So today in my 100frac

[Sister Saxifrage.7361]

Specs in a group comp that make me cringe before the run even starts:

 

(Deadeye/Scrapper)*

More than 1 necro

Weaver

1 Reaper

1 Scourge

 

*so bad they're barely even seen. That might change with recent Deadeye changes but it hasn't filtered into the general population yet.

 

I still do the run! And sometimes they do fine! But when you have someone doing 2k DPS in between dirtnaps? 10 to 1 it's a weaver or a necro.

 

[Sublimatio.6981]

> @"Sister Saxifrage.7361" said:

> Specs in a group comp that make me cringe before the run even starts:

>

> (Deadeye/Scrapper)*

> More than 1 necro

> Weaver

> 1 Reaper

> 1 Scourge

>

> *so bad they're barely even seen. That might change with recent Deadeye changes but it hasn't filtered into the general population yet.

>

> I still do the run! And sometimes they do fine! But when you have someone doing 2k DPS in between dirtnaps? 10 to 1 it's a weaver or a necro.

>

 

so more than 1 necro or 1 reaper or 1 scourge? i dont get it.

[Talindra.4958]

It's only t4 .. (other than mai) it should be all welcome :)

[Dwaynethe.7914]

Alow me to clarify.

In this discussion I was not bashing or slandering etc. Meta builds or the players that use them. My only point was and still is as @"ReaverKane.7598" stated ~"ridiculous to judge a player based off their profession"

I intentionally dont join lfgs that ask for specific dps, chrono druid etc. On my guard. Because, while I refuse to play the way someone else wants me to, I also accept that I can't force someone else to play with me when I don't play the way they want to play either.

 

To summarize and refocus. My point is we should all be able to play the way we want and enjoy playing the way we want without being stigmatized.

It is a game after all, to be played for fun and the way we like.

I was not upset the player left or dissed ( not really, but I think that's how it was meant) my build. Our group still had fun and were successful.

 

Oh and another thing: base medi virtue guard can actual provide plenty of support when traited properly and played well. Between f2 group cleanse, f3 group stun break/stability, symbol heals / enemy damage (with like 4 ways to summon them on really acceptable cds), personal invuln elite ~instant CD of all virtues to now double cast!, shouts and so much more! The same build i dominate in pug spvp with, also dominates instances pve.

[zealex.9410]

So long as the group agreed woth your setup and the guy left i dont see anything note worthy with this post.

[Sister Saxifrage.7361]

> @"Sublimatio.6981" said:

> > @"Sister Saxifrage.7361" said:

> > Specs in a group comp that make me cringe before the run even starts:

> >

> > (Deadeye/Scrapper)*

> > More than 1 necro

> > Weaver

> > 1 Reaper

> > 1 Scourge

> >

> > *so bad they're barely even seen. That might change with recent Deadeye changes but it hasn't filtered into the general population yet.

> >

> > I still do the run! And sometimes they do fine! But when you have someone doing 2k DPS in between dirtnaps? 10 to 1 it's a weaver or a necro.

> >

>

> so more than 1 necro or 1 reaper or 1 scourge? i dont get it.

 

For some reason, groups with 2 or more necros, regardless of spec, are often terrible. Single necros are also often bad, but not as often as weavers, and reapers are bad more often than scourges.

[squallaus.8321]

Scourge is usually ok. Only seen a bad reaper in recent 100CM LNHB runs that did 3k dps and didn't know the fights.

[Sister Saxifrage.7361]

True, scourge is more a symptom of numbers. Tons of people playing it so you get more bad players playing it.

 

You get 2 kinds of reapers in fractals: "I haven't changed my build since HoT release and I still don't know what to do with it", and, "I will now solo ALL 5 ORBS on Ensolyss so effortlessly that just watching me makes observers last longer the next time".

[squallaus.8321]

> @"Dwaynethe.7914" said:

> Alow me to clarify.

> In this discussion I was not bashing or slandering etc. Meta builds or the players that use them. My only point was and still is as @"ReaverKane.7598" stated ~"ridiculous to judge a player based off their profession"

> I intentionally dont join lfgs that ask for specific dps, chrono druid etc. On my guard. Because, while I refuse to play the way someone else wants me to, I also accept that I can't force someone else to play with me when I don't play the way they want to play either.

 

The purpose of dps, chrono, druid is to optimize group composition ensuring dps characters get the support that they need to maximise their dps. If you dont like that set up then you need to make up your own version of group composition but will probably have similar coverage if you want to be successful.

 

But what does your guardian bring to a group exactly? from what you said you use zerker gear, so i take it that its dps build, what dps do you do relative to the others that were in your party? You should try out arcdps, it will help you test your builds. You dont have to use meta, but you shoudl atleast do reasonable dps compared to the top dps build for your class.

 

>

> To summarize and refocus. My point is we should all be able to play the way we want and enjoy playing the way we want without being stigmatized.

> It is a game after all, to be played for fun and the way we like.

> I was not upset the player left or dissed ( not really, but I think that's how it was meant) my build. Our group still had fun and were successful.

>

> Oh and another thing: base medi virtue guard can actual provide plenty of support when traited properly and played well. Between f2 group cleanse, f3 group stun break/stability, symbol heals / enemy damage (with like 4 ways to summon them on really acceptable cds), personal invuln elite ~instant CD of all virtues to now double cast!, shouts and so much more! The same build i dominate in pug spvp with, also dominates instances pve.

 

Firebrand probably does that but better because of lower skill CDs. And additionally firebrand also bring quickness. Support fire brand is way better than core guard support.

 

 

[Faaris.8013]

> @"Vinceman.4572" said:

> Yeah, but let's be realistic. Players with "non-optimal" builds aren't most often the ones with 2-5k lower dps than the meta builds because you really don't recognize them within the dps noise of the whole group while focusing on the encounter.

> It's rather the players that are bringing really horrible dps numbers - often combined with poor mechanic gameplay (a.k.a. constantly putting flux bombs into the team or inside of bosses or constantly stacking social awkwardness due to running around like crazy). So I understand every player leaving a group before the run starts because he doesn't want to experience trouble if he can cash out his daily rewards much safer than with this sort of gambling.

 

So what is your method to evaluate if a player who just entered the group knows the mechanics and has poor dps? In my opinion, there is no way to tell unless you actually start the fractal and watch what people are doing. If you understand the player who leaves a group before the run started, what do you think he bases his opinion on?

[Sublimatio.6981]

> @"Sister Saxifrage.7361" said:

> True, scourge is more a symptom of numbers. Tons of people playing it so you get more bad players playing it.

>

> You get 2 kinds of reapers in fractals: "I haven't changed my build since HoT release and I still don't know what to do with it", and, "I will now solo ALL 5 ORBS on Ensolyss so effortlessly that just watching me makes observers last longer the next time".

 

LMAO [did we play together?](

"did we play together?")

[Faaris.8013]

> @"Sister Saxifrage.7361" said:

> For some reason, groups with 2 or more necros, regardless of spec, are often terrible. Single necros are also often bad, but not as often as weavers, and reapers are bad more often than scourges.

 

You are not alone with this view, I never join any fractal group that has more than one necro either, and I usually see them in the LFG window for a long time. Only way to fill a group that starts with 2 necros is to get more necros.

[Sephylon.4938]

> @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > @"Sister Saxifrage.7361" said:

> > For some reason, groups with 2 or more necros, regardless of spec, are often terrible. Single necros are also often bad, but not as often as weavers, and reapers are bad more often than scourges.

>

> You are not alone with this view, I never join any fractal group that has more than one necro either, and I usually see them in the LFG window for a long time. Only way to fill a group that starts with 2 necros is to get more necros.

 

5 necro mai trin shit show. Still have nightmares about that 2 hour encounter. Never again. (45ish minutes, closer to an hour but felt like forever since ppl kept leaving and we only got other necros as replacements)

[Vinceman.4572]

> @"Faaris.8013" said:

> So what is your method to evaluate if a player who just entered the group knows the mechanics and has poor dps? In my opinion, there is no way to tell unless you actually start the fractal and watch what people are doing. If you understand the player who leaves a group before the run started, what do you think he bases his opinion on?

 

My post was still targeted towards the leaving of the single player the OP mentioned. He joined a LFG with "T4 experienced". While I agree that you can't see the exp of a player beforehand I would be sceptical as well if a core guard (same for some other core specs) enters the fractal lobby. As long as there are no other signs (top tier bufffood already in use, fractal savant tooltip or higher, maybe LNHB title although that one is probably of lesser value) I wouldn't be suprised if this player will struggle as soon as the journey begins. In this case the leaver pulled the safety brake way before because it seems he wanted to be sure to have a bigger chance of not getting disappointed when choosing a different group. The OP told us that he was carrying the group which definitely has to be proven but well, he claimed so. Since a core guard is not really the thing I want to be carried with either (because it would mean I and the other players must have been terrible in playing our classes) I think the leaver made the right decision to get out of the group. Different expectations did not fit together here and it's more than likely they would have gotten into an argue if they had kept playing together.

 

This is why I rarely run outside of specific comps. Usually it doesn't apply to me anyways since I run CMs daily with likeminded people and special snowflake builds/players never get lost there. But the few days I have different groups to use (sometimes 3! 1 for CMs, then T4s and a third one for Recs) I don't care about a meta for T4s and hop onto my druid, lean back, heal the skritton out of them and give them the feeling of a well-performing group. Already a healer in there? Perfect. Switch to DH and carry even harder...

[Feanor.2358]

> @"Dwaynethe.7914" said:

> Alow me to clarify.

> In this discussion I was not bashing or slandering etc. Meta builds or the players that use them. My only point was and still is as @"ReaverKane.7598" stated ~"ridiculous to judge a player based off their profession"

> I intentionally dont join lfgs that ask for specific dps, chrono druid etc. On my guard. Because, while I refuse to play the way someone else wants me to, I also accept that I can't force someone else to play with me when I don't play the way they want to play either.

>

> To summarize and refocus. My point is we should all be able to play the way we want and enjoy playing the way we want without being stigmatized.

> It is a game after all, to be played for fun and the way we like.

> I was not upset the player left or dissed ( not really, but I think that's how it was meant) my build. Our group still had fun and were successful.

>

> Oh and another thing: base medi virtue guard can actual provide plenty of support when traited properly and played well. Between f2 group cleanse, f3 group stun break/stability, symbol heals / enemy damage (with like 4 ways to summon them on really acceptable cds), personal invuln elite ~instant CD of all virtues to now double cast!, shouts and so much more! The same build i dominate in pug spvp with, also dominates instances pve.

 

It all depends on what you do with your build.

 

If you're not aiming to clear CMs in an optimal comp, then a hybrid or an off-meta support build can be pretty good at carrying. Everything you listed will be more or less valuable for the group.

 

If, on the other hand, you're playing in an optimal meta comp, then it pretty much becomes irrelevant. Good Chronos share Aegis to negate big attacks and spam more boons than you can imagine. Druids might not have the best hps numbers in the game, but will keep you alive just fine while substantially increasing the overall dps of the group more than any other healer. And the banner warrior will bring more dps than other supports while still buffing group dps and helping with breakbars. There really is not much place for variety in 5-man groups. I mean, sure, you can replace a Druid with a Ventari rev for instance, but why would you? You'll only be gimping your party on purpose. So if you're not a support, then all you're needed for is pure dps. And all the investments in traits, utilities or stats that give you an edge become just a dps loss.

[Faaris.8013]

> @"Vinceman.4572" said:

> Already a healer in there? Perfect. Switch to DH and carry even harder...

 

And again this "carrying" thing. Either there is a great variety for the definition of "carrying" here or you guys willingly get together people who agree they need carrying. If you do the best dps in your group, or if the other players get downed once in a while, or if you do two orbs at Ensolyss, you are not carrying. There is rarely a group in T4 fractals that need real carrying, unless you specifically ask for players who are new to ther tier. I know someone who talks about "carrying" when he plays Firebrand in Twilight Oasis, while all members of the team are experienced fractal players.

 

If you really want to have a carry experience, go to Tier 1 Nightmare today (because it's daily) and welcome "all classes and newbies" to your party. It's a cake walk for players who usually do 99cm, and you will do 70% of the whole damage, and there's a good chance you do all orbs. You'll have players who don't know that they have to stand in the circles at orb phases, or somehow manage to run into red balls (it's really difficult to die at orbs in T1 because you actually have to target the few red balls and willingly run into them). That is real carrying, doing what you are expected to do in T4 with people who might just have a bad day or are sleepy and do 70% of their potential damage is not.

[Lexani.6152]

> @"Dwaynethe.7914" said:

> First, let me tell you about my main. I have played pretty much since launch with around 3k hours. It's a full zero medi virtue base guard. (I have both expansions and all specs unlocked) this is my main, the only toon I play. In all game modes with pretty much the same build. It's the toon I am the best with. ( not the best player ever, but my skill level is at its peak on this toon). I rarely die or even go down while putting out bomb spike dps. Wielding GS Sw/T and Sc/f ( when I need a little more sustain) . All zerk armor, weapons, rings amulet everything. Running zeal, radiance and virtues.

>

> Now for my experience. Today I joined a pug lfg that said (something like) t4s exp.

>

> I'm pretty good at t4s, I don't do them everyday but most days. I don't die and I know the mechanics.

>

> As soon as I joined and loaded into the mistloc observatory another player (I didn't even get the chance to see which profession he was playing, that's how soon this happened) said "core guard is not a dps build" and left the party.

>

> I admit that core guard is not the meta atm. But isn't a veteran player, playing the class I'm best at better than a player who just plays the meta all cookie cutter like. Memorizing the rotation off of a website and having no adaptability?

>

> After the player left. I asked the other party members if they minded me playing my build. I gave them a quick 101 of my build and all one member said was (honestly idgaf let's just go) .

>

>

>

>

>

> Let me tell you.....i carried that entire freaking run!

>

> Booyah! Oh and I've very recently started playing PvP consistently and also my build has been killing it there too!

>

>

 

Dude, everytime you see in LFG written like "exp", "just experienced" etc you should know that group will suck. About 90% of time. Only people who have no idea what they are doing are imagining they are good at what they are doing.

[musu.9205]

> @"Lexani.6152" said:

> > @"Dwaynethe.7914" said:

> > First, let me tell you about my main. I have played pretty much since launch with around 3k hours. It's a full zero medi virtue base guard. (I have both expansions and all specs unlocked) this is my main, the only toon I play. In all game modes with pretty much the same build. It's the toon I am the best with. ( not the best player ever, but my skill level is at its peak on this toon). I rarely die or even go down while putting out bomb spike dps. Wielding GS Sw/T and Sc/f ( when I need a little more sustain) . All zerk armor, weapons, rings amulet everything. Running zeal, radiance and virtues.

> >

> > Now for my experience. Today I joined a pug lfg that said (something like) t4s exp.

> >

> > I'm pretty good at t4s, I don't do them everyday but most days. I don't die and I know the mechanics.

> >

> > As soon as I joined and loaded into the mistloc observatory another player (I didn't even get the chance to see which profession he was playing, that's how soon this happened) said "core guard is not a dps build" and left the party.

> >

> > I admit that core guard is not the meta atm. But isn't a veteran player, playing the class I'm best at better than a player who just plays the meta all cookie cutter like. Memorizing the rotation off of a website and having no adaptability?

> >

> > After the player left. I asked the other party members if they minded me playing my build. I gave them a quick 101 of my build and all one member said was (honestly idgaf let's just go) .

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Let me tell you.....i carried that entire freaking run!

> >

> > Booyah! Oh and I've very recently started playing PvP consistently and also my build has been killing it there too!

> >

> >

>

> Dude, everytime you see in LFG written like "exp", "just experienced" etc you should know that group will suck. About 90% of time. Only people who have no idea what they are doing are imagining they are good at what they are doing.

 

tbh exp group and LNHB group are usually almost same ,there will be one or two good players but that's about it .

 

if i want best group with pug , i will just list " cm 99+ 100 + t4 title potion ".

[Vinceman.4572]

> @"Faaris.8013" said:

> And again this "carrying" thing. Either there is a great variety for the definition of "carrying" here or you guys willingly get together people who agree they need carrying. If you do the best dps in your group, or if the other players get downed once in a while, or if you do two orbs at Ensolyss, you are not carrying. There is rarely a group in T4 fractals that need real carrying, unless you specifically ask for players who are new to ther tier. I know someone who talks about "carrying" when he plays Firebrand in Twilight Oasis, while all members of the team are experienced fractal players.

>

> If you really want to have a carry experience, go to Tier 1 Nightmare today (because it's daily) and welcome "all classes and newbies" to your party. It's a cake walk for players who usually do 99cm, and you will do 70% of the whole damage, and there's a good chance you do all orbs. You'll have players who don't know that they have to stand in the circles at orb phases, or somehow manage to run into red balls (it's really difficult to die at orbs in T1 because you actually have to target the few red balls and willingly run into them). That is real carrying, doing what you are expected to do in T4 with people who might just have a bad day or are sleepy and do 70% of their potential damage is not.

 

I mentioned it because it is true for a lot of groups in T4 and sometimes for single players in CMs too. For example, a lot of T4 druids are not able to maintain 20+ stacks on the group constantly. I've even seen druids wiping first during boss fights what should never happen at all. I took players with me like the 500DPS staff reaper in Cliffside. Also had dragonhunters in my group claiming to be meta players that did one quarter of my dps and I'm not very experienced with pure dps classes. In these cases and many more **you are the player carrying a group because your impact is so much bigger than of everyone else**. That's why you can go together with a buddy playing druid and chrono and bring 3 bad players through fractals with ease. Carrying doesn't mean you are the only one fighting or providing support it means the others are secondary or not that important - sometimes even negligible.

Some more examples are: Player does abysmal dps at Mai Trin, is ranging and pulling her around resulting in a lower group dps because the stacking of the 4 others is destroyed. Such player is getting carried by others. Or people that are down for about 80% of the Bloomhunger fight - those are getting carried. Same with Underground facility where many T4 players still aren't able to survive a.k.a. dodge the mechanics and die or knowing that you can burst the final boss in one attempt or maybe even with a 2nd forgiving barrel.

[Malediktus.9250]

Learning dh enough to do better dmg than core guardian takes like an hour at most. I would kick you too or leave the group and find a new one if rest of the group does not agree. Not taking the chances for boring daily content that I want to get over with as quick as possible.

[Neutra.6857]

> @"Vinceman.4572" said:

> > @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > And again this "carrying" thing. Either there is a great variety for the definition of "carrying" here or you guys willingly get together people who agree they need carrying. If you do the best dps in your group, or if the other players get downed once in a while, or if you do two orbs at Ensolyss, you are not carrying. There is rarely a group in T4 fractals that need real carrying, unless you specifically ask for players who are new to ther tier. I know someone who talks about "carrying" when he plays Firebrand in Twilight Oasis, while all members of the team are experienced fractal players.

> >

> > If you really want to have a carry experience, go to Tier 1 Nightmare today (because it's daily) and welcome "all classes and newbies" to your party. It's a cake walk for players who usually do 99cm, and you will do 70% of the whole damage, and there's a good chance you do all orbs. You'll have players who don't know that they have to stand in the circles at orb phases, or somehow manage to run into red balls (it's really difficult to die at orbs in T1 because you actually have to target the few red balls and willingly run into them). That is real carrying, doing what you are expected to do in T4 with people who might just have a bad day or are sleepy and do 70% of their potential damage is not.

>

> I mentioned it because it is true for a lot of groups in T4 and sometimes for single players in CMs too. For example, a lot of T4 druids are not able to maintain 20+ stacks on the group constantly. I've even seen druids wiping first during boss fights what should never happen at all. I took players with me like the 500DPS staff reaper in Cliffside. Also had dragonhunters in my group claiming to be meta players that did one quarter of my dps and I'm not very experienced with pure dps classes. In these cases and many more **you are the player carrying a group because your impact is so much bigger than of everyone else**. That's why you can go together with a buddy playing druid and chrono and bring 3 bad players through fractals with ease. Carrying doesn't mean you are the only one fighting or providing support it means the others are secondary or not that important - sometimes even negligible.

> Some more examples are: Player does abysmal dps at Mai Trin, is ranging and pulling her around resulting in a lower group dps because the stacking of the 4 others is destroyed. Such player is getting carried by others. Or people that are down for about 80% of the Bloomhunger fight - those are getting carried. Same with Underground facility where many T4 players still aren't able to survive a.k.a. dodge the mechanics and die or knowing that you can burst the final boss in one attempt or maybe even with a 2nd forgiving barrel.

 

As A druid I have downed first in t4s, partially because I am trying to get too people who are running around with their heads cut off to heal them. Same thing when I try to keep stacks on them. It is kinda hard to do both those things when people won't actually stay in your heals.

[ReaverKane.7598]

> @"Dwaynethe.7914" said:

> Alow me to clarify.

> In this discussion I was not bashing or slandering etc. Meta builds or the players that use them. My only point was and still is as @"ReaverKane.7598" stated ~"ridiculous to judge a player based off their profession"

> I intentionally dont join lfgs that ask for specific dps, chrono druid etc. On my guard. Because, while I refuse to play the way someone else wants me to, I also accept that I can't force someone else to play with me when I don't play the way they want to play either.

>

> To summarize and refocus. My point is we should all be able to play the way we want and enjoy playing the way we want without being stigmatized.

> It is a game after all, to be played for fun and the way we like.

> I was not upset the player left or dissed ( not really, but I think that's how it was meant) my build. Our group still had fun and were successful.

>

> Oh and another thing: base medi virtue guard can actual provide plenty of support when traited properly and played well. Between f2 group cleanse, f3 group stun break/stability, symbol heals / enemy damage (with like 4 ways to summon them on really acceptable cds), personal invuln elite ~instant CD of all virtues to now double cast!, shouts and so much more! The same build i dominate in pug spvp with, also dominates instances pve.

 

Well, that build really does depend on the group you're playing though.

In a group with other assorted "old-school" jack of all trades it is in fact a good choice. But if you land in a group that has dedicated support classes like druid and chrono, with dedicated support builds. It will be more useful to focus on dps, especially since you said it yourself, you're using zerker gear, so compared to people using minstrel's commanders and the like your support capacity is really tame.

 

Also the invuln elite is not a great choice for pve imo, the healing signet or the shout are much better. Sure you're invulnerable during that time, but you can't do anything else. So, it's just a delayed death. While the healing signet active is a 100% heal for everyone, every time (i usually take it for the reduced healing challenge modes for the back collection), the shout, especially if you don't have a chrono is a much better choice than the invuln as well.

 

Also, while you use core Guardian by choice, Elite specs are called Elite for a reason. Firebrand offers a metric ton more support options than a core guardian (if you're going for support), and DH is a better power DPS than core Guardian. Sure you can straddle the line better. But for the most part nowadays people are using more focused buildds, so you might want to reconsider and picking to focus on either damage or support.

> @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > @"Sister Saxifrage.7361" said:

> > For some reason, groups with 2 or more necros, regardless of spec, are often terrible. Single necros are also often bad, but not as often as weavers, and reapers are bad more often than scourges.

>

> You are not alone with this view, I never join any fractal group that has more than one necro either, and I usually see them in the LFG window for a long time. Only way to fill a group that starts with 2 necros is to get more necros.

 

I don't mind double necros... I've done that several times (especially since one of the guys i do fractals regularly with plays Scourge mostly, so sometimes we end up with a second PUG necro), and in fact even when there was a guy that had lower dps than me with full minstrel's chrono, we did finish all fractals easily, and within normal time limits. The thing is, in average if at least 3-4 guys are competent, and the 5th at the very least doesn't die all the time, you'll end up with a decent run.

 

Problem is stuff like thieves and weavers (in general these are the worse offenders at this, but happens with other classes) that even though they have good damage, they simply don't know how to dodge, end up overtaxing the druid, dying, and then the druid has to stop healing the rest to ress, and that, ladies and gentlemen is **far worse** than a core class playing full celestial doing no damage but not dying.

 

[ReaverKane.7598]

> @"musu.9205" said:

> > @"Lexani.6152" said:

> > > @"Dwaynethe.7914" said:

> > > First, let me tell you about my main. I have played pretty much since launch with around 3k hours. It's a full zero medi virtue base guard. (I have both expansions and all specs unlocked) this is my main, the only toon I play. In all game modes with pretty much the same build. It's the toon I am the best with. ( not the best player ever, but my skill level is at its peak on this toon). I rarely die or even go down while putting out bomb spike dps. Wielding GS Sw/T and Sc/f ( when I need a little more sustain) . All zerk armor, weapons, rings amulet everything. Running zeal, radiance and virtues.

> > >

> > > Now for my experience. Today I joined a pug lfg that said (something like) t4s exp.

> > >

> > > I'm pretty good at t4s, I don't do them everyday but most days. I don't die and I know the mechanics.

> > >

> > > As soon as I joined and loaded into the mistloc observatory another player (I didn't even get the chance to see which profession he was playing, that's how soon this happened) said "core guard is not a dps build" and left the party.

> > >

> > > I admit that core guard is not the meta atm. But isn't a veteran player, playing the class I'm best at better than a player who just plays the meta all cookie cutter like. Memorizing the rotation off of a website and having no adaptability?

> > >

> > > After the player left. I asked the other party members if they minded me playing my build. I gave them a quick 101 of my build and all one member said was (honestly idgaf let's just go) .

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Let me tell you.....i carried that entire freaking run!

> > >

> > > Booyah! Oh and I've very recently started playing PvP consistently and also my build has been killing it there too!

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Dude, everytime you see in LFG written like "exp", "just experienced" etc you should know that group will suck. About 90% of time. Only people who have no idea what they are doing are imagining they are good at what they are doing.

>

> tbh exp group and LNHB group are usually almost same ,there will be one or two good players but that's about it .

>

> if i want best group with pug , i will just list " cm 99+ 100 + t4 title potion ".

 

You know i have all those requirements, and wouldn't join that group either.> @"Vinceman.4572" said:

> > @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > And again this "carrying" thing. Either there is a great variety for the definition of "carrying" here or you guys willingly get together people who agree they need carrying. If you do the best dps in your group, or if the other players get downed once in a while, or if you do two orbs at Ensolyss, you are not carrying. There is rarely a group in T4 fractals that need real carrying, unless you specifically ask for players who are new to ther tier. I know someone who talks about "carrying" when he plays Firebrand in Twilight Oasis, while all members of the team are experienced fractal players.

> >

> > If you really want to have a carry experience, go to Tier 1 Nightmare today (because it's daily) and welcome "all classes and newbies" to your party. It's a cake walk for players who usually do 99cm, and you will do 70% of the whole damage, and there's a good chance you do all orbs. You'll have players who don't know that they have to stand in the circles at orb phases, or somehow manage to run into red balls (it's really difficult to die at orbs in T1 because you actually have to target the few red balls and willingly run into them). That is real carrying, doing what you are expected to do in T4 with people who might just have a bad day or are sleepy and do 70% of their potential damage is not.

>

> I mentioned it because it is true for a lot of groups in T4 and sometimes for single players in CMs too. For example, a lot of T4 druids are not able to maintain 20+ stacks on the group constantly. I've even seen druids wiping first during boss fights what should never happen at all. I took players with me like the 500DPS staff reaper in Cliffside. Also had dragonhunters in my group claiming to be meta players that did one quarter of my dps and I'm not very experienced with pure dps classes. In these cases and many more **you are the player carrying a group because your impact is so much bigger than of everyone else**. That's why you can go together with a buddy playing druid and chrono and bring 3 bad players through fractals with ease. Carrying doesn't mean you are the only one fighting or providing support it means the others are secondary or not that important - sometimes even negligible.

> Some more examples are: Player does abysmal dps at Mai Trin, is ranging and pulling her around resulting in a lower group dps because the stacking of the 4 others is destroyed. Such player is getting carried by others. Or people that are down for about 80% of the Bloomhunger fight - those are getting carried. Same with Underground facility where many T4 players still aren't able to survive a.k.a. d**odge the mechanics and die or knowing that you can burst the final boss in one attempt or maybe even with a 2nd forgiving barrel.**

 

Oh My God!! That's so true, **EVERY TIME**, even at T1 (recomendeds) people will start running to the second barrel right away... That's so frustrating, especially with stuff like DH and Chrono which depends on the boss staying still to get the trap/symbol/well effects!

 

> @"Neutra.6857" said:

> > @"Vinceman.4572" said:

> > > @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > > And again this "carrying" thing. Either there is a great variety for the definition of "carrying" here or you guys willingly get together people who agree they need carrying. If you do the best dps in your group, or if the other players get downed once in a while, or if you do two orbs at Ensolyss, you are not carrying. There is rarely a group in T4 fractals that need real carrying, unless you specifically ask for players who are new to ther tier. I know someone who talks about "carrying" when he plays Firebrand in Twilight Oasis, while all members of the team are experienced fractal players.

> > >

> > > If you really want to have a carry experience, go to Tier 1 Nightmare today (because it's daily) and welcome "all classes and newbies" to your party. It's a cake walk for players who usually do 99cm, and you will do 70% of the whole damage, and there's a good chance you do all orbs. You'll have players who don't know that they have to stand in the circles at orb phases, or somehow manage to run into red balls (it's really difficult to die at orbs in T1 because you actually have to target the few red balls and willingly run into them). That is real carrying, doing what you are expected to do in T4 with people who might just have a bad day or are sleepy and do 70% of their potential damage is not.

> >

> > I mentioned it because it is true for a lot of groups in T4 and sometimes for single players in CMs too. For example, a lot of T4 druids are not able to maintain 20+ stacks on the group constantly. I've even seen druids wiping first during boss fights what should never happen at all. I took players with me like the 500DPS staff reaper in Cliffside. Also had dragonhunters in my group claiming to be meta players that did one quarter of my dps and I'm not very experienced with pure dps classes. In these cases and many more **you are the player carrying a group because your impact is so much bigger than of everyone else**. That's why you can go together with a buddy playing druid and chrono and bring 3 bad players through fractals with ease. Carrying doesn't mean you are the only one fighting or providing support it means the others are secondary or not that important - sometimes even negligible.

> > Some more examples are: Player does abysmal dps at Mai Trin, is ranging and pulling her around resulting in a lower group dps because the stacking of the 4 others is destroyed. Such player is getting carried by others. Or people that are down for about 80% of the Bloomhunger fight - those are getting carried. Same with Underground facility where many T4 players still aren't able to survive a.k.a. dodge the mechanics and die or knowing that you can burst the final boss in one attempt or maybe even with a 2nd forgiving barrel.

>

> As A druid I have downed first in t4s, partially because I am trying to get too people who are running around with their heads cut off to heal them. Same thing when I try to keep stacks on them. It is kinda hard to do both those things when people won't actually stay in your heals.

You should take the real life-guard's approach. Protect yourself first at all times. If you're dead or down, you're not healing anyone.

[Vinceman.4572]

> @"Neutra.6857" said:

> As A druid I have downed first in t4s, partially because I am trying to get too people who are running around with their heads cut off to heal them. Same thing when I try to keep stacks on them. It is kinda hard to do both those things when people won't actually stay in your heals.

 

Meanwhile as druid, I just rez people if they are in danger to wipe completely or if I know it won't down me as well. It's way better to sacrifice one player but secure scholar rune buff, might etc. for the other players. Since you don't need 5 people to get through a boss fight it's sometimes better to focus on dps and finish the frac instead of rezzing. It's not a general thing but as a veteran player you can estimate the outcome of the situation, especially if you have an inexperienced player with you.

[Faaris.8013]

> @"Vinceman.4572" said:

> Meanwhile as druid, I just rez people if they are in danger to wipe completely or if I know it won't down me as well. It's way better to sacrifice one player but secure scholar rune buff, might etc. for the other players. Since you don't need 5 people to get through a boss fight it's sometimes better to focus on dps and finish the frac instead of rezzing. It's not a general thing but as a veteran player you can estimate the outcome of the situation, especially if you have an inexperienced player with you.

 

I make up on the fly who's worth ressing. I have even told people to ignore the downed healer and get the weaver up, because the healer didn't heal anyway, but the weaver did dps. If your dps meter tells you the dps player did little damage anyway, no need to waste time on ressing him.