Mirage Condi Clone build debacle

[dontlook.1823]

Just wanted to start by saying I'm very pleased with the most recent changes to Mesmer. As of now they have three viable builds Condi/Power/Support. Shout out to the devs for their awesome balance work. I really think this should be their goal for each and every profession within the game. Really fine job on their part.

 

However, with the most recent changes, and since before the recent changes, the Chaos line remains the top choice for the Condition Clone build on Mirage. This is troubling for a few reasons. I will go ahead and name a couple.

 

One is that the devs recently stated they wanted Mesmers to feel more rewarded by using their profession mechanic. I like the idea of using the Illusions trait line over the Chaos trait line simply because it seems like the obvious choice, right? More confusion duration, stronger torch burns, torment on shatter, and stronger phastasms.

 

But because clones interaction with the Duelist trait 'sharper images', keeping clones alive for the whole duration of the fight remains the best option for this build.

 

 

I really do not think this should be the case. Especially with the most recent changes to Mirage and the very clear statement that players should be rewarded for using their mechanic not punished. It's sort of just like the old sword sword phat build prepatch. Summon clones auto and throw in a blurred frenzy here and there.

 

The second reason is quite simply the Mesmer should not be rewarded so greatly in DPS for specing in a defensive trait line. Illusions is very clearly the Condi offensive trait line and yet it still remains inferior to the Chaos line.

 

I'm not exactly sure how this problem can be addressed but I do think it's a small change that could maybe happen within the next balance patch to keep Mesmers inline with the idea of getting more reward for using their shatter abilities.

 

Any suggestions? This build is by far one of the funniest I've ever played in the sense that it's constantly doing damage even while evading. That and infinite horizon has to be the single most coolest trait afforded to the Mesmer.

 

Some suggestions I have of my own would be to make the torment on shatter just a pinch stronger. That and maybe improve Cry of Frustration so it can be similar to Mind Wrack in effectiveness but it's Condi-counter part.

 

Kudos to the development team for their recent changes to each Mesmer spec. I really hope changes like these can carry out for other professions in the game. I also look forward to changes that will be more in line with the idea of rewarding profession mechanic usage. Cause as of now I don't want to be punished for generating a clone ( interuppts the auto so less bleeds and less torment) and or shatter said clone (no bleeds/not enough torment) the risk is just not greater than the reward ATM.

 

All ideas welcome!

 

Note: This is for PvE clone build.

[melrokk.5938]

I completely agree.

I would also like to ask the developers of ANet. When will the skills of mirage be changed, which use confusion for something else? :/

On another damage condition, since confusion is **generally useless now**.

[dontlook.1823]

> @"melrokk.5938" said:

> I completely agree.

> I would also like to ask the developers of ANet. When will the skills of mirage be changed, which use confusion for something else? :/

> On another damage condition, since confusion is **generally useless now**.

 

I would like to see that as well. The highest confusion tick I've seen in PvE is 4.8k on active damage. Which is nice but it's sadly an overall loss to DPS to even try to add that extra bit of confusion to your rotation. Also, the inactive tick was scary low...

[Sodeni.6041]

I also hate that chaos gives you more DPS output than illusions with condi mirage. SC updated their benchmarks and still chaos is better than illusions.

[Refia Montes.3205]

> @"Sodeni.6041" said:

> I also hate that chaos gives you more DPS output than illusions with condi mirage. SC updated their benchmarks and still chaos is better than illusions.

Chaos will always be objectively better just because of the 3% Condi Duration/Boon Duration trait per boon on you. In most scenarios you'll always have 6-7 boons on you giving you 18-21% Condi Duration from the line alone. As long as that trait exist, or there's nothing in Illusions to compete with it, Chaos will always be picked over Illusions.

 

Sidenote: I love that Mirage has Infinite Horizon while Chrono has Chronophantasma. It's pretty awesome if you think about it. One is about becoming one with the clones, syncing with them and making them stronger. While the other allows Phantasms of yourself to return again for another strike in time.

[Jace al Thor.6745]

> @"Refia Montes.3205" said:

> > @"Sodeni.6041" said:

> > I also hate that chaos gives you more DPS output than illusions with condi mirage. SC updated their benchmarks and still chaos is better than illusions.

> Chaos will always be objectively better just because of the 3% Condi Duration/Boon Duration trait per boon on you. In most scenarios you'll always have 6-7 boons on you giving you 18-21% Condi Duration from the line alone. As long as that trait exist, or there's nothing in Illusions to compete with it, Chaos will always be picked over Illusions.

>

> Sidenote: I love that Mirage has Infinite Horizon while Chrono has Chronophantasma. It's pretty awesome if you think about it. One is about becoming one with the clones, syncing with them and making them stronger. While the other allows Phantasms of yourself to return again for another strike in time.

 

This. Not to forget that Chaotic Dampening is a condition damage increase based off toughness. So even though meta PvE condi Mesmer doesn’t run toughness it’s still a better damage boost than anything illusions offers.

 

But to me chaos isn’t a purely defensive trait line. To me it’s more of a support line with bountiful disillusionment, chaotic interruptions, etc. but that’s my opinion.

 

Illusions, no core Mesmer in general, either needs significant buffs to some of the traits as they’re underwhelming, or the elite specs need to be brought down to pre hot levels. This is across the board however for all professions currently

[ButcherofMalakir.4067]

Dont forget that last patch chaos was buffed because you have one more boon (alacrity) so more condi duration :D

[Lanhelin.3480]

> @"dontlook.1823" said:

> But because clones interaction with the Duelist trait 'sharper images', keeping clones alive for the whole duration of the fight remains the best option for this build.

 

I suggest to try out

Duelist 1/3/1 and

Illusion 2/2/1

 

It's built around Persistence of Memory (Illusions 2/./.) that results in almost perma fury (up to 40 seconds), that you can share or keep for yourself, because every time a phant becomes a clone it transfers its fury (Duel 1/./.) and any other boon to you. Use the two staff phants (fury sums up regarding duration) and a utility phant (Disenchanter) and other weapons x/x you like and let it rain crits. I did not test this tree setup with Mirage though, but made some good experiences with Chaos 2/3/1 or Inspiration 3/3/2 (also transfers Aegis and auto-distributes the boons thanks to ././2) or Domination 2/2/3 or Chrono 1/1/1 (Chronophantasma instead of Lost Time if you want to get more useful phants).

I also didn't test with power but condition gear to make the clones more useful. So the damage of phants was secondary, the priority was to have them available again before fury expires. Even without Chrono this is possible due to additive duration.

 

These build variations ofc won't work if the Illusions tree is not taken. To shatter is not necessary but shatter players might find a build better suited to their playstyle.

[Sodeni.6041]

> @"Refia Montes.3205" said:

> > @"Sodeni.6041" said:

> > I also hate that chaos gives you more DPS output than illusions with condi mirage. SC updated their benchmarks and still chaos is better than illusions.

> Chaos will always be objectively better just because of the 3% Condi Duration/Boon Duration trait per boon on you. In most scenarios you'll always have 6-7 boons on you giving you 18-21% Condi Duration from the line alone. As long as that trait exist, or there's nothing in Illusions to compete with it, Chaos will always be picked over Illusions.

>

> Sidenote: I love that Mirage has Infinite Horizon while Chrono has Chronophantasma. It's pretty awesome if you think about it. One is about becoming one with the clones, syncing with them and making them stronger. While the other allows Phantasms of yourself to return again for another strike in time.

 

And I think that's a bad design of a defensive trait line. These traits should be reworked or switched to illusions traitline.

[Jace al Thor.6745]

> @"Sodeni.6041" said:

> > @"Refia Montes.3205" said:

> > > @"Sodeni.6041" said:

> > > I also hate that chaos gives you more DPS output than illusions with condi mirage. SC updated their benchmarks and still chaos is better than illusions.

> > Chaos will always be objectively better just because of the 3% Condi Duration/Boon Duration trait per boon on you. In most scenarios you'll always have 6-7 boons on you giving you 18-21% Condi Duration from the line alone. As long as that trait exist, or there's nothing in Illusions to compete with it, Chaos will always be picked over Illusions.

> >

> > Sidenote: I love that Mirage has Infinite Horizon while Chrono has Chronophantasma. It's pretty awesome if you think about it. One is about becoming one with the clones, syncing with them and making them stronger. While the other allows Phantasms of yourself to return again for another strike in time.

>

> And I think that's a bad design of a defensive trait line. These traits should be reworked or switched to illusions traitline.

 

Not really. If you run chaos all three grandmaster traits are concerning boons so thematically it fits chaos.

The issue isn’t chaos being condi, it’s that the condi bonuses in illusions need work.

[Angel de Lyssa.4716]

Well ... I'm not very happy, basically the nerf Confusion (especially in the durations), it's as it eliminated 80% from the game, you barely see it already use, and no use, because is not effective.

 

If you decide to play with the traits chaos, you basically play with "bleed" and "torment", because "confusion" you only inflict with "Ineptitude", which is in the trait duels.

But if I want to play on the basis of "Confusion", I lose a lot of damage base condition, because trait duels do not have a similar trait how Chaotic Transference. This is what the trait duelist of mesmer line needs, to trait that grants damage conditions, for example:

 

**Master Fencer Gain**

_Condition damage based on your accuracy._

Gain Condition Damage Based on a Percentage of Precision: 10%

 

Because if you remove the traits chaos line, the base condition damage is greatly reduced, and to deal decent damage with the "confusion" on pvp, you need at least 1,500 damage conditions.

 

With line trait duels, no more than 1,200 base damage conditions, you are forced to sacrifice amulets that increase the duration of conditions if you want to increase more than 1,200 base condition damage. What's more, that's another problem, because if you do not put amulets that increase the duration of condition (minimum 60%), the duration of the "Confusion" does not even reach 3s on pvp.

 

You see that it is badly balanced, there is no synergy, and playing in pvp with "confusion" damage with durations of 2s, is the worst that Arenanet has done. It should be minimum that lasts 3s or 4s. "Confusion" in pvp, if you do not have at least 1,500 base condition damage, you will do little, with 1,200 base condition damage is barely noticeable, and is ineffective.

 

To that, you add, that the scepter is totally useless, but completely 100% useless in all the senses, duration of low confusion, you need 1,500 base damage of minimum condition, and that your "confusion" lasts at least 3s

 

Line traits chaos is good synergy with staff, and sword or other weapons, but for scepter, need yes or yes, the trait duels for the "ineptitude", and the ax the same, because does sinergy with "ineptitude" on the nearby foes. But playing with... 1.200 base damage conditions... is low for "confusion".

 

And change to line traits chaos ... it inflict little "confusion" and I have to sacrifice amulets that increase the duration of the conditions, to take advantage of the "hardness" with "Chaotic Transference". Finally, or completely eliminate the "confusion" of the game, or replace it with another condition, because right now it is totally ineffective, both in damage and duration.

 

 

 

[Arlette.9684]

Chaos is a defensive line, the only reason why it’s still the chery pick over illusions is because several counter intuitive traits in Illusions, lack of an actually good GM trait. And yes the boon duration as @"Pyroatheist.9031" was explaining it to me yday makes up for an average of 20-30% condi duraion in PvE/Raid which in turn allows you to roll for less duration on your gear and invest in more power for example.

It’s not that there’s anything wrong with Chaos, it’s that Illusions needs a tune up on several traits.

[Refia Montes.3205]

> @"Angel de Lyssa.4716" said:

>

> **Master Fencer Gain**

> _Condition damage based on your accuracy._

> Gain Condition Damage Based on a Percentage of Precision: 10%

>

 

 

Um no. Dueling is all about Vigor generation, critical hits (improving it whether through critical damage/ferocity or adding bleeding to it.) and Dueling (blinds, dodges). That includes Ferocity and Sword improvement. Fencer's Finnese is perfect as is, and fits the traitline. And to add, Fencing is part of the Mesmer theme as well.

[narcx.3570]

They would have to buff illusions to an insane level to get it to out dps all the bonus Condition Duration of Chaos in a raid scenario... Or add a Torment Duration trait in there, or something like that... But that'd be OP too, since then you'd get all of that free duration in addition to the other offensive gains in Illusions... At least they can justify having such a strong trait in Chaos, because there's not a ton of other dps spikes in there--and Chaotic Persistence's steady 21-27% condi duration is debatably the strongest dps trait in the game--of any class.

 

I mean, you could probably get something respectable going if you really wanted to with Illusions and Dueling's constant clone generation via constant evades, but it'd only be "better" for short fights, or fights with lots of different targets--like some of the fractals.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

Originally I picked illusion over chaos for one reason: the shatters. Mirage is terrible at dealing a lot of damage to groups, and in fractals those were surprisingly common. So, I would take illusions and spec for shatters, that way I could outload a lot of damage in an AoE. The ability to mass daze a group was a tertiary benefit. But, now that the lines have been reworked and confusion is terrible, there is no longer a good condi shatter. That has fallen by the wayside...

 

The easiest way to fix this would be to revert the confusion changes for PVE only. Then, the shatter spec can come back. But, purity of purpose and all, so that isn't going to happen.

[dontlook.1823]

> @"narcx.3570" said:

> They would have to buff illusions to an insane level to get it to out dps all the bonus Condition Duration of Chaos in a raid scenario... Or add a Torment Duration trait in there, or something like that... But that'd be OP too, since then you'd get all of that free duration in addition to the other offensive gains in Illusions... At least they can justify having such a strong trait in Chaos, because there's not a ton of other dps spikes in there--and Chaotic Persistence's steady 21-27% condi duration is debatably the strongest dps trait in the game--of any class.

>

> I mean, you could probably get something respectable going if you really wanted to with Illusions and Dueling's constant clone generation via constant evades, but it'd only be "better" for short fights, or fights with lots of different targets--like some of the fractals.

 

> @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:

> Originally I picked illusion over chaos for one reason: the shatters. Mirage is terrible at dealing a lot of damage to groups, and in fractals those were surprisingly common. So, I would take illusions and spec for shatters, that way I could outload a lot of damage in an AoE. The ability to mass daze a group was a tertiary benefit. But, now that the lines have been reworked and confusion is terrible, there is no longer a good condi shatter. That has fallen by the wayside...

>

> The easiest way to fix this would be to revert the confusion changes for PVE only. Then, the shatter spec can come back. But, purity of purpose and all, so that isn't going to happen.

 

Argh, I know. I can't help but think of Chaos as it was before the changes to Stats from traitlines where it was Toughness/Boon Duration. Even some of the traits still resonate with the theme of Defense. On another note, I think it would be cool if the Devs reworked Cry of Frustration. I've always thought if it as the Condi variant of Mind Wrack but it pails in comparison. They should take the damage off of it and make it a really strong condition burst skill useful in both scenarios sustained (when traited) and short fights. I like their whole philosophy of wanting to reward players who expend more skills but after the most recent balance changes the Mirage Condi Clone build is completely counter intuitive to this setup. I've stated that its similar to the Sword/Sword Phat build but sadly its exactly like it.

 

I'm over the whole confusion changes. Although they were a bit brash in the sense that it fit the Mesmer so well. Torment puts Mesmers in a better spot since there are more bosses that move or at least are considered moving during fights. Allowing for that full damage. Thinking about it, its really silly since Torment is very similar to confusion. But, ah well. Cry babies win I guess. I was really looking forward to them finally affording Confusion to Necros through an Elite spec and really seeing this condition shine. Not gonna happen.

 

As for possible Offensive buffs to out-weigh those of the Chaos line... I've though of a few I've already said but the rework of Cry of Frustration is probably the one I'd like to see done the most since its apart of the core mechanic and as of now 1stack of anything is weak sauce ( esp. confusion :~[) The Prestige could be bumped a bit in PvE since we have very few sources of burning. Adding another stack wouldn't hurt. Torment on Jaunt would be nice since it's a Mobility skill so thematically it'd be cool to punish mobility with mobility. Crystal shards should have always applied bleeding IMO. Anything outside of clones that applies bleeds reliably is golden. They could buff the bonus Condi damage from compounding power to 100+ Condi damage per illusion. And, lastly, and perhaps most drastically, they could buff the condi duration skill fact on the minor trait in Illusions to allow for more Clone condition duration overall.. (Not too strong but not too weak cause that one could get scary)

 

Also, some things I thought of outside of the Illusions line is found in the Duelist line. 'Sharper Images' is a really good trait with tons of interactions with many different builds. But they could add a secondary effect where it applies 3 stacks of bleeding per illusion shattered(those with loads of precision wouldn't be the only ones benefiting from this trait anymore!!). Since illusions are 'sharper' there should be a really cool interaction with the shatter effect, IMHO. Lastly their needs to be some sort of rework for the Master tier Duelist line. Blinding Dissipation is Ok, but Blind spam was really only good when there weren't healers around. That and its mostly just good for blind Stomp and situational survivability. Either this or the Mirror on dodge ( I mean its a manipulation skill it should be in the Chaos line like all others but maybe they didn't finish the switch over from a long time ago idk) trait need a little bit of rework cause both are really underwhelming for Master tier traits concerning condition builds.

 

With the advent of more Condi builds and for the sake of build diversity alone, I think these changes would help a lot. Esp. with the new Elite spec being focused entirely around a selfish DPSER giving the Mirage the tools to truly excel would be awesome sauce.

 

Thanks again for your comments and feedback! Keep things constructive and add anything you've thought of yourselves. I know this community is a creative bunch! Never know, your idea just might come to fruition!

[narcx.3570]

> @"dontlook.1823" said:

> I like their whole philosophy of wanting to reward players who expend more skills but after the most recent balance changes the Mirage Condi Clone build is completely counter intuitive to this setup. I've stated that its similar to the Sword/Sword Phat build but sadly its exactly like it.

 

I can certainly see why people who only play Mesmer would definitely want a more active dps play style... But I think if anet did "kill" the current clone build in favor of an active skill spamathon of clone summon/shattering, it would leave Mirages in a very bad place within the raid community. DPS can be delivered in varying degrees of active casting and passive damage generation. Currently Mirages have the highest dps in the passive category, which lets them shine in fights like Matthias, Desmina, and Cairn. But if they became an active-cast dps class, they'd always just be replaced by Weavers, who do more damage, or by Holos/DHs/Renegades who bring a ton of cc and group utility without having to change their builds or clip their dps.

 

It's things like the clone build that sets Mirages apart and gives them a unique playstyle (even if it is probably more boring than spamming a billion skills would be) that lets them an opportunity to be a top pick. Like I said, if you ONLY play Mesmer, I get it... But with how easy they made it to level alts and obtain/share best in slot gear, most serious raiders bring a different class to every fight (if they're dps), and I think Mirage has a pretty good spot being the best in the three encounters that they are and respectable in most of the others. Plus, it just feels different to play, which is nice.

[joeherbert.6431]

I disagree, I don't use the Chaos line at all and I play condi PVP all the time. I second your kudos to the development team!

I do have a video for how I run my build as a condi mesmer in pvp, if you are curious about it:

[MrAptronym.2846]

I'm just returning to the game from the pre-expansion days (So take everything I say with a healthy dose of salt.) and I've been thinking about this a lot. I like Mes a lot, and instantly fell in love with Mirage as it plays up my favorite parts of the class, but it does feel a bit odd that it remains focused on keeping clones around.

 

I tried out a shatter based build immediately, but it doesn't seem worth it. In particular, Axe feels like a weapon designed around keeping illusions around. The ability to transfer illusions and the high potential of infinite horizons (A very fun trait) definitely give it that identity. I don't think that is a bad thing, I've enjoyed the class so far though I have primarily been in open world and story content. I do think it'd be neat to see another, shatter based, option for condition mirages. Scepter as a weapon of choice and dune cloak as a grandmaster seem like good candidates, but they don't directly interact much, and scepter seems sub-par. (Can't say much about Dune Cloak, but I think it is well positioned as a shatter build option) Additionally, Cry of Frustration is just terrible in PvE and something should probably be done to it if a shatter based build is going to take off.

 

I am sad I left before the confusion changes and returned right as they were revoked. Heck, when I last played *all* condition builds were pretty much treated as useless in PvE.

[trooper.2650]

> @"joeherbert.6431" said:

> I disagree, I don't use the Chaos line at all and I play condi PVP all the time. I second your kudos to the development team!

> I do have a video for how I run my build as a condi mesmer in pvp, if you are curious about it:

>

 

I think they have been talking primarily from a pve Point of view, possibly wvw. For pvp I think illusions is still superior to chaos

 

[dontlook.1823]

> @"joeherbert.6431" said:

> I disagree, I don't use the Chaos line at all and I play condi PVP all the time. I second your kudos to the development team!

> I do have a video for how I run my build as a condi mesmer in pvp, if you are curious about it:

>

 

I was referring to the Meta Mirage Clone build for PvE raids and fractals. Great video though.

[dontlook.1823]

> @"Arlette.9684" said:

> Chaos is a defensive line, the only reason why it’s still the chery pick over illusions is because several counter intuitive traits in Illusions, lack of an actually good GM trait. And yes the boon duration as @"Pyroatheist.9031" was explaining it to me yday makes up for an average of 20-30% condi duraion in PvE/Raid which in turn allows you to roll for less duration on your gear and invest in more power for example.

> It’s not that there’s anything wrong with Chaos, it’s that Illusions needs a tune up on several traits.

 

> @"Refia Montes.3205" said:

> > @"Angel de Lyssa.4716" said:

> >

> > **Master Fencer Gain**

> > _Condition damage based on your accuracy._

> > Gain Condition Damage Based on a Percentage of Precision: 10%

> >

>

>

> Um no. Dueling is all about Vigor generation, critical hits (improving it whether through critical damage/ferocity or adding bleeding to it.) and Dueling (blinds, dodges). That includes Ferocity and Sword improvement. Fencer's Finnese is perfect as is, and fits the traitline. And to add, Fencing is part of the Mesmer theme as well.

 

The Condi duration you gain from Chaotic Persistence is a flat amount and it is not directly added to your Condi duration. Rather its added to your base. So while this trait might seem really strong at first glance its really not. The main component that makes Chaos strong is the +Condi damage off of your toughness and the added damage from Chaos Storm on heal.

[Pyroatheist.9031]

> @"dontlook.1823" said:

> > @"Arlette.9684" said:

> > Chaos is a defensive line, the only reason why it’s still the chery pick over illusions is because several counter intuitive traits in Illusions, lack of an actually good GM trait. And yes the boon duration as @"Pyroatheist.9031" was explaining it to me yday makes up for an average of 20-30% condi duraion in PvE/Raid which in turn allows you to roll for less duration on your gear and invest in more power for example.

> > It’s not that there’s anything wrong with Chaos, it’s that Illusions needs a tune up on several traits.

>

> > @"Refia Montes.3205" said:

> > > @"Angel de Lyssa.4716" said:

> > >

> > > **Master Fencer Gain**

> > > _Condition damage based on your accuracy._

> > > Gain Condition Damage Based on a Percentage of Precision: 10%

> > >

> >

> >

> > Um no. Dueling is all about Vigor generation, critical hits (improving it whether through critical damage/ferocity or adding bleeding to it.) and Dueling (blinds, dodges). That includes Ferocity and Sword improvement. Fencer's Finnese is perfect as is, and fits the traitline. And to add, Fencing is part of the Mesmer theme as well.

>

> The Condi duration you gain from Chaotic Persistence is a flat amount and it is not directly added to your Condi duration. Rather its added to your base. So while this trait might seem really strong at first glance its really not. The main component that makes Chaos strong is the +Condi damage off of your toughness and the added damage from Chaos Storm on heal.

 

I don't know what you're talking about, but last time I checked chaotic persistence added simple condition and boon duration as stated in the trait, it just doesn't reflect it in the hero panel.

[dontlook.1823]

> @"Pyroatheist.9031" said:

> > @"dontlook.1823" said:

> > > @"Arlette.9684" said:

> > > Chaos is a defensive line, the only reason why it’s still the chery pick over illusions is because several counter intuitive traits in Illusions, lack of an actually good GM trait. And yes the boon duration as @"Pyroatheist.9031" was explaining it to me yday makes up for an average of 20-30% condi duraion in PvE/Raid which in turn allows you to roll for less duration on your gear and invest in more power for example.

> > > It’s not that there’s anything wrong with Chaos, it’s that Illusions needs a tune up on several traits.

> >

> > > @"Refia Montes.3205" said:

> > > > @"Angel de Lyssa.4716" said:

> > > >

> > > > **Master Fencer Gain**

> > > > _Condition damage based on your accuracy._

> > > > Gain Condition Damage Based on a Percentage of Precision: 10%

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Um no. Dueling is all about Vigor generation, critical hits (improving it whether through critical damage/ferocity or adding bleeding to it.) and Dueling (blinds, dodges). That includes Ferocity and Sword improvement. Fencer's Finnese is perfect as is, and fits the traitline. And to add, Fencing is part of the Mesmer theme as well.

> >

> > The Condi duration you gain from Chaotic Persistence is a flat amount and it is not directly added to your Condi duration. Rather its added to your base. So while this trait might seem really strong at first glance its really not. The main component that makes Chaos strong is the +Condi damage off of your toughness and the added damage from Chaos Storm on heal.

>

> I don't know what you're talking about, but last time I checked chaotic persistence added simple condition and boon duration as stated in the trait, it just doesn't reflect it in the hero panel.

 

I'm pretty sure that's not the case. There is a reddit article about it. I'll have to dig it up.

[dontlook.1823]

This one is from Wiki: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Condition_Duration#Modifiers_unaffected_by_Condition_Duration_cap>

@"Pyroatheist.9031"

 

@"Arlette.9684"

 

@"Refia Montes.3205"

I guess it is the case. Bud said it wasn't the other day. Ah well.