Deadeye Specialization Updates for the Path of Fire Launch

[Zalavaaris.5329]

If it was so bad to use rifle 4 why didn't you just ya know.... buff it? It's damage and lack of aoe will keep us from using rifle unless we are talking the open world silverwaste farm meta.

[Link.1049]

Excited... and apprehensive about the new deadeye spec... especially after reading the other spec updates. We'll see how it pans out over the next few weeks.

[Warrost.4895]

At least Arenanet stays the same.

Ignoring the community, literally having no clue what is wrong and how to fix.

Thanks for nothing.

[TwiceDead.1963]

Hah... An _eye,_ I get it.

 

As for the update.. Alright. I'll have a run with it, see what It can do, but I am not exactly encouraged by these changes, even if there is some logic to it...

 

Three-Round-Burst really overshadowed Death's Judgement most of the time. I didn't expect this to be the solution though. I'd look at the cast-times, damage and/or projectile speeds for DJ, or make Kneel a more fluid ability to use, for why it's so undesirable compared to TRB... But I guess lowering TRB's damage output is easier.

 

Oh well. Not like I have to actually _use_ Rifle if shit goes south.

 

 

[The Mechanic.3567]

Hey ANET dev's,

 

im just curious as to why you didnt listen to the feedback you got from your players, or if you are planning on making the changes we have suggested (such as the movement cancels crouch suggestion) why keep us in the dark about it? let it be known you have heard our complaints and that for one reason or another you havent decided to change that yet. communication is key to good relationships and your tarnishing your relationship with your customers by suggesting that your listening to us with a beta, then not telling us why none of our suggestions made it into the first cut of refinements. honestly the whole spec feels clunky and unpolished. id at least like to hear that it was intentional for one reason or another.

[Razor.9872]

> @Paulie.6215 said:

> 3 bug fixes and a 16% nerf on TRB.

>

> All other classes received , for the most part, SEVERAL updates and thieves get this?

>

> Here's to hoping thieves don't become an afterthought........again.

>

> All in all, **_not_** happy at all.

 

Warrior and Ranger are about in the same boat.

[Zenith.7301]

> @Paulie.6215 said:

> 3 bug fixes and a 16% nerf on TRB.

>

> All other classes received , for the most part, SEVERAL updates and thieves get this?

>

> Here's to hoping thieves don't become an afterthought........again.

>

> All in all, **_not_** happy at all.

 

Necros who could already barely generate enough life force for shades got costs increased on shades, and barrier nerfed even though its a crappier aegis in PvE.

 

Revenant F skills still cost metric tons of energy and do nothing worth 35 energy. Shortbow still hits for less than 1/5 of what deadeye rifle does.

 

Mirage's only good ambush skill was nerfed and they received a bunch of useless updates.

[Warrost.4895]

> @"The Mechanic.3567" said:

> Hey ANET dev's,

>

> im just curious as to why you didnt listen to the feedback you got from your players, or if you are planning on making the changes we have suggested (such as the movement cancels crouch suggestion) why keep us in the dark about it? let it be known you have heard our complaints and that for one reason or another you havent decided to change that yet. communication is key to good relationships and your tarnishing your relationship with your customers by suggesting that your listening to us with a beta, then not telling us why none of our suggestions made it into the first cut of refinements. honestly the whole spec feels clunky and unpolished. id at least like to hear that it was intentional for one reason or another.

 

Anet doesn't answer. They haven't in years.

[Gaile Gray.6029]

Hey Guys,

 

For reasons I don't understand, Karl's posts are not currently flagged as officially being "ArenaNet staff." However, I can assure you that Karl is 100% legitimate, and his posts do represent those of a staff member.

 

I tried a tweak and it still didn't add the ArenaNet red banner, so I'll be looking into this tomorrow. But in the meantime, Karl's the real deal. :+1:

[Poki.8235]

> @Elxdark.9702 said:

> is that it? wow I didn't expect so much but this is pretty sad.

>

> Did you guys actually read the feedback?

>

> * malice generation rate

> * mark cast time

> * cantrip cd reduce

> * remove kneel by moving your character

>

> I'm looking forward to changes for core/daredevil because I'm so disappointed right now with the changes for Deadeye, if you see every other elite spec update thread they all got a lot of changes instead of bug fixes.

 

I don't know if cancelling Kneel by moving is a good idea, because of the fact that you can dodge without interrupting kneeling. It might be too easy to accidentally cancel Kneel when you just wanted to direct your dodge somewhere other then backwards.

 

I'm definitely with everyone that wants cast time on Mark removed though. That thing is the worst feeling gameplay I had ever since Revealed was changed in PvE to 4 seconds and broke the D/D Backstab combo fluidity back in the day. (not counting really bad Daredevil dodge implementation in the betas since that was completely fixed and polished in later betas and release)

[Zigity.9685]

I was hoping at least for the change in color/icon for kneel skills, per suggestion by many players.

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

> @Razor.9872 said:

> > @Paulie.6215 said:

> > 3 bug fixes and a 16% nerf on TRB.

> >

> > All other classes received , for the most part, SEVERAL updates and thieves get this?

> >

> > Here's to hoping thieves don't become an afterthought........again.

> >

> > All in all, **_not_** happy at all.

>

> Warrior and Ranger are about in the same boat.

 

Take a look at Scourge.

 

Honestly, the QQ that happens after every patch change is so immature and yet so hilarious. _ANet hates my class_ QQ on every. Single. Sub-forum. lol

[Warrost.4895]

> @"Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582" said:

> > @Razor.9872 said:

> > > @Paulie.6215 said:

> > > 3 bug fixes and a 16% nerf on TRB.

> > >

> > > All other classes received , for the most part, SEVERAL updates and thieves get this?

> > >

> > > Here's to hoping thieves don't become an afterthought........again.

> > >

> > > All in all, **_not_** happy at all.

> >

> > Warrior and Ranger are about in the same boat.

>

> Take a look at Scourge.

>

> Honestly, the QQ that happens after every patch change is so immature and yet so hilarious. _ANet hates my class_ QQ on every. Single. Sub-forum. lol

 

Tbh zero percent of the issues of deadeye were addressed, while for example mirage got very much.

[Arcaedus.7290]

> @Elxdark.9702 said:

> * remove kneel by moving your character

 

Would have really loved to see this change in particular. It's a change that many may not like (since they'd accidentally interrupt their kneel a lot at first) but that can very easily be adapted to.

 

 

[Brutaly.6257]

Good changes on the elite that was the most polished one during beta.

 

Karl! I know you got a lot negative critique (by me and others) for the DragnoHunter so now its time to give som positivew feedback.

Deadeye do offer a very different experience compared to the vanilla Thief and still it is a Thief. Job well done.

 

On friday night i will go into wvw and start sniping.

[lmaogg.7325]

> @Elxdark.9702 said:

> * remove kneel by moving your character

 

THIS. Please do it. The current state is very unresponsive for a hit and run class.

 

 

 

[messiah.1908]

the only thing sniper need its unblockable ability. atm pvp sniper will be hard to use in mid high tier. but we could see d/p deadeye with 15%+21% dmg buff alongside quickness burst

[Robert Gee.9246]

> @"The Mechanic.3567" said:

> Hey ANET dev's,

>

> im just curious as to why you didnt listen to the feedback you got from your players, or if you are planning on making the changes we have suggested (such as the movement cancels crouch suggestion) why keep us in the dark about it? let it be known you have heard our complaints and that for one reason or another you havent decided to change that yet. communication is key to good relationships and your tarnishing your relationship with your customers by suggesting that your listening to us with a beta, then not telling us why none of our suggestions made it into the first cut of refinements. honestly the whole spec feels clunky and unpolished. id at least like to hear that it was intentional for one reason or another.

 

So I was hesitating to respond to this since it's pretty late, but I think it's important for us to be clear on a few of these points.

 

We do read a lot of the feedback on these forums, but *listening to feedback is not the same as acting on feedback*. Additionally *we do not have time to respond to every post on the forum*. I'm responding to this on my own time after work and the reason we've actually had time to respond today to your replies is because we are in a "calm before the storm" situation right before the game launches. I don't expect that we'll have nearly as much time after the 22nd.

 

I think we can all agree that communication is important, but we can't spend our time here promising you that we are listening when we should be working to improve the game.

 

Okay now that that's out of the way here are a few thoughts:

* Cast time on Mark - Marking a target is intended as a commitment, and the added power of malice plus the refresh ability on kill afforded to Deadeye means that that some power balance needed to be made elsewhere.

* Moving Breaks Kneel - Kneel is intended to be a mode that requires forethought and planning, but we want to allow you to dodge roll when attacks come in. There are players that use doubletap to roll, so movement breaking kneel is not an option.

* Malice Generation Rate - Speed of Malice generation is something that ties very closely with Deadeye's power. We'd like to watch it more before making changes to it.

[Warrost.4895]

> @messiah.1908 said:

> the only thing sniper need its unblockable ability. atm pvp sniper will be hard to use in mid high tier. but we could see d/p deadeye with 15%+21% dmg buff alongside quickness burst

 

Deadeye will be good at roleplaying and stomp new players.

Beside that deadeye offers nothing viable for high pvp/every other playmode with minmax attitude.

[Nitron.6405]

I'm incredibly disappointed to hear this. There was a lot of good feedback that came out of the beta and it _appears_ as though Anet has ignored all of it. **I can only hope this is because they couldn't get everything fixed in time for launch, and that this is only a _temporary_ solution.** Deadeye was 90% of the reason I purchased the expansion (Ultimate Edition), and seeing a nerf to Deadeye's already lack of DPS with rifle is quite unsettling. I crafted The Predator for this.

 

As a final note to Anet: _please_, _**please**_, **PLEASE** pay close attention to the feedback for Deadeye after PoF launches. We only complain because we care.

 

Here's my previous feedback from the beta: https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/professions/thief/Deadeye-Feedback-from-a-Veteran-Thief/first#post6714623

[Poki.8235]

> @"Robert Gee.9246" said:

> > @"The Mechanic.3567" said:

> > Hey ANET dev's,

> >

> > im just curious as to why you didnt listen to the feedback you got from your players, or if you are planning on making the changes we have suggested (such as the movement cancels crouch suggestion) why keep us in the dark about it? let it be known you have heard our complaints and that for one reason or another you havent decided to change that yet. communication is key to good relationships and your tarnishing your relationship with your customers by suggesting that your listening to us with a beta, then not telling us why none of our suggestions made it into the first cut of refinements. honestly the whole spec feels clunky and unpolished. id at least like to hear that it was intentional for one reason or another.

>

> So I was hesitating to respond to this since it's pretty late, but I think it's important for us to be clear on a few of these points.

>

> We do read a lot of the feedback on these forums, but *listening to feedback is not the same as acting on feedback*. Additionally *we do not have time to respond to every post on the forum*. I'm responding to this on my own time after work and the reason we've actually had time to respond today to your replies is because we are in a "calm before the storm" situation right before the game launches. I don't expect that we'll have nearly as much time after the 22nd.

>

> I think we can all agree that communication is important, but we can't spend our time here promising you that we are listening when we should be working to improve the game.

>

> Okay now that that's out of the way here are a few thoughts:

> * Cast time on Mark - Marking a target is intended as a commitment, and the added power of malice plus the refresh ability on kill afforded to Deadeye means that that some power balance needed to be made elsewhere.

> * Moving Breaks Kneel - Kneel is intended to be a mode that requires forethought and planning, but we want to allow you to dodge roll when attacks come in. There are players that use doubletap to roll, so movement breaking kneel is not an option.

> * Malice Generation Rate - Speed of Malice generation is something that ties very closely with Deadeye's power. We'd like to watch it more before making changes to it.

 

Thank you for the reply Robert. It's very appreciated. I have to challenge the opinion that a short cast time is a commitment. Certainly, with the Mark refreshing on every kill being a minor trait things have to be balanced around that for the scenario that a group of weak mobs is on the other side of the barrel and you abuse that, but I think it should be balanced elsewhere (other then cast time). Imagine if Reaper shroud had a cast time, but Necromancer Shroud didn't. It would feel really bad, and that was the feeling I had playing the beta. Stolen skills already have an expiration date when the mark goes away (which also feels weird, but I got used to it unlike the cast time).

[lmaogg.7325]

> @"Robert Gee.9246" said:

> * Moving Breaks Kneel - Kneel is intended to be a mode that requires forethought and planning, but we want to allow you to dodge roll when attacks come in. There are players that use doubletap to roll, so movement breaking kneel is not an option.

 

Rip. Guess that's 1 legit reason in term of design.

But still...

 

 

[Nitron.6405]

> @Poki.8235 said:

>

> I don't know if cancelling Kneel by moving is a good idea, because of the fact that you can dodge without interrupting kneeling. It might be too easy to accidentally cancel Kneel when you just wanted to direct your dodge somewhere other then backwards.

>

> I'm definitely with everyone that wants cast time on Mark removed though. That thing is the worst feeling gameplay I had ever since Revealed was changed in PvE to 4 seconds and broke the D/D Backstab combo fluidity back in the day. (not counting really bad Daredevil dodge implementation in the betas since that was completely fixed and polished in later betas and release)

 

Couldn't agree more. Mechanically, using the movement keys to break kneel is a terrible decision since you wouldn't be able to direct your dodge rolls. After playing for hours in the beta all I can say to the people complaining is 'git gud'. Using skill 5 to break kneel isn't a game breaking mechanic, but rather something you simply need to get used to as a player. I had no problem with it after taking the time to actually practice.

 

When it comes to the Mark cast time it's the same situation as the 'HoT Beta Daredevil Dodges' in that it feels incredibly clunky to play for no good reason whatsoever.

I only hope Anet actually listens to the feedback surrounding the issue and does something to resolve the problem.

 

If the source of the problem is the ability to spam mark when fighting a group of weak enemies, then simply replace the cast time with the same timed cooldown. That way there's the same delay between mark uses, however it doesn't break the flow of the gameplay because you're not essentially dazed for half a second while you 'charge' your mark.

[Nitron.6405]

> @"Robert Gee.9246" said:

> So I was hesitating to respond to this since it's pretty late, but I think it's important for us to be clear on a few of these points.

>

> We do read a lot of the feedback on these forums, but *listening to feedback is not the same as acting on feedback*. Additionally *we do not have time to respond to every post on the forum*. I'm responding to this on my own time after work and the reason we've actually had time to respond today to your replies is because we are in a "calm before the storm" situation right before the game launches. I don't expect that we'll have nearly as much time after the 22nd.

>

> I think we can all agree that communication is important, but we can't spend our time here promising you that we are listening when we should be working to improve the game.

>

> Okay now that that's out of the way here are a few thoughts:

> * Cast time on Mark - Marking a target is intended as a commitment, and the added power of malice plus the refresh ability on kill afforded to Deadeye means that that some power balance needed to be made elsewhere.

> * Moving Breaks Kneel - Kneel is intended to be a mode that requires forethought and planning, but we want to allow you to dodge roll when attacks come in. There are players that use doubletap to roll, so movement breaking kneel is not an option.

> * Malice Generation Rate - Speed of Malice generation is something that ties very closely with Deadeye's power. We'd like to watch it more before making changes to it.

 

Thanks for the effort made to clarify the decisions.

 

However, I believe this would be the ideal solution for Mark in terms of both balance and fluidity of gameplay:

> @Nitron.6405 said:

> If the source of the problem is the ability to spam mark when fighting a group of weak enemies, then simply replace the cast time with the same timed cooldown. That way there's the same delay between mark uses, however it doesn't break the flow of the gameplay because you're not essentially dazed for half a second while you 'charge' your mark.

 

 

[Mil.3562]

> @Ballads.2509 said:

> > @"Karl McLain.5604" said:

> > Hiya scoundrels!

> > (excluding core/daredevil updates)

>

> Uh why does this line have me a little concerned? Please tell me its not that core thief or Daredevil getting changed (aka nerfed) to make Deadeye look better?

 

Why not? Since one of DeadEye skills gets a 16% nerf, I bet core thief and DareDevil will get their shares too, probably at least a 20% nerf just to make DE still stronger.