zoopop.5630 Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > > > @"Flauvious.6195" said: > > > > > @"Ok I Did It.2854" said: > > > > > All the crying about necros is great, its almost like everyone who comes up against them just doesn't plan, its not like you DONT know they are going to inflict a world of hurt from condis on you, but its better to complain on the forums about it, > > > > > > > > > > Seriously sounds like to many players are used to face planting others in PvP and get wrecked when they mash all the skills and die, honestly sounds like a learn to play issue, > > > > > > > > > > I don't see many complaints about certain OP other classes that take 3 players to burn them down, but when the 1v1 fight gets you destroyed your on here in double time complaining, laughable. > > > > > > > > > > The truly sad thing is, anet will probably listen to the few players QQing and nerf the nerco+elite class into the ground. > > > > > > > > > > Its like the players who stand in DH traps, or the people who get spiked in 3 seconds by a thief. LTP issues. > > > > > > > > Funny troll. How you think this spec isn't brain dead bs is baffling. Idk what my skills even do, still win games. You can make no mistakes. Throw your shade on a foe at range while accidentally killing the dude next to you you didnt even know was there. Enemy walks out of shade, doesn't matter, throw another because they're unlimited. Every melee is irrelevant because they're perma weakened, Every ability corrupts a boon on top of whatever else it does, Every ability is a giant aoe you can land with a blindfold. > > > > > > LOL, clearly you don't know what you're talking... > > > 1) Shades are **not** unlimited... You can have 3 at a time, and they have a somewhat long recharge time. They also only last 5 seconds, so you can't just sit there spamming shades on one place. Not saying that they don't lack counter-play, they do. They should be targetable with a break bar and dissolve when its broken. It keeps them in line with Necro's biggest problem, lack of stability. > > > 2) Range? Shades don't have that much, also can be LoS'd. Scepter is a 900 range weapon. If you actually play at long range you can easily kill scourges. > > > 3) Not every ability is an aoe, but yeah scourge has a lot of splash damage. So what? I'ts his thing, he's awesome vs numbers at close range. Focus him in long range and he's dead. > > > 4) It's surely an easy class to play, but i'm willing to bet that past platinum, it's probably a bit less prevalent. Just like Trap DH was a low tier thing. > > > > > > > in high plat.... they are god like and scary as kitten to play against.... on my holo i can stomp on most scourges anywhere in gold and maybe low plat however when you got Naru,Spiritus and a few others that KNOW how to play the class they are a deadly in all areas lol. They are the only class in last season and this current season i have the hardest time with from 1vs1 or 5vs5 they just destroy so much of the melee class at the moment that it kinda makes it impossible to fight them even if u want to "range" them it's pretty kitten hard unless your a deadeye/LB ranger. > > > > I made Just dropping 1 shade alone without even using any other f2-f4 abilities gives out Damage and possibly revert your boons into condi(depending on your trait line) that's from JUST dropping your shade lol. Normally high tier plat players don't spam their f2-f4 like monkeys they time it to actual land =/. > > Sure, but then, you don't go in with melee vs a Scourge if you're a good player. > I think the major problem here isn't scourge, it's just that the rest of the game doesn't allow the meta to shift and play more ranged classes to disable Scourge (which is what happens in other games, like League, If a certain ADC is really OP soon enough there will be a rise in a tank or something that can counter that op champion). > I'm hoping that they don't break the class entirely, because it's fun to play. But instead give people tools to counter it's zone dominance (like a way to destroy shades, hopefully with a break bar instead of health) it's not about "you don't go in with a melee vs a scourge if you're a good player' because you'll NEED to especially during a major battle at middle with your team to figure out who's going to control mid map/attempt to snowball hard after. By saying that then you are eliminating a GREAT amount of specs in the game at the moment just to list some Power Mesmer, HoLo, Power reaper, Weaver, DH, Core Guardian, Warrior , Core Thief, and maybe a few others i haven't named but look at how many of those specs/elites are ruled out by that comment you made? In most Tournament match ups with my crew it's a 4vs4 or 5vs5 at mid with both teams trying to burst down enemy necro asap or looking to see which team goes out of position from their firebrand due to the amount of pressure on said person. IF no one ever pressures the necro and you are only looking to kill them from "long range" then theirs gonna be a lot of issues not many classes play long range and is consider viable at the same time. Deadeye is a great a example of a powerful long ranger carry but has a poor win rate due to the lack of living. They don't need to break the class because it already dead high dps they need to tweak how shade work in general and make it LESS op in terms of breaking other players boons asap after their trying to cleanse off the condi they just got 2 secs ago lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flauvious.6195 Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > > > @"Flauvious.6195" said: > > > > > @"Ok I Did It.2854" said: > > > > > All the crying about necros is great, its almost like everyone who comes up against them just doesn't plan, its not like you DONT know they are going to inflict a world of hurt from condis on you, but its better to complain on the forums about it, > > > > > > > > > > Seriously sounds like to many players are used to face planting others in PvP and get wrecked when they mash all the skills and die, honestly sounds like a learn to play issue, > > > > > > > > > > I don't see many complaints about certain OP other classes that take 3 players to burn them down, but when the 1v1 fight gets you destroyed your on here in double time complaining, laughable. > > > > > > > > > > The truly sad thing is, anet will probably listen to the few players QQing and nerf the nerco+elite class into the ground. > > > > > > > > > > Its like the players who stand in DH traps, or the people who get spiked in 3 seconds by a thief. LTP issues. > > > > > > > > Funny troll. How you think this spec isn't brain dead bs is baffling. Idk what my skills even do, still win games. You can make no mistakes. Throw your shade on a foe at range while accidentally killing the dude next to you you didnt even know was there. Enemy walks out of shade, doesn't matter, throw another because they're unlimited. Every melee is irrelevant because they're perma weakened, Every ability corrupts a boon on top of whatever else it does, Every ability is a giant aoe you can land with a blindfold. > > > > > > LOL, clearly you don't know what you're talking... > > > 1) Shades are **not** unlimited... You can have 3 at a time, and they have a somewhat long recharge time. They also only last 5 seconds, so you can't just sit there spamming shades on one place. Not saying that they don't lack counter-play, they do. They should be targetable with a break bar and dissolve when its broken. It keeps them in line with Necro's biggest problem, lack of stability. > > > 2) Range? Shades don't have that much, also can be LoS'd. Scepter is a 900 range weapon. If you actually play at long range you can easily kill scourges. > > > 3) Not every ability is an aoe, but yeah scourge has a lot of splash damage. So what? I'ts his thing, he's awesome vs numbers at close range. Focus him in long range and he's dead. > > > 4) It's surely an easy class to play, but i'm willing to bet that past platinum, it's probably a bit less prevalent. Just like Trap DH was a low tier thing. > > > > > > > in high plat.... they are god like and scary as kitten to play against.... on my holo i can stomp on most scourges anywhere in gold and maybe low plat however when you got Naru,Spiritus and a few others that KNOW how to play the class they are a deadly in all areas lol. They are the only class in last season and this current season i have the hardest time with from 1vs1 or 5vs5 they just destroy so much of the melee class at the moment that it kinda makes it impossible to fight them even if u want to "range" them it's pretty kitten hard unless your a deadeye/LB ranger. > > > > I made Just dropping 1 shade alone without even using any other f2-f4 abilities gives out Damage and possibly revert your boons into condi(depending on your trait line) that's from JUST dropping your shade lol. Normally high tier plat players don't spam their f2-f4 like monkeys they time it to actual land =/. > > Sure, but then, you don't go in with melee vs a Scourge if you're a good player. > I think the major problem here isn't scourge, it's just that the rest of the game doesn't allow the meta to shift and play more ranged classes to disable Scourge (which is what happens in other games, like League, If a certain ADC is really OP soon enough there will be a rise in a tank or something that can counter that op champion). > I'm hoping that they don't break the class entirely, because it's fun to play. But instead give people tools to counter it's zone dominance (like a way to destroy shades, hopefully with a break bar instead of health) No single class should completely determine what's viable and what isn't. No single class should force all other players to run one narrow type of gameplay to even be able to compete. Maybe if everyone plays longbow ranger and dead eye scourge won't be as strong, but the fact that everyone is forced to go max range weapons or die is so messed up, idk how people can say that is an acceptable solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bast.7253 Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 It amazes me how many scourges seemingly don’t know how to manage their barriers or what order to press their shade skills in to maximize sustain. Or the ones that stand back away from people instead of charging in and allowing it to prick from shades and from their personal hit box. Generally though, the team with the most scourges wins. It’s definitely imbalanced by I don’t even know how you would fix it without completely reworking the spec. They should have just gone with a skeletal summoning spec instead of this condi chronoshatter mesmer on steroids idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strages.2950 Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 > @"cptaylor.2670" said: > It amazes me how many scourges seemingly don’t know how to manage their barriers or what order to press their shade skills in to maximize sustain. Or the ones that stand back away from people instead of charging in and allowing it to prick from shades and from their personal hit box. > > Generally though, the team with the most scourges wins. > > It’s definitely imbalanced by I don’t even know how you would fix it without completely reworking the spec. They should have just gone with a skeletal summoning spec instead of this condi chronoshatter mesmer on steroids idea. Well, a few ideas: Give shade skills a small cast time with a tell (shades glow red or something while casting). Using an F skill will put all your OTHER shade skills on a small CD which increases depending on the number of shades you have active. If you're traited for a single shade, the you get a flat CD (equal to ~2 or 3 shades being put down). Rework boon corruption tables (most classes get boons on them whether they want to or not). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zintrothen.1056 Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 > @"Zackie.8923" said: > sounds like how people complaint about dh traps when it first came out Except you can react to DH traps because they have an animation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pah.4931 Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 The REAL problem is creating 834571 maps and every single one of them (in season ranked play) is Conquest. That was Anet's huge mistake. If there were different game modes with different win conditions, a profession like Scourge could excel at one (say, Conquest) while suffering in another (say, Capture the Flag). Having a chance to randomly choose a map that favors some profs over others not only causes fewer people to FotM, it also lets the devs have more wiggle room with balance. There is a checks and balances inherent to it. Want to make a non-stale meta? Create non-stale game modes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarshallLaw.9260 Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 > @"Zintrothen.1056" said: > > @"Zackie.8923" said: > > sounds like how people complaint about dh traps when it first came out > > Except you can react to DH traps because they have an animation. Please correct me if this is untrue - I believe placing and activating shades/shade skills shows animations also. When looking at the ground, there are often red circles indicating the area they cover. I am in no way defending shade skills or how effective they are, but there is an indication where they are placed. Of course they have less dangerous effects, but traps from DH, ranger, thief are arguably undetectable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sephiroth.4217 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 > @"Flauvious.6195" said: > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > > > > @"Flauvious.6195" said: > > > > > > @"Ok I Did It.2854" said: > > > > > > All the crying about necros is great, its almost like everyone who comes up against them just doesn't plan, its not like you DONT know they are going to inflict a world of hurt from condis on you, but its better to complain on the forums about it, > > > > > > > > > > > > Seriously sounds like to many players are used to face planting others in PvP and get wrecked when they mash all the skills and die, honestly sounds like a learn to play issue, > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't see many complaints about certain OP other classes that take 3 players to burn them down, but when the 1v1 fight gets you destroyed your on here in double time complaining, laughable. > > > > > > > > > > > > The truly sad thing is, anet will probably listen to the few players QQing and nerf the nerco+elite class into the ground. > > > > > > > > > > > > Its like the players who stand in DH traps, or the people who get spiked in 3 seconds by a thief. LTP issues. > > > > > > > > > > Funny troll. How you think this spec isn't brain dead bs is baffling. Idk what my skills even do, still win games. You can make no mistakes. Throw your shade on a foe at range while accidentally killing the dude next to you you didnt even know was there. Enemy walks out of shade, doesn't matter, throw another because they're unlimited. Every melee is irrelevant because they're perma weakened, Every ability corrupts a boon on top of whatever else it does, Every ability is a giant aoe you can land with a blindfold. > > > > > > > > LOL, clearly you don't know what you're talking... > > > > 1) Shades are **not** unlimited... You can have 3 at a time, and they have a somewhat long recharge time. They also only last 5 seconds, so you can't just sit there spamming shades on one place. Not saying that they don't lack counter-play, they do. They should be targetable with a break bar and dissolve when its broken. It keeps them in line with Necro's biggest problem, lack of stability. > > > > 2) Range? Shades don't have that much, also can be LoS'd. Scepter is a 900 range weapon. If you actually play at long range you can easily kill scourges. > > > > 3) Not every ability is an aoe, but yeah scourge has a lot of splash damage. So what? I'ts his thing, he's awesome vs numbers at close range. Focus him in long range and he's dead. > > > > 4) It's surely an easy class to play, but i'm willing to bet that past platinum, it's probably a bit less prevalent. Just like Trap DH was a low tier thing. > > > > > > > > > > in high plat.... they are god like and scary as kitten to play against.... on my holo i can stomp on most scourges anywhere in gold and maybe low plat however when you got Naru,Spiritus and a few others that KNOW how to play the class they are a deadly in all areas lol. They are the only class in last season and this current season i have the hardest time with from 1vs1 or 5vs5 they just destroy so much of the melee class at the moment that it kinda makes it impossible to fight them even if u want to "range" them it's pretty kitten hard unless your a deadeye/LB ranger. > > > > > > I made Just dropping 1 shade alone without even using any other f2-f4 abilities gives out Damage and possibly revert your boons into condi(depending on your trait line) that's from JUST dropping your shade lol. Normally high tier plat players don't spam their f2-f4 like monkeys they time it to actual land =/. > > > > Sure, but then, you don't go in with melee vs a Scourge if you're a good player. > > I think the major problem here isn't scourge, it's just that the rest of the game doesn't allow the meta to shift and play more ranged classes to disable Scourge (which is what happens in other games, like League, If a certain ADC is really OP soon enough there will be a rise in a tank or something that can counter that op champion). > > I'm hoping that they don't break the class entirely, because it's fun to play. But instead give people tools to counter it's zone dominance (like a way to destroy shades, hopefully with a break bar instead of health) > > No single class should completely determine what's viable and what isn't. No single class should force all other players to run one narrow type of gameplay to even be able to compete. Maybe if everyone plays longbow ranger and dead eye scourge won't be as strong, but the fact that everyone is forced to go max range weapons or die is so messed up, idk how people can say that is an acceptable solution. It's even funnier when you remember how many Necro's complained that they couldn't use a Rabid Amulet due to Elementalist Diamond Skin because it hard countered that 1 specific build..... Now they hard counter an entire playstyle, melee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReaverKane.7598 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 > @"Flauvious.6195" said: > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > > > > @"Flauvious.6195" said: > > > > > > @"Ok I Did It.2854" said: > > > > > > All the crying about necros is great, its almost like everyone who comes up against them just doesn't plan, its not like you DONT know they are going to inflict a world of hurt from condis on you, but its better to complain on the forums about it, > > > > > > > > > > > > Seriously sounds like to many players are used to face planting others in PvP and get wrecked when they mash all the skills and die, honestly sounds like a learn to play issue, > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't see many complaints about certain OP other classes that take 3 players to burn them down, but when the 1v1 fight gets you destroyed your on here in double time complaining, laughable. > > > > > > > > > > > > The truly sad thing is, anet will probably listen to the few players QQing and nerf the nerco+elite class into the ground. > > > > > > > > > > > > Its like the players who stand in DH traps, or the people who get spiked in 3 seconds by a thief. LTP issues. > > > > > > > > > > Funny troll. How you think this spec isn't brain dead bs is baffling. Idk what my skills even do, still win games. You can make no mistakes. Throw your shade on a foe at range while accidentally killing the dude next to you you didnt even know was there. Enemy walks out of shade, doesn't matter, throw another because they're unlimited. Every melee is irrelevant because they're perma weakened, Every ability corrupts a boon on top of whatever else it does, Every ability is a giant aoe you can land with a blindfold. > > > > > > > > LOL, clearly you don't know what you're talking... > > > > 1) Shades are **not** unlimited... You can have 3 at a time, and they have a somewhat long recharge time. They also only last 5 seconds, so you can't just sit there spamming shades on one place. Not saying that they don't lack counter-play, they do. They should be targetable with a break bar and dissolve when its broken. It keeps them in line with Necro's biggest problem, lack of stability. > > > > 2) Range? Shades don't have that much, also can be LoS'd. Scepter is a 900 range weapon. If you actually play at long range you can easily kill scourges. > > > > 3) Not every ability is an aoe, but yeah scourge has a lot of splash damage. So what? I'ts his thing, he's awesome vs numbers at close range. Focus him in long range and he's dead. > > > > 4) It's surely an easy class to play, but i'm willing to bet that past platinum, it's probably a bit less prevalent. Just like Trap DH was a low tier thing. > > > > > > > > > > in high plat.... they are god like and scary as kitten to play against.... on my holo i can stomp on most scourges anywhere in gold and maybe low plat however when you got Naru,Spiritus and a few others that KNOW how to play the class they are a deadly in all areas lol. They are the only class in last season and this current season i have the hardest time with from 1vs1 or 5vs5 they just destroy so much of the melee class at the moment that it kinda makes it impossible to fight them even if u want to "range" them it's pretty kitten hard unless your a deadeye/LB ranger. > > > > > > I made Just dropping 1 shade alone without even using any other f2-f4 abilities gives out Damage and possibly revert your boons into condi(depending on your trait line) that's from JUST dropping your shade lol. Normally high tier plat players don't spam their f2-f4 like monkeys they time it to actual land =/. > > > > Sure, but then, you don't go in with melee vs a Scourge if you're a good player. > > I think the major problem here isn't scourge, it's just that the rest of the game doesn't allow the meta to shift and play more ranged classes to disable Scourge (which is what happens in other games, like League, If a certain ADC is really OP soon enough there will be a rise in a tank or something that can counter that op champion). > > I'm hoping that they don't break the class entirely, because it's fun to play. But instead give people tools to counter it's zone dominance (like a way to destroy shades, hopefully with a break bar instead of health) > > No single class should completely determine what's viable and what isn't. No single class should force all other players to run one narrow type of gameplay to even be able to compete. Maybe if everyone plays longbow ranger and dead eye scourge won't be as strong, but the fact that everyone is forced to go max range weapons or die is so messed up, idk how people can say that is an acceptable solution. Well, i guess if you see a Cement truck on the wrong lane on the road you drive straight towards it... It's called strategy, Scourge has clear and very well defined weaknesses, it's no one else's fault that you stick to failing strategies to counter the class, instead of exploring that classe's weaknesses. Does it need some work? Yes! Is it unbeatable? Not even close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArthurDent.9538 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > > > @"Flauvious.6195" said: > > > > > @"Ok I Did It.2854" said: > > > > > All the crying about necros is great, its almost like everyone who comes up against them just doesn't plan, its not like you DONT know they are going to inflict a world of hurt from condis on you, but its better to complain on the forums about it, > > > > > > > > > > Seriously sounds like to many players are used to face planting others in PvP and get wrecked when they mash all the skills and die, honestly sounds like a learn to play issue, > > > > > > > > > > I don't see many complaints about certain OP other classes that take 3 players to burn them down, but when the 1v1 fight gets you destroyed your on here in double time complaining, laughable. > > > > > > > > > > The truly sad thing is, anet will probably listen to the few players QQing and nerf the nerco+elite class into the ground. > > > > > > > > > > Its like the players who stand in DH traps, or the people who get spiked in 3 seconds by a thief. LTP issues. > > > > > > > > Funny troll. How you think this spec isn't brain dead bs is baffling. Idk what my skills even do, still win games. You can make no mistakes. Throw your shade on a foe at range while accidentally killing the dude next to you you didnt even know was there. Enemy walks out of shade, doesn't matter, throw another because they're unlimited. Every melee is irrelevant because they're perma weakened, Every ability corrupts a boon on top of whatever else it does, Every ability is a giant aoe you can land with a blindfold. > > > > > > LOL, clearly you don't know what you're talking... > > > 1) Shades are **not** unlimited... You can have 3 at a time, and they have a somewhat long recharge time. They also only last 5 seconds, so you can't just sit there spamming shades on one place. Not saying that they don't lack counter-play, they do. They should be targetable with a break bar and dissolve when its broken. It keeps them in line with Necro's biggest problem, lack of stability. > > > 2) Range? Shades don't have that much, also can be LoS'd. Scepter is a 900 range weapon. If you actually play at long range you can easily kill scourges. > > > 3) Not every ability is an aoe, but yeah scourge has a lot of splash damage. So what? I'ts his thing, he's awesome vs numbers at close range. Focus him in long range and he's dead. > > > 4) It's surely an easy class to play, but i'm willing to bet that past platinum, it's probably a bit less prevalent. Just like Trap DH was a low tier thing. > > > > > > > in high plat.... they are god like and scary as kitten to play against.... on my holo i can stomp on most scourges anywhere in gold and maybe low plat however when you got Naru,Spiritus and a few others that KNOW how to play the class they are a deadly in all areas lol. They are the only class in last season and this current season i have the hardest time with from 1vs1 or 5vs5 they just destroy so much of the melee class at the moment that it kinda makes it impossible to fight them even if u want to "range" them it's pretty kitten hard unless your a deadeye/LB ranger. > > > > I made Just dropping 1 shade alone without even using any other f2-f4 abilities gives out Damage and possibly revert your boons into condi(depending on your trait line) that's from JUST dropping your shade lol. Normally high tier plat players don't spam their f2-f4 like monkeys they time it to actual land =/. > > Sure, but then, you don't go in with melee vs a Scourge if you're a good player. > I think the major problem here isn't scourge, it's just that the rest of the game doesn't allow the meta to shift and play more ranged classes to disable Scourge (which is what happens in other games, like League, If a certain ADC is really OP soon enough there will be a rise in a tank or something that can counter that op champion). > I'm hoping that they don't break the class entirely, because it's fun to play. But instead give people tools to counter it's zone dominance (like a way to destroy shades, hopefully with a break bar instead of health) It's completely absurd that the king of melee that completely out muscles all melee builds when going to to toe is infact a brokenly over tuned ranged spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crinn.7864 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 > @"insaneseagull.7063" said: > > @"LaFurion.3167" said: > > Waited over a month to step back into ranked pvp. > > > > did one game, and had a scourge inflict 8 different conditions on me, some of them more than 6 stacks, with one ability that had no reaction time. > > > > Good game. I'm never stepping in sPvP again. Its clearly not balanced when you have a class that kills everything around them simply by pressing 1 button, and > > requiring people to play in a circle. > > > > Never again will I step into this game mode. > > AFAIK there's no scourge skill that inflicts you with 8 conditions in an instant. Nefarious Favor can do it with the proper setup. Take Path of Corruption, Unyielding Blast, Dhuumfire, and Sigil of Doom. With this setup pressing F2 results in: 1) Torment from Shade Auto 2) Cripple from Shade Auto 3) Burning from Dhuumfire 4) Vulnerability from Unyielding Blast 5&6) from the 2 boon corrupts from Path of Corruption 7) Poison from Sigil of Doom 8) Bleeding from Barbed Precision So it is entirely possible to get 8 different conditions from a single skill that is inflicted instantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flauvious.6195 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > @"Flauvious.6195" said: > > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > > > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > > > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > > > > > @"Flauvious.6195" said: > > > > > > > @"Ok I Did It.2854" said: > > > > > > > All the crying about necros is great, its almost like everyone who comes up against them just doesn't plan, its not like you DONT know they are going to inflict a world of hurt from condis on you, but its better to complain on the forums about it, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Seriously sounds like to many players are used to face planting others in PvP and get wrecked when they mash all the skills and die, honestly sounds like a learn to play issue, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't see many complaints about certain OP other classes that take 3 players to burn them down, but when the 1v1 fight gets you destroyed your on here in double time complaining, laughable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The truly sad thing is, anet will probably listen to the few players QQing and nerf the nerco+elite class into the ground. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its like the players who stand in DH traps, or the people who get spiked in 3 seconds by a thief. LTP issues. > > > > > > > > > > > > Funny troll. How you think this spec isn't brain dead bs is baffling. Idk what my skills even do, still win games. You can make no mistakes. Throw your shade on a foe at range while accidentally killing the dude next to you you didnt even know was there. Enemy walks out of shade, doesn't matter, throw another because they're unlimited. Every melee is irrelevant because they're perma weakened, Every ability corrupts a boon on top of whatever else it does, Every ability is a giant aoe you can land with a blindfold. > > > > > > > > > > LOL, clearly you don't know what you're talking... > > > > > 1) Shades are **not** unlimited... You can have 3 at a time, and they have a somewhat long recharge time. They also only last 5 seconds, so you can't just sit there spamming shades on one place. Not saying that they don't lack counter-play, they do. They should be targetable with a break bar and dissolve when its broken. It keeps them in line with Necro's biggest problem, lack of stability. > > > > > 2) Range? Shades don't have that much, also can be LoS'd. Scepter is a 900 range weapon. If you actually play at long range you can easily kill scourges. > > > > > 3) Not every ability is an aoe, but yeah scourge has a lot of splash damage. So what? I'ts his thing, he's awesome vs numbers at close range. Focus him in long range and he's dead. > > > > > 4) It's surely an easy class to play, but i'm willing to bet that past platinum, it's probably a bit less prevalent. Just like Trap DH was a low tier thing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > in high plat.... they are god like and scary as kitten to play against.... on my holo i can stomp on most scourges anywhere in gold and maybe low plat however when you got Naru,Spiritus and a few others that KNOW how to play the class they are a deadly in all areas lol. They are the only class in last season and this current season i have the hardest time with from 1vs1 or 5vs5 they just destroy so much of the melee class at the moment that it kinda makes it impossible to fight them even if u want to "range" them it's pretty kitten hard unless your a deadeye/LB ranger. > > > > > > > > I made Just dropping 1 shade alone without even using any other f2-f4 abilities gives out Damage and possibly revert your boons into condi(depending on your trait line) that's from JUST dropping your shade lol. Normally high tier plat players don't spam their f2-f4 like monkeys they time it to actual land =/. > > > > > > Sure, but then, you don't go in with melee vs a Scourge if you're a good player. > > > I think the major problem here isn't scourge, it's just that the rest of the game doesn't allow the meta to shift and play more ranged classes to disable Scourge (which is what happens in other games, like League, If a certain ADC is really OP soon enough there will be a rise in a tank or something that can counter that op champion). > > > I'm hoping that they don't break the class entirely, because it's fun to play. But instead give people tools to counter it's zone dominance (like a way to destroy shades, hopefully with a break bar instead of health) > > > > No single class should completely determine what's viable and what isn't. No single class should force all other players to run one narrow type of gameplay to even be able to compete. Maybe if everyone plays longbow ranger and dead eye scourge won't be as strong, but the fact that everyone is forced to go max range weapons or die is so messed up, idk how people can say that is an acceptable solution. > > Well, i guess if you see a Cement truck on the wrong lane on the road you drive straight towards it... > It's called strategy, Scourge has clear and very well defined weaknesses, it's no one else's fault that you stick to failing strategies to counter the class, instead of exploring that classe's weaknesses. > Does it need some work? Yes! Is it unbeatable? Not even close. Lol strategy? These mental gymnastics man. Yes standing at 1500 range and pew pewing them, that is some strategy alright. I love standing at 1500 range and arrow spamming. Such fun gameplay. If you're dying to a melee as scourge you are doing something wrong, all your abilities just explode out from you, you can accidentally kill people behind you without even knowing they're there. There should not be cement trucks in this game. This isn't a moba where you take turns picking champions and try to counter enemies as they pick. You just play what you want and blindly que into games here. If you have to mold your whole build a certain way just because of the existence of one class, that class needs to get nerfed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReaverKane.7598 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 > @"Crinn.7864" said: > > @"insaneseagull.7063" said: > > > @"LaFurion.3167" said: > > > Waited over a month to step back into ranked pvp. > > > > > > did one game, and had a scourge inflict 8 different conditions on me, some of them more than 6 stacks, with one ability that had no reaction time. > > > > > > Good game. I'm never stepping in sPvP again. Its clearly not balanced when you have a class that kills everything around them simply by pressing 1 button, and > > > requiring people to play in a circle. > > > > > > Never again will I step into this game mode. > > > > AFAIK there's no scourge skill that inflicts you with 8 conditions in an instant. > > Nefarious Favor can do it with the proper setup. > > Take Path of Corruption, Unyielding Blast, Dhuumfire, and Sigil of Doom. With this setup pressing F2 results in: > 1) Torment from Shade Auto > 2) Cripple from Shade Auto > 3) Burning from Dhuumfire > 4) Vulnerability from Unyielding Blast > 5&6) from the 2 boon corrupts from Path of Corruption > 7) Poison from Sigil of Doom > 8) Bleeding from Barbed Precision > > So it is entirely possible to get 8 different conditions from a single skill that is inflicted instantly. > > Cripple doesn't do damage, nor vuln. Also the enemy would need boons to corrupt, which, again with SB and Scourge in the Arena if you're relying on boon spam, you shouldn't really complain. > @"Flauvious.6195" said: > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > > @"Flauvious.6195" said: > > > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > > > > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > > > > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > > > > > > @"Flauvious.6195" said: > > > > > > > > @"Ok I Did It.2854" said: > > > > > > > > All the crying about necros is great, its almost like everyone who comes up against them just doesn't plan, its not like you DONT know they are going to inflict a world of hurt from condis on you, but its better to complain on the forums about it, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Seriously sounds like to many players are used to face planting others in PvP and get wrecked when they mash all the skills and die, honestly sounds like a learn to play issue, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't see many complaints about certain OP other classes that take 3 players to burn them down, but when the 1v1 fight gets you destroyed your on here in double time complaining, laughable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The truly sad thing is, anet will probably listen to the few players QQing and nerf the nerco+elite class into the ground. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its like the players who stand in DH traps, or the people who get spiked in 3 seconds by a thief. LTP issues. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Funny troll. How you think this spec isn't brain dead bs is baffling. Idk what my skills even do, still win games. You can make no mistakes. Throw your shade on a foe at range while accidentally killing the dude next to you you didnt even know was there. Enemy walks out of shade, doesn't matter, throw another because they're unlimited. Every melee is irrelevant because they're perma weakened, Every ability corrupts a boon on top of whatever else it does, Every ability is a giant aoe you can land with a blindfold. > > > > > > > > > > > > LOL, clearly you don't know what you're talking... > > > > > > 1) Shades are **not** unlimited... You can have 3 at a time, and they have a somewhat long recharge time. They also only last 5 seconds, so you can't just sit there spamming shades on one place. Not saying that they don't lack counter-play, they do. They should be targetable with a break bar and dissolve when its broken. It keeps them in line with Necro's biggest problem, lack of stability. > > > > > > 2) Range? Shades don't have that much, also can be LoS'd. Scepter is a 900 range weapon. If you actually play at long range you can easily kill scourges. > > > > > > 3) Not every ability is an aoe, but yeah scourge has a lot of splash damage. So what? I'ts his thing, he's awesome vs numbers at close range. Focus him in long range and he's dead. > > > > > > 4) It's surely an easy class to play, but i'm willing to bet that past platinum, it's probably a bit less prevalent. Just like Trap DH was a low tier thing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in high plat.... they are god like and scary as kitten to play against.... on my holo i can stomp on most scourges anywhere in gold and maybe low plat however when you got Naru,Spiritus and a few others that KNOW how to play the class they are a deadly in all areas lol. They are the only class in last season and this current season i have the hardest time with from 1vs1 or 5vs5 they just destroy so much of the melee class at the moment that it kinda makes it impossible to fight them even if u want to "range" them it's pretty kitten hard unless your a deadeye/LB ranger. > > > > > > > > > > I made Just dropping 1 shade alone without even using any other f2-f4 abilities gives out Damage and possibly revert your boons into condi(depending on your trait line) that's from JUST dropping your shade lol. Normally high tier plat players don't spam their f2-f4 like monkeys they time it to actual land =/. > > > > > > > > Sure, but then, you don't go in with melee vs a Scourge if you're a good player. > > > > I think the major problem here isn't scourge, it's just that the rest of the game doesn't allow the meta to shift and play more ranged classes to disable Scourge (which is what happens in other games, like League, If a certain ADC is really OP soon enough there will be a rise in a tank or something that can counter that op champion). > > > > I'm hoping that they don't break the class entirely, because it's fun to play. But instead give people tools to counter it's zone dominance (like a way to destroy shades, hopefully with a break bar instead of health) > > > > > > No single class should completely determine what's viable and what isn't. No single class should force all other players to run one narrow type of gameplay to even be able to compete. Maybe if everyone plays longbow ranger and dead eye scourge won't be as strong, but the fact that everyone is forced to go max range weapons or die is so messed up, idk how people can say that is an acceptable solution. > > > > Well, i guess if you see a Cement truck on the wrong lane on the road you drive straight towards it... > > It's called strategy, Scourge has clear and very well defined weaknesses, it's no one else's fault that you stick to failing strategies to counter the class, instead of exploring that classe's weaknesses. > > Does it need some work? Yes! Is it unbeatable? Not even close. > > Lol strategy? These mental gymnastics man. Yes standing at 1500 range and pew pewing them, that is some strategy alright. I love standing at 1500 range and arrow spamming. Such fun gameplay. If you're dying to a melee as scourge you are doing something wrong, all your abilities just explode out from you, you can accidentally kill people behind you without even knowing they're there. There should not be cement trucks in this game. This isn't a moba where you take turns picking champions and try to counter enemies as they pick. You just play what you want and blindly que into games here. If you have to mold your whole build a certain way just because of the existence of one class, that class needs to get nerfed. Maybe that's the problem? That people don't realize that **you can** do counter picks? Sure it isn't as institutionalized as in MOBAS, but there's a reason why they never added class locks, because people want the freedom to do counter picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilman.1532 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 DH is poo gas in the current sPvP meta. Nuff said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crinn.7864 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > @"Crinn.7864" said: > > > @"insaneseagull.7063" said: > > > > @"LaFurion.3167" said: > > > > Waited over a month to step back into ranked pvp. > > > > > > > > did one game, and had a scourge inflict 8 different conditions on me, some of them more than 6 stacks, with one ability that had no reaction time. > > > > > > > > Good game. I'm never stepping in sPvP again. Its clearly not balanced when you have a class that kills everything around them simply by pressing 1 button, and > > > > requiring people to play in a circle. > > > > > > > > Never again will I step into this game mode. > > > > > > AFAIK there's no scourge skill that inflicts you with 8 conditions in an instant. > > > > Nefarious Favor can do it with the proper setup. > > > > Take Path of Corruption, Unyielding Blast, Dhuumfire, and Sigil of Doom. With this setup pressing F2 results in: > > 1) Torment from Shade Auto > > 2) Cripple from Shade Auto > > 3) Burning from Dhuumfire > > 4) Vulnerability from Unyielding Blast > > 5&6) from the 2 boon corrupts from Path of Corruption > > 7) Poison from Sigil of Doom > > 8) Bleeding from Barbed Precision > > > > So it is entirely possible to get 8 different conditions from a single skill that is inflicted instantly. > > > > > > Cripple doesn't do damage, nor vuln. Also the enemy would need boons to corrupt, which, again with SB and Scourge in the Arena if you're relying on boon spam, you shouldn't really complain. No the former just destroys your mobility and the latter increases the damage you take from all sources. >Also the enemy would need boons to corrupt, which, again with SB and Scourge in the Arena if you're relying on boon spam, you shouldn't really complain. Do you realize that every single class in the game uses and requires boons to some degree? Do you realize that intentionally removing boon generation from your build will make you even more vulnerable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turk.5460 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > @"Crinn.7864" said: > > > @"insaneseagull.7063" said: > > > > @"LaFurion.3167" said: > > > > Waited over a month to step back into ranked pvp. > > > > > > > > did one game, and had a scourge inflict 8 different conditions on me, some of them more than 6 stacks, with one ability that had no reaction time. > > > > > > > > Good game. I'm never stepping in sPvP again. Its clearly not balanced when you have a class that kills everything around them simply by pressing 1 button, and > > > > requiring people to play in a circle. > > > > > > > > Never again will I step into this game mode. > > > > > > AFAIK there's no scourge skill that inflicts you with 8 conditions in an instant. > > > > Nefarious Favor can do it with the proper setup. > > > > Take Path of Corruption, Unyielding Blast, Dhuumfire, and Sigil of Doom. With this setup pressing F2 results in: > > 1) Torment from Shade Auto > > 2) Cripple from Shade Auto > > 3) Burning from Dhuumfire > > 4) Vulnerability from Unyielding Blast > > 5&6) from the 2 boon corrupts from Path of Corruption > > 7) Poison from Sigil of Doom > > 8) Bleeding from Barbed Precision > > > > So it is entirely possible to get 8 different conditions from a single skill that is inflicted instantly. > > > > > > Cripple doesn't do damage, nor vuln. Also the enemy would need boons to corrupt, which, again with SB and Scourge in the Arena if you're relying on boon spam, you shouldn't really complain. Cripple and Vulnerability are considered "cover conditions" (although arguably yes, vulnerability *does* do damage, just not directly - as long as you also have damaging condis on you at the same time then you are taking more damage than if you did not have vulnerability...). These cover conditions make it harder for people to clear the damaging conditions. Having boons on you to be corrupted is not something easily avoided, since your allies most likely fart boons onto you when they pass by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malediktus.9250 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 The pvp balance is just atrocious since HoT and PoF made it even worse only solution is to completly rebalance EVERYTHING or ban elite specs from ranked pvp (=hotjoin only) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilypop.7819 Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 > @"Deth.1698" said: > Scourge is strong, but if you are going up against a Scourge, you know their damage is through condis. Learn to counter play. Stay out of the huge circle on the ground! Bring more cleanses. Don't have more? Switch classes to something that has more cleanses. Do you have a support on your team who can cleanse, fight near them while fighting the Scourge. And if you are running up on them and getting in melee range, make sure you watch out for Ghastly Breach. I have seen so many people just stand in it (and in their shades...) and get pissed when they get annihilated. You have to start learning about other classes and how to fight them instead of getting on the forums to complain about it. Few are running up to Scourges to melee and even fewer are running into those red circles. I play with a toon that has +25% perm movement buff and have never been able to outrun a Scourge in Ranked PvP. If a Scourge wants you, they get you. They also have a greater tendency than other classes to 'leap over tall buildings in a single bound', immune to slow effects, magically morph to your exact position and pop up behind you prior to their delivering a single keyed condi dump. Remarkable. The gameplay is similar to a backstabbing thief which has the draw back of low health and healing opportunities prior to an attack. Not saying Scourge is the only class with such 'strange magic' but they are without doubt the most popular with cheaters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Ketsu.4569 Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 > @"Shirlias.8104" said: > Also magi neck was a mystake given the firebrand. > It has to go asap as for the first celestial. I really dislike nerfing things by nerfing amulets because then it's still broken as hell in WvW and WvW is already a cesspit of horrible balance due to how ridiculous some of the consumables/buffs are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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