On difficulty modes (Game Maker's Toolkit)

[zealex.9410]

> @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > Why? Because i cant get elsewhere something that interests me but not you?

>

> Ok, I'm willing to hear your case on this one. Are you willing to *swear,* on whatever it is that you hold dear, that you *personally* care more about having a nametag flair or a title,\* that denote that you completed an activity that you do *not* enjoy doing, than I do about having a skin that I think is cool?

>

> Why?

>

> \* And just to be clear, I'm not talking about a "flavor" title, like "Killer Queen" or "Master Carver," I'm talking a purely functional title, like "Raid Master" that really makes no sense without the context of telling people what you enjoy doing.

>

> >For the record id be fine with other pve parts getting a legendary armor of their own. Im mostly concerned with the specific skin staying exclusive.

>

> And for the record, I could care less about other PvE parts getting access to legendary armor of their own, I'm mostly concerned with opening up access to specific skins.

 

I hated ls2 some of the encounters still give me nightmares but i had to do the achievements and story parts to get the luminecent gear to get the light in the darkness title.

 

Edit: I also wamt some of the fractal effects/titles they added with their last update. Thing is i dont enjoy doing the recs but what can you do thats where you get pages.

[Ohoni.6057]

> @"zealex.9410" said:

>I hated ls2 some of the encounters still give me nightmares but i had to do the achievements and story parts to get the luminecent gear to get the light in the darkness title.

 

Ok, but 1. Those achievements were still far easier and less time consuming than the Legendary armor, so you aren't talking anything on an equivalent scale, and 2. The "light in the darkness" title is at least a flavor title. The equivalent to what we're talking about here would just be "Season 2 Mastery" or something like that. Again, we're talking something that accomplishes *nothing* beyond highlighting that you have "done a thing." Did you care that everyone knows that you completed Season 2, or did you feel that the Light in the Darkness title was thematically appropriate to a character?

[zealex.9410]

> @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> > @"zealex.9410" said:

> >I hated ls2 some of the encounters still give me nightmares but i had to do the achievements and story parts to get the luminecent gear to get the light in the darkness title.

>

> Ok, but 1. Those achievements were still far easier and less time consuming than the Legendary armor, so you aren't talking anything on an equivalent scale, and 2. The "light in the darkness" title is at least a flavor title. The equivalent to what we're talking about here would just be "Season 2 Mastery" or something like that. Again, we're talking something that accomplishes *nothing* beyond highlighting that you have "done a thing." Did you care that everyone knows that you completed Season 2, or did you feel that the Light in the Darkness title was thematically appropriate to a character?

 

I found soloing that lw dragon without getting hit by the aoes to be worse than learning Vg and besides what u consider easier doesnt mean its easy. And tbh how much does it matter how hard it is? If something is too hard for someone then thats all that matters. Or should something that snot to hard by someone's standards not be included?

 

And ye i cared for both it was prehot and at that time i was running with mesmer and without the hot powercreep it was still hard (ppl were still asking for groups).

 

I also cared about wearing it because it was a damn fine title and alot of ppl asked me where i got it at that time. The firends i was playing at the time also wanted the title but had give up one boss or the other.

 

 

[Ohoni.6057]

> @"zealex.9410" said:

> I found soloing that lw dragon without getting hit by the aoes to be worse than learning Vg and besides what u consider easier doesnt mean its easy.

 

Really? I didn't really have much trouble with it. Do you have to solo it or is it something a group can help with? A lot of story-based achievements can be pretty trival in a group situation. The longest I ever took on one was that Modnir in the Silverwastes, and that was more trying to carry a team mate through it, and even that took a fraction as long as I spent on Vale Guardian.

 

>And tbh how much does it matter how hard it is? If something is too hard for someone then thats all that matters. Or should something that snot to hard by someone's standards not be included?

 

Well it's about inclusiveness. If something is around the baseline standards of the game, then that's ok, because you're expected to be at that level to enjoy most of the game. The issue with raids is that the standards for completing the raid instances are well above the standards of the rest of the game. Also, if you *do* have a problem with the living story achievements that you just can't reconcile, that's fine, I'm not invalidating your opinion there, but it's a separate argument to be having. If you want to fight for easier access to LS achievement-based rewards, I won't stand in your way, but whether you receive that or not is not really relevant to the current conversation.

 

>I also cared about wearing it because it was a kitten fine title and alot of ppl asked me where i got it at that time. The firends i was playing at the time also wanted the title but had give up one boss or the other.

 

Again though that was a thematic title, the topic under discussion is for a NON-thematic title, one that is not "cool" in any sense other than that it denotes that you accomplished something. Basically if people have to *ask* how you got it, then it's failing that role.

[zealex.9410]

> @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > I found soloing that lw dragon without getting hit by the aoes to be worse than learning Vg and besides what u consider easier doesnt mean its easy.

>

> Really? I didn't really have much trouble with it. Do you have to solo it or is it something a group can help with? A lot of story-based achievements can be pretty trival in a group situation. The longest I ever took on one was that Modnir in the Silverwastes, and that was more trying to carry a team mate through it, and even that took a fraction as long as I spent on Vale Guardian.

>

> >And tbh how much does it matter how hard it is? If something is too hard for someone then thats all that matters. Or should something that snot to hard by someone's standards not be included?

>

> Well it's about inclusiveness. If something is around the baseline standards of the game, then that's ok, because you're expected to be at that level to enjoy most of the game. The issue with raids is that the standards for completing the raid instances are well above the standards of the rest of the game. Also, if you *do* have a problem with the living story achievements that you just can't reconcile, that's fine, I'm not invalidating your opinion there, but it's a separate argument to be having. If you want to fight for easier access to LS achievement-based rewards, I won't stand in your way, but whether you receive that or not is not really relevant to the current conversation.

>

> >I also cared about wearing it because it was a kitten fine title and alot of ppl asked me where i got it at that time. The firends i was playing at the time also wanted the title but had give up one boss or the other.

>

> Again though that was a thematic title, the topic under discussion is for a NON-thematic title, one that is not "cool" in any sense other than that it denotes that you accomplished something. Basically if people have to *ask* how you got it, then it's failing that role.

 

Id assume ppl were new that asked me as at the time i made the connection (luminecent- light in the darkness) i wasnt aware that the title was also the tiltle of a mission in Ps. The matter of fact is that title was still treated by some as something cool that they wanted to have.

 

So by your definition it should be available elsewhere if its harder than the standards and let me tell u that fight was harder than lw3 stuff that anet had to nerf because ppl found too hard. Not even stuff that u had to do on a certain way for achievement which tents to be above the average needed to complete the achievement.

 

Also how is this title and discussion irrelevant? A title related to something cannot be non-thematic to that thing. Raid master can still cause ppl to ask about it due to lack of knowledge in the game itself and its content.

 

Hell i had asked someone about the mesme specific title in pvp and how he got it because i lile the title. Iirc the title is master illusionist or something?

[zealex.9410]

Also id actually like a title like raid master is there such a thing in game?

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"FrizzFreston.5290" said:

> > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > 1. Nobody is born a raider. You become one, by (wait for it).... raiding.

> > > 2. Rules don't treat anyone differently. Or at all, for that matter. It is you who treats the rules differently and thinks that somehow this justifies changing them so they suit you. Unlike real life, game rules *ARE* fair.

> > Lol. This is the same as Ferrari deciding they are going to sell their cars only to doctors. Nobody is born a doctor, anyone (in theory) can become one.

> > Would you ever think that this rule would treat everyone equally? Would you ever say that this rule is fair?

> > It has nothing to do with fairness. It's completely arbitrary, and _does_ treat people differently.

> >

> I don't think you got the meaning of the words "unlike real life" right.

Ah, so you're saying it is unfair in general, but since this is game it suddenly becomes fair?

 

> It's like you're telling people that Going to jail, not passing Go and not receiving $200 isn't fair.

Oh, please... at least make your arguments really relevant.

(hint: your argument would make sense only if the game was all about raids and everyone was a raider)

 

> @"zealex.9410" said:

> Edit: I also wamt some of the fractal effects/titles they added with their last update. Thing is i dont enjoy doing the recs but what can you do thats where you get pages.

The effects actually are completely useless outside fractals. In that regard they are actually a good exclusive reward. Although you're right that the pages aren't exactly a good mechanic/currency and could use a rework.

 

> @"zealex.9410" said:

> For the record id be fine with other pve parts getting a legendary armor of their own.

I'd be fine with it as well. It seems though, that most of the people i argue with about Raids would _not_ be fine about it (as they claim that we don't need more ways of obtaining legendary armor sets and/or one PvE path - the raid one - is enough). Unfortunately it doesn't seem like Anet's going to make more - even both the PvP sets aren't complete (no unique skin, don't count for achievement/no achievement for them - and we know they've only been made because PvP devs gave up on those points).

 

[Miellyn.6847]

> @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> > @"zealex.9410" said:

> >I hated ls2 some of the encounters still give me nightmares but i had to do the achievements and story parts to get the luminecent gear to get the light in the darkness title.

>

> Ok, but 1. Those achievements were still far easier and less time consuming than the Legendary armor, so you aren't talking anything on an equivalent scale, and 2. The "light in the darkness" title is at least a flavor title. The equivalent to what we're talking about here would just be "Season 2 Mastery" or something like that. Again, we're talking something that accomplishes *nothing* beyond highlighting that you have "done a thing." Did you care that everyone knows that you completed Season 2, or did you feel that the Light in the Darkness title was thematically appropriate to a character?

 

Skins also do nothing other than showing that you completed a certain task just in a different way that you appearently don't like.

 

>@"zealex.0410" said:

>Edit: I also wamt some of the fractal effects/titles they added with their last update. Thing is i dont enjoy doing the recs but what can you do thats where you get pages.

 

You also get pages for doing 99 and 100cm.

[zealex.9410]

> @"Miellyn.6847" said:

> > @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> > > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > >I hated ls2 some of the encounters still give me nightmares but i had to do the achievements and story parts to get the luminecent gear to get the light in the darkness title.

> >

> > Ok, but 1. Those achievements were still far easier and less time consuming than the Legendary armor, so you aren't talking anything on an equivalent scale, and 2. The "light in the darkness" title is at least a flavor title. The equivalent to what we're talking about here would just be "Season 2 Mastery" or something like that. Again, we're talking something that accomplishes *nothing* beyond highlighting that you have "done a thing." Did you care that everyone knows that you completed Season 2, or did you feel that the Light in the Darkness title was thematically appropriate to a character?

>

> Skins also do nothing other than showing that you completed a certain task just in a different way that you appearently don't like.

>

> >@"zealex.0410" said:

> >Edit: I also wamt some of the fractal effects/titles they added with their last update. Thing is i dont enjoy doing the recs but what can you do thats where you get pages.

>

> You also get pages for doing 99 and 100cm.

 

Also brings me to another point. How slow is too slow? U must consider that what a good pace would be for you could prob be better than the actual thing or too long for others.

[Feanor.2358]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > 1. Nobody is born a raider. You become one, by (wait for it).... raiding.

> > 2. Rules don't treat anyone differently. Or at all, for that matter. It is you who treats the rules differently and thinks that somehow this justifies changing them so they suit you. Unlike real life, game rules *ARE* fair.

> Lol. This is the same as Ferrari deciding they are going to sell their cars only to doctors. Nobody is born a doctor, anyone (in theory) can become one.

> Would you ever think that this rule would treat everyone equally? Would you ever say that this rule is fair?

> It has nothing to do with fairness. It's completely arbitrary, and _does_ treat people differently.

>

>

 

Ferrari already have put a solid barrier of entry for their cars, it's called "price". Following your own metaphor, you should start whining on their forums to lower their prices because it's not fair you can't buy one if you're not rich enough. For any given item that has at least some appeal you can find an arbitrary metric in which people are treated "differently". But there's the thing, it's the metric that is arbitrary, not the rule itself.

[Ohoni.6057]

> @"zealex.9410" said:

>Id assume ppl were new that asked me as at the time i made the connection (luminecent- light in the darkness) i wasnt aware that the title was also the tiltle of a mission in Ps. The matter of fact is that title was still treated by some as something cool that they wanted to have.

 

Right, but again, it's a thematic title, not the type of title we're discussing here.

 

>So by your definition it should be available elsewhere if its harder than the standards and let me tell u that fight was harder than lw3 stuff that anet had to nerf because ppl found too hard. Not even stuff that u had to do on a certain way for achievement which tents to be above the average needed to complete the achievement.

 

Ok, fight the good fight, I certainly won't stand in your way.

 

>Also how is this title and discussion irrelevant? A title related to something cannot be non-thematic to that thing. Raid master can still cause ppl to ask about it due to lack of knowledge in the game itself and its content.

 

Well, the point is "Raid Master" just means "master of raids." I can't imagine why anyone who doesn't enjoy raids, or *pretend* to enjoy raids, might want the title. "Light in the Darkness" is very cryptic, it's something that plenty of people could reasonably want for their character even if they have no idea what LWs2 was. That's the distinction, it's ok to have a trophy that nobody would want except for its value in conveying that you "did a thing," but not one that has *intrinsic* value entirely divorced from the source of it.

 

>Hell i had asked someone about the mesme specific title in pvp and how he got it because i lile the title. Iirc the title is master illusionist or something?

 

Exactly. Should be "PvP Mesmer" or something similarly literal.

 

>Also id actually like a title like raid master is there such a thing in game?

 

No idea, there should be, if there isn't.

 

> @"Miellyn.6847" said:

>Skins also do nothing other than showing that you completed a certain task just in a different way that you appearently don't like.

 

That's not remotely true. Skins have intrinsic value. You put them on and they speak for themselves, "this is the skin this player chose to wear." Legendary armor doesn't just say "this person likes to raid a lot," it also says "this person likes the way this armor looks." Even if the skin were only visible to the person playing, it makes the game more enjoyable to run around in a look that you prefer. Maybe that doesn't apply to you, but it'd be a hard sell to convince anyone that it doesn't apply to a lot of GW2 players.

 

 

[zealex.9410]

> @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> > @"zealex.9410" said:

> >Id assume ppl were new that asked me as at the time i made the connection (luminecent- light in the darkness) i wasnt aware that the title was also the tiltle of a mission in Ps. The matter of fact is that title was still treated by some as something cool that they wanted to have.

>

> Right, but again, it's a thematic title, not the type of title we're discussing here.

>

> >So by your definition it should be available elsewhere if its harder than the standards and let me tell u that fight was harder than lw3 stuff that anet had to nerf because ppl found too hard. Not even stuff that u had to do on a certain way for achievement which tents to be above the average needed to complete the achievement.

>

> Ok, fight the good fight, I certainly won't stand in your way.

>

> >Also how is this title and discussion irrelevant? A title related to something cannot be non-thematic to that thing. Raid master can still cause ppl to ask about it due to lack of knowledge in the game itself and its content.

>

> Well, the point is "Raid Master" just means "master of raids." I can't imagine why anyone who doesn't enjoy raids, or *pretend* to enjoy raids, might want the title. "Light in the Darkness" is very cryptic, it's something that plenty of people could reasonably want for their character even if they have no idea what LWs2 was. That's the distinction, it's ok to have a trophy that nobody would want except for its value in conveying that you "did a thing," but not one that has *intrinsic* value entirely divorced from the source of it.

>

> >Hell i had asked someone about the mesme specific title in pvp and how he got it because i lile the title. Iirc the title is master illusionist or something?

>

> Exactly. Should be "PvP Mesmer" or something similarly literal.

>

> >Also id actually like a title like raid master is there such a thing in game?

>

> No idea, there should be, if there isn't.

>

> > @"Miellyn.6847" said:

> >Skins also do nothing other than showing that you completed a certain task just in a different way that you appearently don't like.

>

> That's not remotely true. Skins have intrinsic value. You put them on and they speak for themselves, "this is the skin this player chose to wear." Legendary armor doesn't just say "this person likes to raid a lot," it also says "this person likes the way this armor looks." Even if the skin were only visible to the person playing, it makes the game more enjoyable to run around in a look that you prefer. Maybe that doesn't apply to you, but it'd be a hard sell to convince anyone that it doesn't apply to a lot of GW2 players.

>

>

 

If it existed/exists wouldnt that make it break the standards that you placed because i like the sound of it while it clearly by your standpoint shouldnt be seen as cool. Same aplies to pvp god or pvp master for the matter. Both are very specific and show 1 thing. Hell the title coud be rank1 and id still find it cool and would want to get it.

[Miellyn.6847]

> @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> > @"Miellyn.6847" said:

> >Skins also do nothing other than showing that you completed a certain task just in a different way that you appearently don't like.

>

> That's not remotely true. Skins have intrinsic value. You put them on and they speak for themselves, "this is the skin this player chose to wear." Legendary armor doesn't just say "this person likes to raid a lot," it also says "this person likes the way this armor looks." Even if the skin were only visible to the person playing, it makes the game more enjoyable to run around in a look that you prefer. Maybe that doesn't apply to you, but it'd be a hard sell to convince anyone that it doesn't apply to a lot of GW2 players.

>

 

Everything you wrote here also applies for titles that are not stupid non-sense like 'Season 2 Mastery' you suggested for all LS2 achievements and WvW titles are a lot more time consuming and harder than legendary armor.

So you basically can't offer anything for a certain task as you need atleast 6 ways to get it (WvW, sPvP, open world, raids, fractals, dungeons). Sounds unrealistic. And stupid.

[yann.1946]

> @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> > @"zealex.9410" said:

> >Id assume ppl were new that asked me as at the time i made the connection (luminecent- light in the darkness) i wasnt aware that the title was also the tiltle of a mission in Ps. The matter of fact is that title was still treated by some as something cool that they wanted to have.

>

> Right, but again, it's a thematic title, not the type of title we're discussing here.

>

> >Also how is this title and discussion irrelevant? A title related to something cannot be non-thematic to that thing. Raid master can still cause ppl to ask about it due to lack of knowledge in the game itself and its content.

>

> Well, the point is "Raid Master" just means "master of raids." I can't imagine why anyone who doesn't enjoy raids, or *pretend* to enjoy raids, might want the title. "Light in the Darkness" is very cryptic, it's something that plenty of people could reasonably want for their character even if they have no idea what LWs2 was. That's the distinction, it's ok to have a trophy that nobody would want except for its value in conveying that you "did a thing," but not one that has *intrinsic* value entirely divorced from the source of it.

>

 

Well the word raid has multiple meanings so raid master could mean different things.

People could want the raid master title because it sounds cool. Fractal god for example does sound pretty nice even if you don't play fractals so people might want that one even tho it isn't that thematic.

 

[Feanor.2358]

There's no such thing as "intrinsic value" by the way. "Value" isn't some physical property which objectively exists and can be measured. Value is your mind's perception of something's appeal. Therefore the distinction Ohoni makes is artificial.

[Ohoni.6057]

> @"zealex.9410" said:

> If it existed/exists wouldnt that make it break the standards that you placed because i like the sound of it while it clearly by your standpoint shouldnt be seen as cool. Same aplies to pvp god or pvp master for the matter. Both are very specific and show 1 thing. Hell the title coud be rank1 and id still find it cool and would want to get it.

 

Why would someone want the title "PvP God" unless they either enjoyed PvP, or wanted to trick other players into believing that they enjoyed PvP? What use would that title have if PvP were not even a part of the game?

 

I have to say, I suspect that you're making arguments that you know don't make sense, just for the sake of having a come-back.

> @"Miellyn.6847" said:

> Everything you wrote here also applies for titles that are not stupid non-sense like 'Season 2 Mastery'

 

Agreed, and that's why the others are not included in the scope of what I'm talking about here.

 

> all LS2 achievements and WvW titles are a lot more time consuming and harder than legendary armor.

 

That's not true at all.

 

> So you basically can't offer anything for a certain task as you need atleast 6 ways to get it (WvW, sPvP, open world, raids, fractals, dungeons). Sounds unrealistic. And stupid.

 

It's basically a split system. You offer a specific title or nametag flair option for various tasks, you offer a specific path to rewards that is unique to a specific mode, but then you also offer alternate ways of earning it in the other modes, using a mode generic currency system. The other mode versions would be much less complicated, but also much less efficient. For example we were discussing the LWs2 rewards earlier, those took about a week or so per episode, so maybe a couple hours a day for six weeks or so, and that would be one way to earn them, but if you had no interest in that, you could earn them in other modes, with a minimum of maybe twelve weeks of spending the same hours running the content, plus a little extra depending on how easy/hard the content is (ie the raids would reward more than killing world bosses would). Once the system is in place, populating it wouldn't be hugely complicated, all they'd have to do is apply a similar budget to the items and the math would largely work itself out.

 

> @"yann.1946" said:

>Well the word raid has multiple meanings so raid master could mean different things.

 

I believe you're splitting hairs for the sake of it at this point.

 

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

> There's no such thing as "intrinsic value" by the way. "Value" isn't some physical property which objectively exists and can be measured. Value is your mind's perception of something's appeal. Therefore the distinction Ohoni makes is artificial.

 

Is there some sort of hair-splitting convention in town?

 

Seriously guys, put your heads together, come up with a rational argument, and we can talk.

[Feanor.2358]

Kek. Sure. Throw random garbage that makes no sense as arguments, then ask for rational one. You made my day bro. :lol:

[Miellyn.6847]

> @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> I have to say, I suspect that you're making arguments that you know don't make sense, just for the sake of having a come-back.

> > @"Miellyn.6847" said:

> > Everything you wrote here also applies for titles that are not stupid non-sense like 'Season 2 Mastery'

>

> Agreed, and that's why the others are not included in the scope of what I'm talking about here.

>

> > all LS2 achievements and WvW titles are a lot more time consuming and harder than legendary armor.

>

> That's not true at all.

>

> > So you basically can't offer anything for a certain task as you need atleast 6 ways to get it (WvW, sPvP, open world, raids, fractals, dungeons). Sounds unrealistic. And stupid.

>

> It's basically a split system. You offer a specific title or nametag flair option for various tasks, you offer a specific path to rewards that is unique to a specific mode, but then you also offer alternate ways of earning it in the other modes, using a mode generic currency system. The other mode versions would be much less complicated, but also much less efficient. For example we were discussing the LWs2 rewards earlier, those took about a week or so per episode, so maybe a couple hours a day for six weeks or so, and that would be one way to earn them, but if you had no interest in that, you could earn them in other modes, with a minimum of maybe twelve weeks of spending the same hours running the content, plus a little extra depending on how easy/hard the content is (ie the raids would reward more than killing world bosses would). Once the system is in place, populating it wouldn't be hugely complicated, all they'd have to do is apply a similar budget to the items and the math would largely work itself out.

 

So basically do the complex way or just buy it at release with a currency you already have in another part of the game? This won't work. Adding a new currency with each release also only works for LS maps imagine it in WvW or PvP.

 

You basically want things for free without any effort at release day. Just stop it.

 

[zealex.9410]

> @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > If it existed/exists wouldnt that make it break the standards that you placed because i like the sound of it while it clearly by your standpoint shouldnt be seen as cool. Same aplies to pvp god or pvp master for the matter. Both are very specific and show 1 thing. Hell the title coud be rank1 and id still find it cool and would want to get it.

>

> Why would someone want the title "PvP God" unless they either enjoyed PvP, or wanted to trick other players into believing that they enjoyed PvP? What use would that title have if PvP were not even a part of the game?

>

> I have to say, I suspect that you're making arguments that you know don't make sense, just for the sake of having a come-back.

> > @"Miellyn.6847" said:

> > Everything you wrote here also applies for titles that are not stupid non-sense like 'Season 2 Mastery'

>

> Agreed, and that's why the others are not included in the scope of what I'm talking about here.

>

> > all LS2 achievements and WvW titles are a lot more time consuming and harder than legendary armor.

>

> That's not true at all.

>

> > So you basically can't offer anything for a certain task as you need atleast 6 ways to get it (WvW, sPvP, open world, raids, fractals, dungeons). Sounds unrealistic. And stupid.

>

> It's basically a split system. You offer a specific title or nametag flair option for various tasks, you offer a specific path to rewards that is unique to a specific mode, but then you also offer alternate ways of earning it in the other modes, using a mode generic currency system. The other mode versions would be much less complicated, but also much less efficient. For example we were discussing the LWs2 rewards earlier, those took about a week or so per episode, so maybe a couple hours a day for six weeks or so, and that would be one way to earn them, but if you had no interest in that, you could earn them in other modes, with a minimum of maybe twelve weeks of spending the same hours running the content, plus a little extra depending on how easy/hard the content is (ie the raids would reward more than killing world bosses would). Once the system is in place, populating it wouldn't be hugely complicated, all they'd have to do is apply a similar budget to the items and the math would largely work itself out.

>

> > @"yann.1946" said:

> >Well the word raid has multiple meanings so raid master could mean different things.

>

> I believe you're splitting hairs for the sake of it at this point.

>

> > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > There's no such thing as "intrinsic value" by the way. "Value" isn't some physical property which objectively exists and can be measured. Value is your mind's perception of something's appeal. Therefore the distinction Ohoni makes is artificial.

>

> Is there some sort of hair-splitting convention in town?

>

> Seriously guys, put your heads together, come up with a rational argument, and we can talk.

 

Why would anyone want the title? Idk why do you want the skins?

[Miellyn.6847]

> @"zealex.9410" said:

> > @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> > > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > > If it existed/exists wouldnt that make it break the standards that you placed because i like the sound of it while it clearly by your standpoint shouldnt be seen as cool. Same aplies to pvp god or pvp master for the matter. Both are very specific and show 1 thing. Hell the title coud be rank1 and id still find it cool and would want to get it.

> >

> > Why would someone want the title "PvP God" unless they either enjoyed PvP, or wanted to trick other players into believing that they enjoyed PvP? What use would that title have if PvP were not even a part of the game?

> >

> > I have to say, I suspect that you're making arguments that you know don't make sense, just for the sake of having a come-back.

> > > @"Miellyn.6847" said:

> > > Everything you wrote here also applies for titles that are not stupid non-sense like 'Season 2 Mastery'

> >

> > Agreed, and that's why the others are not included in the scope of what I'm talking about here.

> >

> > > all LS2 achievements and WvW titles are a lot more time consuming and harder than legendary armor.

> >

> > That's not true at all.

> >

> > > So you basically can't offer anything for a certain task as you need atleast 6 ways to get it (WvW, sPvP, open world, raids, fractals, dungeons). Sounds unrealistic. And stupid.

> >

> > It's basically a split system. You offer a specific title or nametag flair option for various tasks, you offer a specific path to rewards that is unique to a specific mode, but then you also offer alternate ways of earning it in the other modes, using a mode generic currency system. The other mode versions would be much less complicated, but also much less efficient. For example we were discussing the LWs2 rewards earlier, those took about a week or so per episode, so maybe a couple hours a day for six weeks or so, and that would be one way to earn them, but if you had no interest in that, you could earn them in other modes, with a minimum of maybe twelve weeks of spending the same hours running the content, plus a little extra depending on how easy/hard the content is (ie the raids would reward more than killing world bosses would). Once the system is in place, populating it wouldn't be hugely complicated, all they'd have to do is apply a similar budget to the items and the math would largely work itself out.

> >

> > > @"yann.1946" said:

> > >Well the word raid has multiple meanings so raid master could mean different things.

> >

> > I believe you're splitting hairs for the sake of it at this point.

> >

> > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > There's no such thing as "intrinsic value" by the way. "Value" isn't some physical property which objectively exists and can be measured. Value is your mind's perception of something's appeal. Therefore the distinction Ohoni makes is artificial.

> >

> > Is there some sort of hair-splitting convention in town?

> >

> > Seriously guys, put your heads together, come up with a rational argument, and we can talk.

>

> Why would anyone want the title? Idk why do you want the skins?

 

Because of the intrinsic value there are no selfish reasons that ignore the rest of the community. Didn't you read his posts? Geez.

[Ohoni.6057]

> @"Miellyn.6847" said:

>So basically do the complex way or just buy it at release with a currency you already have in another part of the game?

 

Fair point, but what if they at least time-gated the purchase, so that it was impossible to get elsewhere for maybe 3-6 months, giving "right way" people plenty of time to earn it and show it off before "the plebes" would be able to get our hands on it? They could also do seasonal things, similar to the LWs3 and s4 currencies, except with an exchange rate to it, so that if you farmed a ton of s3 currency, you but didn't want to buy any of the s3 stuff, you could convert it to s4 currency, but at a lossy rate so that it wouldn't go as far. It would make the new updates exciting since there would be so many new things to pick up.

 

>Adding a new currency with each release also only works for LS maps imagine it in WvW or PvP.

 

They already have seasons. It's not such a huge stretch.

 

>You basically want things for free without any effort at release day. Just stop it.

 

I basically don't, and continuing to misrepresent my position is not doing you any favors.

 

> @"Miellyn.6847" said:

> > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > Why would anyone want the title? Idk why do you want the skins?

>

> Because of the intrinsic value there are no selfish reasons that ignore the rest of the community. Didn't you read his posts? Geez.

 

See? Even he gets it, when he's acting in good faith.

 

[Feanor.2358]

> @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> > @"Miellyn.6847" said:

> >So basically do the complex way or just buy it at release with a currency you already have in another part of the game?

>

> Fair point, but what if they at least time-gated the purchase, so that it was impossible to get elsewhere for maybe 3-6 months, giving "right way" people plenty of time to earn it and show it off before "the plebes" would be able to get our hands on it? They could also do seasonal things, similar to the LWs3 and s4 currencies, except with an exchange rate to it, so that if you farmed a ton of s3 currency, you but didn't want to buy any of the s3 stuff, you could convert it to s4 currency, but at a lossy rate so that it wouldn't go as far. It would make the new updates exciting since there would be so many new things to pick up.

>

> >Adding a new currency with each release also only works for LS maps imagine it in WvW or PvP.

>

> They already have seasons. It's not such a huge stretch.

>

> >You basically want things for free without any effort at release day. Just stop it.

>

> I basically don't, and continuing to misrepresent my position is not doing you any favors.

>

> > @"Miellyn.6847" said:

> > > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > > Why would anyone want the title? Idk why do you want the skins?

> >

> > Because of the intrinsic value there are no selfish reasons that ignore the rest of the community. Didn't you read his posts? Geez.

>

> See? Even he gets it, when he's acting in good faith.

>

 

You may want to check the meaning of the word "sarcasm". ;)

[Miellyn.6847]

> @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> > @"Miellyn.6847" said:

> >So basically do the complex way or just buy it at release with a currency you already have in another part of the game?

>

> Fair point, but what if they at least time-gated the purchase, so that it was impossible to get elsewhere for maybe 3-6 months, giving "right way" people plenty of time to earn it and show it off before "the plebes" would be able to get our hands on it? They could also do seasonal things, similar to the LWs3 and s4 currencies, except with an exchange rate to it, so that if you farmed a ton of s3 currency, you but didn't want to buy any of the s3 stuff, you could convert it to s4 currency, but at a lossy rate so that it wouldn't go as far. It would make the new updates exciting since there would be so many new things to pick up.

>

> >Adding a new currency with each release also only works for LS maps imagine it in WvW or PvP.

>

> They already have seasons. It's not such a huge stretch.

>

> >You basically want things for free without any effort at release day. Just stop it.

>

> I basically don't, and continuing to misrepresent my position is not doing you any favors.

>

> > @"Miellyn.6847" said:

> > > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > > Why would anyone want the title? Idk why do you want the skins?

> >

> > Because of the intrinsic value there are no selfish reasons that ignore the rest of the community. Didn't you read his posts? Geez.

>

> See? Even he gets it, when he's acting in good faith.

>

 

Time gates are universally hated. Really bad idea.

 

Currencies won't work with the same reward. If you award a new currency each season either reward all previous currencies too or the old ones become obsolvete, bloating the system and confusing players when you can buy the same item for 4 different currencies. Changing old to new currencies doesn't avoid anything just deplets it faster. If you have enough you just buy it at release date for a bit higher price. Look at the legendaries that get released with every LS episode. The recipes are known, people gather the materials and build them 5min into the release.

 

See the raid currencies. You have one for Wing 1-4 and a new one for Wing 5. You can only change the new currency into the old to not devalue the new rewards.

[Ohoni.6057]

> @"Miellyn.6847" said:

>Time gates are universally hated. Really bad idea.

 

It really does depend on the context. Absolute time gates can be kind of lame, but I think players would understand them in this context, don't you? Like say you're a raider, hate PvP, but really want the Ascension (none of that may actually apply to you, but TRY to pretend that it's all true, substitute whichever examples you need). Which situation would you prefer, A. You could NEVER have the Ascension without doing PvP, OR B. you could have it, but not until 3-6 months after it completely unlocked in PvP, and it would cost you the better part of a year's worth of accumulated raiding currencies. A, or B, if you genuinely felt that way, which outcome do you believe would lead you to be happiest?

 

>Currencies won't work with the same reward. If you award a new currency each season either reward all previous currencies too or the old ones become obsolvete, bloating the system and confusing players when you can buy the same item for 4 different currencies.

 

Allow for down-conversion too. As an example, if the s3 currencies are no longer available, but the s4 are, then a player with 5000 s3 currencies could convert those into maybe 1250 s4 currency, and get a head start on the new stuff. Meanwhile, a new player who's been farming s4 but really likes the s3 stuff, could likewise trade his 1000 s4 currency for 1000 s3 currency. I think that would adequately serve both groups, and again, it would actually work better than existing systems in a lot of ways. Much more flexible.

 

>If you have enough you just buy it at release date for a bit higher price.

 

True, but that means you'd have to be grinding very hard at the old stuff to have such a significant stockpile, and you'd want to keep grinding the new stuff to have a similar stockpile when the next season rolls around. It would really add a push-pull to the "content whales," because they would be able to show off all the cool new stuff on day one, while the more casual players would still be able to collect it before the next season rolls around.

 

Also keep in mind that the available reward pool would be MUCH larger than is currently available. You talk about the raid wing currencies, and how people have enough wing 1-4 currencies that they could rush the wing 5 rewards (without minding that they were able to rush the wing 4 rewards already, apparently), but remember that in this system, not only could their raid 1-4 currencies buy them the existing raid items, but they could also be buying various open world, Fractal, PvP, WvW, etc. items, and at a premium over what they'd be in their home locations, so chances are that most players would have plenty of things they would want to buy with what currencies they were able to acquire. I don't think there would be huge surpluses over the current situation, in fact it's likely that players would have much less spare currency than they do now.

[zealex.9410]

> @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> > @"Miellyn.6847" said:

> >Time gates are universally hated. Really bad idea.

>

> It really does depend on the context. Absolute time gates can be kind of lame, but I think players would understand them in this context, don't you? Like say you're a raider, hate PvP, but really want the Ascension (none of that may actually apply to you, but TRY to pretend that it's all true, substitute whichever examples you need). Which situation would you prefer, A. You could NEVER have the Ascension without doing PvP, OR B. you could have it, but not until 3-6 months after it completely unlocked in PvP, and it would cost you the better part of a year's worth of accumulated raiding currencies. A, or B, if you genuinely felt that way, which outcome do you believe would lead you to be happiest?

>

> >Currencies won't work with the same reward. If you award a new currency each season either reward all previous currencies too or the old ones become obsolvete, bloating the system and confusing players when you can buy the same item for 4 different currencies.

>

> Allow for down-conversion too. As an example, if the s3 currencies are no longer available, but the s4 are, then a player with 5000 s3 currencies could convert those into maybe 1250 s4 currency, and get a head start on the new stuff. Meanwhile, a new player who's been farming s4 but really likes the s3 stuff, could likewise trade his 1000 s4 currency for 1000 s3 currency. I think that would adequately serve both groups, and again, it would actually work better than existing systems in a lot of ways. Much more flexible.

>

> >If you have enough you just buy it at release date for a bit higher price.

>

> True, but that means you'd have to be grinding very hard at the old stuff to have such a significant stockpile, and you'd want to keep grinding the new stuff to have a similar stockpile when the next season rolls around. It would really add a push-pull to the "content whales," because they would be able to show off all the cool new stuff on day one, while the more casual players would still be able to collect it before the next season rolls around.

>

> Also keep in mind that the available reward pool would be MUCH larger than is currently available. You talk about the raid wing currencies, and how people have enough wing 1-4 currencies that they could rush the wing 5 rewards (without minding that they were able to rush the wing 4 rewards already, apparently), but remember that in this system, not only could their raid 1-4 currencies buy them the existing raid items, but they could also be buying various open world, Fractal, PvP, WvW, etc. items, and at a premium over what they'd be in their home locations, so chances are that most players would have plenty of things they would want to buy with what currencies they were able to acquire. I don't think there would be huge surpluses over the current situation, in fact it's likely that players would have much less spare currency than they do now.

 

The "that depends on the context" arguement can go both ways. For example everyone would hate locking stuff only to a small part of the game if they have insane value. Like a tool to make insane amounts of gold or a type of legendary gear. But they would be ok if it was anything as simple as a skin.