The REAL Core problem of Renegade and why dps buffs will not help ...

[Arkantos.7460]

**## The REAL Problem of Renegade lies in the mechanic of ALL 5 skills!** and the worse shortbow of curse.

I dont talk about dps or what they do on dmg or buffs or heal ......

 

 

# ALL OTHER CLASSES having the option of 6 different skills for each elite spec ...

# Renegade only has 5 !

# ALL OTHER CLASSES can combine theese 6 different skills with their

# EXISTING 27 ... twenty seven!!!.... other different skills wich also have different mechanics!

 

 

Renegade only has 1 mechanic for all his skills ... that is = _3/4 casttime > waiting for summoning > waiting that this summoning do his job!_

 

So all in one you need 1-2 sec to get an effect of your skills .... EXTREMELY LONG in pvp times.

And the worst of all things is the Counterpart>

enemie destroys summonings ( in 1-2 sec if more then 1 attacks him or in wvw instant)

enemie interrupt summonings (also nearly instant)

enemies decide to interrupt you while casting ...

enemies wait outer range while summonings doing their job ...ez win for enemies!

 

So what does Renegade have at the end of "casting" a skill... # NOTHING

Never use Renegade legend because of monotonous mechanic that can easily be outplayed; the FACT. in tpvp

Unless it gets completely reworked with some useful mechanics.

 

 

All other legends have different mechanics in each different skill but Renegade only has 1 mechanic for Everything ... extremely worse!

In addition comes the shortbow with long casttimes while also waiting 2 seconds or hope that 1 of your skills hit even a moving or "walking" target... that all wihtout evade or blockframes

 

 

[Milan.9035]

This looks 100% accurate.

 

Really renegade needs a complete redesign. I really hope someone got into a lot of trouble for this espec. But as far as getting that design forget about it.

 

Look at engi, in hot they got a scrapper, a really crappy espec that was useless in raid bit good in pvp. And they never changed it. Now rev is in that position. I bet they are working on the next rev spec first this time and i bet its goona be cool. But i bet i wont be around to buy it. Pof as mich as its praised bt critics i find it worse than hot. Has nothing for me as a rev that plays pvp most of the time.

[messiah.1908]

renegade is pve trait line not pvp or wvw

[Buran.3796]

> @"Arkantos.7460" said:

 

> Renegade only has 1 mechanic for all his skills ... that is = _3/4 casttime > waiting for summoning > waiting that this summoning do his job!_

 

>

 

Despite you're right the reason Renegade is bad at PvP is due was NEVER designed to be a thing in PvP. Is just a small buff for PvE's condi Rev raiders.

 

The class skills are summons, and no class works in PvP relying on pets. You can argue that at some time in PvP Turret Engineer, Spirit Ranger, Minionmancer or even Spirit Weapons Guard were a thing (usually for a very briefly period), but no one could argue that Kalla would be ever in that place. The F skills are trash and the short bow is so bad that is not good even to complete the Weapon Master achievement at PvE.

 

So far I'm happy with the situation because since the beginning was evident that the gameplay of the Renegade was using the same condition core Revenant with mace + axe + Mallyx 95% of the time, so after two weeks at the PoF release I ditched the Renegade to a mule character and returned to power Herald with my main. What surprises me is the the stubbornness of people beating the dead horse: amongst my 12 characters I have 2 of each heavy and I never use Spirit Weapons in my two Guardians, neither I have any interest in ANet to buff those skills to make them usable. If I wanted to play a pet class there's better choices in the game than the Guardian to do that role. I don't uderstand people expecting things from the Renegade... is so 2017. Either forget the spec and play the other available builds or move to a class with satisfying builds or a background of realiably meta builds along the time (Guards, Mesmers...). For sure I can't change my main for my life, but that doesn't mean that must spent the next two years worried about a dead spec. I'm more worried about the decay of the overall diversity and capabilities of core Rev and Herald, which keeps hitting us patch after patch.

[Arkantos.7460]

> @"Buran.3796" said:

> > @"Arkantos.7460" said:

>

> > Renegade only has 1 mechanic for all his skills ... that is = _3/4 casttime > waiting for summoning > waiting that this summoning do his job!_

>

> >

>

> Despite you're right the reason Renegade is bad at PvP is due was NEVER designed to be a thing in PvP. Is just a small buff for PvE's condi Rev raiders.

But all other specs from other classes can be used in pvp ....anet NEVER stated Renegade for only be useable in pve

 

>

> The class skills are summons, and no class works in PvP relying on pets. You can argue that at some time in PvP Turret Engineer, Spirit Ranger, Minionmancer or even Spirit Weapons Guard were a thing (usually for a very briefly period), but no one could argue that Kalla would be ever in that place. The F skills are trash and the short bow is so bad that is not good even to complete the Weapon Master achievement at PvE.

 

Revenant class skills are not summons only , its the Legendswap it should be useable like ALL OTHER LEGENDS .... every other Legend has different Skills with different mechanics but Renegade, your right, is all about summonings... and that is trash

>

> So far I'm happy with the situation because since the beginning was evident that the gameplay of the Renegade was using the same condition core Revenant with mace + axe + Mallyx 95% of the time, so after two weeks at the PoF release I ditched the Renegade to a mule character and returned to power Herald with my main. What surprises me is the the stubbornness of people beating the dead horse: amongst my 12 characters I have 2 of each heavy and I never use Spirit Weapons in my two Guardians, neither I have any interest in ANet to buff those skills to make them usable. If I wanted to play a pet class there's better choices in the game than the Guardian to do that role. I don't uderstand people expecting things from the Renegade... is so 2017. Either forget the spec and play the other available builds or move to a class with satisfying builds or a background of realiably meta builds along the time (Guards, Mesmers...). For sure I can't change my main for my life, but that doesn't mean that must spent the next two years worried about a dead spec. I'm more worried about the decay of the overall diversity and capabilities of core Rev and Herald, which keeps hitting us patch after patch.

Im fine with the traitline but I dont use Kalla as Legend, I will do some tpvp here and there but NEVER spend money for the next spec

 

 

[Axl.8924]

Nerfing everyone to having 5 skills that cannot combine isn't the solution, how about buffing revenants to have 6 skills as well that combine?

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

Long story short - renegade is an awesome traitline with sweet F2-F4 skills, but crappy weapon & skillset outside of pve.

[Buran.3796]

> @"Arkantos.7460" said:

> > @"Buran.3796" said:

 

> > Despite you're right the reason Renegade is bad at PvP is due was NEVER designed to be a thing in PvP. Is just a small buff for PvE's condi Rev raiders.

> But all other specs from other classes can be used in pvp ....anet NEVER stated Renegade for only be useable in pve

 

>

 

Deadeye is way worse than Daredevil (or even core Thief) in PvP, and no one would use that spec in a serious tournament (like ESL or the Pro Tournaments from the past), so NO all other specs from PoF are competitive. Weaver is also relatively weak, albeit in the hands of a player like Cellofrag seems to works wonders. Also, statments from ANet about the classes, specs and lore seems vage and meaningless: "The legendary charr revolutionary, Kalla Scorchrazor, lends the power of her warband to revenants who summon her from the Mists. Renegades fight with a shortbow, firing conjured arrows through Mist portals to blindside their enemies". From the quote I would say that the Renegade is good for roleplaying. The statements are what in Warhammer lore is called "the fluff", can mean nothing; what matters is "the crunch": what the real numbers let you to do. If you design a spec with a weapon, skills, F keys and traits bad for PvP and WvW what you get is a spec that can't work in those environments. A 2 handed weapon with no defensive or mobility traits is a bad idea for PvP/WvW. Pets are a bad idea for PvP/WvW. You can point how clueless about PvP/WvW were the Renegade design team just looking at where they initially placed the only breakstun of Kalla: in the heal skill. That trully says it all. The people theorycrafting and brainstorming about how to turn Renegade into something in PvP are like trying to bio-engineering a chihuahua or a pomeranian into a racing greyhound: is not gonna work!

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Axl.8924" said:

> Nerfing everyone to having 5 skills that cannot combine isn't the solution, how about buffing revenants to have 6 skills as well that combine?

 

Bingo ... giving people **some** options to choose skills WITHIN each legend is about as compromising a position as I think Revenants are going to get. Anet will preserve the flavour of the class with legends and how they work; this you can be assured. Concept preservation is strong with these devs.