Anticipated Changes

[EpicTurtle.8571]

> @"ArmageddonAsh.6430" said:

> > @"EpicTurtle.8571" said:

> > Yeah Mesmer is fairly mobile and with your 'changes' (be honest their nerfs because you're bad) they're just a pretty purple spark flitting around doing nothing since as Mist pointed out you can simply stand there while the conditions that no longer have any pressure tick off and still AA. Mobility != pressure. Nobody is going to have that imaginary dilemma between AA or use abilities. It's a surefire win versus hitting yourself in the face because maybe it'll work. Again why bother with condi clears for neutered conditions that require player input to actually do anything. Are you seriously going to argue for Mesmer burning, 3 stacks on a long cooldown. Nobody should be taking you seriously after this remark. Torment is only applied en masse if you don't bother cleaving the clones and let them finish their auto attack chain, don't dodge Axe 2, trigger the counterattack from Scepter 2, you eat a traited 3 clone shatter and the effect from the mesmer because you felt like taking a lot of damage. Confusion is the only condition you actually have a leg to stand on since the application is actually very very high and is a little more difficult to avoid. Staff cover conditions are random, literally every non vulnerability one is random and on a long cooldown and are signaled by, the glowing aura around the mesmer, the AoE you can just walk out of.

> >

> > You are so bad at manipulating facts it's laughable.

>

> Would that mean that Anet are abd as well? Seeing as how removing the passive damage would actually put it back to the way it was before they got hugely buffed due to how poor they were in PvE without ever thinking about how broken they would become in PvP. Also, for the record Its quite funny you say that im bad, would you actually EVER admit that Mesmer is without a doubt broken. There is NO way they wont be nerfed when the January update happens. The thing you SHOULD be worrying about is just how much they nerf them. Because lets face it, Anet doesnt do balanced nerfs. You have a 50% chance that it will be a tiny nerf that will do very little OR a 50% chance that it will be HUGE over nerf that will gut the class. This is how Anet works.

>

> So you mean, them standing still, able to be easily targeted for your shatters, AoE and everything would be a bad thing? Well. I guess for those that rely 100% on the conditions to do the work, this would be seen as a bad thing. For those that actually know how to play. I think they would enjoy actually needing to actually do more than wait for conditions to kill someone as they teleport and stealth around.

>

> For the same fact that if they actually WANT to do something, they would either have to remove the conditions or stand there and die. Remember, all the torment application as well so unless they just stand there and do nothing at all (which they would still die due to being a dummy target) they would ahve to MOVE to get to you, they would have to use abilities to actually threaten you, very little in terms of auto attack is really that threatening, minus Warrior. So its not as if they would stand in one place auto attack you and win (unless you're REALLY bad) they would have NO choice but to move. They would have no choice but to use abilities as they aint going to lock you down, so they would have to use CC, condi clears or whatever.

>

> Torment is applied by ranged and melee auto attacks (Axe and Scepter) it is also applied by Shatters, it is also applied by ranged attacks and melee attacks (Axe and Scepter) It is VERY easy to get 10+ stacks on people. I remember when i could EASILY get 15-20 stacks on people on my own that is without being Mirage. What was on my Hybrid Chrono build. Seeing 10k+ Confusing Images was just so good.

>

> Sorry to break it to you, i am going to guess that you're Condi. You aren't winning because you are good. Condi Mesmer is just broken. The problem is, most of the Mesmers you see now will all ditch the class and specs the moment it because harder to faceroll kill people. You're more than welcome to stick to the "oh they are bad because they lost" idea. You win because Mesmer is by FAR the best 1 Vs 1 Condi spec. Bar none.

>

>

 

Very first point, way, way more people do PvE than sPvP, balance is way more important there than here. You seem to think that condi Mesmers would then flock to a Hybrid power/condi amulet which pretty much means being about as tough as parchment paper, it's glassy and ineffective and if your opponent can still auto attack that's probably more than enough to kill the Mesmer since other classes actually have decent auto attacks. Auto attacks that cleave by the way so your "huge" torment application doesn't exist, not that it matters in your proposed changes anyway since torment is useless in that scenario. You're missing the point. Why bother taking the torment damage if you can negate it all just by standing there? What is the condi mesmer going to do? Tickle you to death with the almighty power damage from his auto attacks? "Oh but they're easy targets" you say. Easy targets for what? More conditions your changes relegated to uselessness? The only situation in which you wouldn't be completely neutered is if you're a Scepter/Pistol or Scepter/Torch Hybrid build, which again, is glassy AF and easy to take down or if you switched to Staff since you made Confusion and Torment effectively useless.

 

The reality of your changes is all it would do is make Staff Mirage a thing since who's going to bother with Confusion and Torment when you can just switch to Staff for conditions that aren't useless. And again if the mesmer is hybrid he's glass AF, easily a few AA chains until it is dead. Stop complaining about the extremely limited stealth mesmer has it's making you look stupid.

 

Let's go to your points about Torment, it's applied by Axe and Scepter that's true (Which you said this twice, either as an error or to make it look like you have more than 2 very conditional points). Let's look at each weapon in more detail. Axe has a backloaded AA chain, all of the actually damaging conditions are applied on the third attack in the chain, the chances of a clone living to that point are extremely low and if your strategy is to AA stack Torment in close range you're gonna have a bad time. You can get 3 stacks of torment from Axe 2 sure, but you're also movement locked, not guaranteed to get all 3 stacks and not evading at the same time. Let's look at scepter now, you have the AA chain which spawns a clone that only does the first attack in the chain right next to your target (cleave range). The first attack in the chain applies a stack of torment with a base 2s duration, if that's overwhelming to you, you seem to be bad. Scepter 2 is a block with a counterattack that you can still evade or just choose not to trigger. Confusing Images has 0 Torment application, and again if you're getting 10k+ damage from it, you're hybrid and going to get destroyed by anyone with a brain. Torment on shatters was only really relevant during Chrono Condi Shatter spam since IReversion and CP enabled Shatter, otherwise not doable.

 

You're not breaking anything to me, I don't have any illusions about Mesmer right now, sure it's overtuned a tad, but I also remember a couple things. The vocal sPvP community immediately complains about anything Mesmer if they die to it, regardless of it being actually OP or not. The vocal sPvP community consistently complains about 1v1s in a game mode that far more appropriately rewards proper point rotation and teamwork. Oh and also that the vocal sPvP community is the most consistently derided faction in the game and ends up ruining balance for other game modes because they actually have to change up their playstyle for once.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

I dont think they will flock to a different amulet. They are FoTM players. They will flock to the next OP class and spec. Its what they do. You see it all the time in WvW. Especially as a roamer you always get one class or spec that you see more of than any other, currently its Condi Mesmer. I have seen a few Power Mesmers but they get HUGELY out numbered by the Condi ones. When Condi Mesmer becomes slightly more balanced then i truly expect most Roamers to ditch the class and specs and move on to something else.

 

 

[dontlook.1823]

So, I just wanted to throw this out there. Elementalist DPS genuinely upsets me. It overshadows pretty much every other profession in terms of DPS. I saw last night some proposed changes to the Mesmer the balance team is excited to share. I'm stoked to hear what they have to say. But my guess is its going to just be changes around Chronomancer's alacrity buff. But I don't really want get too far ahead of myself.

 

Elementalist have had a slew of great builds for PvE and PvP/WvW for a very long time. At launch they were basically just glass cannonballs, but soon-after someone took the time to throw together a pretty OP build that dominated the scene for a very long time (Double dagger ele). For a while though this build dropped out of the meta and then there was the cele ele. Once again OP. Now Eles are in a bit of a funny spot but with lots potential as there are some really good Weaver builds out there.

 

But PvE wise. ELE has always been Tippy-Top in terms of damage and has always been in the Meta. I can't articulate an argument as to why this shouldn't be the case. But I can say, its getting really outrageous and monotonous. I wouldn't feel so bad if the margin of DPS was a lot lower than what it is now. But right now they tower over everyone else and it just makes my Mesmer feel not as powerful as it should. I don't like the feeling that, "Well, if you wanna DPS you might as well go ELE." Sure they can stay at the top, but just not by so frickin' much.

 

Below are some meter screens of bosses in fractals. Both are boss fights with very little lower-tier enemies. Meaning most of the reported damage is boss damage. I could have taken more, but that would be beating a dead horse.

SO like what the even? ElEs scream even if you touch them with a ten foot pole when it comes to nerfs. And yet they still remain better than everyone else. So like what it do?

 

https://imgur.com/a/qZXWA

 

Give me the powaaaaaaaaaaa

[MailMail.6534]

Not looking forward to the confusion changes.

[dontlook.1823]

> @"MailMail.6534" said:

> Not looking forward to the confusion changes.

 

Its being split from Pvp/WvW/PvE so I'm not too worried. As I see it, things could have been worst with all the crying going on.

[Levetty.1279]

Yeah hopefully the change is one of those splits, unless they want to load burn on our skills to make up for it.

 

I'm interested about these 'exciting Mesmer changes'. Must be something big if they are actually going to reveal before the patch. Probably just Chrono nerfs so Firebrand/Renegade finally gets those spots.

[dontlook.1823]

> @"Levetty.1279" said:

> Yeah hopefully the change is one of those splits, unless they want to load burn on our skills to make up for it.

>

> I'm interested about these 'exciting Mesmer changes'. Must be something big if they are actually going to reveal before the patch. Probably just Chrono nerfs so Firebrand/Renegade finally gets those spots.

 

Haha, my thought exactly. Except I'm not too certain they will be nerfs since other support specs like Druid and Warrior got that 10 person buff. My guess is it will be somewhere along the lines of Alacrity changes to effect 10 people. I'm still really stoked to hear what it is. Fingers still crossed.

[viquing.8254]

>Torment and Confusion ARE broken on Mesmer.

No.

>Confusion: Remove the passive damage. Remove the damage when you use AUTO attack. Make it so that it only does the damage from using 2-5 on weapon skills and the heal, utilities and elite.

They already remove the on death clone and retaliation access to help braindead spammers winning against mesmers.

 

>You might not be dying to the passive ticks, but with the insane never ending high application, its not as if this damage can be ignored.

Did you ever try to learn the mesmers timers ?

 

>The real question is: Will Anet nerf it CORRECTLY or go the typical Anet route and just make it useless. I would prefer (as everyone would...) of a BALANCED nerf. Pick one or the other (Burst vs Sustain) and adjust the Mesmer specs to that design.

The real question for you seems to be : will I be able to kill mesmers without efforts with my autoproc skills.

 

>Too many stacks, too much application and too long duration.

Too low stacks, too low application and too low duration.

(You see, I can also make true affirmation statement without any datas.)

 

>The stealth, the teleports, the mobility they are VERY difficult to lock down let alone kill.

With which profession are you trying to kill it ?

With a teamfight/teamplay design profession ? If so you are not supposed to kill it.

 

>Condition damage is broken in that it only needs 1 stat.

Welcome in 2018, condition damage need too stats : condition damage and condition duration.

Historically, we can add precision on the equation with the number of traits who link precision and condition.

 

>Scourge is 100% the lesser of 2 evils. Scourge has counters. Scourge has weaknesses. Mesmer has too much mobility, too much defense, stealth.

Mesmers weakness are link to gamemode. Where in the world 1v1 lead to win the game ? (not in WvW, not in PvP (<= It's useless if you win your 1v1 but if the ennemy decap and cap the point during this time.).)

And necro is a f*cking teamfight professions, a duellist profession ins't supposed to lose against teamfight professions or we all play teamfight class.

 

>Staff alone has access to Bleeding, Burning, Chill, Confusion, Cripple, Weakness and Vul that is PLENTY of access to conditions to cover the Torment and Confusion burst.

50% are random and you miss the op long duration they have for the CD ...

And torch burn is probably the most easily predictable condi actually : you see the fantasm cast and you count the time between stealth and hit.

 

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@ArmageddonAsh : we all know that you want to remove mesmer from this game (you don't like pink ? ). but just some points :

* Stop making affirmations statement.

* When you say somethings is strong, give a reference on other professions with real datas, you will be more persuasive than with affirmative sentence from nowhere. You can do thousands of nerf posts, with the majority of arguments who are feeling, you're going round in circles.

* try to take a step back on advantage disadvantage of every professions, link this to gamemodes and you probably see why there isn't 5 mesmers every PVP game. (WvW is a vast bakancing joke since 23 june 2015 patch with 50% and more passive autoproc but if this is your main concern we can discuss about it.)

 

[Curunen.8729]

Do you reckon they might make IH a minor trait? That would be exciting! :)

 

I wouldn't care what they did with EM if they did that.

[Ithilwen.1529]

In a recent post, Karl said that "we" are "excited" about coming changes to Mesmer. The last time I recall hearing stuff like that was when moa was given to Engineer.

Needless to say, I'm pretty pessimistic about what's coming.

 

ANET might surprise me.