Thread for Scourge benchmark tests (PvE)

[Dadnir.5038]

> @Aevis.4632 said:

> Question about gear stats. I see everyone mention vipers is the best right now but what is wrong with trailblazer? Wouldn't trailblazers be better for the tough/vit making us tankier while still have high condi dmg/duration? Also the vit gives us more lf to use more ahade skills. I don't see scourge making much use of the power and precision stats or maybe idk much. Could be idk much.

 

If possible you absolutely don't wan't toughness in PvE and you are forgetting that viper also give you some nice power damage and precision to proc bleeds on crit. All in all, you never want to be "tankier" in PvE, you want all the damage possible because you won't be taken as a "tank" and if your damages lag behind, you won't be taken as a dps either.

 

[Aevis.4632]

> @Dadnir.5038 said:

> > @Aevis.4632 said:

> > Question about gear stats. I see everyone mention vipers is the best right now but what is wrong with trailblazer? Wouldn't trailblazers be better for the tough/vit making us tankier while still have high condi dmg/duration? Also the vit gives us more lf to use more ahade skills. I don't see scourge making much use of the power and precision stats or maybe idk much. Could be idk much.

>

> If possible you absolutely don't wan't toughness in PvE and you are forgetting that viper also give you some nice power damage and precision to proc bleeds on crit. All in all, you never want to be "tankier" in PvE, you want all the damage possible because you won't be taken as a "tank" and if your damages lag behind, you won't be taken as a dps either.

>

 

But what use does the scourge have for power stat? All of its skills are condi based as far as i see

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

Scourge would probably prefer Vitality to Power, but Desert Shroud scales quite well with Power. In a personal story instance, I was seeing crits of 3k per tick in full Vipers gear, with less than 6 vulnerability and Might. Considering it ticks 7 times, that's pretty good direct damage.

 

It's also worth mentioning that Tuning Crystals scale off of Power.

[Zefiris.8297]

Considering Signet of Undeath.> @Aevis.4632 said:

> > @Dadnir.5038 said:

> > > @Aevis.4632 said:

> > > Question about gear stats. I see everyone mention vipers is the best right now but what is wrong with trailblazer? Wouldn't trailblazers be better for the tough/vit making us tankier while still have high condi dmg/duration? Also the vit gives us more lf to use more ahade skills. I don't see scourge making much use of the power and precision stats or maybe idk much. Could be idk much.

> >

> > If possible you absolutely don't wan't toughness in PvE and you are forgetting that viper also give you some nice power damage and precision to proc bleeds on crit. All in all, you never want to be "tankier" in PvE, you want all the damage possible because you won't be taken as a "tank" and if your damages lag behind, you won't be taken as a dps either.

> >

>

> But what use does the scourge have for power stat? All of its skills are condi based as far as i see

 

Literally every ability you do also has a power component.

[Aktium.9506]

 

I'm still sceptic about Dagger.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

> @Aktium.9506 said:

>

>

> I'm still sceptic about Dagger.

 

Your rotation when it comes to the F skills needs some work. I saw multiple times that you couldn't use Desert Shroud when it came off cooldown because you had just spent the life force on another skill instead.

 

Given our F5 is by far our highest damage skill...

[Aktium.9506]

> @"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said:

> Your rotation when it comes to the F skills needs some work. I saw multiple times that you couldn't use Desert Shroud when it came off cooldown because you had just spent the life force on another skill instead.

>

> Given our F5 is by far our highest damage skill...

 

Just as an fyi, I'm not Farbstoff.

[Sigmoid.7082]

I need to get my hands on some different gear before I can test the build I theoried out

[Shiki.7148]

Well, 35k would at least put us alongside condi dps zerker (against small targets)... Now if we had any other boon than freaking Might... Although, depending on how many and what condition a boss pumps out, the condi to boon conversion might actually be enough in some cases.

[Kam.4092]

This is the first video I've seen with Torment Sigils. Do they actually work well with Demonic Lore? I've been using Bursting and Geomancy.

 

Is CPC what we use now instead of Epidemic on single target fights?

[chunx.9521]

Hey, just posted my updated DPS rotation. Final figure was 36.7k. There's a couple mistakes with cancelling auto attacks in there, but it shows the basic idea. Food, sigils, and runes are still just best guesses as to what is the optimal setup.

 

[Maxzero.4032]

> @chunx.9521 said:

> Hey, just posted my updated DPS rotation. Final figure was 36.7k. There's a couple mistakes with cancelling auto attacks in there, but it shows the basic idea. Food, sigils, and runes are still just best guesses as to what is the optimal setup.

>

>

 

Real nice work.

 

It seems the rotation is fairly straightforward too so the gap between dummy DPS and actual DPS should be smaller then it often is.

 

I saw a condi Soulbeast doing 40k but that was with Sylvan racial and having Ranger buffs being handled off character. I see you have Epidemic on your bar. If that was not needed what would you replace that with and how much off a boost would it give you?

[Kam.4092]

> @chunx.9521 said:

> Hey, just posted my updated DPS rotation. Final figure was 36.7k. There's a couple mistakes with cancelling auto attacks in there, but it shows the basic idea. Food, sigils, and runes are still just best guesses as to what is the optimal setup.

>

>

 

Did you try Torment or Bursting Sigils over Earth by chance?

 

[chunx.9521]

> @Maxzero.4032 said:

> It seems the rotation is fairly straightforward too so the gap between dummy DPS and actual DPS should be smaller then it often is.

 

I feel like the rotation was a bit of a pain actually, there were a lot of things to manage and keep track of and a lot of button presses that don't really follow a pattern other than knowing which are the high priority skills to use off cooldown when possible. The challenge is that that list is really long, because literally all your weapon skills do more damage than autoattacking.

 

The other thing is staggering your punishments so that you will always have a charge of Sadistic Searing to use when Manifest Sand Shade comes off cooldown. Sometimes you may have to precast the punishment while Sand Shade is still off cooldown (like 10 sec left), sometimes you'll have to skip a usage of Sand Flare, sometimes you might have to delay Trail of Anguish a bit, sometimes you'll literally have .5 sec to put down the Sand Shade or else Sadistic Searing will expire and you'll lose a lot of damage.

 

On the bright side, there are no hidden or offscreen cooldowns to manage, and you do not rely on fields or minions or having enough health in Death Shroud of damage (as you can see the life force is pretty self-sustaining, every once in a while you may have to skip a Desert Shroud or delay it but it's not a big deal).

 

> @Maxzero.4032 said:

> I saw a condi Soulbeast doing 40k but that was with Sylvan racial and having Ranger buffs being handled off character. I see you have Epidemic on your bar. If that was not needed what would you replace that with and how much off a boost would it give you?

 

I'm not sure what the next best skill is. I'd think it'd be Corrosive Poison Cloud or Shadow Fiend. CPC clearly puts on the greatest condition damage, but that self-weakness will actually hurt your DPS if you can't cleanse it fast enough, and you do not have the extra life force to use your F2 cleanse on it without messing up your usages of Desert Shroud.

 

Shadow Fiend is like a flat 350 dps (more if it gets might), and its haunt skill also grants LF for so would help.

 

> @Kam.4092 said:

> Did you try Torment or Bursting Sigils over Earth by chance?

>

I didn't. From the past, I think it's been tested that earth consistently does more damage than bursting for single target. Torment is an interesting idea, but I feel like enough skills already trigger Demonic lore so that a torment sigil would not be needed. But I haven't tested so I can't say for sure.

[Kam.4092]

> @chunx.9521 said:

> > @Maxzero.4032 said:

> > It seems the rotation is fairly straightforward too so the gap between dummy DPS and actual DPS should be smaller then it often is.

>

> I feel like the rotation was a bit of a pain actually, there were a lot of things to manage and keep track of and a lot of button presses that don't really follow a pattern other than knowing which are the high priority skills to use off cooldown when possible. The challenge is that that list is really long, because literally all your weapon skills do more damage than autoattacking.

>

> The other thing is staggering your punishments so that you will always have a charge of Sadistic Searing to use when Manifest Sand Shade comes off cooldown. Sometimes you may have to precast the punishment while Sand Shade is still off cooldown (like 10 sec left), sometimes you'll have to skip a usage of Sand Flare, sometimes you might have to delay Trail of Anguish a bit, sometimes you'll literally have .5 sec to put down the Sand Shade or else Sadistic Searing will expire and you'll lose a lot of damage.

>

> On the bright side, there are no hidden or offscreen cooldowns to manage, and you do not rely on fields or minions or having enough health in Death Shroud of damage (as you can see the life force is pretty self-sustaining, every once in a while you may have to skip a Desert Shroud or delay it but it's not a big deal).

>

> > @Maxzero.4032 said:

> > I saw a condi Soulbeast doing 40k but that was with Sylvan racial and having Ranger buffs being handled off character. I see you have Epidemic on your bar. If that was not needed what would you replace that with and how much off a boost would it give you?

>

> I'm not sure what the next best skill is. I'd think it'd be Corrosive Poison Cloud, or Blood Fiend plus Dessicate (drop Sand Flare). CPC clearly puts on the greatest condition damage, but that self-weakness will actually hurt your DPS if you can't cleanse it fast enough, and you do not have the extra life force to use your F2 cleanse on it without messing up your usages of Desert Shroud.

>

> Dropping Sand Flare for Blood Fiend will increase your DPS and you can also now use your third utility slot for another punishment to trigger Sadistic Searing. If I were to guess, I'd say the latter is more effective.

>

> > @Kam.4092 said:

> > Did you try Torment or Bursting Sigils over Earth by chance?

> >

> I didn't. From the past, I think it's been tested that earth consistently does more damage than bursting for single target. Torment is an interesting idea, but I feel like enough skills already trigger Demonic lore so that a torment sigil would not be needed. But I haven't tested so I can't say for sure.

 

I'm using Bursting based off of the qT benchmarks done a while back. They were choosing Bursting over Earth. I've just not changed Sigils yet.

[chunx.9521]

Yea, qT's rational for bursting sigil was that it makes your epidemic do more damage, and that all instances where a necro is needed in raids it would always have epidemic as well.

[HardRider.2980]

Whats trailblazer armour like in places like pve- fractals? any improvement over vipers?

[Kam.4092]

> @chunx.9521 said:

> Yea, qT's rational for bursting sigil was that it makes your epidemic do more damage, and that all instances where a necro is needed in raids it would always have epidemic as well.

 

I mainly do Fractals where Epidemic shines. I guess Bursting is fine for me to keep using then?

[chunx.9521]

> @HardRider.2980 said:

> Whats trailblazer armour like in places like pve- fractals? any improvement over vipers?

 

Trailblazer's would make you do less damage. It seems like it would never be worth it to sacrifice offensive stats for the extra vitality, even if it allows you to use more shade skills.

 

> @Kam.4092 said:

> I mainly do Fractals where Epidemic shines. I guess Bursting is fine for me to keep using then?

 

If that's the case, then it would make sense, yea. I just value the single target damage more because in most instances, single target fights are the most difficult and there are very few situations where burst cleave in the form of 6% stronger epidemics makes the difference.

[Kam.4092]

> @chunx.9521 said:

> > @HardRider.2980 said:

> > Whats trailblazer armour like in places like pve- fractals? any improvement over vipers?

>

> Trailblazer's would make you do less damage. It seems like it would never be worth it to sacrifice offensive stats for the extra vitality, even if it allows you to use more shade skills.

>

> > @Kam.4092 said:

> > I mainly do Fractals where Epidemic shines. I guess Bursting is fine for me to keep using then?

>

> If that's the case, then it would make sense, yea. I just value the single target damage more because in most instances, single target fights are the most difficult and there are very few situations where burst cleave in the form of 6% stronger epidemics makes the difference.

 

Yeah I understand. I'd use Earth Sigils for single target for Raids over Bursting Sigils. Maybe Torment Sigils would work in Fractals though. Some are saying Torment Sigils work well with Demonic Lore. Fractals are filled with AoE, and Torment Sigils are AoE Torment.

[Wintermute.5408]

> @chunx.9521 said:

>

> I'm not sure what the next best skill is. I'd think it'd be Corrosive Poison Cloud, or Blood Fiend plus Dessicate (drop Sand Flare). CPC clearly puts on the greatest condition damage, but that self-weakness will actually hurt your DPS if you can't cleanse it fast enough, and you do not have the extra life force to use your F2 cleanse on it without messing up your usages of Desert Shroud.

 

if you pair CPC with BiP, you can send weakness off with Dagger4. If memory serves, it worked like CPC>BiP>during BiP cast self-cripple is gone, leaving you with 3 condis>Dagger4.

 

 

[Sublimatio.6981]

one of my first tries. these are realistic buffs unlike the video posted above that made 36.7k

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iH6IEzBs2PI&feature=youtu.be

[chunx.9521]

> @Sublimatio.6981 said:

> one of my first tries. these are realistic buffs unlike the video posted above that made 36.7k

 

Oops yea you're right, I included all the boons, but as far as I'm aware all the defensive boons would have no impact on my DPS, and all the profession skills are your basic, realistic scenario ones.

 

 

[Vlad Morbius.1759]

> @Sublimatio.6981 said:

> one of my first tries. these are realistic buffs unlike the video posted above that made 36.7k

>

> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iH6IEzBs2PI&feature=youtu.be

 

Thanks, far more realistic, but again it's based on static targets, good work tho.

[Aesa.4819]

Worth noting is also that the boss is completely stationary, lowering the Torment damage a bit. Even if you tank a boss at one spot it usually moves around a little bit at least, which is not the case here.