zealex.9410 Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 > @zealex.9410 said: > > @Esplen.3940 said: > > > @Ghin.1653 said: > > > Would this technically trigger Self-deception once or twice then if both used? > > > > I would assume once, but it could trigger twice. > > > > The similar interaction is [shadow Trap](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_Trap) which, when traited, provides Might on trap skill use. This one is interesting as it has 3 parts (Drop Trap, Break Trap, Use Trap-When kitten). The Trait only applies to the Use Trap-When kitten portion. > > > > I would assume that Self-Deception only works on the first part of Mirage Advance. Additionally, it wouldn't really matter as the return already spawns a clone. > > > Jaunt will spawn a clone for each charge. Mirage advance will create 2 and all the other utils will spawn 1 each. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 > @FaboBabo.3581 said: > > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > > @FaboBabo.3581 said: > > > > @Dondagora.9645 said: > > > > > @FaboBabo.3581 said: > > > > > > @Dondagora.9645 said: > > > > > > @"FaboBabo.3581" > > > > > > > > > > > > Look, this is the same thing with your original post in the old forums. > > > > > > > > > > > > Give us a build or be quiet. kitten, give us a video if you can, or pics, or something. If you can't give us something along those lines to look at and say "huh, I can see that", then it's unreasonable to assume you can convince us. And if you're unwilling to convince us wholeheartedly (AKA you're just half-arsing it), then I don't understand why you're even attempting to argue when you're forgoing every possible avenue of being persuasive and valid. > > > > > > > > > > Well im not the one who u Think i am. > > > > > Am currently on my phone and won't do the math here again. Not even Sure if im going to do the math again Overall ( i should get home in the evening when pof is already launched ) > > > > > > > > > > Second Thing is that im not in the need to proof anything to u since tbh i dont care about u. Wait a few houres and look up for benchmark videos, or go ahead and say everyone is lying i dont care mate. > > > > > ( i never saved the math cause why should i ... ) > > > > > > > > All I'm saying is, from a perspective of logic and making claims, is that if you're not willing (or don't care) to provide anything to back up your claims, then what's the point of claiming it in the first place? Maybe we think you're just being a jerk (for lack of a better word because of forum censorship, though the word I'd use is more akin to a "donkey named jack"), which is fair for us to do because you're just claiming something and saying you don't have to prove it but that we're all kitten for not believing you (this is implied since you've argued "I can't believe nobody else figured it out" or something along those lines), and then maybe, just maybe, you'll make us look like jerks 'cause you're right and we were saying all this stuff but we're proved wrong. That still, in the end, is just you being a jerk to make us look like jerks. > > > > > > > > So, stop being a jerk, and either show us some math or build or something, or stop making claims without being willing (or caring) enough to show your reasoning to us in some capacity (i.e. a build or math). Otherwise, as I've said, what's the point of saying anything in the first place? > > > > > > Im just giving Informations. If u dont believe me its ok. And im not going to let them look as jerk if im right. They will be looked as jerks cause they said they did the math, while they a) didnt or b) did absolutely wrong. > > > > > > Same with me ; if im wrong it shows that im either a) a lyer or b) really bad with math. > > > > > > I stated why im not posting the math. I dont want to convince anyone, and additonal we're 3 houres left from PoF. In 4 houres we have Golem benchmarks. No need to put any effort in theorycrafting anymore. > > > > > > And yeah my main Thing is that i dont like it when people do claims without thinking about it. Since i DID the math i KNOW that ppl who claim other numbers DID NOT do the math, but claim they did. They look at the skills and do em once vs a golem , have bad rng and then there testing is done. > > > > So which one is it? A or B? > > > > On topic, let's all remain calm. The spec has come quite a far way from the first beta weekend. Obviously some of the other elite specs are vastly outperforming what a non-powercreep scenario should be (compared to HoT) with Weaver hitting 48k on first day trainingdummy shennanigans (and even Soulbeast hitting 33k and above). > > > > Stuff will get balanced. > > > > Me personally I've been running full Mirage for the pve story so far with a full ascended set of Traiblazer on a Staff/Axe+Torch combo. Have yet to die and managed most achievements first try without paying to much attention to them. The spec is funish (I still prefer core power for damage and chrono for everything else), has more of a clone uptime than core power and will likely anoy people in wvw nicely when roaming. Then again, so did chrono. > > Well , benchmarks i have seen so far are around 30-33k, just as i said ... so yeah ; i was right... > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/3574/my-tests-on-condition-based-mirage-in-raids-so-far#latest > Been looking at this mostly. > Esplen did one too gettin 28k but with a (in my opinion) supoptimal rotation. He was only using axe as main Hand, instead of switching axe to scepter and back. > No no, go back to some of your posts. You were ravid about how much better Mirage was supposed to be while people were calling you out on it knowing that its a slight upgrade at best to core condi mesmer. It's also far from being meta viable. Let's also not forget, core condi mesmer will be vastly easier than Mirage so under realistic damage scenarios it will likely still outperform Mirage, say in raids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaboBabo.3581 Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > @FaboBabo.3581 said: > > > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > > > @FaboBabo.3581 said: > > > > > @Dondagora.9645 said: > > > > > > @FaboBabo.3581 said: > > > > > > > @Dondagora.9645 said: > > > > > > > @"FaboBabo.3581" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Look, this is the same thing with your original post in the old forums. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Give us a build or be quiet. kitten, give us a video if you can, or pics, or something. If you can't give us something along those lines to look at and say "huh, I can see that", then it's unreasonable to assume you can convince us. And if you're unwilling to convince us wholeheartedly (AKA you're just half-arsing it), then I don't understand why you're even attempting to argue when you're forgoing every possible avenue of being persuasive and valid. > > > > > > > > > > > > Well im not the one who u Think i am. > > > > > > Am currently on my phone and won't do the math here again. Not even Sure if im going to do the math again Overall ( i should get home in the evening when pof is already launched ) > > > > > > > > > > > > Second Thing is that im not in the need to proof anything to u since tbh i dont care about u. Wait a few houres and look up for benchmark videos, or go ahead and say everyone is lying i dont care mate. > > > > > > ( i never saved the math cause why should i ... ) > > > > > > > > > > All I'm saying is, from a perspective of logic and making claims, is that if you're not willing (or don't care) to provide anything to back up your claims, then what's the point of claiming it in the first place? Maybe we think you're just being a jerk (for lack of a better word because of forum censorship, though the word I'd use is more akin to a "donkey named jack"), which is fair for us to do because you're just claiming something and saying you don't have to prove it but that we're all kitten for not believing you (this is implied since you've argued "I can't believe nobody else figured it out" or something along those lines), and then maybe, just maybe, you'll make us look like jerks 'cause you're right and we were saying all this stuff but we're proved wrong. That still, in the end, is just you being a jerk to make us look like jerks. > > > > > > > > > > So, stop being a jerk, and either show us some math or build or something, or stop making claims without being willing (or caring) enough to show your reasoning to us in some capacity (i.e. a build or math). Otherwise, as I've said, what's the point of saying anything in the first place? > > > > > > > > Im just giving Informations. If u dont believe me its ok. And im not going to let them look as jerk if im right. They will be looked as jerks cause they said they did the math, while they a) didnt or b) did absolutely wrong. > > > > > > > > Same with me ; if im wrong it shows that im either a) a lyer or b) really bad with math. > > > > > > > > I stated why im not posting the math. I dont want to convince anyone, and additonal we're 3 houres left from PoF. In 4 houres we have Golem benchmarks. No need to put any effort in theorycrafting anymore. > > > > > > > > And yeah my main Thing is that i dont like it when people do claims without thinking about it. Since i DID the math i KNOW that ppl who claim other numbers DID NOT do the math, but claim they did. They look at the skills and do em once vs a golem , have bad rng and then there testing is done. > > > > > > So which one is it? A or B? > > > > > > On topic, let's all remain calm. The spec has come quite a far way from the first beta weekend. Obviously some of the other elite specs are vastly outperforming what a non-powercreep scenario should be (compared to HoT) with Weaver hitting 48k on first day trainingdummy shennanigans (and even Soulbeast hitting 33k and above). > > > > > > Stuff will get balanced. > > > > > > Me personally I've been running full Mirage for the pve story so far with a full ascended set of Traiblazer on a Staff/Axe+Torch combo. Have yet to die and managed most achievements first try without paying to much attention to them. The spec is funish (I still prefer core power for damage and chrono for everything else), has more of a clone uptime than core power and will likely anoy people in wvw nicely when roaming. Then again, so did chrono. > > > > Well , benchmarks i have seen so far are around 30-33k, just as i said ... so yeah ; i was right... > > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/3574/my-tests-on-condition-based-mirage-in-raids-so-far#latest > > Been looking at this mostly. > > Esplen did one too gettin 28k but with a (in my opinion) supoptimal rotation. He was only using axe as main Hand, instead of switching axe to scepter and back. > > > > No no, go back to some of your posts. You were ravid about how much better Mirage was supposed to be while people were calling you out on it knowing that its a slight upgrade at best to core condi mesmer. It's also far from being meta viable. > > Let's also not forget, core condi mesmer will be vastly easier than Mirage so under realistic damage scenarios it will likely still outperform Mirage, say in raids. I edited my Post quoting myself. U can edit ur Post accordingly. Would be good if u quote the post in which i said that Mirrage is 234578934256234 better. While i don't remember saying that, i'd expressed myself in the wrong way. Whatever ; My last statement was 30-32k, everyone said, "no way", and here we are ; 30-32k example quote "@mortrialus.3062 said: » show previous quotes There's nooooo way based on current numbers Mirage is getting close to 30k dps. Condition mesmer is 26k dps and Mirage is a slight upgrade over that at best." And yeah Mesmer rotation is 1110% easier then Mirrage rotation. (can we call mesmer a "rotation"?) Therefore NOONE right now has the optimal Mirrage rotation, which means we will even see more then 30-32k dps, but only on "skilled" players. Some arguments across the community is "will bring more dps but more unreliant due to meele and harder rotation" Im gonna translate this "Is indeed better then Core Mesmer, but only if u have Skill" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 > @FaboBabo.3581 said: > > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > > @FaboBabo.3581 said: > > > > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > > > > @FaboBabo.3581 said: > > > > > > @Dondagora.9645 said: > > > > > > > @FaboBabo.3581 said: > > > > > > > > @Dondagora.9645 said: > > > > > > > > @"FaboBabo.3581" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Look, this is the same thing with your original post in the old forums. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Give us a build or be quiet. kitten, give us a video if you can, or pics, or something. If you can't give us something along those lines to look at and say "huh, I can see that", then it's unreasonable to assume you can convince us. And if you're unwilling to convince us wholeheartedly (AKA you're just half-arsing it), then I don't understand why you're even attempting to argue when you're forgoing every possible avenue of being persuasive and valid. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well im not the one who u Think i am. > > > > > > > Am currently on my phone and won't do the math here again. Not even Sure if im going to do the math again Overall ( i should get home in the evening when pof is already launched ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Second Thing is that im not in the need to proof anything to u since tbh i dont care about u. Wait a few houres and look up for benchmark videos, or go ahead and say everyone is lying i dont care mate. > > > > > > > ( i never saved the math cause why should i ... ) > > > > > > > > > > > > All I'm saying is, from a perspective of logic and making claims, is that if you're not willing (or don't care) to provide anything to back up your claims, then what's the point of claiming it in the first place? Maybe we think you're just being a jerk (for lack of a better word because of forum censorship, though the word I'd use is more akin to a "donkey named jack"), which is fair for us to do because you're just claiming something and saying you don't have to prove it but that we're all kitten for not believing you (this is implied since you've argued "I can't believe nobody else figured it out" or something along those lines), and then maybe, just maybe, you'll make us look like jerks 'cause you're right and we were saying all this stuff but we're proved wrong. That still, in the end, is just you being a jerk to make us look like jerks. > > > > > > > > > > > > So, stop being a jerk, and either show us some math or build or something, or stop making claims without being willing (or caring) enough to show your reasoning to us in some capacity (i.e. a build or math). Otherwise, as I've said, what's the point of saying anything in the first place? > > > > > > > > > > Im just giving Informations. If u dont believe me its ok. And im not going to let them look as jerk if im right. They will be looked as jerks cause they said they did the math, while they a) didnt or b) did absolutely wrong. > > > > > > > > > > Same with me ; if im wrong it shows that im either a) a lyer or b) really bad with math. > > > > > > > > > > I stated why im not posting the math. I dont want to convince anyone, and additonal we're 3 houres left from PoF. In 4 houres we have Golem benchmarks. No need to put any effort in theorycrafting anymore. > > > > > > > > > > And yeah my main Thing is that i dont like it when people do claims without thinking about it. Since i DID the math i KNOW that ppl who claim other numbers DID NOT do the math, but claim they did. They look at the skills and do em once vs a golem , have bad rng and then there testing is done. > > > > > > > > So which one is it? A or B? > > > > > > > > On topic, let's all remain calm. The spec has come quite a far way from the first beta weekend. Obviously some of the other elite specs are vastly outperforming what a non-powercreep scenario should be (compared to HoT) with Weaver hitting 48k on first day trainingdummy shennanigans (and even Soulbeast hitting 33k and above). > > > > > > > > Stuff will get balanced. > > > > > > > > Me personally I've been running full Mirage for the pve story so far with a full ascended set of Traiblazer on a Staff/Axe+Torch combo. Have yet to die and managed most achievements first try without paying to much attention to them. The spec is funish (I still prefer core power for damage and chrono for everything else), has more of a clone uptime than core power and will likely anoy people in wvw nicely when roaming. Then again, so did chrono. > > > > > > Well , benchmarks i have seen so far are around 30-33k, just as i said ... so yeah ; i was right... > > > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/3574/my-tests-on-condition-based-mirage-in-raids-so-far#latest > > > Been looking at this mostly. > > > Esplen did one too gettin 28k but with a (in my opinion) supoptimal rotation. He was only using axe as main Hand, instead of switching axe to scepter and back. > > > > > > > No no, go back to some of your posts. You were ravid about how much better Mirage was supposed to be while people were calling you out on it knowing that its a slight upgrade at best to core condi mesmer. It's also far from being meta viable. > > > > Let's also not forget, core condi mesmer will be vastly easier than Mirage so under realistic damage scenarios it will likely still outperform Mirage, say in raids. > > I edited my Post quoting myself. U can edit ur Post accordingly. Would be good if u quote the post in which i said that Mirrage is 234578934256234 better. While i don't remember saying that, i'd expressed myself in the wrong way. Whatever ; My last statement was 30-32k, everyone said, "no way", and here we are ; 30-32k > > example quote > > "@mortrialus.3062 said: > » show previous quotes > There's nooooo way based on current numbers Mirage is getting close to 30k dps. Condition mesmer is 26k dps and Mirage is a slight upgrade over that at best." Yeah I had already replied. Let's not forget 1 thing, Mirage is at 30-32k dps AFTER the last minute changes and upgrades 1 day pre launch. Some of your statements were made days befor that. So yes, Mirage is at 30-32k so far WITH the last minute upgrades. I specifically stayed out of numbers and performance since those can always be tweaked and was always focused on how the spec plays and feels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlashugged.7642 Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 > @Cyninja.2954 said: > No no, go back to some of your posts. You were ravid about how much better Mirage was supposed to be while people were calling you out on it knowing that its a slight upgrade at best to core condi mesmer. It's also far from being meta viable. > Let's also not forget, core condi mesmer will be vastly easier than Mirage so under realistic damage scenarios it will likely still outperform Mirage, say in raids. I haven't seen him be "ravid" whatever the heck that means, at all. I've seen him express the correct idea that mirage will be an upgrade on condi mesmer. I suspect that you, like most people in this forum, are so consumed in the delusional mirage pity pve party, that you'll see any optimism (or indeed facts) as "ravid" opposition to your life's true purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 > @atlashugged.7642 said: > > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > No no, go back to some of your posts. You were ravid about how much better Mirage was supposed to be while people were calling you out on it knowing that its a slight upgrade at best to core condi mesmer. It's also far from being meta viable. > > Let's also not forget, core condi mesmer will be vastly easier than Mirage so under realistic damage scenarios it will likely still outperform Mirage, say in raids. > > I haven't seen him be "ravid" whatever the heck that means, at all. I've seen him express the correct idea that mirage will be an upgrade on condi mesmer. I suspect that you, like most people in this forum, are so consumed in the delusional mirage pity pve party, that you'll see any optimism (or indeed facts) as "ravid" opposition to your life's true purpose. > Must be nice to play Mirage AFTER the last balance sweep made it fun. Some of us were playing it during the beta weekends and made, in hindsight correct, critic about the spec heard so that you and others can enjoy it in a less pathetic state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaboBabo.3581 Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > @FaboBabo.3581 said: > > > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > > > @FaboBabo.3581 said: > > > > > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > > > > > @FaboBabo.3581 said: > > > > > > > @Dondagora.9645 said: > > > > > > > > @FaboBabo.3581 said: > > > > > > > > > @Dondagora.9645 said: > > > > > > > > > @"FaboBabo.3581" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Look, this is the same thing with your original post in the old forums. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Give us a build or be quiet. kitten, give us a video if you can, or pics, or something. If you can't give us something along those lines to look at and say "huh, I can see that", then it's unreasonable to assume you can convince us. And if you're unwilling to convince us wholeheartedly (AKA you're just half-arsing it), then I don't understand why you're even attempting to argue when you're forgoing every possible avenue of being persuasive and valid. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well im not the one who u Think i am. > > > > > > > > Am currently on my phone and won't do the math here again. Not even Sure if im going to do the math again Overall ( i should get home in the evening when pof is already launched ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Second Thing is that im not in the need to proof anything to u since tbh i dont care about u. Wait a few houres and look up for benchmark videos, or go ahead and say everyone is lying i dont care mate. > > > > > > > > ( i never saved the math cause why should i ... ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All I'm saying is, from a perspective of logic and making claims, is that if you're not willing (or don't care) to provide anything to back up your claims, then what's the point of claiming it in the first place? Maybe we think you're just being a jerk (for lack of a better word because of forum censorship, though the word I'd use is more akin to a "donkey named jack"), which is fair for us to do because you're just claiming something and saying you don't have to prove it but that we're all kitten for not believing you (this is implied since you've argued "I can't believe nobody else figured it out" or something along those lines), and then maybe, just maybe, you'll make us look like jerks 'cause you're right and we were saying all this stuff but we're proved wrong. That still, in the end, is just you being a jerk to make us look like jerks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, stop being a jerk, and either show us some math or build or something, or stop making claims without being willing (or caring) enough to show your reasoning to us in some capacity (i.e. a build or math). Otherwise, as I've said, what's the point of saying anything in the first place? > > > > > > > > > > > > Im just giving Informations. If u dont believe me its ok. And im not going to let them look as jerk if im right. They will be looked as jerks cause they said they did the math, while they a) didnt or b) did absolutely wrong. > > > > > > > > > > > > Same with me ; if im wrong it shows that im either a) a lyer or b) really bad with math. > > > > > > > > > > > > I stated why im not posting the math. I dont want to convince anyone, and additonal we're 3 houres left from PoF. In 4 houres we have Golem benchmarks. No need to put any effort in theorycrafting anymore. > > > > > > > > > > > > And yeah my main Thing is that i dont like it when people do claims without thinking about it. Since i DID the math i KNOW that ppl who claim other numbers DID NOT do the math, but claim they did. They look at the skills and do em once vs a golem , have bad rng and then there testing is done. > > > > > > > > > > So which one is it? A or B? > > > > > > > > > > On topic, let's all remain calm. The spec has come quite a far way from the first beta weekend. Obviously some of the other elite specs are vastly outperforming what a non-powercreep scenario should be (compared to HoT) with Weaver hitting 48k on first day trainingdummy shennanigans (and even Soulbeast hitting 33k and above). > > > > > > > > > > Stuff will get balanced. > > > > > > > > > > Me personally I've been running full Mirage for the pve story so far with a full ascended set of Traiblazer on a Staff/Axe+Torch combo. Have yet to die and managed most achievements first try without paying to much attention to them. The spec is funish (I still prefer core power for damage and chrono for everything else), has more of a clone uptime than core power and will likely anoy people in wvw nicely when roaming. Then again, so did chrono. > > > > > > > > Well , benchmarks i have seen so far are around 30-33k, just as i said ... so yeah ; i was right... > > > > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/3574/my-tests-on-condition-based-mirage-in-raids-so-far#latest > > > > Been looking at this mostly. > > > > Esplen did one too gettin 28k but with a (in my opinion) supoptimal rotation. He was only using axe as main Hand, instead of switching axe to scepter and back. > > > > > > > > > > No no, go back to some of your posts. You were ravid about how much better Mirage was supposed to be while people were calling you out on it knowing that its a slight upgrade at best to core condi mesmer. It's also far from being meta viable. > > > > > > Let's also not forget, core condi mesmer will be vastly easier than Mirage so under realistic damage scenarios it will likely still outperform Mirage, say in raids. > > > > I edited my Post quoting myself. U can edit ur Post accordingly. Would be good if u quote the post in which i said that Mirrage is 234578934256234 better. While i don't remember saying that, i'd expressed myself in the wrong way. Whatever ; My last statement was 30-32k, everyone said, "no way", and here we are ; 30-32k > > > > example quote > > > > "@mortrialus.3062 said: > > » show previous quotes > > There's nooooo way based on current numbers Mirage is getting close to 30k dps. Condition mesmer is 26k dps and Mirage is a slight upgrade over that at best." > > Yeah I had already replied. > > Let's not forget 1 thing, Mirage is at 30-32k dps AFTER the last minute changes and upgrades 1 day pre launch. Some of your statements were made days befor that. So yes, Mirage is at 30-32k so far WITH the last minute upgrades. > > I specifically stayed out of numbers and performance since those can always be tweaked and was always focused on how the spec plays and feels. Dude , we are IN the update Post. It is literally IMPOSSIBLE for me to write anything in this post, without reading the update. Ur just looking for ways to define me, without lookin at facts.... and yeah this is the moment in which i can't take u serious anymore. No offense here, but this is no discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 > @FaboBabo.3581 said: > > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > > @FaboBabo.3581 said: > > > > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > > > > @FaboBabo.3581 said: > > > > > > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > > > > > > @FaboBabo.3581 said: > > > > > > > > @Dondagora.9645 said: > > > > > > > > > @FaboBabo.3581 said: > > > > > > > > > > @Dondagora.9645 said: > > > > > > > > > > @"FaboBabo.3581" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Look, this is the same thing with your original post in the old forums. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Give us a build or be quiet. kitten, give us a video if you can, or pics, or something. If you can't give us something along those lines to look at and say "huh, I can see that", then it's unreasonable to assume you can convince us. And if you're unwilling to convince us wholeheartedly (AKA you're just half-arsing it), then I don't understand why you're even attempting to argue when you're forgoing every possible avenue of being persuasive and valid. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well im not the one who u Think i am. > > > > > > > > > Am currently on my phone and won't do the math here again. Not even Sure if im going to do the math again Overall ( i should get home in the evening when pof is already launched ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Second Thing is that im not in the need to proof anything to u since tbh i dont care about u. Wait a few houres and look up for benchmark videos, or go ahead and say everyone is lying i dont care mate. > > > > > > > > > ( i never saved the math cause why should i ... ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All I'm saying is, from a perspective of logic and making claims, is that if you're not willing (or don't care) to provide anything to back up your claims, then what's the point of claiming it in the first place? Maybe we think you're just being a jerk (for lack of a better word because of forum censorship, though the word I'd use is more akin to a "donkey named jack"), which is fair for us to do because you're just claiming something and saying you don't have to prove it but that we're all kitten for not believing you (this is implied since you've argued "I can't believe nobody else figured it out" or something along those lines), and then maybe, just maybe, you'll make us look like jerks 'cause you're right and we were saying all this stuff but we're proved wrong. That still, in the end, is just you being a jerk to make us look like jerks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, stop being a jerk, and either show us some math or build or something, or stop making claims without being willing (or caring) enough to show your reasoning to us in some capacity (i.e. a build or math). Otherwise, as I've said, what's the point of saying anything in the first place? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Im just giving Informations. If u dont believe me its ok. And im not going to let them look as jerk if im right. They will be looked as jerks cause they said they did the math, while they a) didnt or b) did absolutely wrong. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same with me ; if im wrong it shows that im either a) a lyer or b) really bad with math. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I stated why im not posting the math. I dont want to convince anyone, and additonal we're 3 houres left from PoF. In 4 houres we have Golem benchmarks. No need to put any effort in theorycrafting anymore. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And yeah my main Thing is that i dont like it when people do claims without thinking about it. Since i DID the math i KNOW that ppl who claim other numbers DID NOT do the math, but claim they did. They look at the skills and do em once vs a golem , have bad rng and then there testing is done. > > > > > > > > > > > > So which one is it? A or B? > > > > > > > > > > > > On topic, let's all remain calm. The spec has come quite a far way from the first beta weekend. Obviously some of the other elite specs are vastly outperforming what a non-powercreep scenario should be (compared to HoT) with Weaver hitting 48k on first day trainingdummy shennanigans (and even Soulbeast hitting 33k and above). > > > > > > > > > > > > Stuff will get balanced. > > > > > > > > > > > > Me personally I've been running full Mirage for the pve story so far with a full ascended set of Traiblazer on a Staff/Axe+Torch combo. Have yet to die and managed most achievements first try without paying to much attention to them. The spec is funish (I still prefer core power for damage and chrono for everything else), has more of a clone uptime than core power and will likely anoy people in wvw nicely when roaming. Then again, so did chrono. > > > > > > > > > > Well , benchmarks i have seen so far are around 30-33k, just as i said ... so yeah ; i was right... > > > > > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/3574/my-tests-on-condition-based-mirage-in-raids-so-far#latest > > > > > Been looking at this mostly. > > > > > Esplen did one too gettin 28k but with a (in my opinion) supoptimal rotation. He was only using axe as main Hand, instead of switching axe to scepter and back. > > > > > > > > > > > > > No no, go back to some of your posts. You were ravid about how much better Mirage was supposed to be while people were calling you out on it knowing that its a slight upgrade at best to core condi mesmer. It's also far from being meta viable. > > > > > > > > Let's also not forget, core condi mesmer will be vastly easier than Mirage so under realistic damage scenarios it will likely still outperform Mirage, say in raids. > > > > > > I edited my Post quoting myself. U can edit ur Post accordingly. Would be good if u quote the post in which i said that Mirrage is 234578934256234 better. While i don't remember saying that, i'd expressed myself in the wrong way. Whatever ; My last statement was 30-32k, everyone said, "no way", and here we are ; 30-32k > > > > > > example quote > > > > > > "@mortrialus.3062 said: > > > » show previous quotes > > > There's nooooo way based on current numbers Mirage is getting close to 30k dps. Condition mesmer is 26k dps and Mirage is a slight upgrade over that at best." > > > > Yeah I had already replied. > > > > Let's not forget 1 thing, Mirage is at 30-32k dps AFTER the last minute changes and upgrades 1 day pre launch. Some of your statements were made days befor that. So yes, Mirage is at 30-32k so far WITH the last minute upgrades. > > > > I specifically stayed out of numbers and performance since those can always be tweaked and was always focused on how the spec plays and feels. > > Dude , we are IN the update Post. It is literally IMPOSSIBLE for me to write anything in this post, without reading the update. Ur just looking for ways to define me, without lookin at facts.... and yeah this is the moment in which i can't take u serious anymore. No offense here, but this is no discussion. You've been vocal about Mirages performance in other posts and in the old forums too. Let's keep it real please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlashugged.7642 Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 > @Cyninja.2954 said: > Must be nice to play Mirage AFTER the last balance sweep made it fun. Some of us were playing it during the beta weekends and made, in hindsight correct, critic about the spec heard so that you and others can enjoy it in a less pathetic state. So why join the delusional mirage pve pity party after, in your own words, "the last balance sweep made it fun?" Why complain about damage from before the update? It's like you're choosing to be upset instead of happy, and I doubt the attitude you and others have makes it likely for anyone to think your criticisms are valid. I certainly haven't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaboBabo.3581 Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > @FaboBabo.3581 said: > > > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > > > @FaboBabo.3581 said: > > > > > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > > > > > @FaboBabo.3581 said: > > > > > > > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > > > > > > > @FaboBabo.3581 said: > > > > > > > > > @Dondagora.9645 said: > > > > > > > > > > @FaboBabo.3581 said: > > > > > > > > > > > @Dondagora.9645 said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"FaboBabo.3581" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Look, this is the same thing with your original post in the old forums. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Give us a build or be quiet. kitten, give us a video if you can, or pics, or something. If you can't give us something along those lines to look at and say "huh, I can see that", then it's unreasonable to assume you can convince us. And if you're unwilling to convince us wholeheartedly (AKA you're just half-arsing it), then I don't understand why you're even attempting to argue when you're forgoing every possible avenue of being persuasive and valid. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well im not the one who u Think i am. > > > > > > > > > > Am currently on my phone and won't do the math here again. Not even Sure if im going to do the math again Overall ( i should get home in the evening when pof is already launched ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Second Thing is that im not in the need to proof anything to u since tbh i dont care about u. Wait a few houres and look up for benchmark videos, or go ahead and say everyone is lying i dont care mate. > > > > > > > > > > ( i never saved the math cause why should i ... ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All I'm saying is, from a perspective of logic and making claims, is that if you're not willing (or don't care) to provide anything to back up your claims, then what's the point of claiming it in the first place? Maybe we think you're just being a jerk (for lack of a better word because of forum censorship, though the word I'd use is more akin to a "donkey named jack"), which is fair for us to do because you're just claiming something and saying you don't have to prove it but that we're all kitten for not believing you (this is implied since you've argued "I can't believe nobody else figured it out" or something along those lines), and then maybe, just maybe, you'll make us look like jerks 'cause you're right and we were saying all this stuff but we're proved wrong. That still, in the end, is just you being a jerk to make us look like jerks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, stop being a jerk, and either show us some math or build or something, or stop making claims without being willing (or caring) enough to show your reasoning to us in some capacity (i.e. a build or math). Otherwise, as I've said, what's the point of saying anything in the first place? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Im just giving Informations. If u dont believe me its ok. And im not going to let them look as jerk if im right. They will be looked as jerks cause they said they did the math, while they a) didnt or b) did absolutely wrong. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same with me ; if im wrong it shows that im either a) a lyer or b) really bad with math. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I stated why im not posting the math. I dont want to convince anyone, and additonal we're 3 houres left from PoF. In 4 houres we have Golem benchmarks. No need to put any effort in theorycrafting anymore. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And yeah my main Thing is that i dont like it when people do claims without thinking about it. Since i DID the math i KNOW that ppl who claim other numbers DID NOT do the math, but claim they did. They look at the skills and do em once vs a golem , have bad rng and then there testing is done. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So which one is it? A or B? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On topic, let's all remain calm. The spec has come quite a far way from the first beta weekend. Obviously some of the other elite specs are vastly outperforming what a non-powercreep scenario should be (compared to HoT) with Weaver hitting 48k on first day trainingdummy shennanigans (and even Soulbeast hitting 33k and above). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stuff will get balanced. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Me personally I've been running full Mirage for the pve story so far with a full ascended set of Traiblazer on a Staff/Axe+Torch combo. Have yet to die and managed most achievements first try without paying to much attention to them. The spec is funish (I still prefer core power for damage and chrono for everything else), has more of a clone uptime than core power and will likely anoy people in wvw nicely when roaming. Then again, so did chrono. > > > > > > > > > > > > Well , benchmarks i have seen so far are around 30-33k, just as i said ... so yeah ; i was right... > > > > > > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/3574/my-tests-on-condition-based-mirage-in-raids-so-far#latest > > > > > > Been looking at this mostly. > > > > > > Esplen did one too gettin 28k but with a (in my opinion) supoptimal rotation. He was only using axe as main Hand, instead of switching axe to scepter and back. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No no, go back to some of your posts. You were ravid about how much better Mirage was supposed to be while people were calling you out on it knowing that its a slight upgrade at best to core condi mesmer. It's also far from being meta viable. > > > > > > > > > > Let's also not forget, core condi mesmer will be vastly easier than Mirage so under realistic damage scenarios it will likely still outperform Mirage, say in raids. > > > > > > > > I edited my Post quoting myself. U can edit ur Post accordingly. Would be good if u quote the post in which i said that Mirrage is 234578934256234 better. While i don't remember saying that, i'd expressed myself in the wrong way. Whatever ; My last statement was 30-32k, everyone said, "no way", and here we are ; 30-32k > > > > > > > > example quote > > > > > > > > "@mortrialus.3062 said: > > > > » show previous quotes > > > > There's nooooo way based on current numbers Mirage is getting close to 30k dps. Condition mesmer is 26k dps and Mirage is a slight upgrade over that at best." > > > > > > Yeah I had already replied. > > > > > > Let's not forget 1 thing, Mirage is at 30-32k dps AFTER the last minute changes and upgrades 1 day pre launch. Some of your statements were made days befor that. So yes, Mirage is at 30-32k so far WITH the last minute upgrades. > > > > > > I specifically stayed out of numbers and performance since those can always be tweaked and was always focused on how the spec plays and feels. > > > > Dude , we are IN the update Post. It is literally IMPOSSIBLE for me to write anything in this post, without reading the update. Ur just looking for ways to define me, without lookin at facts.... and yeah this is the moment in which i can't take u serious anymore. No offense here, but this is no discussion. > > You've been vocal about Mirages performance in other posts and in the old forums too. Let's keep it real please. Oh yes i've been vocal about it, but i never touched numbers until the actual last patch came in. My other statements in most cases were about WvW and PvP, cause from day 1 i knew it would be really good there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 > @atlashugged.7642 said: > > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > Must be nice to play Mirage AFTER the last balance sweep made it fun. Some of us were playing it during the beta weekends and made, in hindsight correct, critic about the spec heard so that you and others can enjoy it in a less pathetic state. > > So why join the delusional mirage pve pity party after, in your own words, "the last balance sweep made it fun?" Why complain about damage from before the update? It's like you're choosing to be upset instead of happy, and I doubt the attitude you and others have makes it likely for anyone to think your criticisms are valid. I certainly haven't. When have I joined the pity party? Go read some of my latest posts and you'll see I'm happy with the direction the spec has taken and am fine with it not being meta. I'm calling out someone who has constantly been shining a golden light on a damaged spec in need of attention while not offering to show his build to support his claims. Which in hindsight was bs. > @FaboBabo.3581 said: > > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > > @FaboBabo.3581 said: > > > > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > > > > @FaboBabo.3581 said: > > > > > > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > > > > > > @FaboBabo.3581 said: > > > > > > > > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > > > > > > > > @FaboBabo.3581 said: > > > > > > > > > > @Dondagora.9645 said: > > > > > > > > > > > @FaboBabo.3581 said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @Dondagora.9645 said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"FaboBabo.3581" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Look, this is the same thing with your original post in the old forums. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Give us a build or be quiet. kitten, give us a video if you can, or pics, or something. If you can't give us something along those lines to look at and say "huh, I can see that", then it's unreasonable to assume you can convince us. And if you're unwilling to convince us wholeheartedly (AKA you're just half-arsing it), then I don't understand why you're even attempting to argue when you're forgoing every possible avenue of being persuasive and valid. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well im not the one who u Think i am. > > > > > > > > > > > Am currently on my phone and won't do the math here again. Not even Sure if im going to do the math again Overall ( i should get home in the evening when pof is already launched ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Second Thing is that im not in the need to proof anything to u since tbh i dont care about u. Wait a few houres and look up for benchmark videos, or go ahead and say everyone is lying i dont care mate. > > > > > > > > > > > ( i never saved the math cause why should i ... ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All I'm saying is, from a perspective of logic and making claims, is that if you're not willing (or don't care) to provide anything to back up your claims, then what's the point of claiming it in the first place? Maybe we think you're just being a jerk (for lack of a better word because of forum censorship, though the word I'd use is more akin to a "donkey named jack"), which is fair for us to do because you're just claiming something and saying you don't have to prove it but that we're all kitten for not believing you (this is implied since you've argued "I can't believe nobody else figured it out" or something along those lines), and then maybe, just maybe, you'll make us look like jerks 'cause you're right and we were saying all this stuff but we're proved wrong. That still, in the end, is just you being a jerk to make us look like jerks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, stop being a jerk, and either show us some math or build or something, or stop making claims without being willing (or caring) enough to show your reasoning to us in some capacity (i.e. a build or math). Otherwise, as I've said, what's the point of saying anything in the first place? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Im just giving Informations. If u dont believe me its ok. And im not going to let them look as jerk if im right. They will be looked as jerks cause they said they did the math, while they a) didnt or b) did absolutely wrong. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same with me ; if im wrong it shows that im either a) a lyer or b) really bad with math. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I stated why im not posting the math. I dont want to convince anyone, and additonal we're 3 houres left from PoF. In 4 houres we have Golem benchmarks. No need to put any effort in theorycrafting anymore. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And yeah my main Thing is that i dont like it when people do claims without thinking about it. Since i DID the math i KNOW that ppl who claim other numbers DID NOT do the math, but claim they did. They look at the skills and do em once vs a golem , have bad rng and then there testing is done. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So which one is it? A or B? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On topic, let's all remain calm. The spec has come quite a far way from the first beta weekend. Obviously some of the other elite specs are vastly outperforming what a non-powercreep scenario should be (compared to HoT) with Weaver hitting 48k on first day trainingdummy shennanigans (and even Soulbeast hitting 33k and above). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stuff will get balanced. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Me personally I've been running full Mirage for the pve story so far with a full ascended set of Traiblazer on a Staff/Axe+Torch combo. Have yet to die and managed most achievements first try without paying to much attention to them. The spec is funish (I still prefer core power for damage and chrono for everything else), has more of a clone uptime than core power and will likely anoy people in wvw nicely when roaming. Then again, so did chrono. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well , benchmarks i have seen so far are around 30-33k, just as i said ... so yeah ; i was right... > > > > > > > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/3574/my-tests-on-condition-based-mirage-in-raids-so-far#latest > > > > > > > Been looking at this mostly. > > > > > > > Esplen did one too gettin 28k but with a (in my opinion) supoptimal rotation. He was only using axe as main Hand, instead of switching axe to scepter and back. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No no, go back to some of your posts. You were ravid about how much better Mirage was supposed to be while people were calling you out on it knowing that its a slight upgrade at best to core condi mesmer. It's also far from being meta viable. > > > > > > > > > > > > Let's also not forget, core condi mesmer will be vastly easier than Mirage so under realistic damage scenarios it will likely still outperform Mirage, say in raids. > > > > > > > > > > I edited my Post quoting myself. U can edit ur Post accordingly. Would be good if u quote the post in which i said that Mirrage is 234578934256234 better. While i don't remember saying that, i'd expressed myself in the wrong way. Whatever ; My last statement was 30-32k, everyone said, "no way", and here we are ; 30-32k > > > > > > > > > > example quote > > > > > > > > > > "@mortrialus.3062 said: > > > > > » show previous quotes > > > > > There's nooooo way based on current numbers Mirage is getting close to 30k dps. Condition mesmer is 26k dps and Mirage is a slight upgrade over that at best." > > > > > > > > Yeah I had already replied. > > > > > > > > Let's not forget 1 thing, Mirage is at 30-32k dps AFTER the last minute changes and upgrades 1 day pre launch. Some of your statements were made days befor that. So yes, Mirage is at 30-32k so far WITH the last minute upgrades. > > > > > > > > I specifically stayed out of numbers and performance since those can always be tweaked and was always focused on how the spec plays and feels. > > > > > > Dude , we are IN the update Post. It is literally IMPOSSIBLE for me to write anything in this post, without reading the update. Ur just looking for ways to define me, without lookin at facts.... and yeah this is the moment in which i can't take u serious anymore. No offense here, but this is no discussion. > > > > You've been vocal about Mirages performance in other posts and in the old forums too. Let's keep it real please. > > Oh yes i've been vocal about it, but i never touched numbers until the actual last patch came in. My other statements in most cases were about WvW and PvP, cause from day 1 i knew it would be really good there. Let's wait on that assessment shall we? The other elites have some very strong contenders and core Mesmer as well as chrono were already strong in those game modes (especially wvw) so it's not hard to assume mirage will perform well especially against inexperienced opponents. Which was never counter argued by anyone as far as I recall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dondagora.9645 Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 Now, I don't think it's fair to blame us for throwing, as @"atlashugged.7642" says, a "pity party". I assume many of us have been here a good while, and remember all the times we've been with ANet's balance. They give us a nerf and a compensation buff, then later nerf the compensation buff. Our more "fun" builds have always taken a hit and restricted our playstyle (see the Immortal Mesmer, Protecter of Tyria, Sworn Enemy of the Zerg). And yes, we whine and moan a lot. But guess what? If we don't do at least that, then ANet won't hear us. At least, that's how it has always felt. But I like to think we've also always been more or less reasonable with what we complain about. Our concerns are valid in terms of what we feel is lacking, what we feel is contradictory, and what we feel is good. Mirage Cloak is a good concept, it was lacking in coverage, and Mirrors contradict its premises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaboBabo.3581 Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 "I'm calling out someone who has constantly been shining a golden light on a damaged spec in need of attention while not offering to show his build to support his claims. Which in hindsight was bs." Ok i say it again ; i am NOT the guys who opened the "mirage is really good" thread in the old forum. While i did not post the Build i'd use in this thread, i posted it several times in other threads. I simply refused to do the math again. Here's the Build i'd use ; http://de.gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQRAna7anELD1LjVoBOoBMMjlVDzvA2AngldgjTAAdLcGqCA-jVSAQBA4kA0V1dCo+hIqSg12HgtKBDpyPP8EAW3CDrDGAmIlgZmZmGZmZmZmpUAVpsC-w Explanation ; use scepter ambushes over axe ambushes, meaning if ur close to 50 endurance on axe, while beeing close to weapon swap, u should swap and then double ambush (sigil of energy). U might wanna change endurance food with power/condi - food. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryouzanpaku.1273 Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 You gotta love the white knights :) Tbh I do not care that much about numbers - these can be fixed by one handed monkey who knows that 2 bananas are more then 1 banana... What is bothering me are clunky and disfunctional mechanics Mirage got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortrialus.3062 Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 > @mortrialus.3062 said: > > @FaboBabo.3581 said: > > 100% mirrage will delete players in WvW and PvP roaming. It never was easier to pull out 3 illusions in the start of a fight like it is with mirrage. U dont need ur Phantasms for the opening burst shatter combo anymore and can use it afterwards. Deceptive evasion dodge- First clone , sword ambush , second clone , jaunt self deception third clone. Bunkering Points with F4 into 3 possible mirrors all near the points -> u wanna stay on point anyways in most cases, therefore less worries about positioning. Illusionary ambush 10 sec cd reduced to 20 seconds is huge too... > > > > And yeah for Pve i expect something like 30k dps. Not perfect for raiding, cause no group support, but still totally solid to play. > > There's nooooo way based on current numbers Mirage is getting close to 30k dps. Condition mesmer is 26k dps and Mirage is a slight upgrade over that at best. I was wrong. Mirage is hitting 31k-33k. Not bad, but not great, especially since you need all three utilities and your elite skill to do it so you provide 0 utility while doing this much damage. Condi Mirage needing both Signet of Midnight and Signet of Domination for it's very mediocre damage is not good. It would be nice if the stats were baked into our traits elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenith.7301 Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 > @mortrialus.3062 said: > > @mortrialus.3062 said: > > > @FaboBabo.3581 said: > > > 100% mirrage will delete players in WvW and PvP roaming. It never was easier to pull out 3 illusions in the start of a fight like it is with mirrage. U dont need ur Phantasms for the opening burst shatter combo anymore and can use it afterwards. Deceptive evasion dodge- First clone , sword ambush , second clone , jaunt self deception third clone. Bunkering Points with F4 into 3 possible mirrors all near the points -> u wanna stay on point anyways in most cases, therefore less worries about positioning. Illusionary ambush 10 sec cd reduced to 20 seconds is huge too... > > > > > > And yeah for Pve i expect something like 30k dps. Not perfect for raiding, cause no group support, but still totally solid to play. > > > > There's nooooo way based on current numbers Mirage is getting close to 30k dps. Condition mesmer is 26k dps and Mirage is a slight upgrade over that at best. > > I was wrong. Mirage is hitting 31k-33k. Not bad, but not great, especially since you need all three utilities and your elite skill to do it so you provide 0 utility while doing this much damage. > > Condi Mirage needing both Signet of Midnight and Signet of Domination for it's very mediocre damage is not good. It would be nice if the stats were baked into our traits elsewhere. Mesmer/Mirage utilities suck, but the signets are not one for them. We use the signets because they are a throughput increase and no other utility is even relevant outside maybe the occasional Feedback. We can't use phantasm utilities because they compete with our DPS phantasms. We can't use mantras because their effects are anemic. Can't use deception because creating clones or teleporting around is largely useless in PvE. The problem is Robert Gee has pretty much designed the class from the ground up with PvP primarily in mind. Bunch of useless interrupt traits in Domination traitline that do nothing in PvE. Bunch of shatter traits in chaos that do nothing in PvE because shatters are a DPS loss. Of our traitlines, only dueling and illusions are half decent, and only illusions really offers throughput traits whereas duueling's only value is in the pistol adept trait. Mesmer is a class that just farts out useless illusions in PvE. It doesn't have the numbers, it doesn't have the utility. Moa Signet is only good on a breakbar and yet has a humongous 180 sec cd in PvE for some ridiculous reason when it should be closer to 60 seconds in PvE. Mantra of Distraction should be a 2 second stun or a 2 sec aoe daze in PvE to be more useful with breakbars. The only utilities worth a damn are chronomancer wells, and we don't have access to those outside chrono. Mantra of pain could have been relevant a long time ago on PvE by split balancing, but they absolutely refuse to do split balancing except once every other 6 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitta.3657 Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 I have not tried PvP/WvW yet, been consumed by PvE this whole time but from playing Mirage my concerns remained the same. The feel of the spec has improved but the major flaws still exist, clearly. I have some opinions to share; - **Infinite Horizon should be baseline. No if or but.** It is what makes Mirage what it is, accompanied to the change to our dodge roll as well of course. I would suggest replacing the trait with one that would let our phantasms use ambushes and create phantasms specific ambushes. Currently, you're punished for having phantasms when your phantasms are still mesmer's bulk damage in PvE. - Mirrors are simply an useless mechanic in their current form. Need rework. - Utilities do not compete with baseline utilities whatsoever in my opinion. None of them bring me something that would make me slot them over besides from Jaunt. This is an issue with mesmer overall, having in general amazing utilities that make it hard to replace for other choices. I can't see myself choosing these over my core mesmer utilities for damage in PvE nor even in PvP/WvW since they don't really bring out utility that I'd require. I am really not a fan of them. - Half of the ambushes are weak. If Anet wants to have ambush skills that aren't about damage (which I agree with), they need to be more in line with Mirage Thrust with a better utility out of them. I don't know how I feel about Chaos Vortex... still is so slow. Split Surge and Imaginary Axes are terrible, they don't bring anything worth using your ambush for and they're not even "free damage after a dodge" at this point. They need reworks or substantial number tuning. At the very least, these are my impressions on them thus far and I have not read through the whole thread but if someone has found something about the 3 lacking ambushes I have not realized yet hit me up because I'd love to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenith.7301 Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 Utility ambushes would be an error as that's what makes them worthless in PvE as they replaced your autoattack, completely gimping your DPS. It's why power mirage is worthless in PvE besides the fact there are no supporting traits whatsoever for power specs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tnhalbertsma.7682 Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 > @Zenith.7301 said: > Utility ambushes would be an error as that's what makes them worthless in PvE as they replaced your autoattack, completely gimping your DPS. It's why power mirage is worthless in PvE besides the fact there are no supporting traits whatsoever for power specs. Wut, I'm running a power spec with only 1 trait 'wasted', and not even that cause it's the one that causes crits to bleed (not a 'loss'). Chance on stun when dazing make you a stun/daze machine (also increased duration on both) with Sword Ambush and Sword 4 as well as traits increasing damage on disabled targets. There's even more than enough things interchangeable, maybe try fiddling with the builds some more before coming to a final decision after trying it for 2-3 days tops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levetty.1279 Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 > @tnhalbertsma.7682 said: > > @Zenith.7301 said: > > Utility ambushes would be an error as that's what makes them worthless in PvE as they replaced your autoattack, completely gimping your DPS. It's why power mirage is worthless in PvE besides the fact there are no supporting traits whatsoever for power specs. > > Wut, I'm running a power spec with only 1 trait 'wasted', and not even that cause it's the one that causes crits to bleed (not a 'loss'). > > Chance on stun when dazing make you a stun/daze machine (also increased duration on both) with Sword Ambush and Sword 4 as well as traits increasing damage on disabled targets. > > There's even more than enough things interchangeable, maybe try fiddling with the builds some more before coming to a final decision after trying it for 2-3 days tops. All the traits you mentioned are core Mesmer traits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenith.7301 Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 Not to mention useless traits in PvE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tnhalbertsma.7682 Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 > @Levetty.1279 said: > > @tnhalbertsma.7682 said: > > > @Zenith.7301 said: > > > Utility ambushes would be an error as that's what makes them worthless in PvE as they replaced your autoattack, completely gimping your DPS. It's why power mirage is worthless in PvE besides the fact there are no supporting traits whatsoever for power specs. > > > > Wut, I'm running a power spec with only 1 trait 'wasted', and not even that cause it's the one that causes crits to bleed (not a 'loss'). > > > > Chance on stun when dazing make you a stun/daze machine (also increased duration on both) with Sword Ambush and Sword 4 as well as traits increasing damage on disabled targets. > > > > There's even more than enough things interchangeable, maybe try fiddling with the builds some more before coming to a final decision after trying it for 2-3 days tops. > > All the traits you mentioned are core Mesmer traits. What? Yes, and that's the thing, you combine and synergise for an attempt at reaching greater heights (or just a change of pace). I only mentioned that one trait because it was the ONLY one that was 'wrong' with my build other than relying on crits (while rocking a high crit %). The stuns and stuff that are nice from CORE MESMER synergise with MIRAGE. I fail to comprehend what in particular was so hard to understand in my previous comment, unless you don't understand the basic concept of character builds ofcourse. Mirage traitline doesn't have to have straight up Power, Crit or Ferocity boosts to synergise with core Mesmer, there's other possibilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenith.7301 Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 > @tnhalbertsma.7682 said: > > @Levetty.1279 said: > > > @tnhalbertsma.7682 said: > > > > @Zenith.7301 said: > > > > Utility ambushes would be an error as that's what makes them worthless in PvE as they replaced your autoattack, completely gimping your DPS. It's why power mirage is worthless in PvE besides the fact there are no supporting traits whatsoever for power specs. > > > > > > Wut, I'm running a power spec with only 1 trait 'wasted', and not even that cause it's the one that causes crits to bleed (not a 'loss'). > > > > > > Chance on stun when dazing make you a stun/daze machine (also increased duration on both) with Sword Ambush and Sword 4 as well as traits increasing damage on disabled targets. > > > > > > There's even more than enough things interchangeable, maybe try fiddling with the builds some more before coming to a final decision after trying it for 2-3 days tops. > > > > All the traits you mentioned are core Mesmer traits. > > What? Yes, and that's the thing, you combine and synergise for an attempt at reaching greater heights (or just a change of pace). I only mentioned that one trait because it was the ONLY one that was 'wrong' with my build other than relying on crits (while rocking a high crit %). > The stuns and stuff that are nice from CORE MESMER synergise with MIRAGE. I fail to comprehend what in particular was so hard to understand in my previous comment, unless you don't understand the basic concept of character builds ofcourse. > > Mirage traitline doesn't have to have straight up Power, Crit or Ferocity boosts to synergise with core Mesmer, there's other possibilities. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomalu.7152 Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Overall I had fun playing as a mirage, but still there are a few things that frustrate me. I really wish, that both core mesmer and mirage had significant changes made to them. I'm speaking strictly about **PVE**. 1) **Mirage cloak **- sure first you need to get used to it, but even then sometimes you just lack movent to the side or to the back. I learned to compensate it sometimes with jaunt, but I don't think that it should be the way to deal with it - right now I feel that I must have jaunt slotted as a mirage. Anyway, I think superspeed should be integrated into mirage cloak, and not be a minor trait. 2) **Ambush skills** - I mostly was running around with axe, but also used a scepter a few times. It seems that there is an internal cd, and in case you dodge twice in a row only one ambush skill goes off, which feels clunky. It is difficult for me to think as part of rotation, as I have dodge/mirror in order to use them. Also, sometimes, when you have to get out of aoe, you have to turn away from the mob, so your ambush skill is wasted. Right now, ambush skills don't feel impactful. I would understand if they were instant casts, then it would be "just an extra damage during dodge", but currently they seems just lackluster in terms of effect. 3) **Mirrors** - I definitely don't like the current state of mirrors, as most of the times I either grab them by accident or use jaunt/dodge to get them or they just disappear, because they weren't worth it. 4) **Shatter** - during the weekend I ran with clone generating build (deceptive evasion, deception skill create a clone) - but still was hesistant to use shatter skills during long fights, as they feel as a dps loss. Cry of Frustration, specifically, is way too weak for such cd. Also, F3 and F4 - I don't really understand why we should sacrifice dps to get utility/survivabily with rather long cooldown. Right I can't tell whether we're supposed to shatter as mirage or not. If yes - then shatters should be a major gain, if not - I think shatters should be changed to other mechanics. 5) **Phantasm** - I really dislike the play style "spawn three phantasm and then auto attack" - this is really boring and unengaging. And phantasm currently doesn't feel like a part of mirage, rather than a nuisance for this elite spec. And at the same time it's a huge loss to shatter them. I wonder if phantasm concept should be reworked completely - cause right now there are conflcts "phantasm and shatters" and "clones and phantasms". 6) **Clones** - I liked using axe 3 and illusionary ambush with a bunch of clones, at least it looked cool to me. Though IA sometimes spawned me away from the targeted mob. I don't know about whole "make Infinite Horizon baseline" - cause it depends how developers see the mirage playstyle: a) If clones are meant to be shattered, than it's a pvp trait. But it won't fool anyone, except new players. b) if clones are meant to fight alongside, then it should be made baseline - as there will be nice and cool synergy between clones and ambushes. 7) **Utility skills** - well, to be frankly speaking I started with utility skills as deceptions. By the end of the first day I kept False Oasis as a heal skill, though I don't like the mirror part ( because I don't like mirror mechanic in general), Illusionary Ambush - as a gap closer/target switching tool, and Jaunt, cause it seems necessary due to superspeed flaws. Mirage Advance - cast feels way too long for a blink. Crystal Sands - seems weak and dull. Sand through glass - ok, I guess. But not really memorable. 8) **Elite** - Jaunt. Right now I think of Jaunt as necessary addition to mirage cloak, if I need to get out of AoE. Though it's range should 600. In a perfect world - Jaunt would our F5 and speed of sand would a part of mirage cloak. It doesn't feel game changing for me. I'm pretty sure, that in group pve I will be required to use time warp/moa. Cause Jaunt right now doesn't provide great group utility or a major increase in personal dps. 9) **Axe skills**: Axe 2 - long animation - very vulnerable during it. Clone spawn condition seems weird. Axe 3 - I like it, even if it's not really strong. 10) **Mesmer's condition damage** - the thing I don't like it all, that in order to have good conditon damage I have to use two signets in utility slots( of midnight,and of domination. I don't like the general idea of sighets, and when I have to use two of them ( for condition damage and condition duration) - make me feel really restricted in my choice. I think, at least, bonus for sighnet of midnight, should be moved elsewhere. Trait options for condition damage are quite limited or mediocre. I wish for a set of traits in a couple of specialization, that have a synergy. Mirage - the only trait I trait like for conditon damage build -is GM Dune Cloak. Others feel lackluster. If Mirage is a melee conditon spec, in my opinion, its traits should complement it's playstyle in different ways. Right now, that trairs in this elite spec are for every possible game style, which I don't think is reasonable, as we get - Jack of all trades - master of none situation P.S. I really like addon right now, but I wish my favorite class had got some love, so we could be a good dps spec, that has a spot in raids and fractals. I understand, that we have a lot of utility, but some classes (e.g. guardian) still have high dps option despite of having good utility. I understand that it will take considerable amount of time to solve all the problems mesmer class has right now. But right now I'm not even sure if anet thinks, that mesmers have problems - it would be great if we could get some sort of feedback regarding that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tnhalbertsma.7682 Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 > @Zenith.7301 said: > > @tnhalbertsma.7682 said: > > > @Levetty.1279 said: > > > > @tnhalbertsma.7682 said: > > > > > @Zenith.7301 said: > > > > > Utility ambushes would be an error as that's what makes them worthless in PvE as they replaced your autoattack, completely gimping your DPS. It's why power mirage is worthless in PvE besides the fact there are no supporting traits whatsoever for power specs. > > > > > > > > Wut, I'm running a power spec with only 1 trait 'wasted', and not even that cause it's the one that causes crits to bleed (not a 'loss'). > > > > > > > > Chance on stun when dazing make you a stun/daze machine (also increased duration on both) with Sword Ambush and Sword 4 as well as traits increasing damage on disabled targets. > > > > > > > > There's even more than enough things interchangeable, maybe try fiddling with the builds some more before coming to a final decision after trying it for 2-3 days tops. > > > > > > All the traits you mentioned are core Mesmer traits. > > > > What? Yes, and that's the thing, you combine and synergise for an attempt at reaching greater heights (or just a change of pace). I only mentioned that one trait because it was the ONLY one that was 'wrong' with my build other than relying on crits (while rocking a high crit %). > > The stuns and stuff that are nice from CORE MESMER synergise with MIRAGE. I fail to comprehend what in particular was so hard to understand in my previous comment, unless you don't understand the basic concept of character builds ofcourse. > > > > Mirage traitline doesn't have to have straight up Power, Crit or Ferocity boosts to synergise with core Mesmer, there's other possibilities. > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect Hahahaha jesus christ, you're a funny one. You're really throwing psych shit around here? Trust me, I'm aware of the existence of bias. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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