Not bad Anet, not bad

[Meteor.3720]

> @"Ithilwen.1529" said:

The pew pew spec Deadeye can down a Mirage fast. Like any Mesmer, the key to fighting a Mirage is to stay calm.

 

Please stop.

[Aeolus.3615]

> @"Ithilwen.1529" said:

> > @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > > @"zoopop.5630" said:

> > > > @"Razor.6392" said:

> > > > Druid will rule this patch together with holosmith.

> > >

> > > or druid/mesmer are gonna rule this patch together because you know 6-8 clones/phatasma isn't OP on a power spec right? LoLs

> >

> > and people said i was being paranoid that this patch would increase the passive mesmer gameplay, it just shortened the effect, i think i am gona delete my ghaurdian after 6 years and bee a good lamer like Anet want us to be, and play classes that ANet dev's play only.

> >

> > Still need to figure out how some players are 1 hit KO other players with mesmer on WvW(happens more often).

>

> It's not a "1 hit" KO. It only looks like that because you set up with vulnerability and / or conditions before delivering the big shatter punch. ( Ideally. ) Players often miss the fact that they are in trouble until the shatter hits.

 

Conditions? ive seen this on power builds.

Need to see if i can produce this on my vanilla account :\ ( i dont play spvp with hoT not PoF account, maybe i need to start being carried to xD )

 

[Ithilwen.1529]

> @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > @"Ithilwen.1529" said:

> > > @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > > > @"zoopop.5630" said:

> > > > > @"Razor.6392" said:

> > > > > Druid will rule this patch together with holosmith.

> > > >

> > > > or druid/mesmer are gonna rule this patch together because you know 6-8 clones/phatasma isn't OP on a power spec right? LoLs

> > >

> > > and people said i was being paranoid that this patch would increase the passive mesmer gameplay, it just shortened the effect, i think i am gona delete my ghaurdian after 6 years and bee a good lamer like Anet want us to be, and play classes that ANet dev's play only.

> > >

> > > Still need to figure out how some players are 1 hit KO other players with mesmer on WvW(happens more often).

> >

> > It's not a "1 hit" KO. It only looks like that because you set up with vulnerability and / or conditions before delivering the big shatter punch. ( Ideally. ) Players often miss the fact that they are in trouble until the shatter hits.

>

> Conditions? ive seen this on power builds.

>

 

I said "and/or." The attack routine in power is to build vulnerability, ( often not noticed by your opponent, ) then shatter. Simply shattering will get you killed fast. It's about timing. So much the better if you or a teammate can weaken them with, say, conditions.

 

The new Phantasms are more or less designed to make the build up easier. Shatters alone won't hurt much.

[Aeolus.3615]

@Ithilwen.1529, ah tks :) gona try it.

[Zintrothen.1056]

Yeah it's a great patch...if you aren't a Weaver or a rev

[pah.4931]

> @"Zintrothen.1056" said:

> Yeah it's a great patch...if you aren't a Weaver or a rev

 

Or a Firebrand. Punished for our fathers' (read: scourges) sins.

[Ithilwen.1529]

I like that FB was looking like the new Monk. Still, it was entirely too good combined with Scourge. I agree that had Scourge not been there, FB wouldn't have gotten hit so hard.

[Vaeo.4097]

> @"Meteor.3720" said:

> Doesn't mean Elusive Mind shouldn't get nerfed.

 

Are you playing mesmer, Meteor? No? Than how can you say that nerf was insufficient?

Holosmith, Spellbreaker, Druid essentially can't be CCed. And it's ok for you. But Illisive Mind is insanely OP. Is that logical?

 

By the way, most mesmers switched to power builds. Because condi build became rather weak. And power builds wasn't somehow buffed in this patch. So how do you judge that Mirage is still OP only 2 days after patch?

 

And about Illusive Mind. Holosmith and Spellbreaker have insanely high damage and many CC and gap closers. One CC from them -- and mesmer's dead. Illusive Mind, obviously, was introduced to balance this insane damage. If you want less stunbreaks, than reduce amount of CC and overall damage in game. Take Chronomancer (which has one stunbreak) and play some matches to understand that HoT times are over.

[Funkystuff.1563]

> @"Sarrs.4831" said:

> > @"Funkyshit.9126" said:

> > guys in case you didnt understand holosmith in nerfed quite big . no more cleanse for holo and it is a melee class. at least druid wont ruin the game as scourge did( scourge will still be on top of the game)

>

> Anti-corrosion plating with hard light arena maybe? I don't know anything about holosmith but if you can go anticorrosion plating/purity of purpose/holosmith you'd end up with one of the best condition-removing fields in the game, completely delete condi pressure for any of your friends standing in a massive area for 12 seconds.

>

> Looking at the top rated holosmith build on Metabattle you could probably switch Alchemy for Inventions and do pretty nicely.

 

to be honest alchemy is very important however the biggest nerf was in hgh. you can go they way you said but you forget about might stacking and elixirs that most of them are very usefull . i like the thing that i can test different builds but holo certainly isnt that strong as before

[Meteor.3720]

> @"Vaeo.4097" said:

> > @"Meteor.3720" said:

> > Doesn't mean Elusive Mind shouldn't get nerfed.

>

Oh gosh. Another forum warrior who think's he's pro because he bought PoF and made it to Gold Div.

 

> Are you playing mesmer, Meteor? No? Than how can you say that nerf was insufficient?

The nerf was insufficient because that one trait is too strong and was left untouched. Stunbreak on dodge, which is paired with almost permanent vigor and (often) double energy sigils makes for spammable stunbreak and an overtuned trait. Not to mention it removes a condi too.

 

> Holosmith, Spellbreaker, Druid essentially can't be CCed. And it's ok for you. But Illisive Mind is insanely OP. Is that logical?

>

Those 3 professions have stability (holo 2 stack on corona burst, spellbreaker on passive stance and FC, Druid on elite and CA 5), which is a normal mechanic that can be baited, stripped and countered. Certainly not the case that they "can't be CCed".

Holo then has 1 stunbreak, spellbreaker has 1 active stunbreak and 1 passive stunbreak, and Druid has 2 stunbreak. That's it.

Mirage on the other hand has a stunbreak every single dodge, which as above, they have a lot of. It works out as about a stunbreak every 5 seconds or so. So yes, that is OP, and entirely different from the other 3 classes. Their mechanics are not comparable. Stunbreak should be rare otherwise it's too easy to avoid getting punished for making mistakes.

 

> By the way, most mesmers switched to power builds. Because condi build became rather weak. And power builds wasn't somehow buffed in this patch. So how do you judge that Mirage is still OP only 2 days after patch?

 

Power builds were buffed. The double mindwrack from shatterstorm trait is a buff. The phantasms is a buff too as their damage was increased on the first attack. Yes, they then turn into clones, but most phantasms either died or were shattered after their first attack pre-patch anyway.

Mirage is OP because as I said before, their ability to combine massive burst damage with mobility (sword ambush, blink, jaunt, portal) and disengage (stunbreak on dodge + mobility + distortion etc). None of this was touched by the update, so they are still OP and that's clear, even if it is 2 days after the patch.

>

> And about Illusive Mind. Holosmith and Spellbreaker have insanely high damage and many CC and gap closers. One CC from them -- and mesmer's dead. Illusive Mind, obviously, was introduced to balance this insane damage. If you want less stunbreaks, than reduce amount of CC and overall damage in game. Take Chronomancer (which has one stunbreak) and play some matches to understand that HoT times are over.

 

Spellbreaker doesn't have insanely high damage. Most people agree they're in a pretty good position at the moment. Holosmith might have a few things overtuned a bit, but that's a different issue to Mirage. Other classes being strong does not mean that Mirage is in a good position and elusive mind shouldn't be nerfed.

The idea that "one CC from them - and mesmer's dead" is a joke. You have so many stunbreaks and invulns you should be fine (if you're half-competent) to either avoid getting stunned or negate it. That's true even with elusive mind nerfed to a reasonable place. The damage also isn't so high you should get 100-0 so easily when stunned. Also, landing a CC should be rewarding and they should be able to do some damage to you whilst you are stunned. Don't argue for keeping an overpowered trait just because they damage you when you cant dodge or counter the obvious (and limited) CC they all have.

 

Also FYI I play reaper pretty much exclusively, so I know the balance of HoT builds compared to PoF. I also know people can make them work if they're not braindead and carried purely by PoF powercreep.

 

 

[witcher.3197]

> @"Meteor.3720" said:

> Holo then has 1 stunbreak, spellbreaker has 1 active stunbreak and 1 passive stunbreak, and Druid has 2 stunbreak. That's it.

 

I agree with you but just for the sake of arguement:

 

Holo has 2 stunbreakers (3 if we count passive) and spammable stability with a lot of dodges.

 

Spellbreaker has 2 active stunbreaks, 2 passives and spammable stability.

 

Druid has 3 stunbreakers and signet of stone.

[Meteor.3720]

> @"witcher.3197" said:

> > @"Meteor.3720" said:

> > Holo then has 1 stunbreak, spellbreaker has 1 active stunbreak and 1 passive stunbreak, and Druid has 2 stunbreak. That's it.

>

> I agree with you but just for the sake of arguement:

>

> Holo has 2 stunbreakers (3 if we count passive) and spammable stability with a lot of dodges.

>

> Spellbreaker has 2 active stunbreaks, 2 passives and spammable stability.

>

> Druid has 3 stunbreakers and signet of stone.

 

My bad. Although I do think builds are changing so that's not entirely true?

Holo has Elixir U and passive elixir S. The builds I've seen post patch don't often have Elixir S active? It's optional though.

Spellbreaker has 1 active (endure pain) and 2 passive (endure pain and balanced stance). Featherfoot grace is optional with beserker stance.

You're right on druid, if you include CA, although obviously this won't be immediately accessible. Signet of stone is also kinda different so I didn't include it.

 

I talked about stability. SB definitely isn't spammable though - only on the passive stance and FC. Holo is also limited by overheat.

 

Glad you agree it doesn't change the basis of my post though! :p

[allias.1420]

> @"pah.4931" said:

> ANET LOGIC:

>

> Scourge is completely broken for conquest designed maps (where people are forced to fight on red circles of death), made much worse by letting people class swap before a match begins (stacking OP classes).

>

> Firebrand offers great team support, but that support makes Scourges even better.

>

> NERF Firebrand to the ground so they either play bunker or reroll (who likes team fights anyways?). Don't address any of the core Scourge problems in PvP, but instead,make their red circles of death blink (I already knew to get the hell out of the red circles) and make their conditions negligibly worse.

>

> GG

 

Are you dumb? No one is forced to fight on the red circles. You playing against a scourge by kiting around it. Stacking classes is unfair? Are you serious bro? Stacking classes doesn't increase the chances of winning a game. What increases the chances of winning a game is an all round balanced comp.

 

Stop complaining and learn to play against the damn classes already. That goes to everyone who complains about this shit

[pah.4931]

> @"allias.1420" said:

> > @"pah.4931" said:

> > ANET LOGIC:

> >

> > Scourge is completely broken for conquest designed maps (where people are forced to fight on red circles of death), made much worse by letting people class swap before a match begins (stacking OP classes).

> >

> > Firebrand offers great team support, but that support makes Scourges even better.

> >

> > NERF Firebrand to the ground so they either play bunker or reroll (who likes team fights anyways?). Don't address any of the core Scourge problems in PvP, but instead,make their red circles of death blink (I already knew to get the hell out of the red circles) and make their conditions negligibly worse.

> >

> > GG

>

> Are you dumb? No one is forced to fight on the red circles. You playing against a scourge by kiting around it. Stacking classes is unfair? Are you serious bro? Stacking classes doesn't increase the chances of winning a game. What increases the chances of winning a game is an all round balanced comp.

>

> Stop complaining and learn to play against the kitten classes already. That goes to everyone who complains about this kitten

 

Calling someone else dumb does NOT ipso facto make you not dumb. Sorry.

 

And scourges are fine in a vacuum but in a game with random queuing and conquest-only, they are a problem. Not all classes can quite well. If you don't have any good ranged, you're going to have a hard time on point.

[incisorr.9502]

they keep nerfing core specs instead the elite specs

 

how bad can you be

[Boulder.3589]

> @"zoopop.5630" said:

> > @"Razor.6392" said:

> > Druid will rule this patch together with holosmith.

>

> or druid/mesmer are gonna rule this patch together because you know 6-8 clones/phatasma isn't OP on a power spec right? LoLs

 

I would like a Naruto costume to go with this please.

[Sgt Scrappy.3965]

I've done a lot of complaining in the past (and im ofc still not 100% happy). But I completely agree with this thread. At first glance this looks like one of the best balance patches Anet has ever made! Most of the known frustrations for the PvP playerbase appear to have been resolved. (scourge, oneshot-builds and immortal firebrands).

 

And on a sidenote, I was really really happy with the patch where burn skills got longer durations and less stacks. Things appear to be going in the right direction! :)

 

GJ Anet! We can finally enjoy PvP again! Keep up the good work!

(I hope so at least, reiinstalling game now)

 

 

Edit: I am withdrawing my statements above. (except the one that this was among the best balance patches ever).

- scourge still can faceroll the keyboard and ppl just die around him/her.

- Engineer still has oneshot capabilities, while maintaining a LOT of CC and has good survivability. This mix is completely unacceptable.

 

The patch was a huge leap in the right direction. But PvP still isnt fun. Game uninstalled again.

(I love this game, it was the best brawler game in the genre (before PoF). I will keep my eye out for the next patch, and pray that the game will be playable again).