Necrid.9601 Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 > @Dadnir.5038 said: > I think at this point there are a few misunderstanding running around... > > With greater shade, you'll still provide support to a whole raid (in PvE): 5 character taken care by you and 5 by your shade. Based on what the notes say, it seems like the necro themselves also only covers 3 people. So with greater shade you are up to covering 8 people, not 10. Best thing I can say about this is that, at the very least, Anet is consistent with screwing necros over from being a good class. There is something to be said of consistency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maunzi.3764 Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 > @Necrid.9601 said: > > @Dadnir.5038 said: > > I think at this point there are a few misunderstanding running around... > > > > With greater shade, you'll still provide support to a whole raid (in PvE): 5 character taken care by you and 5 by your shade. > > Based on what the notes say, it seems like the necro themselves also only covers 3 people. So with greater shade you are up to covering 8 people, not 10. > Best thing I can say about this is that, at the very least, Anet is consistent with screwing necros over from being a good class. There is something to be said of consistency. No, this supposedly does up it to 10 people. The problem is that the opportunity cost of this is our damage :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muchacho.2390 Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 > @Necrid.9601 said: > > @Dadnir.5038 said: > > I think at this point there are a few misunderstanding running around... > > > > With greater shade, you'll still provide support to a whole raid (in PvE): 5 character taken care by you and 5 by your shade. > > Based on what the notes say, it seems like the necro themselves also only covers 3 people. So with greater shade you are up to covering 8 people, not 10. > Best thing I can say about this is that, at the very least, Anet is consistent with screwing necros over from being a good class. There is something to be said of consistency. Wrong with sand savant is is 10 people. Dont forget it also increases the cap for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kschmidt.5901 Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 Does yourself count as a target for target caps? If so, it would be nice to remove that for the shade skills. That way ones emanating from you hit yourself+3 and each shade hits 3. You can cover a full 10 people (counting yourself) that way with two shades out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardRider.2980 Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 Honestly.. and it's no over exaggeration ...The hype train... Just now feels... like a normal train... This is actually rather depressing. I'd rather they'd hit us with the nerf bat hours later after launch so I could of remained hyped form the moment it hits.. I'll main necro till i die or this game dies... But I only ever tell people to play necro if they're crazy.. like myself.. it's just... not even funny anymore.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Necrid.9601 Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 > @Maunzi.3764 said: > No, this supposedly does up it to 10 people. The problem is that the opportunity cost of this is our damage :( > @Muchacho.2390 said: > Wrong with sand savant is is 10 people. Dont forget it also increases the cap for you. Missed that when reading the notes, my bad. Still, if you have to give up Demonic Lore for Sand Savant, then your damage is worse in order to cover your whole raid with a worse mechanic than healing is. Essentially a worse druid. The class might be fun in open world but as it is, I'm sticking with power Reaper to just have fun and will play my Berserker if I actually want to be useful in raids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadnir.5038 Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 > @Shiki.7148 said: > > @Dadnir.5038 said: > > I think at this point there are a few misunderstanding running around... > > > > With greater shade, you'll still provide support to a whole raid (in PvE): 5 character taken care by you and 5 by your shade. > > Nobody say that the change aren't a good move for WvW. Those change mainly hurt PvE. > > Scourge benefit from tools that are usefull in WvW/PvP (boon corruption and condition cleanse) but are not really usefull in most of the PvE content. > > The barrier mechanism never had the potential to replace a healer. > > The offensive means of the scourge are very effective against player because their survivability and offense rely heavily on boons. In PvE content mobs do not rely on boons, they rely on their base stat and base health, that why scourge was already at a disadvantage in this gamemode. > > > > These change will probably make the scourge an healthier specialization in both PvP and WvW. These changes will barely affect the PvE support, however they will hit hard the PvE DPS because, while before these change were annouced, no vitality gear were still a decent option to chose, now it will be almost mandatory to thread this road. In a way, it make _vital persistence_ even more needed than it was before. > > Never said you could not support the whole raid with Savant. But you need to use Savant, which is an effing Grandmaster trait, and makes our dps plummet due to losing demonic lore. At which point we lose the only advantage we might have had over other "pure support" specs, dealing more damage. Well, I don't find it shocking that anet try to make a support trait fight against a dps trait. Even more, It only reduce condi dps, the scourge is not all about condi damage, the power scourge have already the tools to outdps the power necromancer (that's not much, sure, but it's a fact). Players focus so much on the condi side, that they disregard the power side. To reach their top dps, PvE scourges will need dagger MH and this is a power weapon, the condi traits, utility and weapon sure look sexy but the poor LF gen only say one thing for raids: "Play power scourge!". Scepter will nerf your ability to use shroud skills, staff will nerf your damage altogether and dagger will nerf your condi damage. The only solution is to rely on a dagger power build even if it's counterintuitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meeflak.9714 Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 > @Shadowresli.3782 said: > > @UnDeadFun.5824 said: > > Please stop nerfing Necro in pve for pvp and wvw "balance". Please. > > yeah, continue to ruin wvw for pve and pvp balance issues, like you do since 2012 Splitting skill balance is a thing in gw2, you know.... They could have just done that.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maunzi.3764 Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 > @Dadnir.5038 said: > Well, I don't find it shocking that anet try to make a support trait fight against a dps trait. And yet we have Warriors, who can spec into support, have full DPS, and multiple unique buffs that massively boost their group's DPS. Without giving up damage. >Even more, It only reduce condi dps, the scourge is not all about condi damage, the power scourge have already the tools to outdps the power necromancer (that's not much, sure, but it's a fact). Players focus so much on the condi side, that they disregard the power side. To reach their top dps, PvE scourges will need dagger MH and this is a power weapon, the condi traits, utility and weapon sure look kitten but the poor LF gen only say one thing for raids: "Play power scourge!". Scepter will nerf your ability to use shroud skills, staff will nerf your damage altogether and dagger will nerf your condi damage. The only solution is to rely on a dagger power build even if it's counterintuitive. I am willing to try power, but this actually looks worse than condition. Speccing into Sand Savant instead of Demonic Lore does not REDUCE your damage technically, what it does is remove scaling. The problem being that scourge offers fairly low scaling for power to begin with. Shade skills? They'd do what, 1k damage per hit? That's some damage, certainly, but it doesn't seem good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostt.1293 Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 never wanted to have SAND shroud on a SCOURGE but ye..... #GiveUsBurningFlamingShroud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyel.1843 Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 Some peopel are really overexaggerating the "nerf". Less whining and maybe a bit more theorycrafting and thinking outside of boxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maunzi.3764 Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 > @Nyel.1843 said: > Some peopel are really overexaggerating the "nerf". Less whining and maybe a bit more theorycrafting and thinking outside of boxes. You need to start thinking and theorycrafting. Then you will understand the severity of the nerf. Hint: It has to do with what does damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medlar.7450 Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 Good thing I don't care about barrier, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludovicus.7980 Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 I don't get why is s.h.a.d.e.s censored into kitten while shade isn't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigmoid.7082 Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 > @Maunzi.3764 said: > > @Nyel.1843 said: > > Some peopel are really overexaggerating the "nerf". Less whining and maybe a bit more theorycrafting and thinking outside of boxes. > > You need to start thinking and theorycrafting. Then you will understand the severity of the nerf. > Hint: It has to do with what does damage. No need to be obtuse . Would you care to explain then please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pah.4931 Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 > @Ludovicus.7980 said: > I don't get why is s.h.a.d.e.s censored into kitten while shade isn't A theory: The word hades (listed as a synonym for hell) -- this presupposes that hell is censored and also it's synonyms. Which would be silly. And just in case none of that made sense because my theory is correct. h.a.d.e.s h.e.l.l Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pah.4931 Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 > @pah.4931 said: > > @Ludovicus.7980 said: > > I don't get why is s.h.a.d.e.s censored into kitten while shade isn't > > A theory: > > The word hades (listed as a synonym for kitten) -- this presupposes that kitten is censored and also it's synonyms. Which would be silly. And just in case none of that made sense because my theory is correct. > > h.a.d.e.s > h.e.l.l THE PLOT THICKENS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rym.1469 Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 tfw name of your profession mechanic is banned on forums FeelsNecroMan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyel.1843 Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 > @Maunzi.3764 said: > > @Nyel.1843 said: > > Some peopel are really overexaggerating the "nerf". Less whining and maybe a bit more theorycrafting and thinking outside of boxes. > > You need to start thinking and theorycrafting. Then you will understand the severity of the nerf. > Hint: It has to do with what does damage. It's the first iteration of PoF on live servers. We will see many balance patches within the first weeks. You just need to wait and don't stick your head into the sand and go into whine-mode. If nothing changes within the first 4 weeks or so we can start whining but right now before the game has been released... no, just no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyel.1843 Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 > @Ludovicus.7980 said: > I don't get why is s.h.a.d.e.s censored into kitten while shade isn't 50 kittens of Grey! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helbjorne.9368 Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 Until ArenaNet splits balance between PvE and PvP we're never going to have balance in this game because one or the other is going to get the short end of the stick. This is something the community has been begging for since the beginning, and yet ArenaNet ignores our pleas in favor of saving a few dollars. There are some abilities that already balanced separately for PvP, such as Endure Pain, so they really need to just bite the bullet and rework all skills so that both sides can be satisfied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maunzi.3764 Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 > @Sigmoid.7082 said: > > @Maunzi.3764 said: > > > @Nyel.1843 said: > > > Some peopel are really overexaggerating the "nerf". Less whining and maybe a bit more theorycrafting and thinking outside of boxes. > > > > You need to start thinking and theorycrafting. Then you will understand the severity of the nerf. > > Hint: It has to do with what does damage. > > No need to be obtuse . Would you care to explain then please? Scourge was already starved for life force even when using dagger. The two main skills to do damage on scourge got increased life force cost. It's not rocket science. The life force gain is already mapped out, so we know the impact, and it's pretty bad. Next, look at our minors. The change to shade duration means that we cannot even keep up 2 shades any longer, even at 100% alacrity. This means a nerf to both minors, making us lose condition duration. Next, look at the support we give. It has a fatal flaw, in its range. This is why people say that Torch 5 hardly ever works. Our shades have the same problem. With the exception of the torch, these problems are solved by removing Demonic Lore and picking Sand Savant. The problem is that this removes a good chunk of DPS. Next, consider that raids have limited spots. You cannot take 11 people. You take 10 or less. This means that Scourge should be able to do as much as other classes, or provide significant support. So, direct damage? Nope. Power build looks incredibly weak. Condi? Wasn't even that strong when we tested it, and is now nerfed in multiple angles, many of which are indirect (such as the limited uptime of shades or the life force cost). Support? Adds zero damage potential to other classes, provides no unique buffs other than barrier, and barrier itself degenerates very quickly. So, tell me why you'd pick this for a raid group when you can easily grab a cPS warrior that does better support and better damage? Why over a druid that does better support and, due to GoTL, adds more damage? Why over a DPS spot, when those all do more? That's the problem. Thinking outside the box does not really solve this. You need to think inside the box first, and realize all the indirect ways this caused nerfs for us before you can even START with thinking outside of the box. Perhaps it will turn out that the box was in your mind all along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peach Pinky.6501 Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 So the elementalist gets to remain top DPS for literal years, still effecting 5 people, the engineer gets to remain high utility for literal years, the guardian maintains a comfy spot even with zerker gear despite being a low HP class, and the druid still gets to effect 5 people with their stuff too, and lets not forget that chronomancer in raid is king for their 5 man quickness spam, but the second the necromancer has any semblance of power or actual real use for a game mode outside of WvW you nerf them **yet again** to the point where they barely function? Why not just reduce ratios to the point where maintain a 5 man support instead of having them be the only support class that can't effect 5 people? There doesn't appear to be any logic behind this decision and it seems hypocritical at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProtoGunner.4953 Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 I love when the ridiculous overprotective profanity filter kicks in and fucks up the post of a developer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiazi.1250 Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 It looks like shades is a derogatory term for police in some areas, for those who were also baffled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now