What can we change to make leveling to 80 non-boring and not make new players leave?

[MagicBoi.4160]

Hi Anet and everyone, I made this thread because two out of two of the friends I've invited to play had quit the game before even reaching level 80 (where the "real" game truly starts), and when I asked them why these were their answers:

* "It's too grindy and boring... like why do I have to collect apples just to level up" -- I think he was talking about a heart quest.

* "Idk man leveling feels a bit too repetitive and the story is just meh"

* "I don't want to grind that long just to get there" -- when I told him it would take at least 80 - 140 hrs to reach lvl 80 or the endgame for a _new player_ (w/o a booster of course).

 

Although they're f2p players, we're talking about players here who actually planned to buy the game only if it kept them interested and not made a false impression of just another MMORPG grindfest. This is truly disappointing because I am sure other new players/potential consumers have left the game for the same reason, reasons which are not true at level 80. But still, I can't blame them because I do agree that leveling 1 to 80 was indeed the most boring phase of the game (especially if you're a PvE player you're stuck with repetitive heart and meta quests that are hardly interesting), and I think that's a great way to lose potential customers.

 

So what do you think Anet needs to change to prevent this happening any further? My suggestion would simply be to either tremendously increase the exp reward for killing monsters or add more interesting ways to earn exp (leveling through PvP, dungeons (which has lfg issues for new players), and random tyrian trains were pretty fun). I have other suggestions but I think they're a little too big of a change for Anet to actually implement.

 

Before anyone point this out, yes, they were aware of the lvl 80 boosters, but as real gamers do there's no fun at skipping the most progressive phase of your character. Plus, I would not recommend for any new players to use there lvl 80 boosters to begin with, as I've seen enough new players get so lost and overwhelmed after using them to the point that it makes them (or at least temporarily) leave the game.

 

 

 

**EDIT:**

By the way, when I mentioned 80-140 hours, I am talking about an average new player that doesn't mainly focus in leveling such as myself, of course you can get less than 80 hours but that's only if you already have a lot of prior knowledge of the game and you don't do a lot of other things that doesn't give high exp (such as exploring the map, just hanging out with someone, experimenting with builds or some stuffs, occasional trolling, etc.).

 

And also, that's not just my personal random estimation too, that's why I was confident with these numbers. When I was new to the game at around level 20, (just 3 months ago) I joined a small and young guild dominated by new players (If you're interested in joining the name is "xXEclipseMoonXx"), turns out that all new players leveled nearly just as fast as I did and a few number of them even took longer. I swear some people are exaggerating how fast leveling is in this game, some variables weren't being considered.

If you happen to find a time to ask a _new player_ (preferably f2p one's) who just literally got to level 80 w/o buying boosters from Gem store, ask him to type "/age" in the chat and I'll bet you that there's a good probability that his number of hours playing would be pretty close to my estimations.

 

Anyway, I am somewhat glad that not too many people agree with me, it's good that their are actually a good number of people who doesn't find leveling 1 to 80 as tedious as I thought it was.

[Ayrilana.1396]

If it takes someone 80 hours or more then I seriously question what they’re doing.

 

Leveling is part of the progression that you see in most RPG’s. If people have an issue with it, perhaps they’re playing the wrong genre?

 

There are many ways to level such as map completion, killing neutral mobs, killing regular mobs, crafting, dungeons, tomes/scrolls, events, and so on.

 

You complain about leveling and then state that boosters shouldn’t be an option as it skips the fun of the progression phase. Actually you also stated that leveling to 80 was the most boring phase of the game near the beginning of your post and then state that it’s “no fun” to skip it near the end of your post. Some contradictions there.

[Cobrakon.3108]

They added a LVL 80 boost with every version of the game except the f2p version. Id say that cuts right to the chase. Also, with multiple ways to get tomes, it really softens the blow of leveling.

[Tails.9372]

Leveling to 80 isn't the problem, leveling up your WvW rank to 2000 on the other hand...

[artemis.6781]

I'm still confused about that grinding comment. And as Ayrilana said, it shouldn't be taking you that long to level.

[Haleydawn.3764]

“when I told him it would take at least 80 - 140 hrs to reach lvl 80 or the endgame for a new player”

This is why your friends left. You’re bigging up the “end game” too much and skipping over the beauty of Core Tyria. The hidden stuff in maps, the dialogue the music. You just trivialised it.

It definitely does not take 80+hr’s for a new player to reach level 80 either. I think my first character (5+yrs ago when I was new) got to level 80 in less than 50hrs. Before boosters, Tomes or writs.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

> @"MagicBoi.4160" said:

> Before anyone point this out, yes, they were aware of the lvl 80 boosters, but as real gamers do there's no fun at skipping the most progressive phase of your character.

 

Isn't what you're suggesting reducing the time spent progressing the character? Frankly, people who find leveling in this game to be too drawn out should try other MMO's. I've yet to play one where leveling is less time intensive than GW2.

 

That said, I can understand the desire to "skip" some of the leveling experience. So, what _could_ ANet do? They could revert core mob difficulty and challenge level to where it was in Beta Weekend One. While this might in fact increase the time spent leveling, it would definitely remove the tedium.

 

[Bloodstealer.5978]

Curious.. once you reach level 80, what do you think end up doing... yep repeating content over and over, grinding out materials for gear, running new content when it comes through.. We get new content every now and then but that is quickly exhausted and your predominately left with more things to grind out, whilst still trying to grind out previous things.

 

I would say 1-80 is all about finding things you enjoy and things you don't.

 

I like story, I used to like WvW, but can't stand PvP. I like creating new toons rerunning story, building them differently and then get ready to grind stuff out once they hit 80.

 

The is the thing though.. what one player calls grind others call fun. There are lots of things we could say are a grind.. xp can be considered a grind, masteries can be grindy, map completion can be, gearing, crafting... the list goes on and on. Hitting Level 80 doesn't really change that, in fact it could open up a whole new book of grind.

Sounds to me like your friends just weren't really into the game, that's fine not everyone will be. Every MMO I have ever played at some point becomes grindy and that is when I have to consider.. do I enjoy the game or do I move on.. beauty of GW2 is you can and then come back and find your not a million miles out of sync and having to chase an ever expanding gear train - yet.

[Arioch.6507]

Often times the 'grind' of leveling is softened w/ company. It doesn't feel so bad when accompanied by others. Take some time, roll a new character and level with them. Get them in contact with a guild. If you need one that helps newbies and lowbies I am sure there are people that can point you in the right direction. Hit the dynamic events that are always popping up.....do the World Bosses that show up in the low zones....

[Zaraki.5784]

Back in the old days, I did those things to level up and I enjoyed them. There's nothing to be changed, if someone doesn't like it just change game.

[kurfu.5623]

I never found leveling to 80 to be boring the first couple of times around. Maybe you've simply played that content too much, and are attempting to virtue signal your current thought onto new players?

[TwilightSoul.9048]

I think that's not an issue with the game, like every game, this game just isn't for everyone. Some people just have a different taste or different playstyle that just isn't fun in this specific game.

3 of my friends have left the game quite fast too, 2 of them during the beta before ever reaching Lv80 (They tried leveling up by just finishing the PS asap) and the third guy joined later and quit after he had spend real money on killstreak boosters and stuff so that he could grind himself to lv80 by killing the same mobs for god knows how many hours straight. And then he left because "the game doesn't offer anything to do" - he has literally only explored 4% of the map and has never touched any sort of endgame content. He then went back to some anime mmorpg.

 

I've been playing since the beta weekends and although I've had taken a few breaks (1 1/2 year or so) I had always enjoyed the game for what it is.

[MagicBoi.4160]

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> If it takes someone 80 hours or more then I seriously question what they’re doing.

 

If you try to make a new character, without using mounts, gliders, or anything you already have, and start with nothing and pretend you don't have all the prior knowledge for leveling, you'd realize leveling wasn't as fast as people claimed it was. Probably because those who were saying that it was, were the players who already know everything and have about nearly everything to level fast to begin with. An example of this is you suggesting that you can level up through crafting, as if a new player has a lot of money to spare to actually level up through that. Oh did you mention dungeon? Goodluck with that in LFG. Killling regular mobs???? are you aware how much exp they give? Tomes of knowledge, are you aware how limited you can get those in PvE? This game is mainly focused for PvE gamers, it's only natural that not everyone's gonna be farming Tomes at PvP. Or if you're one of those veteran players who leveled through 80 back in the old days of gw2, then please consider how much might have already changed.

 

> Leveling is part of the progression that you see in most RPG’s. If people have an issue with it, perhaps they’re playing the wrong genre?

 

I strongly agree, and that's why I think leveling shouldn't be this boring.

 

> You complain about leveling and then state that boosters shouldn’t be an option as it skips the fun of the progression phase

 

That's one of the reasons, you still can't ignore the fact that it overwhelms a number of new players and actually make them leave the game. Leveling 1 to 80 is obviously the game's tutorial phase, it's just not ideal for a new player to skip it. The boosters was obviously meant for old players who already knew what they were doing so they don't have to unnecessarily grind their new characters all the way to 80 again after the expansion.

 

 

[artemis.6781]

Even way back when the game came out, all of my leveling was quick. I never did dungeons and I simply did map completion. So yes, you can level without "grinding" and yes I have a free account also and leveling is still quite easy, especially when compared to other games.

[Ayrilana.1396]

> @"MagicBoi.4160" said:

> > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > If it takes someone 80 hours or more then I seriously question what they’re doing.

>

> If you try to make a new character, without using mounts, gliders, or anything you already have, and start with nothing and pretend you don't have all the prior knowledge for leveling, you'd realize leveling wasn't as fast as people claimed it was. Probably because those who were saying that it was, were the players who already know everything and have about nearly everything to level fast to begin with. An example of this is you suggesting that you can level up through crafting, as if a new player has a lot of money to spare to actually level up through that. Oh did you mention dungeon? Goodluck with that in LFG. Killling regular mobs???? are you aware how much exp they give? Tomes of knowledge, are you aware how limited you can get those in PvE? This game is mainly focused for PvE gamers, it's only natural that not everyone's gonna be farming Tomes at PvP. Or if you're one of those veteran players who leveled through 80 back in the old days of gw2, then please consider how much might have already changed.

 

I did all my leveling for 10+ characters before HoT. You get XP from practically everything. You don't take 80+ hours unless you have a lot of downtime doing things that don't award XP which is pretty much being AFK. Everything that I mentioned are still ways that players can level their characters with some being faster or more practical than others. Nothing has changed to leveling since the game launched other than when they adjusted the XP progression many years ago but I think that only impacted the first 20 levels causing players to level quicker.

 

> I strongly agree, and that's why I think leveling shouldn't be this boring.

 

Players have many options in regards to how to level their characters. If they find the leveling process boring, which is in just about every RPG, this is probably not the genre for them.

 

> That's one of the reasons, you still can't ignore the fact that it overwhelms a number of new players and actually make them leave the game. Leveling 1 to 80 is obviously the game's tutorial phase, it's just not ideal for a new player to skip it. The boosters was obviously meant for old players who already knew what they were doing so they don't have to unnecessarily grind their new characters all the way to 80 again after the expansion.

 

Many things overwhelm players besides leveling. I was overwhelmed by a lot of things when I first started ESO several weeks ago and now I am not.

 

[Obtena.7952]

Someone needs more experience with MMO's ... GW2 is leveling FRIENDLY as any game can get.

[sephiroth.4217]

Get them the expansions, get that free level 80 booster and hop strait into the action rather than grinding.

 

If you chose not too level strait to 80 for what ever reason then decide the game is too grindy to bother reaching 80, then sadly it sounds like they were never actually into this game.

[dolcolax.1268]

personally, when the game launched, it probably took me 3 months to get my first toon to lvl 80. i pretty much did 100% of each map though and i wasnt doing a lot of events. i know some people reached the cap before me so its really just perspective. anyway, when i got to my 3rd toon and beyond i went to eotm and leveling was much faster. :D

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

> @"Cobrakon.3108" said:

> They added a LVL 80 boost with every version of the game except the f2p version. Id say that cuts right to the chase. Also, with multiple ways to get tomes, it really softens the blow of leveling.

 

Pretty much this. That said, leveling in this game is boring? I found it amazing fun mapping the world and doing the heart quests. But to each their own, I suppose.

[mindcircus.1506]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> Someone needs more experience with MMO's ... GW2 is leveling FRIENDLY as any game can get.

 

This is the truth of it. GW2's levelling is by far the smoothest and easiest of any MMO I have ever played. I have not met anyone who feels this game is a grind. In many ways the levelling up process becomes trivialized.

 

The OP's friends just may be ill suited to the MMORPG genre

[Bloodstealer.5978]

> @"MagicBoi.4160" said:

> > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > If it takes someone 80 hours or more then I seriously question what they’re doing.

>

> If you try to make a new character, without using mounts, gliders, or anything you already have, and start with nothing and pretend you don't have all the prior knowledge for leveling, you'd realize leveling wasn't as fast as people claimed it was. Probably because those who were saying that it was, were the players who already know everything and have about nearly everything to level fast to begin with. An example of this is you suggesting that you can level up through crafting, as if a new player has a lot of money to spare to actually level up through that. Oh did you mention dungeon? Goodluck with that in LFG. Killling regular mobs???? are you aware how much exp they give? Tomes of knowledge, are you aware how limited you can get those in PvE? This game is mainly focused for PvE gamers, it's only natural that not everyone's gonna be farming Tomes at PvP. Or if you're one of those veteran players who leveled through 80 back in the old days of gw2, then please consider how much might have already changed.

>

> > Leveling is part of the progression that you see in most RPG’s. If people have an issue with it, perhaps they’re playing the wrong genre?

>

> I strongly agree, and that's why I think leveling shouldn't be this boring.

>

> > You complain about leveling and then state that boosters shouldn’t be an option as it skips the fun of the progression phase

>

> That's one of the reasons, you still can't ignore the fact that it overwhelms a number of new players and actually make them leave the game. Leveling 1 to 80 is obviously the game's tutorial phase, it's just not ideal for a new player to skip it. The boosters was obviously meant for old players who already knew what they were doing so they don't have to unnecessarily grind their new characters all the way to 80 again after the expansion.

>

>

 

You seem to think none of us have levelled toons without the use of gliders, mounts etc.. of course we have many, many times over.. sure since Hot levelling has gotten a little faster and made some things more trivial with mounts.. but that comes down to a choice things.

80+ hrs to level a single toon.. sorry but even back when gear was max exotic , no mounts or gliders.. that is still way to many hours that it need take.

Dungeons are not something you have to do in fact pretty much none of my toons touched dungeons until like lvl 60+ if at all.

Tomes of knowledge in PvE are easy to obtain.. jump into WvW and run the rewards tracks, do dailys then you will get them more readily.. convert the scrolls at the vendor by the forge and you will soon have enough scrolls to push you onwards.. when you get to lvl 80 spend a few spirit shards for more tomes if you really don't want to level.

 

But that said what you find boring others find fun so it basically comes down to the fact that maybe GW2 just isn't the game for you or your friends and that's ok.. it doesn't suit everyone.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"mindcircus.1506" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > Someone needs more experience with MMO's ... GW2 is leveling FRIENDLY as any game can get.

>

> This is the truth of it. GW2's levelling is by far the smoothest and easiest of any MMO I have ever played. I have not met anyone who feels this game is a grind. In many ways the levelling up process becomes trivialized.

>

> The OP's friends just may be ill suited to the MMORPG genre

 

I don't know their experience but I can say that most people from FPS or MOBA games can't even stomach leveling of the easiest sort.

[ReaverKane.7598]

Well, clearly the problem isn't the game, but your friend's attitude.

GW2's 1-80 progression is extremely fast by most MMORPG's standards. And honestly, if they find this too grindy, then MMORPG's aren't their thing.

 

[Crab Fear.1624]

Well the game can be boring or it can be interesting depending on what one wants from a game.

 

New players should use this time wisely and do things like:

* Complete the world map (legendary)

* Complete the story and try to enjoy the lore

* Discover the harder world events like Triple Trouble

* Discover what guilds are just spamming their recruit message and which are actually worth joining (through experience of playing with them)

* Learn the mechanics of their class through the simple tasks, and the time it takes

* Take a detour after a bit into pvp or wvw and learn about those while completing a reward track, and earn a few tomes or gift of battle (legendary)

 

By the time a player has done all of this they will be level 80, have a good grasp of the game's mechanics, and have a few of the legendary components . If they have bought the game, maybe now make use of that booster and discover about the other classes before committing.

 

Sure anyone can go to .metabattle, and grab builds, but players could also use this time to figure out what skills they find to be synergetic as well as traits. They can have a full understanding of their build.

 

I am not really sure I would want a clueless super booster in end-game content with me if success was on the line.

 

[Dabrixmgp.4758]

Before mounts I hated leveling and comverted gems to gold and used crafting to level my only 2 level 80s. Since I came back last month I now have 5 more level 80s. Mounts make leveling 100x easier. PoF comes with a free 80 boost so it then get your Raptor 10 minutes later. Now make your level 1 and enjoy leveling since traveling is now easier.