Current Barrier is TOO OP

[Shadowcat.2680]

> @"Sigmoid.7082" said:

> > @"Shadowcat.2680" said:

> > > @"Sigmoid.7082" said:

> > > Barrier is worse than standard shroud of necro or reaper when it comes to damage mitigation as well since they both have an innate -50% damage to every type of incoming damage including fall damage.

> > >

> > > The current implementation is also less powerful in the sense that granting yourself more barrier doesn't refresh the old. This means a group of stacked scourge in some games modes don't run around with permanent +50%no shield. Also means that in classes that grant themselves a tiny bit of barrier that recieving more barrier doesn't allow them to maintain high amount of it. Because if this it also makes adding more sources if barrier into the game on other classes without it blowing out of proportion easier.

> > >

> > > It's also far better as a support mechanic which is one of the aspects of scourge and a potential build path.

> > >

> > > I feel this change made barrier as a mechanic better, more balanced, easier to balance each skill and far more flexible for implementation amoung other things

> >

> > Reaper shroud is inferior to a scrouge's barriers in damage mitigation. Once a reader's shroud has been burned off (pretty easy to do considering the 5% passive drain), the reaper is left w/o shroud and w/ inferior tools for regaining life force. Scrouge has an easier time regaining life force in a fight and will be continuing to apply barriers long after a reaper has been left w/o its shroud.

>

> Reapers have far more LF gain than any other necro spec.

 

Nothing from reaper compares with the ten percent life force gain available to scrouges every twenty seconds. Blighter's Boon generates more life force with enough boons, but a reaper's consumption of life force far outstrips that of a scourge. Defensively, barriers are superior to reaper shroud.

[Patrick.2987]

I think scourge should either provide good support via barrier and mightstacking, therefore conditions on f1-f5 need to be removed, while f5 barrier needs to be spread between teammembers aswell. If it is supposed to be a condition dmg spec, they need to change barrier and create it like old deathshroud. Enable utilities while having barrier and no heal while under effects of barrier. If they want to leave both options they can massively reduce base barrier value and increase the scaling with healingpower by alot.

[Zero.3871]

> @"ZombieSlayeR.8702" said:

> > @"Zero.3871" said:

>

> > bs, scourge without support is ez kill for every range and high mobility class.

>

> Yeah whats the point ?

> With support it literally dominates everything ... weve had that for ages with condi reaper and everyone cried for nerfs.

> But now its different rite ? x)

 

so you want that scourge get nerfed because firebrand and eles are good supporter? thats absurd. you cant nerf a class because of other classes strenghts. thats the same if you would nerf warrior because ele can good support him.

 

[Zero.3871]

> @"Patrick.2987" said:

> I think scourge should either provide good support via barrier and mightstacking, therefore conditions on f1-f5 need to be removed, while f5 barrier needs to be spread between teammembers aswell. If it is supposed to be a condition dmg spec, they need to change barrier and create it like old deathshroud. Enable utilities while having barrier and no heal while under effects of barrier. If they want to leave both options they can massively reduce base barrier value and increase the scaling with healingpower by alot.

 

1.)the problem on your suggestion is, that scourge is not the only class with barrier. ele have it too. so your suggestion would effect ele too.

2.) barrier is way weaker than shroud. scourge didnt get any defense mechanic in addition to barrier, so you cant transform it in the way shroud worked, because the sustain of scourge would be nonexistence.

 

[Crinn.7864]

> @"Zero.3871" said:

> > @"ZombieSlayeR.8702" said:

> > > @"Zero.3871" said:

> >

> > > bs, scourge without support is ez kill for every range and high mobility class.

> >

> > Yeah whats the point ?

> > With support it literally dominates everything ... weve had that for ages with condi reaper and everyone cried for nerfs.

> > But now its different rite ? x)

>

> so you want that scourge get nerfed because firebrand and eles are good supporter? thats absurd. you cant nerf a class because of other classes strenghts. thats the same if you would nerf warrior because ele can good support him.

>

 

If all support classes where deleted from the game, Scourge would still be meta. You don't need a support for scourge to dominate a fight, although a support does augment a scourge to a extreme degree.

Fun fact: In tournaments is fairly common for Scourges to be rotated independent of their team's support.

[Anchoku.8142]

1. Scourge barrier can easily be tuned by adjusting LF cost so that is no need to further complicate things by creating skills that bypass the +health that barriers apply.

 

2. PvE support-Scourge does not need a dps reduction because the more barrier support needed by your group, the more LF Scourge requires. Scourge dps drops dramatically when a player is forced to focus on increased LF generation, nevermind the dps loss from switching to healing gear and rearranging traits.

 

The shroud skills can be applied in bursts but refilling LF afterward becomes a high priority so it is like having two cool downs, one of which requires work to clear.

[HardRider.2980]

With all the damage out there vs the protection a scourge has.. it's not even close to being OP.

Especially when you compare it to other classes

[Justine.6351]

Idk if barrier is op but I'm pretty sure most of you have not seen nor encountered a good scourge. Not that the game flooded with bad necromancers would allow most of you to recognize a good one anyhow.

[DTATL.9641]

There is little problem with the barrier mechanic. A mechanic by itself is not op. It's the access to it in combination with other mechanics that makes something op but that doesn't mean the mechanic itself is op. Scourge is your problem and scourge is a messy clusterkitten. Barrier on scourge might feel op because of all the other crap it has but barrier on it's own is not op. It's finally in a place where it feels usable while also not being annoying to use. In short, fix scourge not barrier.

[Nath Forge Tempete.1645]

rephrase it to "Scourge's barrier is way too strong" then i'm fine ... (why so much hates on ele tho?)

[DTATL.9641]

Barrier is the least wrong with Scourge. Scourge has way bigger problems than that. The barrier access is at least mildly interactive( and does also incentivise teamplay slightly) in comparison to the constant boon corrupt and the extremely passive pulsing damage. But I understand that people try to target something with Scourge because the design of it is so messy it can be hard to know where to start.

[Arzurag.7506]

Well, I really would like to trade barrier with blocks, evades and blurr.

[Nimon.7840]

> @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > @"Zero.3871" said:

> > > @"ZombieSlayeR.8702" said:

> > > > @"Zero.3871" said:

> > >

> > > > bs, scourge without support is ez kill for every range and high mobility class.

> > >

> > > Yeah whats the point ?

> > > With support it literally dominates everything ... weve had that for ages with condi reaper and everyone cried for nerfs.

> > > But now its different rite ? x)

> >

> > so you want that scourge get nerfed because firebrand and eles are good supporter? thats absurd. you cant nerf a class because of other classes strenghts. thats the same if you would nerf warrior because ele can good support him.

> >

>

> If all support classes where deleted from the game, Scourge would still be meta. You don't need a support for scourge to dominate a fight, although a support does augment a scourge to a extreme degree.

> Fun fact: In tournaments is fairly common for Scourges to be rotated independent of their team's support.

 

Anyone who says he cant beat scourge with any of the other classes just sux at the game. Thats how it is, coming from a necro main.

 

The problem is: most people dont use their movement abilities or ranged attacks, they facetank the scourge without having condiremoval and then they cry that scourge is op.

 

I just fought a thief yesterday. He engaged the fight and died due to incompetence. He just facetanked me, stood in all aes i got and then he insulted me. Said that im a fcking nab that only plays op class. LOL

[Anchoku.8142]

Barrier, I liken to a weird, whacked Aegis that will block a set amount damage before expiring instead of all of one hit. Duration is not affected by concentration but it cannot be stripped or corrupted, either. (Heh, corrupting Aegis proc's Burning, which could be expected to be transferred.)

 

Life force consumption for shroud is also like a stricter version of the ammo system.

[Oozo.7856]

> @"Vaga.5174" said:

> > @"kitten.5682" said:

> > If its so op scourges will be king of duelists. Find a single thread with scourge solo roaming and beating 1vs1 skilful duelsists.

> >

> > Scourges is the easiest class to takedown that's why they tend to be babysit more than anyone else.

> >

> > a 5k every15 second is nothing and a 2k every 5 is merely an autocrit. At least I speak with numbers and not bs theorycrafting.

> >

> > consider that scourge doesn't have any active block , evade , stealth or general mobility yea pretty much op is trolling

> >

> >

> > edit play scourge and know a scourge is total different thing

> >

>

> Find a single thread where a equally skilled scourge plays vs an equally skilled player. You wont.

>

> Also, dont be ridiculous, scourge is not the 'easiest class to takedown'. Stop just saying off the cuff comments and try to be more considered with feedback.

 

In WvW, scourge should be a pretty standard kill against anything with superior ranged damage or enough combat mobility to dip in and out on the scourge.

 

 

[UnDeadFun.5824]

If I stand in Spellbreaker's bubble and die, is Spellbreaker OP and need a nerf ?

[juno.1840]

> @"Tzozef.9841" said:

> This is coming from someone who plays Scourge.

>

> The 2nd iteration of barrier was fine.

>

> Barrier right now, is way too strong. Even with the minor condi nerf overall, current barrier mitigates damage so consistently along with the complete condi bomb is really unfair.

>

> Either Barrier stays in its current state, by all barrier skills amount gets reduced by half at most.

>

> Or bring back degeneration over time like before but refine it.

>

> Barrier is making Scourge really imbalanced, the condi damage is enough atm. The barrier needs to be tuned down. Too much defense with too much condi damage.

>

> It's really harder now for Power builds to counter Scourge in comparison to against other condi builds/classes. I'm simply too effective against them.

>

> *Not to mention, you can't DEBUFF barrier unlike boons, it's a consistent dmg mitigation too often for a high dmg condi build, there needs to be trade off. We are already taking advantage of the fact we can use dire or trailblazer armor without sacrificing condi dmg.

 

And how many 1v1s do you win solo roaming on your OP scourge?

[DeadlySynz.3471]

> @"Vag.5682" said:

> From reading your post I can see that ... reaper is fine ?

>

> Barrier is op (which numbers are already lower sometime ago so kitten your talking about) when f4 is like 15 second cooldown 5-6k barrier and this is too much ?

>

> And what exactly scourge has after no mobility, no evades , no block , no stealth ...

>

> Your full of bs m8 go whine elsewhere

 

Exactly...

 

Not only that, a ranger can rip through a barrier'd scourge and kill them in less than 7 seconds even despite all the healing in the world thrown at them. Hence the no mobility, no evades, no block, or stealth.. in other words, a sitting duck to ranged classes.

 

But of course, players just can't be bothered to jump on a ranged class. Could people even imagine what it'd be like if the Ranger community suddenly became vocal about how easily they are run over by melee, so we started seeing melee classes lose a chunk of their armor, half their health, and certain game breaking skills (in the eyes of a ranged class) like wall of reflection obliterated into the ground. Like seriously, do players not think.... lol

[Kain Francois.4328]

... What is so OP about a measly 1k hp every 5 seconds? You can passive heal for more than that amount.

 

So a scourge uses his heal skill to gain 4000 hp every 30 seconds. Big deal?

 

I'm coming at this from a pve/raid perspective, so I'm probably missing something here. Do those 5 seconds really determine your match?

[Khailyn.6248]

If barrier is OP and needs a nerf what should be buffed to compensate for survivability? has no invulnerabilities, no quick movement skills, no resistance, minimal healing, almost no stability... >

[DaVid Darksoul.4985]

Scrounges are already too killable. I play them in zergs due to support from others but roaming I like to go Reaper or core necro . I also use a necro build with just the opening trait for reaper pointed so I can use GS, it's fun to watch rangers try to kite me then take lifeblasts before they realize what's happening. Barriers are too burnable with the massive damage some classes put out. Only in confined areas and when they have support can they be OP. Mesmers are my vote for massive nerfs along with warriors. Can't believe Deathly Chill has been consistently nerfed whilst confusion and fire have had only mock nerfs done to them. Hey how about some movement augmentation or let chill affect movement skills like bullrush the way it logically should.

 

[Zaraki.5784]

Previous barrier was too week, current barrier is too OP....you're never happy guys...