PSA Stop playing DH in rated

[Darknicrofia.2604]

Fighting vs a DH in ranked feels pretty much like when you're on a roaming spec and you run into a zergling, you almost feel bad for the other guy because you know he doesn't have the tools in the build to do anything vs you.

 

It pretty much takes a DH to be 2 skill tiers above any other meta bruiser class to win fights, the tools it has at its disposal feels as limited as the shout support core guard did when HoT first launched and everything had unblockable ccs.

[otto.5684]

I think there is a misconception about core guardian. It is not a burst build. If your game plan is to do 10-12k in 1 sec, this is not the build you are looking for. That does not mean it can’t it just not its primary objective or design.

[ThatNAESLGuard.6238]

DH is better than core in ranked /thread

 

you guys are all noobs

[Saiyan.1704]

> @"ThatNAESLGuard.6238" said:

> DH is better than core in ranked /thread

>

> you guys are all noobs

@"ThatNAESLGuard.6238"

It absolutely does **not** perform better in Platinum Pugstomp sPvP... I'll even list the PRO vs CONS between Core Guard and DH. Granted, i'm referring to my burst Zeal build as oppose to the more popular Hammer+Virtues build. I consider it a more optimal usage of Core Guard so, take that as you will.

 

[Valk Burst Core Guard - Zeal/Valor/Radiance](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQRAse7enkICVDhlDBeDB8Dhj5h6evPaNUbgrMAsXQ92oA-jZxHABAcSAWZ/BlPCAJVG47HAAA "Valk Burst Core Guard Zeal/Valor/Radiance")

# The Pros

* **Burst is better**

_When +1ing, Core Valks will output more burst damages than a DH on his gimmick Trueshot+ToF build. Unlike HoT, you can't as easily perform the infamous pull+push ToF combo nor deal enough damage for it to even matter. Speaking of bursts, a **single** Shattered Aegis F3 activation (Mystic Rebuke) can potentially deal 10k Crit bursts in a group fight if Mystic Rebuke crits with all Allies. There's about 6 total Aegis procs (disregarding F3 recharge times, 75% health, etc) where this is potentially possible. Three of which is skill based activation skills._

* **The Sustains to Damage ratio is better**

_Players underestimate the healing effectiveness of Litany of Wrath. I haven't done extensive tests in terms of how much it actually does, but out of experience it heals about 1k or 2k **Less** than Purification. So that's about an average of 5k healing on a 20s CD. I'll gladly trade that 1/4 cast time quick condi cleanse clutch 5k healing, for more burst damages offered by Core overall._

* **Optimum build on Side-Point Defending and Assaulting**

_Unlike HoT, kiting around trying to bait a 1v2 at far and expecting your team to win points, isn't nearly as effective in this current meta. Core counters thief/engi/mes a lot more quicker and than DH ever could, winning the point over._

 

# The Cons vs DH

* **DH can (should) counter Core Burst guard**

_We just can't kite as effectively in 1v1's. Partially due to the DH's natural Aegis blocks, F3 Shield and F2 healing + peeling off. Though, it's still just a soft counter as we'll get DH down to 20% or less._

* **DH kite's and sustains are better**

_Core can't sustain 1v2's on side points as efficiently as DH can, much like how a DH can't 1v2 nearly as efficiently as a Ranger can. DH also can't get countered nearly as easily when a Necro +1's him on a point due to F3 blocks, bow dps and F3 peels._

* Better in Mid fights.

_DH is more oriented in group battles where LB#5 has a greater chance to hit and where LB#2 can knockback during clutch plays. More importantly it overall sustains better when being pressured by **Scourge**._

 

# Automated Tournaments

This is something I'm not going to talk much on as I've never ran, nor will I ever use, DH in AT's because of the above mentioned items. I've **won** an AT tournament vs team's who consistently compete, sure, but I don't have a team myself to do AT's consistently.

 

# Class vs Class as Core Guardian

* **War / War / Ranger / Necro / Thief**

I can't possibly think i'd perform well vs this matchup simply because if targeted first, I see myself going down fairly quickly. Only way I'd perform great is if I deal enough damage before dying, hoping my team can finish up the rest of the fight. Going anywhere to 1v1 any of these classes except maybe, Thief, would be a nightmare. This assumes all players above are 1700+

 

Looking forward to your reply but if you don't, well, I guess that's fine too.

[Traveller.7496]

First of all, thanks for writing that comparison. I don't personally do sPVP but I've tried some WvW. Do those same points apply? I've tried lots of different stuff others have linked on this board and I kinda feel like I've yet to come across the right playstyle for me, be it core, DH or Firebrand (mainly for roaming/small group).

[Darknicrofia.2604]

No, in WvW LB DH is better by miles.

 

There are no nodes for people to stick to, kiting/mobility/ranged is king.

[Arcaedus.7290]

> @"Traveller.7496" said:

> First of all, thanks for writing that comparison. I don't personally do sPVP but I've tried some WvW. Do those same points apply? I've tried lots of different stuff others have linked on this board and I kinda feel like I've yet to come across the right playstyle for me, be it core, DH or Firebrand (mainly for roaming/small group).

 

I can weight in here:

 

Some of Saiyan's points apply in wvw: Those same unfavorable matchups for you still apply in wvw and you can still +1 or add your burst much more effectively as core guard than as DH.

 

I think it comes down to whether or not you have a group of people you're roaming with or a good comp going. If you have either support or heals, core guard brings a seriously painful burst that can help you win fights much more quickly.

 

In general, DH is the better roamer though. The extra mobility and sustain give you a definite edge in most matchups and it has a much better ability to sustain in 1v1 and 1v2s.

[Styxxis.9025]

> @"Darknicrofia.2604" said:

> base radiance hammer guard is superior to DH right now.

 

this so much

[Styxxis.9025]

gotta be honest, the only build I enjoy playing with guardian so far is radiant hammer, everything else feels either way too squish or feels like it puts out bad damage

[whoknocks.4935]

In spvp core guardian is simply better because of the ability to oneshot thieves, mesmers and holosmiths quite easily. This is why it works. Dh can't oneshot in spvp even landing the full combo with ToF.

 

In wvw different story, dh is far superior. The trap heal is not nerfed like in spvp, f2 skill as well if not wrong, and the damage being same as pve, the combo with ToF hits even for 6k each time you pass the trap ring. True shot as well can hit like for 6k-9k quite easily. In spvp i barely do 3k on crit sometimes.

 

With the upcoming nerfes dh will see even a more rise in wvw as a solo/small scale roamer.

In spvp not sure if can return to compete due to holo and spellbreaker nerfs in particular.

Core guard will probably be still superior and will become meta stable I guess.

[Arcaedus.7290]

> @"whoknocks.4935" said:

> In spvp core guardian is simply better because of the ability to oneshot thieves, mesmers and holosmiths quite easily. This is why it works. Dh can't oneshot in spvp even landing the full combo with ToF.

>

> In wvw different story, dh is far superior. The trap heal is not nerfed like in spvp, f2 skill as well if not wrong, and the damage being same as pve, the combo with ToF hits even for 6k each time you pass the trap ring. True shot as well can hit like for 6k-9k quite easily. In spvp i barely do 3k on crit sometimes.

>

> With the upcoming nerfes dh will see even a more rise in wvw as a solo/small scale roamer.

> In spvp not sure if can return to compete due to holo and spellbreaker nerfs in particular.

> Core guard will probably be still superior and will become meta stable I guess.

 

Mostly agree with what you said, but trueshot hits 4-6.5k in wvw. With 2500 power and 200% crit damage, I only ever break 7k crits against the squishiest roamers if I'm at 600-1200 range and have aegis on (+26% damage from modifiers). The damage of DH in WvW definitely comes from ToF wombo comboes. Without those, you won't be out-pacing the sustain of any decently built roamer.

[whoknocks.4935]

> @"Arcaedus.7290" said:

> > @"whoknocks.4935" said:

> > In spvp core guardian is simply better because of the ability to oneshot thieves, mesmers and holosmiths quite easily. This is why it works. Dh can't oneshot in spvp even landing the full combo with ToF.

> >

> > In wvw different story, dh is far superior. The trap heal is not nerfed like in spvp, f2 skill as well if not wrong, and the damage being same as pve, the combo with ToF hits even for 6k each time you pass the trap ring. True shot as well can hit like for 6k-9k quite easily. In spvp i barely do 3k on crit sometimes.

> >

> > With the upcoming nerfes dh will see even a more rise in wvw as a solo/small scale roamer.

> > In spvp not sure if can return to compete due to holo and spellbreaker nerfs in particular.

> > Core guard will probably be still superior and will become meta stable I guess.

>

> Mostly agree with what you said, but trueshot hits 4-6.5k in wvw. With 2500 power and 200% crit damage, I only ever break 7k crits against the squishiest roamers if I'm at 600-1200 range and have aegis on (+26% damage from modifiers). The damage of DH in WvW definitely comes from ToF wombo comboes. Without those, you won't be out-pacing the sustain of any decently built roamer.

 

Against light armor i hit even for 8-9k if 25 might of course, but usually not less than 5k with a crit.

Depends what people run, some warrior or holosmith or other guardians put some soldier or toughness trinkets so the damage is a bit lowered.

 

Purification heal is almost a completely full heal plus the f2, in spvp both are nerfed and way lower heals. The damage in spvp is capped and that's why dh is powercreeped by many other specs.

 

With the upcoming nerf it can become probably something viable but not meta defining or game changing, but a good solid choice to run that is not completely useless.

 

In wvw I can kill quite a bit of spellbreakers too popping their stab with shield5 which is near impossible to notice when popped. Pop the passive endure pain bursting down, blinds with sword2, longbow3 or even greatsword3 and purification comes in handy, kite and get distance with f2 and you can do it.

 

In spvp you can do it still, but your damage is low and you lose too much time that you get +1 if you are doing 1v1 against someone.

 

Another issue with dh is that it's an old spec and it was hated a lot that people know it and how to counter it easily. So you have to play smarter and less predictable.

 

After you get a successful spear, people are ready to stunbreak immediately that they won't even reach test of faith.

 

I still like to play it regardless, maybe people says it's easy to play, but to effective with dh you have to be really good, you can't just spam like scourge, and spellbreaker is easier definitely.

 

We will see after the balance patch what happens.

[UMS.1976]

And again. Please. Consider changing your DH to Core guardian or other profession. U just ruin rating games since DH in current state is way too underperforming comparing to other meta builds.

* im plat1, maining scourge and core guardian (more guardian now)

 

Sorry for my bad english.

[FyzE.3472]

Whut? People can play what they want tyvm.