was before my time, sorry. > > That was just before HoT. I stated around then, but I don't recall the outrage, Seems silly to me to say "This is our hardest most challenging content" but you know, come as you are, any gear should do, Just saying on that. No wonder they ended up being such a drama fest.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > Yah. there are additional issues with trying to do T4, that is not there in T3, which makes the content harder, and every bit of sub-optimal your build is stats to really shine as you move up. This is the illusion that people that don't do fractals have, they think it's all the same.. it's not, not my a long shot. I have been actually doing fractals a lot (though slowed down lately due to the new ones being highly unappealing to me), so i am _not_ basing this on hearsay. > > Even in the Tiers themselves there is difficulty scale, Fractal 52 is not as hard as fractal 72, even if they are technically the same fractal, things change as you move up, and to be honest, making that a slow progress with some gates, is not a bad thing at all. Yeah, fractal 52 is not as hard as fractal 72, but the difficulty jump is so low, that the instabilities will matter far more. There were (and still are) cases where you'd rather pick a higher-floor version over lower-floor one because it would have a more favourable instability set. Basically, the only problem in making the jump to t4 is when you're already struggling at t3. In general t3 is hard enough that if you can manage it, you're already good enough for t4's, because you have already good enough skillwise, and have grasped all the critical points of that specific fractal. Those that cannot pass that hurdle will be limited not to t3, but to t1-t2. And not because of agony. (well, in general anyway. the actual outcome can be somewhat different depending on a specific fractal map, as their difficulty is not equal, nor is the increase in it over the levels) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > Yah. there are additional issues with trying to do T4, that is not there in T3, which makes the content harder, and every bit of sub-optimal your build is stats to really shine as you move up. This is the illusion that people that don't do fractals have, they think it's all the same.. it's not, not my a long shot. > I have been actually doing fractals a lot (though slowed down lately due to the new ones being highly unappealing to me), so i am _not_ basing this on hearsay. > > > > > Even in the Tiers themselves there is difficulty scale, Fractal 52 is not as hard as fractal 72, even if they are technically the same fractal, things change as you move up, and to be honest, making that a slow progress with some gates, is not a bad thing at all. > Yeah, fractal 52 is not as hard as fractal 72, but the difficulty jump is so low, that the instabilities will matter far more. There were (and still are) cases where you'd rather pick a higher-floor version over lower-floor one because it would have a more favourable instability set. > > Basically, the only problem in making the jump to t4 is when you're already struggling at t3. In general t3 is hard enough that if you can manage it, you're already good enough for t4's, because you have already good enough skillwise, and have grasped all the critical points of that specific fractal. Those that cannot pass that hurdle will be limited not to t3, but to t1-t2. And not because of agony. > The thing here is without something like AR, no one would stop and progress though the fractal levels to discover where their skill level stops, and we know it, they would all rush to T4, and either demand that T4 be made easier, or that they be carried, just like what happened with Raids and Dungeons. AR has allowed fractals to avoid that problem, so it's doing it's job perfectly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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