Jzaku.9765 Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 > @Kuulpb.5412 said: > My issue here is, since counter will no longer interrupt your auto attacks, doesn't that mean you can't use it "when you need to block" ? It now means you have to stop actions and then use it? This worries me greatly as it isn't a QoL change, it's most likely hindering the use. > > Edit: Fixed my Spelling (Hopefully) I'm pretty sure it's just a bugfix for how you stopped auto attacking after full counter and had to press 1 to get it going again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahlen.7591 Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 > @Ferus.3165 said: > Warrior doesn't need more damage on daggers. Even if it's not very high, that's not what this elite is for. > > But warrior does need something else and that is boonremoval on dagger autoattack chain. Right now Mesmers and Necro do a far better job at removing or even corrupting boons. For the warrior elite, which is mostly melee without any new means of gapclosing and not a high dmg output, it is sad that warrior is still outclassed in the very thing that defines this elite. I'll preface this by stating that I don't care at all about PVP or WvW. Yes, dagger needs more damage. Power warrior in general needs more damage. Condi does nearly TRIPLE the sustained DPS of power at the moment. This game doesn't need another scrapper - a spec that's basically worthless in more than half of the games modes. If that means a damage buff for PVE ONLY for daggers, then that is what needs to happen. I do agree though that for a spec designed for boon removal, spellbreaker is REALLY crappy at boon removal compared to other profs. Not to mention that boon removal is flat out less effective than boon corruption. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikeskies.1536 Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 > @Ahlen.7591 said: > > @Ferus.3165 said: > > Warrior doesn't need more damage on daggers. Even if it's not very high, that's not what this elite is for. > > > > But warrior does need something else and that is boonremoval on dagger autoattack chain. Right now Mesmers and Necro do a far better job at removing or even corrupting boons. For the warrior elite, which is mostly melee without any new means of gapclosing and not a high dmg output, it is sad that warrior is still outclassed in the very thing that defines this elite. > > I'll preface this by stating that I don't care at all about PVP or WvW. Yes, dagger needs more damage. Power warrior in general needs more damage. Condi does nearly TRIPLE the sustained DPS of power at the moment. > > This game doesn't need another scrapper - a spec that's basically worthless in more than half of the games modes. If that means a damage buff for PVE ONLY for daggers, then that is what needs to happen. > > I do agree though that for a spec designed for boon removal, spellbreaker is REALLY crappy at boon removal compared to other profs. Not to mention that boon removal is flat out less effective than boon corruption. Spellbreaker/Dagger auto damage scales with Ferocity, and perhaps is the Devs way to separate dagger damage between PvE and PvP. In a PvE setup, a power Spellbreaker can reach well over 300% critical damage vs 187% critical damage in a sPvP setup. The critical damage bonuses are more than likely multiplicative (see Thief trait "Twin Fangs"), which means, using for example 312% critical damage, 3.12 X 1.14 x 1.15 = 410% critical damage on auto-attacks, vs 1.87 x 1.14 x 1.15 = 245% critical damage on auto-attacks: a difference of 165% critical damage--> 67% more critical damage (and with 100% critical, just flat out 67% more base damage). The DPS capability of Dagger auto and Spellbreaker in general is a function of how much critical damage you have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahlen.7591 Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 > @Mikeskies.1536 said: > > @Ahlen.7591 said: > > > @Ferus.3165 said: > > > Warrior doesn't need more damage on daggers. Even if it's not very high, that's not what this elite is for. > > > > > > But warrior does need something else and that is boonremoval on dagger autoattack chain. Right now Mesmers and Necro do a far better job at removing or even corrupting boons. For the warrior elite, which is mostly melee without any new means of gapclosing and not a high dmg output, it is sad that warrior is still outclassed in the very thing that defines this elite. > > > > I'll preface this by stating that I don't care at all about PVP or WvW. Yes, dagger needs more damage. Power warrior in general needs more damage. Condi does nearly TRIPLE the sustained DPS of power at the moment. > > > > This game doesn't need another scrapper - a spec that's basically worthless in more than half of the games modes. If that means a damage buff for PVE ONLY for daggers, then that is what needs to happen. > > > > I do agree though that for a spec designed for boon removal, spellbreaker is REALLY crappy at boon removal compared to other profs. Not to mention that boon removal is flat out less effective than boon corruption. > > Spellbreaker/Dagger auto damage scales with Ferocity, and perhaps is the Devs way to separate dagger damage between PvE and PvP. In a PvE setup, a power Spellbreaker can reach well over 300% critical damage vs 187% critical damage in a sPvP setup. The critical damage bonuses are more than likely multiplicative (see Thief trait "Twin Fangs"), which means, using for example 312% critical damage, 3.12 X 1.14 x 1.15 = 410% critical damage on auto-attacks, vs 1.87 x 1.14 x 1.15 = 245% critical damage on auto-attacks: a difference of 165% critical damage--> 67% more critical damage (and with 100% critical, just flat out 67% more base damage). The DPS capability of Dagger auto and Spellbreaker in general is a function of how much critical damage you have. Real game testing shows daggers to be very weak on the damage, even with ONLY PURE zerker gear. This could be that daggers suck (they do) but this could also be a symptom of the fact that power warrior needs buffs very badly. We'll see what they mean by 'burst changes', but unless those changes are "Reverted berserker power to work off of level 1 bursts for SB and Berserker" then I don't expect dagger/spellbreaker to ever be useful in PVE. And to me that is not ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiroshima.8497 Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 My only concern is the part how spellbreaker is not very... anti boon or anti-spells. You get boon rips only on hard CC, minus Taunt (Imminent Threat) and Fear (Fear Me). This means that if you are using MH/OH Sword, MH/OH Axe, GS, Longbow, OH Dagger, or Warhorn, you are limited to the other weapon or your whopping 1 boon strip utility and 1 elite for boon strip. That's terrible. 8/14 weapons have 0 synergy with the elite. On the flip side, hammer and mace are amazing with this spec, as is shield to a degree. Rifle does have hard CC, but its usage is extremely limited. MH dagger's weapon skills have no spellbreaker themes built in by default, only the burst skill does. So by default, spellbreaker is mostly just there for full counter, which applies an aoe daze, counts as a burst (warrior synergy), grants stability, is unblockable, and is an "evade". I mean it's basically as loaded as Thief's Steal is (when traited). And speaking of Thief Steal, that thing has huge boon hate properties on an instant cast, 900 range shadow step (when traited, which you should). Bountiful Theft not only destroys THREE boons on the target, but it also gives them to the thief AND his friends. With acrobatics you can do it twice in a 20 second time period for a total of 6 boons stolen. Warrior, assuming he is built for MAXIMUM (aka hammer and gives up Revenge Counter for more boon hate) boon rip can deny his enemy: Hammer 4, Hammer 5, Hammer Burst, Break Enchantments (assumes you have 2 stances), and the Elite. Ok, that's a lot, but how reliable are they? All of these have cast times, and only 1 is a leap (600 range). They're practically all reactable by anything with stability, which instantly negates your ability to strip boons minus Break Enchantments and the Elite, but both of these skills are very short range as they are point blank aoes. Which makes use go back to relying on Full Counter. An unblockable aoe daze that gives you stab and evasion. Thus, Full Counter Warrior, not Spellbreaker. Now Enchantment Collapse has HUGE potential for boon destruction on AoE attacks, but its radius is tiny making it shaky in terms of reliability, and you still have to put the warrior in serious danger anyways (aka melee range) to start the boon destruction. Huge risk, low pay off when you could just use enemy boons as ammo for your Necros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikeskies.1536 Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 > @Ahlen.7591 said: > > @Mikeskies.1536 said: > > > @Ahlen.7591 said: > > > > @Ferus.3165 said: > > > > Warrior doesn't need more damage on daggers. Even if it's not very high, that's not what this elite is for. > > > > > > > > But warrior does need something else and that is boonremoval on dagger autoattack chain. Right now Mesmers and Necro do a far better job at removing or even corrupting boons. For the warrior elite, which is mostly melee without any new means of gapclosing and not a high dmg output, it is sad that warrior is still outclassed in the very thing that defines this elite. > > > > > > I'll preface this by stating that I don't care at all about PVP or WvW. Yes, dagger needs more damage. Power warrior in general needs more damage. Condi does nearly TRIPLE the sustained DPS of power at the moment. > > > > > > This game doesn't need another scrapper - a spec that's basically worthless in more than half of the games modes. If that means a damage buff for PVE ONLY for daggers, then that is what needs to happen. > > > > > > I do agree though that for a spec designed for boon removal, spellbreaker is REALLY crappy at boon removal compared to other profs. Not to mention that boon removal is flat out less effective than boon corruption. > > > > Spellbreaker/Dagger auto damage scales with Ferocity, and perhaps is the Devs way to separate dagger damage between PvE and PvP. In a PvE setup, a power Spellbreaker can reach well over 300% critical damage vs 187% critical damage in a sPvP setup. The critical damage bonuses are more than likely multiplicative (see Thief trait "Twin Fangs"), which means, using for example 312% critical damage, 3.12 X 1.14 x 1.15 = 410% critical damage on auto-attacks, vs 1.87 x 1.14 x 1.15 = 245% critical damage on auto-attacks: a difference of 165% critical damage--> 67% more critical damage (and with 100% critical, just flat out 67% more base damage). The DPS capability of Dagger auto and Spellbreaker in general is a function of how much critical damage you have. > > Real game testing shows daggers to be very weak on the damage, even with ONLY PURE zerker gear. > > This could be that daggers kitten (they do) but this could also be a symptom of the fact that power warrior needs buffs very badly. > > We'll see what they mean by 'burst changes', but unless those changes are "Reverted berserker power to work off of level 1 bursts for SB and Berserker" then I don't expect dagger/spellbreaker to ever be useful in PVE. And to me that is not ok. I tested daggers and I agree the auto chain felt weak. It might be different under Training Area conditions with full buffs. Power warrior in general needs a buff, and its not based on lack of damage modifiers. Dragonhunter has an equivalent amount of damage modifiers to Berserker. It's just the fact that DH Greatsword and Scepter have better base number and DH has multiple sources of damage in the form of symbols and traps on top of direct weapon damage. Warrior/Berserker only has weapon skills and those weapon skills base numbers are too low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahlen.7591 Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 > @Mikeskies.1536 said: > > @Ahlen.7591 said: > > > @Mikeskies.1536 said: > > > > @Ahlen.7591 said: > > > > > @Ferus.3165 said: > > > > > Warrior doesn't need more damage on daggers. Even if it's not very high, that's not what this elite is for. > > > > > > > > > > But warrior does need something else and that is boonremoval on dagger autoattack chain. Right now Mesmers and Necro do a far better job at removing or even corrupting boons. For the warrior elite, which is mostly melee without any new means of gapclosing and not a high dmg output, it is sad that warrior is still outclassed in the very thing that defines this elite. > > > > > > > > I'll preface this by stating that I don't care at all about PVP or WvW. Yes, dagger needs more damage. Power warrior in general needs more damage. Condi does nearly TRIPLE the sustained DPS of power at the moment. > > > > > > > > This game doesn't need another scrapper - a spec that's basically worthless in more than half of the games modes. If that means a damage buff for PVE ONLY for daggers, then that is what needs to happen. > > > > > > > > I do agree though that for a spec designed for boon removal, spellbreaker is REALLY crappy at boon removal compared to other profs. Not to mention that boon removal is flat out less effective than boon corruption. > > > > > > Spellbreaker/Dagger auto damage scales with Ferocity, and perhaps is the Devs way to separate dagger damage between PvE and PvP. In a PvE setup, a power Spellbreaker can reach well over 300% critical damage vs 187% critical damage in a sPvP setup. The critical damage bonuses are more than likely multiplicative (see Thief trait "Twin Fangs"), which means, using for example 312% critical damage, 3.12 X 1.14 x 1.15 = 410% critical damage on auto-attacks, vs 1.87 x 1.14 x 1.15 = 245% critical damage on auto-attacks: a difference of 165% critical damage--> 67% more critical damage (and with 100% critical, just flat out 67% more base damage). The DPS capability of Dagger auto and Spellbreaker in general is a function of how much critical damage you have. > > > > Real game testing shows daggers to be very weak on the damage, even with ONLY PURE zerker gear. > > > > This could be that daggers kitten (they do) but this could also be a symptom of the fact that power warrior needs buffs very badly. > > > > We'll see what they mean by 'burst changes', but unless those changes are "Reverted berserker power to work off of level 1 bursts for SB and Berserker" then I don't expect dagger/spellbreaker to ever be useful in PVE. And to me that is not ok. > > I tested daggers and I agree the auto chain felt weak. It might be different under Training Area conditions with full buffs. Power warrior in general needs a buff, and its not based on lack of damage modifiers. Dragonhunter has an equivalent amount of damage modifiers to Berserker. It's just the fact that DH Greatsword and Scepter have better base number and DH has multiple sources of damage in the form of symbols and traps on top of direct weapon damage. Warrior/Berserker only has weapon skills and those weapon skills base numbers are too low. This is the big thing, warrior weapons across the board are too low on damage. Greatsword being one of the worst offenders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caedmon.6798 Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 > @Ferus.3165 said: > Warrior doesn't need more damage on daggers. Even if it's not very high, that's not what this elite is for. > > But warrior does need something else and that is boonremoval on dagger autoattack chain. Right now Mesmers and Necro do a far better job at removing or even corrupting boons. For the warrior elite, which is mostly melee without any new means of gapclosing and not a high dmg output, it is sad that warrior is still outclassed in the very thing that defines this elite. I remember doing 4 - 5k dagger bursts with 20+ might while being full zerk and a mediocre 600 - 1.5k autoattack.Only dagger 4 had proper damage.What will it do when you aren't full zerk or does it mean we have less choise now because you gimp yourself even more on damage while not going full zerk ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiroshima.8497 Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 I know Spellbreaker is SUPPOSED to be a power class, but what's up with the longbow burst? The tier 1 is half the size of core and berserker tier 1 longbow bursts (non-zerk mode). The duration is also super short, I can barely leap through the field with dagger 2 or sword 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reapex.8546 Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 I was hoping with the nerf to power warrior, was because of spellbreaker. However, the damage from power spellbreaker is lower than that of core warrior when I tested on the golem. Its alright, that this elite spec was focus on boon removal but could core power warrior gets buffs so it can compare to condi warrior? Right now, the damage output of condi warrior is GREATLY superior to power warrior. If anyone, found a way to let the power warrior come close to condi warrior...please, let us know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oglaf.1074 Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 > @reapex.8546 said: > If anyone, found a way to let the power warrior come close to condi warrior...please, let us know. Not happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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