What can we change to make leveling to 80 non-boring and not make new players leave?

[Aryan Arlande.6184]

OP : Pay someone else for leveling your char, perhaps your little brother or a friend.

 

Look, you bought this game, but there should be no obligation to play it.

 

Many gamers buy many things to avoid too much gaming - understandable. All they want is all the endcontent the game has to offer -but immediately.

[Bish.8627]

Leveling my first char to 80 was one of my favourite gaming experiences. All the new maps, lore, mobs. Everything was so unique. My second, I leveled using the old Champ train and 3rd/4th WvW and EotM. The only boring level ups I have had is sat in DR using boosters and clicking the level up rewards.

[OriOri.8724]

I think that adding in some way to tell players that heart quests are NOT required, but that doing them can help you gain experience to level up, would be a start. I know that I as a new player, thought that heart quests were like actual quests from other games for a while, and that I should be completing every one I came across. And it did come close to making me quit. Alongside that, reducing the tediousness of some heart quests would be amazing. Everyone remembers those heart quests where everything you do adds like 1% to the completion bar, and you feel like you are working on it forever.

 

 

[Aryan Arlande.6184]

> @"witcher.3197" said:

> Tl;DR Combat should get harder

>

 

I agree, somewhat, but there should be a difference, a scaling.

 

I think, some big creatures in PVE, like Ettins, should always be able oneshotting a player, if the player doesn't pay proper attention.

 

They should really be as dangerous as they look like.

 

 

[Neural.1824]

> @"Granrey.8920" said:

> I have presented this concern numerous times.

>

> When a new player shows up to try the game. He can't be the only person in the starter areas....... If you are running the story without seeing a single soul between levels 1 to 80. you are likely to quit.

>

I completely disagree with the assertion that starter areas are lacking population. Over 6 years I have done world completion over a dozen times, most recently this past month, not to mention the occasional key run, and the starter areas are never void. I in no way consider it an inconvenience or irritating, but I constantly have to be mindful in those zones when doing renown hearts and random events that I'm not killing mobs before a newbie has a chance to get a hit in (and no, I do not think the downscaling needs to be changed, more players simply need to let the newbies shoot first).

The zones where people are being "lost" (if it's even possible considering there's a intant-80 token given out with practically every code sale) are going to be places like Iron Marches, Fireheart Rise, Bloodtide Coast, Dredgehaunt, etc. Not because they are bad zones, but it's where the game really starts to set in as being grindy, boring, underpopulated, etc. They start to wonder when they're ever going to get gliding, or mounts. When something exciting will happen.

Part of that is the issue of the timing/placement of world boss events. I have never agreed with Shadow Behemoth and the Wurm being in the starter zones. They need big events, but they should be more like Maw. Even the beginner level 1 instance throws brand new players into the "big boss" battle scenario before they've even gotten their footing. It nullifies the desire to move forward to see a big boss fight, because you've already "been there done that". They get to Dredgehaunt Cliffs, and well, good luck fi they are expecting something big and ominous with the Commisar. He's just a mole that is slightly taller than the rest of them.

Unfortunately, all that is set in stone, and cannot be changed, but it is a problem. When you fire off all the expensive fire works at the beginning of the show, people are going to start leaving when you spend the next hour doing ground spinners, no matter how much veterans praise the finale.

 

First: get rid of the instant 80 boosts, or limit their use until a person has leveled to 80 on their own (and do it in a way that lets them access the free shared inventory slot while waiting, so they can potentially buy a copper-fed to put there.

Second: make leveling mean something. Whether it be by progressing to some sort of gimped gliding or mount use that they can unlock at level 40 to 50, or collecting leveling tokens that allow them to choose a substantial reward (meaning: not a free bag of 3 transmutation charges, or a single black lion key) when they finally hit 80 for the first time. Heck, make it a reward track and teach them how that system works.

 

This is the primary problem with the shift in the gaming industry to where it's all about "end game" content. Everyone is conditioned to think that they aren't having fun unless they are doing "end game content".

 

 

 

[Khisanth.2948]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"mindcircus.1506" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > Someone needs more experience with MMO's ... GW2 is leveling FRIENDLY as any game can get.

> >

> > This is the truth of it. GW2's levelling is by far the smoothest and easiest of any MMO I have ever played. I have not met anyone who feels this game is a grind. In many ways the levelling up process becomes trivialized.

> >

> > The OP's friends just may be ill suited to the MMORPG genre

>

> I don't know their experience but I can say that most people from FPS or MOBA games can't even stomach leveling of the easiest sort.

 

Then RPGs just aren't for them. Also obligatory "damn kids these days, no patience at all".

[Abakk.9176]

I was a new player some months back.

 

Im still here.

 

 

[EpicName.4523]

I am a new player, started last month and have certain observations. Let me just say I've been into WoW for a long a time and this game, being the juggernaut it is, should be compared to GW 2, given it is the most successful of its kind.

 

The leveling process in GW 2 itself is the best out of any MMORPG. There is just no comparison. Exploration, resource gathering, multiple ways to finish a heart - a well designed system! However, if you want to find why leveling is boring, you must look deeper.

 

Lore and world design: In WoW every area is different and has a unique theme. Darkshore and its Old Gods, Westfall with its bandits, Duskwood with its necromancer. The world design of vanilla WoW was bad from a gameplay perspective, but beyond brilliant went it came to exploration. The rich lore of Azeroth made it incredibly fun to visit places like Azshara and the ruined night elven temples full of naga, The Plaguelands devastated by The Lich King and his undead army or the lush jungles of Stranglethorn populated by savage trolls. What is more, every region has a story, some source of trouble that must be uncovered and eventually dealt with. For a nerd like me, this was incredible experience. I cared about this world. I loved it.

 

In comparison, what do we have in GW 2? Let's take the natural human leveling progression paths. You start in Queensdale which is a beautiful, green, pastoral land where you have to fight mostly centaurs and bandits. Then you move to the next area (forgot its name) which is ...also a beautiful, green, pastoral land where you fight mostly centaurs and bandits. As is the next...

 

Get it? Half of the original Tyria is a generic land where you fight the same enemies over and over again. The personal story helps overcome that, but it is not enough. The truth is that I, personally, did not really care much about Tyria's lore, heroes and world as a whole. Some characters are nice like Rytlock and Taimi, but nothing compares to someone like Arthas, Illidan, Uther, Thrall, Sylvanas and so on.

 

Quests: While the vast majority of quests in WoW are boring and generic, there were true masterpieces which took you accross the map to uncover secrets. Good examples are the Legend of Stalvan or The Missing Diplomat. In GW 2, beyond the personal story there is no such thing. Everything is generic hearts. There is no story within the story. There are no places or characters that make you ask "What happens next?" or "What is that character's fate?"

 

World PvP: In GW 2 there is no real sense of danger. Everything is nice and orderly, you feel safe and sound all the time. The mobs die easily and beyond a few random events, nothing ever changes. In WoW every moment someone can sneak up on you and instagib you while you are busy or unprepared(PvP server). I loved that in Stranglethorn Valley. It was my favorite place and no, I wasn't ganking. But it made me stay on my toes if the next enemy player will attack me or just pass me by. Even when I died it felt fun to chase the killer and get my revenge...or not. There is a reason why WoW has two warring factions and that competition made the game way better.

 

WoW has a huge advantage over any of its competitors - a large fan base full of nostalgia, incredible music and probably the most gifted artists in the industry. GW 2 is innovative, has many great design decisions, but ultimately fails to give you a truly involving world or sense of competition with a rival faction (Alliance/Horde). If you don't care about the world, how can you enjoy leveling in it?

[WolfSparkSmack.2649]

Whoever thinks gw2 leveling is grindy and boring go check talisman online, forsaken world, aion, etc im sure there are many many more where exp req scaling is all the time, and in some cases you will need days to get just a single lv at end game. So no, gw2 lvl is not grindy and boring trust me, considering the tomes is one of the easiest leveling i've ever seen :)

[blambidy.3216]

> @"Donari.5237" said:

> > @"blambidy.3216" said:

> > Another thing is. If they live close to u. Log on to your account and let them play something that’s crazy. Like the Lake Doric and farming leather. That stuff is crazy. Or take him to kill mordremoth in dragons stand.

>

> Interesting point. And while it's not quite the same as playing it themselves, even if the friend isn't close by there's an easy way to "stream" the experience: Discord PM chat includes screen sharing now. So you can voice with him/her while s/he views your action directly (and hopefully doesn't get motion sick from you being the controller of the camera movement).

>

>

 

I did not know you could do that. That is a good point too. So then you wouldn’t really have to and they could watch things you could do after you finish leveling.

 

[zengara.8301]

It looks like a mediocre PlayStation 3 game, 5000000000 things that makes it confusing and grindy af, as if it was a korean game (daily, monthly, weekly, bosses, achievements, etc etc....) Nobody who actually wants to play with you, if you do find a guild who will play with you......you got 1 shot, and then your opportunity is gone and you wont play any dungeons ever again. Eveeeeeeeeen if you make it through the first 80 lvls and can live with the loneliness and the 1000hours of dialogues where you literally dont move (which was ok 5 years ago......but everyone hates it now), you suddenly find out ur worthless because you dont have expansion, and who is going to let a core.....any class into a group? Let us say it is easy for a new player to get ascended gear (I think it isnt, the person needs tons of laurels and gold, that is obtained by either grinding or other tasks that requires those ascended gears to begin with) Then you still need a ton of gold to actually reach anywhere near where people are now in fractals........100 lvls later of fractals if ur consistent.......years after years after years of wvw if your consistent.............raids....kek u is a funny dude.......I guess killing world bosses and stuff is still fine. Ohh you want to play PvP? ohh damn looks like you lost 10000 time to your own class who got 1-2 expansion more than you.

 

Personally love the game because I started around 5 years ago, but you gotta be realistic, any newcomer to the game might like it, but it is far from an easy game actually to enter or enjoy, specially now when everyone basically look like a power ranger and got maxed everything that would take years to catch up for normal players

[Umut.5471]

It isn't boring, when I was a new player it was really intriguing to explore the story and the fantastic world.

GW2 has a top-notch detailed lore and a good story. Maps are a piece of art, you feel like you are living in a fantasy.

RPG games don't suit to everyone well, not forcing them to play a MMORPG is the best option. Some people even enjoy

single-player RPG games like The Witcher series and Skyrim, they spend thousands of hours just leveling their characters and exploring the story in an offline game.

Dunno, if someone doesn't like the RPG/Story aspect of MMORPGs, then they ll get bored quickly. It's better for them to play MOBAs if they want instant action.

You get 2 instant level 80 scrolls with expansion purchases tho, so it isn't really a problem as well. But they would skip half the content of the game with those.

[Irokou.3215]

> @"EpicName.4523" said:

> I am a new player, started last month and have certain observations. Let me just say I've been into WoW for a long a time and this game, being the juggernaut it is, should be compared to GW 2, given it is the most successful of its kind.

>

> The leveling process in GW 2 itself is the best out of any MMORPG. There is just no comparison. Exploration, resource gathering, multiple ways to finish a heart - a well designed system! However, if you want to find why leveling is boring, you must look deeper.

>

> Lore and world design: In WoW every area is different and has a unique theme. Darkshore and it Old Gods, Westfall with its bandits, Duskwood with its necromancer. The world design of vanilla WoW was bad from a gameplay perspective, but beyond brilliant went it came to exploration. The rich lore of Azeroth made it incredibly fun to visit places like Azshara and the ruined night elven temples full of naga, The Plaguelands devastated by The Lich King and his undead army or the lush jungles of Stranglethorn populated by savage trolls. What is more, every region has a story, some source of trouble that must be uncovered and eventually dealt with. For a nerd like me, this was incredible experience. I cared about this world. I loved it.

>

> In comparison, what do we have in GW 2? Let's take the natural human leveling progression paths. You start in Queensdale which is a beautiful, green, pastoral land where you have to fight mostly centaurs and bandits. Then you move to the next area (forgot its name) which is ...also a beautiful, green, pastoral land where you fight mostly centaurs and bandits. As is the next...

>

> Get it? Half of the original Tyria is a generic land where you fight the same enemies over and over again. The personal story helps overcome that, but it is not enough. The truth is that I, personally, did not really care much about Tyria's lore, heroes and world as a whole. Some characters are nice like Rytlock and Taimi, but nothing compares to someone like Arthas, Illidan, Uther, Thrall, Sylvanas and so on.

>

> Quests: While the vast majority of quests in WoW are boring and generic, there were true masterpieces which took you accross the map to uncover secrets. Good examples are the Legend of Stalvan or the Missing Diplomat. In GW 2, beyond the personal story there is no such thing. Everything is generic hearts. There is no story within the story. There are no places or characters that make you ask "What happens next?" or "What is that character's fate?"

>

> World PvP: In GW 2 there is no real sens of danger. Everything is nice and orderly, you feel safe and sound all the time. The mobs die easily and beyond a few random events, nothing ever changes. In WoW every moment someone can sneak up on you and instagib you while you are busy or unprepared(PvP server). I loved that in Stranglethorn Valley. It was my favorite place and no, I wasn't ganking. But it made me stay on my toes if the next enemy player will attack me or just pass me by. Even when I died it felt fun to chase the killer and get my revenge...or not. There is a reason why WoW has two warring factions and that competition made the game way better.

>

> WoW has a huge advantage over any of its competitors - a large fan base full of nostalgia, incredible music and probably the most gifted artists in the industry. GW 2 is innovative, has many great design decisions, but ultimately fails to give you a truly involving world or sense of competition with a rival faction (Alliance/Horde). If you don't care about the world, how can you enjoy leveling in it?

 

I feel this hits the nail on the head. Immersive qualities are crucial in regards to placing value in both the world and exploring it. If lore or circumstances feel shallow, unimportant, or removed from tension, it gives the impression that nothing you do ultimately matters. You have to create the proper "world flow" so to speak to engage a player even if they are partaking in menial tasks. Blizzard are masters at building lore and characters within an mmo space. GW2 has the innovation and modern touches, but leaves the RPG and competitive elements feeling severely underdeveloped as a result of making the game as "accessible" as possible. Despite the amazing community and fluid combat, I have a very difficult time connecting to the world; things begin to feel like mindless busy work in short order even if you are leveling alts up quickly.

[OriOri.8724]

> @"EpicName.4523" said:

> I am a new player, started last month and have certain observations. Let me just say I've been into WoW for a long a time and this game, being the juggernaut it is, should be compared to GW 2, given it is the most successful of its kind.

>

> The leveling process in GW 2 itself is the best out of any MMORPG. There is just no comparison. Exploration, resource gathering, multiple ways to finish a heart - a well designed system! However, if you want to find why leveling is boring, you must look deeper.

>

> Lore and world design: In WoW every area is different and has a unique theme. Darkshore and it Old Gods, Westfall with its bandits, Duskwood with its necromancer. The world design of vanilla WoW was bad from a gameplay perspective, but beyond brilliant went it came to exploration. The rich lore of Azeroth made it incredibly fun to visit places like Azshara and the ruined night elven temples full of naga, The Plaguelands devastated by The Lich King and his undead army or the lush jungles of Stranglethorn populated by savage trolls. What is more, every region has a story, some source of trouble that must be uncovered and eventually dealt with. For a nerd like me, this was incredible experience. I cared about this world. I loved it.

>

> In comparison, what do we have in GW 2? Let's take the natural human leveling progression paths. You start in Queensdale which is a beautiful, green, pastoral land where you have to fight mostly centaurs and bandits. Then you move to the next area (forgot its name) which is ...also a beautiful, green, pastoral land where you fight mostly centaurs and bandits. As is the next...

>

> Get it? Half of the original Tyria is a generic land where you fight the same enemies over and over again. The personal story helps overcome that, but it is not enough. The truth is that I, personally, did not really care much about Tyria's lore, heroes and world as a whole. Some characters are nice like Rytlock and Taimi, but nothing compares to someone like Arthas, Illidan, Uther, Thrall, Sylvanas and so on.

>

> Quests: While the vast majority of quests in WoW are boring and generic, there were true masterpieces which took you accross the map to uncover secrets. Good examples are the Legend of Stalvan or the Missing Diplomat. In GW 2, beyond the personal story there is no such thing. Everything is generic hearts. There is no story within the story. There are no places or characters that make you ask "What happens next?" or "What is that character's fate?"

>

> World PvP: In GW 2 there is no real sens of danger. Everything is nice and orderly, you feel safe and sound all the time. The mobs die easily and beyond a few random events, nothing ever changes. In WoW every moment someone can sneak up on you and instagib you while you are busy or unprepared(PvP server). I loved that in Stranglethorn Valley. It was my favorite place and no, I wasn't ganking. But it made me stay on my toes if the next enemy player will attack me or just pass me by. Even when I died it felt fun to chase the killer and get my revenge...or not. There is a reason why WoW has two warring factions and that competition made the game way better.

>

> WoW has a huge advantage over any of its competitors - a large fan base full of nostalgia, incredible music and probably the most gifted artists in the industry. GW 2 is innovative, has many great design decisions, but ultimately fails to give you a truly involving world or sense of competition with a rival faction (Alliance/Horde). If you don't care about the world, how can you enjoy leveling in it?

 

In regards to maps in GW2 feeling the same, you need to look at map regions. The shiverpeaks all look more or less the same, with the same enemies,but they are entirely different from the Ascalon maps, and both those regions are entirely different from the Kryta maps, and from the Grove maps (forgot what the sylvari/asura area is called). Each region is wholely unique.

 

But that's just core GW2. Once you get to level 80 and start exploring endgame maps its even better. Orr is an absolutely amazing set of maps (still my favorites for design), and again completely new. The HoT maps are all extremely unique maps. PoF maps have no comparison to core tyria maps at all. Each map in LWS3 was 100% unique from other maps. Even the one placed in the shiverpeaks had an entirely new feel to it, alongside new enemies that hadn't been seen before in the game. The diversity is definitely here, even if you find the lore lacking (though I think a few players would be quite opposed to you saying that)

[STIHL.2489]

It's odd.. because. leveling at least in GW2 is pretty much just learning the game and the class you are playing.

 

It's like people want to bypass the enjoyment of progress and levels and playing game, to rush to a point where all they do is a repetitive dead-end grind.

 

When did that become fun ?

[Dreamy Lu.3865]

@ OP, I believe the answer to your post is given by yourself straight into your own post: Apparently, MMORPG - more specifically GW2 - is not the type of game for your friends, who should maybe search for a game suiting them better.

You say, for example, "just another MMORPG grindfest" and "I do agree that leveling 1 to 80 was indeed the most boring phase of the game" and other things that type. What I understand out of this is: MMORPG is not for your friends, or at least not that type of MMORPG. That's very much Ok to feel like that about GW2, but it remains a matter of taste and personal opinion.

 

My experience is very different. I have also taken several friends and members of my family into GW2. More than just two. They were impressed by the game upon starting with it, enjoyed leveling up and have become GW2 addicted, creating regularly new toons just for the fun of levelling up and doing storylines. Only one was - like your friends - disliking the leveling up that he fand boring, but since he likes very much the rest of the game, he invested into level 80 boosters, until he had farmed enough XP scrolls and tomes of knowledge to no more need boosters.

 

So, you see, what you say is true for your friends, and certainly for many other players, but there are probably as many players who disagree and think more like my friends. Even more, the amount of GW2 players is so enormous, that there are probably many other groups of friends and many guilds with again different experiences and opinions.

 

As for what Anet should do: That's Anet business. We can make suggestions, based on our view of the situation, but at the end, only Anet have concrete figures of what is status, rotation of players, how much money they earn/lose and how is the overall "health" of the game. So, they are nearly the only ones who can define a strategy, apply it and see how it goes with it, modifying orientation over time based on results.

 

My personal view: All in all, to play GW2 - or not - is a matter of taste. Even for those who chose to play GW2, for each feature/activity of the game content, there are as many who likes it as is, as there are who dislike it and want changes to it. I believe that Anet is monitoring all that, modifying the different features as they think is the best, and that's how a game remains alive, evolving over time. :)

[joneirikb.7506]

> @"witcher.3197" said:

> I tried to get many people into GW2 in the first few years but none of them made it past lvl 30. They loved it in the first hour, then quickly got bored out of their minds and eventually gave up.

>

> Why? Because it's ridiculously boring. You're never in danger unless you pull the map. Mobs barely use anything telegraphed big hits either that would warrant the use of dodge, the pillar of GW2 combat.

>

> Leveling's just uninteresting and repetitive. Unless you get sucked into the world and plays for the joy of exploration (which some do) you won't get hooked even if you'd enjoy the game by the time you're 80.

>

> Tl;DR Combat should get harder and more rewarding as you gain levels, instead of braindead boring 79 levels. You learn kitten all about combat by the time you're 80, barely more than by just boosting.

>

 

+1 this, completely agreed.

 

Current project: Leveling a thief without equipping any armor, 50 atm.

 

@ EpicName.4523

 

Great post! +1

 

(Ironically, ANet was originally founded by old Blizard developers that started working on WoW.)

[Vayne.8563]

If you want you can get a level about every ten minutes or so. Which means that someone here is doing something seriously wrong. If you tell your friends ten minutes a level it sounds a lot better than what you're telling them and it's more accurate as well. And you don't have to do a single heart to do it. It's all just killing.

[Oldirtbeard.9834]

> @"Vayne.8563" said:

> If you want you can get a level about every ten minutes or so. Which means that someone here is doing something seriously wrong. If you tell your friends ten minutes a level it sounds a lot better than what you're telling them and it's more accurate as well. And you don't have to do a single heart to do it. It's all just killing.

 

You're not wrong, but if you're not doing map completion and the story you're missing part of what makes the game great, the real heroes journey is exploration, experiencing all the little stories ( you taught me that regarding HoT where most of the story was told through the events and the ambient NPCs.

 

[Echoherb.6528]

I think MMO's aren't for these people then if they feel like leveling is too grindy and boring. Guild Wars 2 is one of the least grindy MMO's currently on the market when it comes to leveling, in fact when they reach level 80 most people will continue to do what they were already doing while leveling (events, map exploration, etc.) for unlocking masteries, so if these players don't like the leveling experience then clearly it's not the right game for them.. Also I've played most of the variations of the personal story at this point, and they are all pretty good. Certainly not terrible by any means.

[mauried.5608]

The simplest fix to the levelling problem is get rid of levels.

Most people find levelling boring and are only interested in the "end game ", whatever that is.

Having levels means that the game has to have seperate distinct zones which are designed to suit that particular level.

Means the devs have to spend a lot of time designing the world where most of the players dont even want to be , and only want the content that is the "end game" content.

So why not have a game that is totally "end game", ie no levels , no separate map zones, just a large world with no defined borders in which you will find anything and everything.

A starter area would be provided for new game players where the mob density would be low initially, but as you started to explore the world you would encounter random monsters who could be meek and mild or ultra horrible, and you wont know which, because monsters wont have level numbers on them either.

The only way to get better in the game is thru the gear you acquire and by learning better skills, both of which require exploring the world.

In GW2 now most of the players are L80 and only a tiny part of the world is actually designed for L80s .

All the rest of the world is wasted.

The only way forward for GW2 now is to simply release more expansions which keep people at L80 and just add more maps , which means the "end game " world just gets bigger and bigger anyway.

 

[Mea.5491]

We can't do anything, some people like it, some don't. I'm sitting on 5 stacks of Tomes but I still level new characters with Hearts, events and exploring because I enjoy it. -shrugs- I love world completion so much!

 

Edit: _"The simplest fix to the levelling problem is get rid of levels. Most people find levelling boring"_ - This is NOT true. The original Secret World had no levels and **MANY** people complained about it. They added levels in Secret World Legends because of this reason!

[Thelgar.7214]

Undo the changes made in the "New Player Experience" - ungut the 1-15 zones, frontload the skills and abilities again, etc. Leveling used to be enjoyable when the zones were interesting and you were using all your skills and abilities earlier.

[Rizaya.6940]

> @"EpicName.4523" said:

> I am a new player, started last month and have certain observations. Let me just say I've been into WoW for a long a time and this game, being the juggernaut it is, should be compared to GW 2, given it is the most successful of its kind.

>

> The leveling process in GW 2 itself is the best out of any MMORPG. There is just no comparison. Exploration, resource gathering, multiple ways to finish a heart - a well designed system! However, if you want to find why leveling is boring, you must look deeper.

>

> Lore and world design: In WoW every area is different and has a unique theme. Darkshore and its Old Gods, Westfall with its bandits, Duskwood with its necromancer. The world design of vanilla WoW was bad from a gameplay perspective, but beyond brilliant went it came to exploration. The rich lore of Azeroth made it incredibly fun to visit places like Azshara and the ruined night elven temples full of naga, The Plaguelands devastated by The Lich King and his undead army or the lush jungles of Stranglethorn populated by savage trolls. What is more, every region has a story, some source of trouble that must be uncovered and eventually dealt with. For a nerd like me, this was incredible experience. I cared about this world. I loved it.

>

> In comparison, what do we have in GW 2? Let's take the natural human leveling progression paths. You start in Queensdale which is a beautiful, green, pastoral land where you have to fight mostly centaurs and bandits. Then you move to the next area (forgot its name) which is ...also a beautiful, green, pastoral land where you fight mostly centaurs and bandits. As is the next...

>

> Get it? Half of the original Tyria is a generic land where you fight the same enemies over and over again. The personal story helps overcome that, but it is not enough. The truth is that I, personally, did not really care much about Tyria's lore, heroes and world as a whole. Some characters are nice like Rytlock and Taimi, but nothing compares to someone like Arthas, Illidan, Uther, Thrall, Sylvanas and so on.

>

> Quests: While the vast majority of quests in WoW are boring and generic, there were true masterpieces which took you accross the map to uncover secrets. Good examples are the Legend of Stalvan or The Missing Diplomat. In GW 2, beyond the personal story there is no such thing. Everything is generic hearts. There is no story within the story. There are no places or characters that make you ask "What happens next?" or "What is that character's fate?"

>

> World PvP: In GW 2 there is no real sense of danger. Everything is nice and orderly, you feel safe and sound all the time. The mobs die easily and beyond a few random events, nothing ever changes. In WoW every moment someone can sneak up on you and instagib you while you are busy or unprepared(PvP server). I loved that in Stranglethorn Valley. It was my favorite place and no, I wasn't ganking. But it made me stay on my toes if the next enemy player will attack me or just pass me by. Even when I died it felt fun to chase the killer and get my revenge...or not. There is a reason why WoW has two warring factions and that competition made the game way better.

>

> WoW has a huge advantage over any of its competitors - a large fan base full of nostalgia, incredible music and probably the most gifted artists in the industry. GW 2 is innovative, has many great design decisions, but ultimately fails to give you a truly involving world or sense of competition with a rival faction (Alliance/Horde). If you don't care about the world, how can you enjoy leveling in it?

 

I can't stress enough how much I agree with this. I can't get any of my friends into GW2. Even my boyfriend quit after playing for like 20 hours because it is so silly and repetitive. Starting maps are very very important in a game and GW 2 is horrible at this. Sure, there are jumping puzzles and many vistas are nice but how are you going to convince someone that (for example) human maps 1-45 have any meaning? Same biome, same enemies. The story is sooo shallow. Events are a brilliant idea but most of the times people just zerg them. And most of the times I don't even know why this npc is delivering the supplies and what's his story. I just join the event halfway through and protect his dolyak and get some exp and that's all. In comparison to later maps, the early ones lack depth. In Ascalon it's obvious there are ghosts and maybe I would be interested as of why but the fact that the game keeps hitting me in the face with random ghost events with no exposition pisses me off because I'm forced to eventually read the reasons on wikia rather than look for a npc to tell me. And the worst offender is the personal story.... the cutscenes when I'm talking to someone are cringe-worthy ( I really prefer the dialogue bubbles we have now), and everything (with a few exceptions) is so childish. I was so glad when Magister Sieran was gone because I thought Priory was fascinating and I wanted a mentor, not a kid who drags me in an adventure only she considers interesting. Anet, if you're reading this : you have many adult players and they are the ones supporting your game. I'm not asking for extremely meaningful story but I want to at least be able to take the game seriously. The expansions are great but you are turning many new players off with your style over substance. Actually, it's not even style! The best map design I can think about pre lvl 50 is Divinity's Reach and that's saying something. So basically the early maps hold no secrets, the biome diversity sucks and so does most of your Zhaitan story.

[Vayne.8563]

> @"Oldirtbeard.9834" said:

> > @"Vayne.8563" said:

> > If you want you can get a level about every ten minutes or so. Which means that someone here is doing something seriously wrong. If you tell your friends ten minutes a level it sounds a lot better than what you're telling them and it's more accurate as well. And you don't have to do a single heart to do it. It's all just killing.

>

> You're not wrong, but if you're not doing map completion and the story you're missing part of what makes the game great, the real heroes journey is exploration, experiencing all the little stories ( you taught me that regarding HoT where most of the story was told through the events and the ambient NPCs.

>

 

This is the problem right here. You're assuming that what makes the game great is the same for all people. There are people who don't care about the story and never will. You're not one of those people. Those people care a lot less about how long it takes to level because they're less interested in "getting to end game" and more interested in the experience. The people who come from games like WoW want to get into the dungeon/raiding scene as fast as possible. They're not here looking for an experience which you can get in a single player game. They want to get done with the "boring stuff" so they can get to the "real game"

 

That has never been this game, but people have had years to play other MMOs and believe that the end game is the only game. I don't have to level my characters quickly because I enjoy the experience and if you're one of those people who enjoy the experience then this thread is meaningless.

 

But this guy's friend got bored because he didn't know there was a faster way to do it and he DIDN'T like it MMOs are not one size fits all. It doesn't matter that some guys in my guild have missed the entire story. They're not immersion player they're mechanics players. There aren't enough mechanics while leveling to entertain those people. The solution, for those people, is to level as fast as they can, so they can get to a place where mechanics make some sort of difference in your game play.

 

You, on the other hand, are more of an immersion player. It's why you've posted a lot of the stuff you've posted in the past. I'm in the same boat as you. I care about immersion in the world far more than I care about the specific mechanics of any boss fight. By recognizing that other types of players exist and exist in numbers, it's easier to understand why certain questions are asked in the first place, and why changes have been made to the game.