The KMX Leged.9348 Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 They did this to NERF scourges because it was hard to counter play a 0 cast time spell, but Mesmers still get a 0 cast time shatter that is even MORE op....sounds fair (sarcasm).... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lahmia.2193 Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > First of all, when someone talk about counterplay, it's always related to figth against other player, so PvP/WvW. > > The tells were needed for more than just the fact that it was instant cast with short cool down. The tells were needed because on top of that, each scourge skill packed a lot of power. The basis is that each shroud skill that you use will automatically trigger _manifest sand shroud_, which potentially trigger every single shroud skill #1 effects and on crit effects. Add to this the fact that it could hit up to 10 target and you have imbalanced skills against other players. > > And the worst offender of all was the seemingly harmless _Nefarious favor_ which would have been perfectly balanced if there were no procs on top of it. However, the procs potentially added to it: cripple, torment, bleed, burn, 2 boons corruption, some power damage and vulnerability. All of this instantly, without any tells or cast time on up to 10 targets and with a short cool down, in a game were condi cleanse usually only cleanse up to 2 conditions. That's why there was a need to introduce tells on scourge skills, because with a single button you and all your teammates were loaded with conditions and cover conditions in an instant. Dadnir explains it better than I can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axl.8924 Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 > @"The KMX Leged.9348" said: > They did this to NERF scourges because it was hard to counter play a 0 cast time spell, but Mesmers still get a 0 cast time shatter that is even MORE op....sounds fair (sarcasm).... Thats not true, in fact:There is a delay between shatters.First you got to summon the phantoms which does take a bit, because there is a cd on the ability to summon 3 phantoms instantly, then when they shatter, they have to run to the enemy to explode and there is a delay. I can say this because i have been soloing on my mesmer for days to level him to level 80, and he isn't 80 yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intox.6347 Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 > @"Axl.8924" said: > > @"The KMX Leged.9348" said: > > They did this to NERF scourges because it was hard to counter play a 0 cast time spell, but Mesmers still get a 0 cast time shatter that is even MORE op....sounds fair (sarcasm).... > > Thats not true, in fact:There is a delay between shatters.First you got to summon the phantoms which does take a bit, because there is a cd on the ability to summon 3 phantoms instantly, then when they shatter, they have to run to the enemy to explode and there is a delay. > > I can say this because i have been soloing on my mesmer for days to level him to level 80, and he isn't 80 yet. Thats not delay, you are just confused in terms. Once you finish leveling and learn how to play it, u will learn combo with blink... so precast skill, teleport to target, shatter ... its instant.... not that you click on shatter and after .5 sec its done. Still not problem with cd on scourges in pvp / wvw ... but its just bad for pve .... why its not split lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadnir.5038 Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Mesmer's and Necromancer's gameplay are very different. The ideology and thematic behind the 2 professions also are totally opposite. You can't say: "there is huge tells on one and no tells on the other, so it's unfair!" The reason why there is a need for tells for the scourge is that because there is tons of extra effects added to every single shroud skill. Mesmer's shatter don't have that, should they complain because their shatters don't have extra effects and necromancer's do? The answer is no. NB: Thank you Lahmia to give me credit here, I'm honored. However, I think you belittle yourself to much by saying that you couldn't have done it as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hazethetiger.4806 Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 I don't like the .5 cast time either and honestly have swapped to my Warrior and Ranger for PvP because of it for the time being but I understand why they put it in. I think there could of been a better option, higher cast time with maybe a slightly higher cool down on the shade(s) itself would of been a fair compromise instead of this but who knows, people still say scourge is OP so maybe that is next in the next balance patch. What my gripe is currently relates to the obstructed BS shade skills still have, just let us cast the dang skill without needing PERFECT line of sight on the target. :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axl.8924 Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 > @"intox.6347" said: > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > @"The KMX Leged.9348" said: > > > They did this to NERF scourges because it was hard to counter play a 0 cast time spell, but Mesmers still get a 0 cast time shatter that is even MORE op....sounds fair (sarcasm).... > > > > Thats not true, in fact:There is a delay between shatters.First you got to summon the phantoms which does take a bit, because there is a cd on the ability to summon 3 phantoms instantly, then when they shatter, they have to run to the enemy to explode and there is a delay. > > > > I can say this because i have been soloing on my mesmer for days to level him to level 80, and he isn't 80 yet. > > Thats not delay, you are just confused in terms. Once you finish leveling and learn how to play it, u will learn combo with blink... so precast skill, teleport to target, shatter ... its instant.... not that you click on shatter and after .5 sec its done. > > Still not problem with cd on scourges in pvp / wvw ... but its just bad for pve .... why its not split lol. You do have a delay though wether you like or not.When a image runs to the enemy, it explodes there is a slight delay in disappearance. But either way, necros are a lot tougher to kill and have tons of hp and are pretty easy to survive as in pve.Leveling a mesmer is kinda tough actually, and until you get level 40 something and can start having 1 full build, it doesn't get easier.Once you actually can have dueling spec, AND having illusions, it gets better, but before that:It hurts, trust me.You got long wait in some instances for illusions and you get less options for explosions.Necros with their scepter have really good dmg and hp and with pets is amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intox.6347 Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 > @"Axl.8924" said: > > @"intox.6347" said: > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > @"The KMX Leged.9348" said: > > > > They did this to NERF scourges because it was hard to counter play a 0 cast time spell, but Mesmers still get a 0 cast time shatter that is even MORE op....sounds fair (sarcasm).... > > > > > > Thats not true, in fact:There is a delay between shatters.First you got to summon the phantoms which does take a bit, because there is a cd on the ability to summon 3 phantoms instantly, then when they shatter, they have to run to the enemy to explode and there is a delay. > > > > > > I can say this because i have been soloing on my mesmer for days to level him to level 80, and he isn't 80 yet. > > > > Thats not delay, you are just confused in terms. Once you finish leveling and learn how to play it, u will learn combo with blink... so precast skill, teleport to target, shatter ... its instant.... not that you click on shatter and after .5 sec its done. > > > > Still not problem with cd on scourges in pvp / wvw ... but its just bad for pve .... why its not split lol. > > You do have a delay though wether you like or not.When a image runs to the enemy, it explodes there is a slight delay in disappearance. > > But either way, necros are a lot tougher to kill and have tons of hp and are pretty easy to survive as in pve.Leveling a mesmer is kinda tough actually, and until you get level 40 something and can start having 1 full build, it doesn't get easier.Once you actually can have dueling spec, AND having illusions, it gets better, but before that:It hurts, trust me.You got long wait in some instances for illusions and you get less options for explosions.Necros with their scepter have really good dmg and hp and with pets is amazing. These days nobody cares about leveling to 80 :D All starts in 80... and open world problems .... its like huh... what ? :D Main thing is difference in wvw (pvp) where is cooldown felt.... and mesmer dont have any,.... when u press shatter... it shatter.... so in pvp u combine it with blink (teleport to target) to get insta kill target. Problems of leveling ..... i leveled in old days each class twice to 80 lvl ... and yeah... mesmer is not the easiest one to go to 80, but what i remember ... with power build... GS , (and i used sword + pistol) bloodlust sigil + sigil of speed for swiftness uptime.... it goes well ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimon.7840 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > Mesmer's and Necromancer's gameplay are very different. The ideology and thematic behind the 2 professions also are totally opposite. You can't say: "there is huge tells on one and no tells on the other, so it's unfair!" > > The reason why there is a need for tells for the scourge is that because there is tons of extra effects added to every single shroud skill. Mesmer's shatter don't have that, should they complain because their shatters don't have extra effects and necromancer's do? The answer is no. > > NB: Thank you Lahmia to give me credit here, I'm honored. However, I think you belittle yourself to much by saying that you couldn't have done it as well. Well. They could have added that warning just for f1. So that f2-3 is still instant. Cause as soon as the shade is on the ground, you know there is a big red warning circle. Walking in there is like walking in a lava font of elementalist and wondering why you get dmg. That rlly would have been enough to make the warning just for f1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadnir.5038 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > Mesmer's and Necromancer's gameplay are very different. The ideology and thematic behind the 2 professions also are totally opposite. You can't say: "there is huge tells on one and no tells on the other, so it's unfair!" > > > > The reason why there is a need for tells for the scourge is that because there is tons of extra effects added to every single shroud skill. Mesmer's shatter don't have that, should they complain because their shatters don't have extra effects and necromancer's do? The answer is no. > > > > NB: Thank you Lahmia to give me credit here, I'm honored. However, I think you belittle yourself to much by saying that you couldn't have done it as well. > > Well. They could have added that warning just for f1. So that f2-3 is still instant. Cause as soon as the shade is on the ground, you know there is a big red warning circle. > > Walking in there is like walking in a lava font of elementalist and wondering why you get dmg. > > That rlly would have been enough to make the warning just for f1 Nope, if they wanted to really remove the issue they would have had to remove the F1 proc on F2-F3-F4, strictly speaking the shades skills even in their current state can still be considered OP. There you wouldn't have had any need for tells and it would be at the same level than the mesmer. However, doing this mean that the mechanism would be at odd with at least 4 core traits, something that they do not want to see. The issue lie in how shades work and yes they tried to fix the complaints with another bandaid. You can't keep the way things work and have no tells on the effects. It break the spec, Yes I agree with that but the spec was broken from the very begining. Anet should have never released this thing (we migth have a reaper shroud still usefull if it had been the case.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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