What would Commanders/Players in WvW like to see for Rangers bring to Group Play.

[anduriell.6280]

> @Justine.6351 said:

> If they are not running Signet of Renewal, kick them.

 

and a brown bear. Don't forget the brown bear.

[GDchiaScrub.3241]

Changes to ranger base class? Nothing, very few if any of the base classes are viable (maybe only guardian for blobbing?). If you wanna pretend to frontline then PoF does offer Frontline stance share in the form of Soulbeast I guess. If you wanna heal sometimes then HoT offers Druids. There. D: Welcome to blobbing on a "ranger."

[Rampage.7145]

Why are the rangers always the saltiest class? like i kick every ranger thief and ranger from my squad all the time but only rangers get salty about it and pm me bitching about it. Look, long story short you picked a class that by desing is geared towrds 1 v 1 fights, your AOE damage is awfull, that alone is bad enough to never take you on a squad, you can say that you can heal (as a druid), and true that, yet your healing capabilities are vastly inferior to other classes like tempest mesmers guardians not to mention all those classes bring so much more to the table other than just raw healing like AOE control abilities, stealth, ton of boons, stunbreaks etc etc etc. So you cannot do damage and you cannnot support properly why would any commander take you over another class that can do it much more efficinetly??? Sure there are some prodigy engi, ranger and thief players that can excel over the rest and actually be competitive with vs the regular necro or warrior but that is the 1% of them, as a general rule after 5 years of commanding i can tell you, rangers are just subpar for zerging anything u can do other class can and will do better unless you are some kind of ranger prodigy kid, in which case you should try find a real good guild to run with and by having that guild tag pug commanders may consider you for a squad slot.

[Haematic.4913]

@"KeyOrion.9506" I'm the main commander and guild lead of a WvW guild, Legends Never [DIE]. @"Rampage.7145" is very right. He explained the issue(s) with rangers in WvW squads. However, some guild utilize their kits into their composition whereas public tags aren't "built" to handle these kits. In that regard, my guild has recently decided to drop both Druid and Soulbeast from our "Main" composition but have instilled a "Flex" option which could compensate for the loss of a "Main profession" or as we call them "Pillars".

 

Here's the build if you're interested -- http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQNBhQD7kgXohXsjXwkFgqFsMJY592g7x95z15+YNBgGwEIFWftW1A-jFCswAxVGEV3A09HAoEj0FBAkSj+KBDr+TAAEgbezsZbG8zf+zf+zf2195P/5P/5P/5P/5PLFgfr0A-w

 

Note: The open sigil slots are "Sigil of Frenzy" the user gains 6-seconds of Alacrity every 10-seconds (so long as you continually slay enemies).

 

Essentially the build accomplishes the following:

 

* Stance sharing Support - Helps convert conditions to healing with your heal, Grants immunity to movement impairing conditions to allies and provides boons and boon duration to allies.

* Burst Healing Support - With Spiritual Reprieve you're able to burst heal 5-target allies for about 7,000 HP and it provides 4-6 seconds of resistance to those allies; this is on a 40-second cooldown but with "Sigil of Frenzy" equipped, it will help reduce the cooldown of that ability (after a foe is slain).

* Sustained Healing Support - Your heal shares for two seconds with allies, which converts two conditions into healing (656x2=1,312*1.35=1,771 healing) while attuned to SB. Also, while in MOA you're able to use the F1 heal on a 25-sec c/d which heals for 2,733 health. (You'll also have blips of regeneration applied but they will likey be overwritten by anther class in your party).

* Crowd Control - Using your healing skill will proc "Muddy Terrain" at your location which will immobilize targets for 4-seconds and cripple & slow targets every second for 10-seconds whom pass through. Using "Entangle" will immobilize and lock players in friendly damage or "bombs". You also have an AOE immobilize and pull with your SB Moa, using F3 which is on a 25-sec c/d.

* Bruiser Damage - Your damage will rarely exceed 2,000 damage. You'll average around 1,600-1,800 and cap around 2,600 DPS between your dagger cleaving and Greatsword cleaving + Mauling. Make sure you're in SB for the added stat bonuses. If the moment strikes, you'll have the ability to lockdown single target with your hilt-bash using #5 then following up with your maul to push them into down state.

* Everything Else - Self superspeed, self condi clear, self quickness (with many reapplications which +2-sec boon duration to currently active boons), blast finishers, leaping for mobility, evades from auto GS chains and well rounded stats for large scale WvWing. In the event say a 2nd guardian or Chronomancer is missing you can act as a 2nd source of stability for your party. Entering SB grants you a stunbreak if you're in need of one and makes your attacks unblockable for 4-seconds.

[katniss.6735]

I'd like a ranger not to open with lbow knockback for once.

The best thing they can do is burst down pesky thieves working the outside and backline. Some of the pets a are a real nuisance for anyone with a cast time.

[Prysin.8542]

> @KayCee.4653 said:

> > @Prysin.8542 said:

> > Ranger is MORE then capable of being a strong teamplayer in zergs. Commanders just need to understand it, and they DONT WANT TO.

> >

>

> You had me up to this point, but even I wouldn't take a Ranger when other classes can do everything a bit or even way better than rangers do. Example, using your soul beast, you maybe able to push in with the front liners, but what are you really giving to the front liners in terms of what they need? Damage? Boons? Corrupt or remove boons from other players? These are things that all commanders should take into consideration.

>

> For example, a mesmer even on mirage don't push in with zergs generally, yet they are sought after in a blob for their viel's (both veil and mass invisibility), for their pulls, and for their portals (which are still better than a scourge's even though scourge can use its in combat a lot easier than a mesmer/mirage/chronomancer can). You want a class that is really beneficial for the group, then try this example. A guardian will almost always have a top spot in a zerg because they can do pushes, purging flames to clear condi's from themselves and others, pulls if on dragon hunter, much more. Elementalists and their elite specs can provide a lot of team support. However, maybe not so much for weaver, but that's another story.

>

> And with that getting back to what the original poster was trying to say, I don't think that Anet should change anything with ranger, engineer, nor thief. Their adventure classes for a reason. They aren't soldiers, which when I think of soldier I think of frontline war zone. They aren't scholars, therefore not truly backline, even though some scholars do a very good job in even close range fighting.

>

> An adventure class like Ranger is the perfect in-between between a soldier and a scholar. They can do most things solo without help and even thieves, can be a pest and uber hard to kill. Okay, maybe "uber" was a bit over an over exaggeration, but you get the point. Rangers don't have precise control over pets and pets can give away a zerg's position at times because they auto attack. Even a soulbeast merging with the pet, isn't likely to win over any commanders because they literally don't offer nothing that they can't find elsewhere in better amounts.

>

> TL;DR Just saying that even a soulbeast isn't likely to win over any commanders to allowing or even seeking out rangers, because the class is an adventure class and like all adventure classes they don't offer much in the way of group support and cohesion unlike other classes do. Especially, when you consider that they don't remove boons as well as necro's and spellbreakers do. They don't heal others as well as a heal-bot tempest/ele does for group healing. They don't offer up anything that you can't find in other classes that do it better than any form of ranger does. Sorry, but its honestly why guild groups rarely like any adventure class joining there runs...

 

Ranger/Soulbeast was never ever going to "win over" any commander, because no commander would bother to look at it. Why? Its a ranger duh, it sucks by default, no need to look at it twice.

 

Again, you are wrong by your conclusion and premise. But you are thinking of old META, pre PoF. That is disingenious at best. Why am i saying so? Because pre PoF, ranger had only one thing to add to zergs, spike heal with druid. That was it. NOTHING else.

 

To understand how big soulbeast can be, you must first understand the function and properties of its form. You do not, it is evident in the reply that you are basing your argument on a misinformed premise. Before you can conclude what soulbeast can and cannot be, go look at what the other classes, especially Spellbreaker and scourge means to the new META

[Prysin.8542]

> @katniss.6735 said:

> I'd like a ranger not to open with lbow knockback for once.

> The best thing they can do is burst down pesky thieves working the outside and backline. Some of the pets a are a real nuisance for anyone with a cast time.

 

again, another argument based on a outdated and misinformed premise. go study the function of Soulbeast and to some degree, Druid, in relation to the new specializations.

[anduriell.6280]

If the stances other than Doylak were actually useful and the GM trait would apply the full duration would have an amazing place as frontline bruiser.

 

Example of a actually useful stance:

Doylak itself applies stability (good) but the most important thing: For 6 seconds you are immune to chilled, immobilise and crippled. That buff can't be corrupted or ripped as such although limited is better than resistance for the melee spear.

 

Other stances unfortunately aren't any good, being bear and moa almost there but failing short at the end. Bear because of the long CD can't keep you alive and Moa because the without heavy investment in concentration the ranger has access only to short duration sharing boons (being the warhorn the exception) .

 

Other than that Jarcanda merged soulbeast is an strong ally to have close if the ranger knows his game.

[cafard.8953]

> @Rampage.7145 said:

> Why are the rangers always the saltiest class? like **i kick every ranger** thief **and ranger** from my squad all the time

 

Looks like you're the one with a ranger obsession bro. ;)

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

Why do you have to make a fuss, you don't belong in a zerg fight, as a thief main I know I don't belong in a zerg and I don't even attempt to join...we are better of in havoc/roaming grps and not large scale zerg fights

[Prysin.8542]

> @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> Why do you have to make a fuss, you don't belong in a zerg fight, as a thief main I know I don't belong in a zerg and I don't even attempt to join...we are better of in havoc/roaming grps and not large scale zerg fights

 

strawman argument. A Thief is not a ranger and a ranger is not a thief. The two classes, even with their specialization, far more different, then they were ever similar.

 

A thief is purpose designed to hit A single target, with A big hit. A ranger was designed to be a sustained damage profession. All the attacks are high damage skills, but there is just 4 burst skills (Rapid Fire, Maul, Path of Scars, Worldly Impact) spread out throughout all the weapons and beastmode. The ranger is more of a half-point between the extreme versatility and slippery-ness of the Engineer, and the extreme DPS and evasion of a thief.

 

Whilst a burst LB ranger is similar in function to a thief, the burst LB ranger CAN supply support beyond its DPS, the thief will not.

 

> @anduriell.6280 said:

> If the stances other than Doylak were actually useful and the GM trait would apply the full duration would have an amazing place as frontline bruiser.

>

> Example of a actually useful stance:

> Doylak itself applies stability (good) but the most important thing: For 6 seconds you are immune to chilled, immobilise and crippled. That buff can't be corrupted or ripped as such although limited is better than resistance for the melee spear.

>

> Other stances unfortunately aren't any good, being bear and moa almost there but failing short at the end. Bear because of the long CD can't keep you alive and Moa because the without heavy investment in concentration the ranger has access only to short duration sharing boons (being the warhorn the exception) .

>

> Other than that Jarcanda merged soulbeast is an strong ally to have close if the ranger knows his game.

 

I totally agree that bear and moa stance needs further improvement, and i think the 50% duration for allies is harsh. But for once, rangers HAVE these abilities, unlike in the past. That is a big deal. The access is almost certainly more important then the function. You can work around a limited function, but having access to said function is the existential prequisite for such a work-around to even be designed.

 

I agree that bear stance is weak for allies, personally i think it should be 6 seconds long, given the 25 sec CD. I think Anet nailed it with Dolyak stance. Any longer "base" duration for the ranger would be brokenly OP (total movement impedement and control immunity is crazy strong, especially as it is a stunbreaker ontop of all that). Moa can be very strong, especially if you use those Sigils that boost boon duration upon swap. I linked a build earlier in this thread, it should allow for incredible high protection uptime.

 

It is a damned shame that the Ranger traits "Rugged Growth" and "Second Skin" alongside "Vicious Quarry" does not transfer to other players being affected by the rangers boons. It would be such a great improvement, especially "Vicious Quarry", given rangers warhorn, would give ranger a truly unique function that would not neccessarily impact their solo performance. Given that these traits exist and affect the ranger today, rangers shouldnt get any stronger on their own by granting these effects to others. Although, i understand that there may be severe technical limitations as to why Anet hasnt done this already.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

As far as I'm aware, roaming for 4 years rangers and druids have ALWAYS been a roamer havoc class, not a zergling class. No strawman argument here, I was just using my own class as an example.

[Jana.6831]

I was no loss for the zergs/blob I ran with as a thief. Daggerstorm is very nice on weakened or downed enemies. It's not easy to run as a near full zerker thief with a blob though: Did it for 4 years and likely had an idea what I was doing. And I depended on the blob, I couldn't do anything when they were just running around to run away.

Nevertheless: In this current meta I would be dead instantly. So maybe wait what anet has to offer for wvw balance.

Other than that: Ranger could do well in a zerg but for that anet would need to either change existing weapons or give them some new which do some ranged AoE damage. And a pet that makes ranged attacks.

The dependency on boons for blobs is something they need to nerf as well - I want combos back!

 

[Swamurabi.7890]

If rangers had [Frozen Soil](https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Frozen_Soil) they would have a guaranteed spot in every zerg._

[Rampage.7145]

Ok, a guardian can probably be a steath ninja class too, put some infiltrator runes run arround with a friend that drops you smoke fields so you can blast or leap tru, but that dosn't mean it is as efficient as a thief to perform this task, it is just not designed for it or with that task in mind, sure you could probably make it work but it is not efficient, same analogy aplies to a ranger trying to zerg on a blob. Ranger just lacks compared to other classes trying to perform the same role, it is not cuz we commanders never played ranger, in fact i love my ranger i probably have more hours played on my ranger in SPvP than you do, but that is besides the point. Ranger and any pet classes in most games excel at solo content, ranger is designed with that in mind it is a cool class to solo roam arround in PvP, PvE, WvW but it dosnt really provide as much as other top pick classes when you try to blob on a squad for example, it has limited group synergy, most of ranger synergy is designed to be arround the pet and not arround party members, that is the core flaw of this class that dosnt really allow it to excell at any party/group role and this becomes worst the bigger the groups are. Nobody is saying Soulbeast cannot be good on a group, it is just not as good as other classes. Commanders in WvW want to win fights so they want their squad to be the best as possible, so if they need a slot for a damage dealer and there is a necro or a warrior hanging out arround outside the squad they will kick the ranger to invite them, if they need morre stability and there is a guardian they will kick the ranger and invite the guardian.

Maybe try to actually play differrent classes like guards, warriors, necros, and understand them, so you can actually judge how good your soulbeast is comapred to those. Most commanders have good/deep knowleadge of all classe tbh, that is the only way to be good at this game as a commander, try that for yourself maybe it will help you understand the problem with ranger a little bit.

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

> @Rampage.7145 said:

> ... ~snip~ ...try that for yourself maybe it will help you understand the problem with ranger a little bit.

 

The thread title is the recognition of the problem, the entire point of the thread is asking for solutions, not further explanation of the problem.

 

[Rampage.7145]

Remove the pets, balance ranger damage so it dosnt take the pet into account would be great for ranger damage output, make a ranger with no pets all boon skills arround the party instead gg problem solved

[Trajan.4953]

I'd like for there to be NO rangers.

[Prysin.8542]

> @Rampage.7145 said:

> Remove the pets, balance ranger damage so it dosnt take the pet into account would be great for ranger damage output, make a ranger with no pets all boon skills arround the party instead gg problem solved

 

aka soulbeast?

you are asking for exactly what the class got. pet merge with stat increase to weigh up for some of the damage, in addition to more skills. Is it perfect? no?, is it a start? yes.

 

you, and others, are so disconnected with rangers. You say you play it, yet you clearly do not keep up with the class beyond copy and pasting pre-buildt setups from Metabattle and looking at youtube videos on how to play said build.

[Sethanon Stormrage.6721]

> @KeyOrion.9506 said:

> I would at this time ask that the Commanders of all Servers VOICE their opinion what they would like to see Rangers have

 

A firebrand, scourge or spellbreaker alt they can bring instead

[cafard.8953]

> @Rampage.7145 said:

> Remove the pets, balance ranger damage so it dosnt take the pet into account would be great for ranger damage output, make a ranger with no pets all boon skills arround the party instead gg problem solved

 

That's a bit silly imho, as this is exactly what the new spec brought, and precisely why as much as an improvement as it is, it comes up exactly at the wrong time for wvw due to peak boon hate. Plus Firebrand is taking boon support to a new level.

[jaif.3518]

I really don't see the complaint here: you're picking up a saw and asking why you can't hammer nails. Go saw some wood, or pick up a hammer.

[Prysin.8542]

> @cafard.8953 said:

> > @Rampage.7145 said:

> > Remove the pets, balance ranger damage so it dosnt take the pet into account would be great for ranger damage output, make a ranger with no pets all boon skills arround the party instead gg problem solved

>

> That's a bit silly imho, as this is exactly what the new spec brought, and precisely why as much as an improvement as it is, it comes up exactly at the wrong time for wvw due to peak boon hate. Plus Firebrand is taking boon support to a new level.

 

to a new level of punishment. So many guardians are crying about being rekt in PvP and WvW now due to Scourge and spellbreaker walking all over them thanks to their class vomiting boons all over the place

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

Given Scourges are shaping the meta, and that they are so weak to ranged Power damage, I'm surprised that commanders aren't looking at incorporating a group of rangers with the task of targeting and taking out Scourges. Soulbeast has a good amount of unblockability now, so you can't say "But reflections!" anymore.

 

Deadeye can't go unblockable, so Ranger is superior in this role.

[KayCee.4653]

@"Drarnor Kunoram.5180"

This is why Scourges get parties the front line parties, because once a scourge is in it. They can do massive damage and rarely need to worry about healing or anything. On scourge I've rarely had to worry about being over runned by power bow rangers or power build spell breakers, just know to avoid their winds skill. EDIT: For some scourges, until they understand when to fake out a spellbreaker using winds and the greatsword No. 2 skill, they may get wrecked in a fight, but generally, in a proper squad comp this shouldn't happen. And even if not, they should find ways to avoid it from happening in the first place.

 

Soulbeast, even I've tried since I'm also a commander (why you should always have one or more of every class in the game with different armors, to know what to expect from them). I can say that even in a group, the bomb from Soulbeasts is too one person target, and with the way the meta currently is, it is almost like the old days of HoT release in that its pirate shipping. Whoever can bomb the most people the fastest before a major push through will likely win... :( Hate that fact, but its actually how some blob vs blob fights play through.

 

However, I'll also add that this isn't necessarily the soulbeast's fault nor ranger in general. I've noticed in PUG blobs that have too many single target players that any organized blob that has a proper ranged multiple target burst (be it from Scourge shades, Wells, Winds, etc.) can overrun a blob that is trying to focus on single targeting one or more members of other classes. And with the number of interrupts that can occur and stripping of boons, there not much of some classes in WvW except for scouting, roaming, and the like.

 

But in looking through the old forum's threads I'm reminded too of how people even said that Druid healing was so much better than Elementalist/Tempest, but people still prefered Ele/Tempest to Druid. Much more versatile. With that said, most commanders won't give Rangers or any of the Ranger elite specs any time of day as they aren't as versatile and practical as having an OP healing tempest or what not.