What would Commanders/Players in WvW like to see for Rangers bring to Group Play.

[Prysin.8542]

> @KayCee.4653 said:

> @"Drarnor Kunoram.5180"

 

problem of ranger versatility is that it must be learnt, not copied. You can copy a staff tempest setup and boom, waterfield bonanza, meteor bonanza, static bonanza...

but you could do the same with a engineer, just more complicated in terms of managing cooldowns, and ranger is much the same. The potential is there, but you aint going to shoehorn a scrub into that role. It requires deep knowledge of how to play the class.

 

And here-in lies the core problem. All over the place you see "commanders" claim, "oh yeah, i got a ranger, i know how it works". And when they play it, they show up in trash builds from 2015, or at the very best has copied a METABATTLE build without understanding how it works, assuming "because its Meta, it must be faceroll easy". Its not. This class in WvW and PvP, is not for doodling around like you can do on a guardian or revenant. It requires active play, much more akin to a elementalist that is caught by the other teams frontline. You CANNOT rest, you CANNOT snooze. If you do, you get rekt. And that is what happens time and time again. These commanders log on their rangers to prove that ranger sucks. They wipe due to bad play or bad build, and blame the class. They didnt like the class to begin with, and they do so well on their guardian when in their 5 man guardian group, so they start making these malicious or at best misinformed conclusions about the class.

But the best part is, NONE of them will admitt that they suck playing the class and got rekt for it.

 

yet when i just stroll alongside them in the zergs on my GS ranger, who is left? my ranger. Why? because i evade the enemy bomb, i hit the enemy BEFORE im standing in a sea of red circles. Am i some kind of ranger god? hardly. I simply pay attention to what im doing. But if not playing seriously is what makes or breaks a class's ability to be viable, then this game has strayed too far from being a game, and too close to being a interactive movie.

[Norbe.7630]

a 50 man squad using the old fashioned meta build runs stik wit mee vs a 50 man rangers/druids/soulbeasts using guerilla tactics on an openfield WvW fight?

ill place my bets on rangers

even if its only 50 traditional vs 30 rangers

i still go with rangers

 

"Never give a sword to a man who can't dance."

-Confucius

 

imagine just 10 of these against your whole server.....

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

> @Norbe.7630 said:

> a 50 man squad using the old fashioned meta build runs stik wit mee vs a 50 man rangers/druids/soulbeasts using guerilla tactics on an openfield WvW fight?

> ill place my bets on rangers

> even if its only 50 traditional vs 30 rangers

> i still go with rangers

>

> "Never give a sword to a man who can't dance."

> -Confucius

>

> imagine just 10 of these against your whole server.....

>

 

Would be a bit more impressive if those players were better. For example, the Necro was camping staff with only one target. You had the period when all opponents we're standing in the Vebtari bubble doing nothing else, etc.

 

Still, surviving that long against 4 foes is not easy.

[Norbe.7630]

> @"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said:

 

> Would be a bit more impressive if those players were better. For example, the Necro was camping staff with only one target. You had the period when all opponents we're standing in the Vebtari bubble doing nothing else, etc.

>

> Still, surviving that long against 4 foes is not easy.

 

btw it wasn't me, he is just a member of a guild of the best roamers i knew in the game, even saw one of their guardian/dragonhunter 1v10 a group and shattered them 1 by 1

 

back to topic, rangers are the easiest class to play with, but to tell you the truth, it is the hardest one to master....

every comment you see on a ranger being useless on a group?, means they have limited info of what ranger can do, i guess too much metabattle reliance and lack of creativity to blame them....

they have the mentality of group being a bowling ball hitting pins

[Jana.6831]

That video is a year old, druids healing ability has been nerfed quite a lot, that necro was vanilla, the others hadn't figured out to play yet, the one pet is broken, no idea if they've fixed it, didn't see that many rangers in wvw lately.

And: It doesn't say anything about rangers zerg ability which this topic is about. Yeah they are good romaers - but we already knew that.

[Norbe.7630]

> @Jana.6831 said:

> That video is a year old

the meta **group play** was 5 years old......

> And: It doesn't say anything about rangers zerg ability which this topic is about. Yeah they are good romaers - but we already knew that.

What would Commanders/Players in WvW like to see for Rangers bring to Group Play.

What would Players in WvW like to see for Rangers bring to Group Play.

Players in WvW like to see for Rangers bring to Group Play.

Players in WvW

Rangers Group

Rangers Zerg

50 Ranger vs 50 Vanilla groups thats like 100 vs 50

even a minion master necro zerg cant out damage them without putting themselves at risk

 

its not the skills, traits and pets that makes a difference about rangers, its the gameplay

Rangers are not healbots, they are killbots

[dagneyandleo.6378]

First off, I'd want them to swap to an alt if they could, because I probably have 5 other people trying to play ranger and they either don't have alts or aren't in TS. Or they're the one person in my guild we let play ranger, and I *know* they won't die on inc. As in any competitive game with multi-classing, certain classes/heroes are flat out better for certain styles of play... If you're in a squad with a solitary commander instead of just pug clouding, that commander wants freedom of movement and the ability to make their group move as one. That means stability primarily and more stability to spare if you're pugmanding and you can't control the experience/quality of your player base. A bad guard still can unintentional give stab. A semi-bad ranger is dead on engage and rallies the enemy... A truly bad ranger is preferable to semi-bad because they die **before** the engage lol. For a reliable melee push in this meta, you need at least 2 guards per party, especially in a pug cloud, which leaves three party spots. Those spots will go to the classes I need, need support to live and that don't take a masters degree to play halfway decent: warriors, necros, mesmers, and eles.

 

That being said, to the initial point: What do I want from a ranger who has no other alt? It depends on the makeup of the squad. Generally there are two scenario's:

 

---

I. The Ideal Scenario:

I have a squad filled to the brim with guards and I've got an extra party with 1 guard, a rev or mesmer, a scourge, a backline ele or holosmith or spellbreaker, and the perfect place for YOU, the ranger. (Please give me this dream, oh Anet gods.)

 

What I want:

- Soulbeast on Haematic's build (https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fgw2skills.net%2Feditor%2F%3FvNAQNBhQD7kgXohXsjXwkFgqFsMJY592g7x95z15%2BYNBgGwEIFWftW1A-jFCswAxVGEV3A09HAoEj0FBAkSj%2BKBDr%2BTAAEgbezsZbG8zf%2Bzf%2Bzf2195P%2F5P%2F5P%2F5P%2F5PLFgfr0A-w) ... It's very jack of all trades (similar to engi), but it provides a variety of unstrippable support utilities from stances that are nice, if not quite as strong as some other alternatives. Any type of group condi clear is better than none in this meta.

 

---

II. The Normal Scenario

I have a squad of 37 with 6 guards. I've already had to create iffy-at-best parties with my guildies prioritized first, then the classes that need support/provide unique utilities. The best thing you can bring as a ranger is being helpful to the group outside of a frontline party. Most importantly, and this is key: You need to survive on your own. That is your priority. Same goes with thieves or engis: If you're gonna yolo in beside me and die, then you're a liability. If you do it consistently, you'll be kicked.

 

What I want:

1. Druid - Heal druids can do a significant amount of direct heals while still being self sufficient, which makes them better than almost any other class for this outside-the-group support role.

2. Adventurer/scout - Call this out if you're doing it and I'll give you squad participation. This is essentially supported roaming... If you're willing to inform me of the movements of enemy groups and are good at surviving and calling numbers/guild names so I can find people to fight, then you're a step above the average ranger. I've heard there's an absolutely insane one-shot Soulbeast build running around that would work for this role, since it's good for both roaming and picking off the fringes of zergs. I only want one person doing this at a time.

[Prysin.8542]

> @dagneyandleo.6378 said:

> First off, I'd want them to swap to an alt if they could, because I probably have 5 other people trying to play ranger and they either don't have alts or aren't in TS. Or they're the one person in my guild we let play ranger, and I *know* they won't die on inc. As in any competitive game with multi-classing, certain classes/heroes are flat out better for certain styles of play... If you're in a squad with a solitary commander instead of just pug clouding, that commander wants freedom of movement and the ability to make their group move as one. That means stability primarily and more stability to spare if you're pugmanding and you can't control the experience/quality of your player base. A bad guard still can unintentional give stab. A semi-bad ranger is dead on engage and rallies the enemy... A truly bad ranger is preferable to semi-bad because they die **before** the engage lol. For a reliable melee push in this meta, you need at least 2 guards per party, especially in a pug cloud, which leaves three party spots. Those spots will go to the classes I need, need support to live and that don't take a masters degree to play halfway decent: warriors, necros, mesmers, and eles.

>

> That being said, to the initial point: What do I want from a ranger who has no other alt? It depends on the makeup of the squad. Generally there are two scenario's:

>

> ---

> I. The Ideal Scenario:

> I have a squad filled to the brim with guards and I've got an extra party with 1 guard, a rev or mesmer, a scourge, a backline ele or holosmith or spellbreaker, and the perfect place for YOU, the ranger. (Please give me this dream, oh Anet gods.)

>

> What I want:

> - Soulbeast on Haematic's build (https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fgw2skills.net%2Feditor%2F%3FvNAQNBhQD7kgXohXsjXwkFgqFsMJY592g7x95z15%2BYNBgGwEIFWftW1A-jFCswAxVGEV3A09HAoEj0FBAkSj%2BKBDr%2BTAAEgbezsZbG8zf%2Bzf%2Bzf2195P%2F5P%2F5P%2F5P%2F5PLFgfr0A-w) ... It's very jack of all trades (similar to engi), but it provides a variety of unstrippable support utilities from stances that are nice, if not quite as strong as some other alternatives. Any type of group condi clear is better than none in this meta.

 

 

As a very very long time ranger player, i can tell that said stat combination is poorly optimized. Yes it gives you some of what ranger need/want for a support class. But the low vitality is a death sentence in a high condi spam meta, aka the whole darn game atm. Will it work? yes. Is it as good as it could be? no.

But as usual, if you are a commander, you must know best, so i whatever i suggest will be handily ignored.

[Haematic.4913]

> @Prysin.8542 said:

> > @dagneyandleo.6378 said:

> > First off, I'd want them to swap to an alt if they could, because I probably have 5 other people trying to play ranger and they either don't have alts or aren't in TS. Or they're the one person in my guild we let play ranger, and I *know* they won't die on inc. As in any competitive game with multi-classing, certain classes/heroes are flat out better for certain styles of play... If you're in a squad with a solitary commander instead of just pug clouding, that commander wants freedom of movement and the ability to make their group move as one. That means stability primarily and more stability to spare if you're pugmanding and you can't control the experience/quality of your player base. A bad guard still can unintentional give stab. A semi-bad ranger is dead on engage and rallies the enemy... A truly bad ranger is preferable to semi-bad because they die **before** the engage lol. For a reliable melee push in this meta, you need at least 2 guards per party, especially in a pug cloud, which leaves three party spots. Those spots will go to the classes I need, need support to live and that don't take a masters degree to play halfway decent: warriors, necros, mesmers, and eles.

> >

> > That being said, to the initial point: What do I want from a ranger who has no other alt? It depends on the makeup of the squad. Generally there are two scenario's:

> >

> > ---

> > I. The Ideal Scenario:

> > I have a squad filled to the brim with guards and I've got an extra party with 1 guard, a rev or mesmer, a scourge, a backline ele or holosmith or spellbreaker, and the perfect place for YOU, the ranger. (Please give me this dream, oh Anet gods.)

> >

> > What I want:

> > - Soulbeast on Haematic's build (https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fgw2skills.net%2Feditor%2F%3FvNAQNBhQD7kgXohXsjXwkFgqFsMJY592g7x95z15%2BYNBgGwEIFWftW1A-jFCswAxVGEV3A09HAoEj0FBAkSj%2BKBDr%2BTAAEgbezsZbG8zf%2Bzf%2Bzf2195P%2F5P%2F5P%2F5P%2F5PLFgfr0A-w) ... It's very jack of all trades (similar to engi), but it provides a variety of unstrippable support utilities from stances that are nice, if not quite as strong as some other alternatives. Any type of group condi clear is better than none in this meta.

>

>

> As a very very long time ranger player, i can tell that said stat combination is poorly optimized. Yes it gives you some of what ranger need/want for a support class. But the low vitality is a death sentence in a high condi spam meta, aka the whole darn game atm. Will it work? yes. Is it as good as it could be? no.

> But as usual, if you are a commander, you must know best, so i whatever i suggest will be handily ignored.

 

You're undervaluing the clearing capability of the build. I've had no issues with conditions running this build and I've had nothing but good feedback from players I've issued this build to on the Fort-Aspenwood server. Actually, I've heard a lot of praise from commanders that had this ranger as a filler spot in their party.

 

Just FYI -- The heal pulses condition removal, two every second for 4-seconds and it clears 2-conditions immediately with the Muddy Terrain + Wilderness survival GM. Then you have the condition removal on Entangle, when you swap pets in combat (-2 conditions every 12-seconds CD) and -2 conditions when you use Quickening Zephyr.

 

Also, ranger was my main for about 2-years, PvP, PvE, Roaming and even commanding (on Druid); I wouldn't say I'm wrong per-say but there are many alternative solutions / builds that would work and help players who experience more trouble with conditions than I do, but at the end of the day it just comes down to positioning and cool-down management.

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

> @Haematic.4913 said:

> > @Prysin.8542 said:

> > > @dagneyandleo.6378 said:

> > > First off, I'd want them to swap to an alt if they could, because I probably have 5 other people trying to play ranger and they either don't have alts or aren't in TS. Or they're the one person in my guild we let play ranger, and I *know* they won't die on inc. As in any competitive game with multi-classing, certain classes/heroes are flat out better for certain styles of play... If you're in a squad with a solitary commander instead of just pug clouding, that commander wants freedom of movement and the ability to make their group move as one. That means stability primarily and more stability to spare if you're pugmanding and you can't control the experience/quality of your player base. A bad guard still can unintentional give stab. A semi-bad ranger is dead on engage and rallies the enemy... A truly bad ranger is preferable to semi-bad because they die **before** the engage lol. For a reliable melee push in this meta, you need at least 2 guards per party, especially in a pug cloud, which leaves three party spots. Those spots will go to the classes I need, need support to live and that don't take a masters degree to play halfway decent: warriors, necros, mesmers, and eles.

> > >

> > > That being said, to the initial point: What do I want from a ranger who has no other alt? It depends on the makeup of the squad. Generally there are two scenario's:

> > >

> > > ---

> > > I. The Ideal Scenario:

> > > I have a squad filled to the brim with guards and I've got an extra party with 1 guard, a rev or mesmer, a scourge, a backline ele or holosmith or spellbreaker, and the perfect place for YOU, the ranger. (Please give me this dream, oh Anet gods.)

> > >

> > > What I want:

> > > - Soulbeast on Haematic's build (https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fgw2skills.net%2Feditor%2F%3FvNAQNBhQD7kgXohXsjXwkFgqFsMJY592g7x95z15%2BYNBgGwEIFWftW1A-jFCswAxVGEV3A09HAoEj0FBAkSj%2BKBDr%2BTAAEgbezsZbG8zf%2Bzf%2Bzf2195P%2F5P%2F5P%2F5P%2F5PLFgfr0A-w) ... It's very jack of all trades (similar to engi), but it provides a variety of unstrippable support utilities from stances that are nice, if not quite as strong as some other alternatives. Any type of group condi clear is better than none in this meta.

> >

> >

> > As a very very long time ranger player, i can tell that said stat combination is poorly optimized. Yes it gives you some of what ranger need/want for a support class. But the low vitality is a death sentence in a high condi spam meta, aka the whole darn game atm. Will it work? yes. Is it as good as it could be? no.

> > But as usual, if you are a commander, you must know best, so i whatever i suggest will be handily ignored.

>

> You're undervaluing the clearing capability of the build. I've had no issues with conditions running this build and I've had nothing but good feedback from players I've issued this build to on the Fort-Aspenwood server. Actually, I've heard a lot of praise from commanders that had this ranger as a filler spot in their party.

>

> Just FYI -- The heal pulses condition removal, two every second for 4-seconds and it clears 2-conditions immediately with the Muddy Terrain + Wilderness survival GM. Then you have the condition removal on Entangle, when you swap pets in combat (-2 conditions every 12-seconds CD) and -2 conditions when you use Quickening Zephyr.

>

> Also, ranger was my main for about 2-years, PvP, PvE, Roaming and even commanding (on Druid); I wouldn't say I'm wrong per-say but there are many alternative solutions / builds that would work and help players who experience more trouble with conditions than I do, but at the end of the day it just comes down to positioning and cool-down management.

 

What am I missing here? what is the point of the 400 points in Expertise while having zero in condi damage?

[Haematic.4913]

> @"Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582" said:

> > @Haematic.4913 said:

> > > @Prysin.8542 said:

> > > > @dagneyandleo.6378 said:

> > > > First off, I'd want them to swap to an alt if they could, because I probably have 5 other people trying to play ranger and they either don't have alts or aren't in TS. Or they're the one person in my guild we let play ranger, and I *know* they won't die on inc. As in any competitive game with multi-classing, certain classes/heroes are flat out better for certain styles of play... If you're in a squad with a solitary commander instead of just pug clouding, that commander wants freedom of movement and the ability to make their group move as one. That means stability primarily and more stability to spare if you're pugmanding and you can't control the experience/quality of your player base. A bad guard still can unintentional give stab. A semi-bad ranger is dead on engage and rallies the enemy... A truly bad ranger is preferable to semi-bad because they die **before** the engage lol. For a reliable melee push in this meta, you need at least 2 guards per party, especially in a pug cloud, which leaves three party spots. Those spots will go to the classes I need, need support to live and that don't take a masters degree to play halfway decent: warriors, necros, mesmers, and eles.

> > > >

> > > > That being said, to the initial point: What do I want from a ranger who has no other alt? It depends on the makeup of the squad. Generally there are two scenario's:

> > > >

> > > > ---

> > > > I. The Ideal Scenario:

> > > > I have a squad filled to the brim with guards and I've got an extra party with 1 guard, a rev or mesmer, a scourge, a backline ele or holosmith or spellbreaker, and the perfect place for YOU, the ranger. (Please give me this dream, oh Anet gods.)

> > > >

> > > > What I want:

> > > > - Soulbeast on Haematic's build (https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fgw2skills.net%2Feditor%2F%3FvNAQNBhQD7kgXohXsjXwkFgqFsMJY592g7x95z15%2BYNBgGwEIFWftW1A-jFCswAxVGEV3A09HAoEj0FBAkSj%2BKBDr%2BTAAEgbezsZbG8zf%2Bzf%2Bzf2195P%2F5P%2F5P%2F5P%2F5PLFgfr0A-w) ... It's very jack of all trades (similar to engi), but it provides a variety of unstrippable support utilities from stances that are nice, if not quite as strong as some other alternatives. Any type of group condi clear is better than none in this meta.

> > >

> > >

> > > As a very very long time ranger player, i can tell that said stat combination is poorly optimized. Yes it gives you some of what ranger need/want for a support class. But the low vitality is a death sentence in a high condi spam meta, aka the whole darn game atm. Will it work? yes. Is it as good as it could be? no.

> > > But as usual, if you are a commander, you must know best, so i whatever i suggest will be handily ignored.

> >

> > You're undervaluing the clearing capability of the build. I've had no issues with conditions running this build and I've had nothing but good feedback from players I've issued this build to on the Fort-Aspenwood server. Actually, I've heard a lot of praise from commanders that had this ranger as a filler spot in their party.

> >

> > Just FYI -- The heal pulses condition removal, two every second for 4-seconds and it clears 2-conditions immediately with the Muddy Terrain + Wilderness survival GM. Then you have the condition removal on Entangle, when you swap pets in combat (-2 conditions every 12-seconds CD) and -2 conditions when you use Quickening Zephyr.

> >

> > Also, ranger was my main for about 2-years, PvP, PvE, Roaming and even commanding (on Druid); I wouldn't say I'm wrong per-say but there are many alternative solutions / builds that would work and help players who experience more trouble with conditions than I do, but at the end of the day it just comes down to positioning and cool-down management.

>

> What am I missing here? what is the point of the 400 points in Expertise while having zero in condi damage?

 

The autos + #2 on dagger have poison apps and re-apps and the condi duration helps the conditions stick b/c when you're cleaving downs its generally a good thing to have poison on them and that sticks on them.

 

The Muddy Terrain Immobilize, Cripple and slow effects that are instant and that pulse also have stickier applications.

 

And of course, Entangle immobilize stack across the pulsing duration adds a whole other second of immobilize.

 

That's all, really.

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

> @Haematic.4913 said:

> > @"Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582" said:

> > > @Haematic.4913 said:

> > > > @Prysin.8542 said:

> > > > > @dagneyandleo.6378 said:

> > > > > First off, I'd want them to swap to an alt if they could, because I probably have 5 other people trying to play ranger and they either don't have alts or aren't in TS. Or they're the one person in my guild we let play ranger, and I *know* they won't die on inc. As in any competitive game with multi-classing, certain classes/heroes are flat out better for certain styles of play... If you're in a squad with a solitary commander instead of just pug clouding, that commander wants freedom of movement and the ability to make their group move as one. That means stability primarily and more stability to spare if you're pugmanding and you can't control the experience/quality of your player base. A bad guard still can unintentional give stab. A semi-bad ranger is dead on engage and rallies the enemy... A truly bad ranger is preferable to semi-bad because they die **before** the engage lol. For a reliable melee push in this meta, you need at least 2 guards per party, especially in a pug cloud, which leaves three party spots. Those spots will go to the classes I need, need support to live and that don't take a masters degree to play halfway decent: warriors, necros, mesmers, and eles.

> > > > >

> > > > > That being said, to the initial point: What do I want from a ranger who has no other alt? It depends on the makeup of the squad. Generally there are two scenario's:

> > > > >

> > > > > ---

> > > > > I. The Ideal Scenario:

> > > > > I have a squad filled to the brim with guards and I've got an extra party with 1 guard, a rev or mesmer, a scourge, a backline ele or holosmith or spellbreaker, and the perfect place for YOU, the ranger. (Please give me this dream, oh Anet gods.)

> > > > >

> > > > > What I want:

> > > > > - Soulbeast on Haematic's build (https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fgw2skills.net%2Feditor%2F%3FvNAQNBhQD7kgXohXsjXwkFgqFsMJY592g7x95z15%2BYNBgGwEIFWftW1A-jFCswAxVGEV3A09HAoEj0FBAkSj%2BKBDr%2BTAAEgbezsZbG8zf%2Bzf%2Bzf2195P%2F5P%2F5P%2F5P%2F5PLFgfr0A-w) ... It's very jack of all trades (similar to engi), but it provides a variety of unstrippable support utilities from stances that are nice, if not quite as strong as some other alternatives. Any type of group condi clear is better than none in this meta.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > As a very very long time ranger player, i can tell that said stat combination is poorly optimized. Yes it gives you some of what ranger need/want for a support class. But the low vitality is a death sentence in a high condi spam meta, aka the whole darn game atm. Will it work? yes. Is it as good as it could be? no.

> > > > But as usual, if you are a commander, you must know best, so i whatever i suggest will be handily ignored.

> > >

> > > You're undervaluing the clearing capability of the build. I've had no issues with conditions running this build and I've had nothing but good feedback from players I've issued this build to on the Fort-Aspenwood server. Actually, I've heard a lot of praise from commanders that had this ranger as a filler spot in their party.

> > >

> > > Just FYI -- The heal pulses condition removal, two every second for 4-seconds and it clears 2-conditions immediately with the Muddy Terrain + Wilderness survival GM. Then you have the condition removal on Entangle, when you swap pets in combat (-2 conditions every 12-seconds CD) and -2 conditions when you use Quickening Zephyr.

> > >

> > > Also, ranger was my main for about 2-years, PvP, PvE, Roaming and even commanding (on Druid); I wouldn't say I'm wrong per-say but there are many alternative solutions / builds that would work and help players who experience more trouble with conditions than I do, but at the end of the day it just comes down to positioning and cool-down management.

> >

> > What am I missing here? what is the point of the 400 points in Expertise while having zero in condi damage?

>

> The autos + #2 on dagger have poison apps and re-apps and the condi duration helps the conditions stick b/c when you're cleaving downs its generally a good thing to have poison on them and that sticks on them.

>

> The Muddy Terrain Immobilize, Cripple and slow effects that are instant and that pulse also have stickier applications.

>

> And of course, Entangle immobilize stack across the pulsing duration adds a whole other second of immobilize.

>

> That's all, really.

 

Personally I don't think it's worth it for such small durations, I'd rather put those stats into precision/healing/vitality/concentration, but each to their own.

 

Edit: Something funny is going on with the editor atm...

[Haematic.4913]

> @"Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582" said:

> > @Haematic.4913 said:

> > > @"Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582" said:

> > > > @Haematic.4913 said:

> > > > > @Prysin.8542 said:

> > > > > > @dagneyandleo.6378 said:

> > > > > > First off, I'd want them to swap to an alt if they could, because I probably have 5 other people trying to play ranger and they either don't have alts or aren't in TS. Or they're the one person in my guild we let play ranger, and I *know* they won't die on inc. As in any competitive game with multi-classing, certain classes/heroes are flat out better for certain styles of play... If you're in a squad with a solitary commander instead of just pug clouding, that commander wants freedom of movement and the ability to make their group move as one. That means stability primarily and more stability to spare if you're pugmanding and you can't control the experience/quality of your player base. A bad guard still can unintentional give stab. A semi-bad ranger is dead on engage and rallies the enemy... A truly bad ranger is preferable to semi-bad because they die **before** the engage lol. For a reliable melee push in this meta, you need at least 2 guards per party, especially in a pug cloud, which leaves three party spots. Those spots will go to the classes I need, need support to live and that don't take a masters degree to play halfway decent: warriors, necros, mesmers, and eles.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > That being said, to the initial point: What do I want from a ranger who has no other alt? It depends on the makeup of the squad. Generally there are two scenario's:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ---

> > > > > > I. The Ideal Scenario:

> > > > > > I have a squad filled to the brim with guards and I've got an extra party with 1 guard, a rev or mesmer, a scourge, a backline ele or holosmith or spellbreaker, and the perfect place for YOU, the ranger. (Please give me this dream, oh Anet gods.)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > What I want:

> > > > > > - Soulbeast on Haematic's build (https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fgw2skills.net%2Feditor%2F%3FvNAQNBhQD7kgXohXsjXwkFgqFsMJY592g7x95z15%2BYNBgGwEIFWftW1A-jFCswAxVGEV3A09HAoEj0FBAkSj%2BKBDr%2BTAAEgbezsZbG8zf%2Bzf%2Bzf2195P%2F5P%2F5P%2F5P%2F5PLFgfr0A-w) ... It's very jack of all trades (similar to engi), but it provides a variety of unstrippable support utilities from stances that are nice, if not quite as strong as some other alternatives. Any type of group condi clear is better than none in this meta.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > As a very very long time ranger player, i can tell that said stat combination is poorly optimized. Yes it gives you some of what ranger need/want for a support class. But the low vitality is a death sentence in a high condi spam meta, aka the whole darn game atm. Will it work? yes. Is it as good as it could be? no.

> > > > > But as usual, if you are a commander, you must know best, so i whatever i suggest will be handily ignored.

> > > >

> > > > You're undervaluing the clearing capability of the build. I've had no issues with conditions running this build and I've had nothing but good feedback from players I've issued this build to on the Fort-Aspenwood server. Actually, I've heard a lot of praise from commanders that had this ranger as a filler spot in their party.

> > > >

> > > > Just FYI -- The heal pulses condition removal, two every second for 4-seconds and it clears 2-conditions immediately with the Muddy Terrain + Wilderness survival GM. Then you have the condition removal on Entangle, when you swap pets in combat (-2 conditions every 12-seconds CD) and -2 conditions when you use Quickening Zephyr.

> > > >

> > > > Also, ranger was my main for about 2-years, PvP, PvE, Roaming and even commanding (on Druid); I wouldn't say I'm wrong per-say but there are many alternative solutions / builds that would work and help players who experience more trouble with conditions than I do, but at the end of the day it just comes down to positioning and cool-down management.

> > >

> > > What am I missing here? what is the point of the 400 points in Expertise while having zero in condi damage?

> >

> > The autos + #2 on dagger have poison apps and re-apps and the condi duration helps the conditions stick b/c when you're cleaving downs its generally a good thing to have poison on them and that sticks on them.

> >

> > The Muddy Terrain Immobilize, Cripple and slow effects that are instant and that pulse also have stickier applications.

> >

> > And of course, Entangle immobilize stack across the pulsing duration adds a whole other second of immobilize.

> >

> > That's all, really.

>

> Personally I don't think it's worth it for such small durations, I'd rather put those stats into precision/healing/vitality/concentration, but each to their own.

>

> Edit: Something funny is going on with the editor atm...

 

Yeah just my experience between sPvP, roaming and large scale WvW ... poison is king so I always make sure to enable poison where it makes sense.

[coglin.1496]

> @KeyOrion.9506 said:

>What would Commanders/Players in WvW like to see for Rangers bring to Group Play?

 

The same thing we want from every profession, either AoE heals, AoE damage, AoE stability, AoE boon strip, or AoE condition clears that is equal to or greater than what is available now with the GWEN classes. This is needed for all the medium armor professions to be desired.

 

 

[Kovu.7560]

> @"Sethanon Stormrage.6721" said:

> > @KeyOrion.9506 said:

> > I would at this time ask that the Commanders of all Servers VOICE their opinion what they would like to see Rangers have

>

> A firebrand, scourge or spellbreaker alt they can bring instead

 

This fucking game. ._.

 

Anywho. More support utilities/traits need to affect 10 people, 'Wilderness Knowledge' needs to allow survival skills (including those proc'd via 'Soften the Fall' and 'Zephyr's Speed') to affect allies, Druid healing skills need to have larger AOEs so that zergs can move a bit within them (this includes Celestial Shadow), and Soulbeast's 'Leader of the Pack' needs to have stances affect allies for their full duration and grant a 20% cooldown reduction. Traps need to not suck, 'Search and Rescue' needs to have a range of at least 900, be reliable and allow the ranger to target specific downs on cast should they desire (by, say, selecting them before casting). That's just a start. I could go on.

 

Long story short rangers need more things that affect them _and_ allies. The reason they're fine for roaming is because they have a lot of really good but really selfish abilities. Rangers don't need stronger personal skills, they need their existing shit to also affect allies.

 

~ Kovu

 

Edit- Oh, and some god damn AOEs. Fuck.

[sephiroth.4217]

I like longbow rangers with piercing arrows. I'm not picky though and welcome all.

[Sigz.6943]

> @katniss.6735 said:

> I'd like a ranger not to open with lbow knockback for once.

agreed using knock back on anything that isn't a champ(interrupts on players is fine) is just trolling ,and will just add to the profession being hated.

 

 

[ArchonWing.9480]

The truth? Exceptions abound, especially with the most hardcore players, but in general Gw2 is not a very high skill cap game( (relative to other competitive games) especially as suggested before that WvW is particularly bad because it was not only balanced but a result as the fallout from their attempted esports balancing. And it's only gotten worse. The general trend since HoT (and maybe before) but especially with the expansion here is a tendency towards hard counters, passive play, and buy-for-power mechanics that simply go "If you don't have X, you will lose even if you massively outplay the opponent most of the time". Basically, individual agency in a large fight is consistently getting neutered. Added to this, the game itself has generally encouraged blobbing and leeching, and thus isn't really conductive to individual improvement. I mean this is the game mode where manipulating population stacking to ~~get easier wins~~ find better fights is a common phenomenon,. Yes, if you read this forum and the other one it would seem that fights are what this game mode's about, but even the combined userbase is merely a minority.

 

So basically, we have a game that doesn't really care for skill that much that encourages players to not have to grow. What's the expected result? Well, most players are really bad even for a casual game. Most can't handle the most basic of instructions because they mostly have not had to since they've always been able to follow a tag or log off if they're not on. But look at it like this. What do they have to gain from getting better? Probably not enough. So would you want a player like that on an optimal class to have some semblance of use, or a class that might be able to be played well, but said player has no chance of making it work? Now let's say you have 40 people you're managing. Are you going to interview all 15 rangers of their capabilities? Maybe if you're one of the fortunate ones to have a lieutenant to put to that duty, but I'm pretty sure they'll hate you by the end of the day.

 

"But, but, I'm really skilled!". And you might actually be. But the thing is what is needed isn't skills. What is needed is more warm bodies providing the needed boons and heals for sustain and skill can not change that. If you want to be the exception to the rule, then you need to find people who will listen.

 

Just for clarity, I'm not claiming the game has no skill. But rather that it does very little to encourage players to get better and in fact quite the opposite. This is heavily reflected in the player base, and thus commanders really have practical reasons for what they do and it's not because they hate you or think you suck. Well, most. It's really nothing personal. To them, you're just an icon in squad. But look it at this way. To you, they're probably just a "get participation here" icon.