Feanor.2358 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > >It really isnt. 1 is an entite armot tier the other is a skin. > > > > > > And which matters more to you is entirely subjective. As you say, one is an entire armor tier (whcih does not have higher stats than the previous tier), and the other is a skin. The skin is more important. > > > > > > If you disagree, and think that the skin is unimportant, then great, we aren't in conflict! Make the Legendary armor exclusive to raids, and open up the skins to be available elsewhere. > > > > > > > > > > I like how u read the line in what ever way makes sense to you. Bottom line is keep the skin in raids give pve an armor of it own (with its own skin) > > And bottom line is, I couldn't care less about that. If the non-raid PvE skins looked cool to me, I might chase after those, but I would still be no less interested in opening up the raid skins through other means. It will never be about "something just as good." Bottom line is, the game isn't made for you specifically. Design decisions are taken based on how the player base at large would react. It doesn't matter if *you* wouldn't be interested, because many others *are*. That's (part of) the intent, and the results match it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted March 28, 2018 Author Share Posted March 28, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > >It really isnt. 1 is an entite armot tier the other is a skin. > > > > > > > > And which matters more to you is entirely subjective. As you say, one is an entire armor tier (whcih does not have higher stats than the previous tier), and the other is a skin. The skin is more important. > > > > > > > > If you disagree, and think that the skin is unimportant, then great, we aren't in conflict! Make the Legendary armor exclusive to raids, and open up the skins to be available elsewhere. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I like how u read the line in what ever way makes sense to you. Bottom line is keep the skin in raids give pve an armor of it own (with its own skin) > > > > And bottom line is, I couldn't care less about that. If the non-raid PvE skins looked cool to me, I might chase after those, but I would still be no less interested in opening up the raid skins through other means. It will never be about "something just as good." > > Bottom line is, the game isn't made for you specifically. Design decisions are taken based on how the player base at large would react. It doesn't matter if *you* wouldn't be interested, because many others *are*. That's (part of) the intent, and the results match it. And my assertion is that more players would benefit from and be pleased by opening up access to the skins than would be upset by it. I may be wrong, but it'll be hard ton convince me of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miellyn.6847 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > >It really isnt. 1 is an entite armot tier the other is a skin. > > > > > > > > > > And which matters more to you is entirely subjective. As you say, one is an entire armor tier (whcih does not have higher stats than the previous tier), and the other is a skin. The skin is more important. > > > > > > > > > > If you disagree, and think that the skin is unimportant, then great, we aren't in conflict! Make the Legendary armor exclusive to raids, and open up the skins to be available elsewhere. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I like how u read the line in what ever way makes sense to you. Bottom line is keep the skin in raids give pve an armor of it own (with its own skin) > > > > > > And bottom line is, I couldn't care less about that. If the non-raid PvE skins looked cool to me, I might chase after those, but I would still be no less interested in opening up the raid skins through other means. It will never be about "something just as good." > > > > Bottom line is, the game isn't made for you specifically. Design decisions are taken based on how the player base at large would react. It doesn't matter if *you* wouldn't be interested, because many others *are*. That's (part of) the intent, and the results match it. > > And my assertion is that more players would benefit from and be pleased by opening up access to the skins than would be upset by it. I may be wrong, but it'll be hard ton convince me of that. Given the fact that exclusive skins exist for decades and work fine, it is actually pretty easy to prove that you are wrong no matter if you are convinced or not. Didn't you say you want to avoid baseless assumptions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted March 28, 2018 Author Share Posted March 28, 2018 > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > Given the fact that exclusive skins exist for decades and work fine, it is actually pretty easy to prove that you are wrong no matter if you are convinced or not. I think that you believe this to be true, but no, it is not "proof" of anything, it is just "the way things are done" in a lot of cases. "The way things are done" is always right, until it isn't, and then it could turn out that it was never right in the first place. At one point it was impossible to consider a game expecting you to pay money after purchasing it. At one point it was unthinkable that you could run an MMO without a monthly fee. Just because plenty of other games do a certain thing, doesn't "prove" that it's the best thing to do, it only proves that they lack imagination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > >It really isnt. 1 is an entite armot tier the other is a skin. > > > > > > > > > > And which matters more to you is entirely subjective. As you say, one is an entire armor tier (whcih does not have higher stats than the previous tier), and the other is a skin. The skin is more important. > > > > > > > > > > If you disagree, and think that the skin is unimportant, then great, we aren't in conflict! Make the Legendary armor exclusive to raids, and open up the skins to be available elsewhere. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I like how u read the line in what ever way makes sense to you. Bottom line is keep the skin in raids give pve an armor of it own (with its own skin) > > > > > > And bottom line is, I couldn't care less about that. If the non-raid PvE skins looked cool to me, I might chase after those, but I would still be no less interested in opening up the raid skins through other means. It will never be about "something just as good." > > > > Bottom line is, the game isn't made for you specifically. Design decisions are taken based on how the player base at large would react. It doesn't matter if *you* wouldn't be interested, because many others *are*. That's (part of) the intent, and the results match it. > > And my assertion is that more players would benefit from and be pleased by opening up access to the skins than would be upset by it. I may be wrong, but it'll be hard ton convince me of that. Your assertion is backed by nothing and is obviously not supported by the developers themselves. And there are plenty of reasons for that. It is impossible to convince you, because you simply want to be right and won't hear any of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted March 28, 2018 Author Share Posted March 28, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > Your assertion is backed by nothing and is obviously not supported by the developers themselves. And there are plenty of reasons for that. It is impossible to convince you, because you simply want to be right and won't hear any of it. The same could be said of you, aside from that the developers *currently* seem to agree with that side, That doesn't mean that they wouldn't benefit from changing their mind on the matter, much as they did about raids in the first place, if you lot are to be believed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miellyn.6847 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > > Given the fact that exclusive skins exist for decades and work fine, it is actually pretty easy to prove that you are wrong no matter if you are convinced or not. > > I think that you believe this to be true, but no, it is not "proof" of anything, it is just "the way things are done" in a lot of cases. "The way things are done" is always right, until it isn't, and then it could turn out that it was never right in the first place. At one point it was impossible to consider a game expecting you to pay money after purchasing it. At one point it was unthinkable that you could run an MMO without a monthly fee. Just because plenty of other games do a certain thing, doesn't "prove" that it's the best thing to do, it only proves that they lack imagination. > Yeah because at one point Internet was very expensive, when costs decline you don't need as much money as before. In 1990 nobody thought Internet will be cheap as today. With plenty of other games you mean all other games? Name one multiplayer game that actually uses your idea. We have over 25 years of graphical MMORPGs now and even more for games in general and you think nobody ever considered this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted March 28, 2018 Author Share Posted March 28, 2018 > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > > > Given the fact that exclusive skins exist for decades and work fine, it is actually pretty easy to prove that you are wrong no matter if you are convinced or not. > > > > I think that you believe this to be true, but no, it is not "proof" of anything, it is just "the way things are done" in a lot of cases. "The way things are done" is always right, until it isn't, and then it could turn out that it was never right in the first place. At one point it was impossible to consider a game expecting you to pay money after purchasing it. At one point it was unthinkable that you could run an MMO without a monthly fee. Just because plenty of other games do a certain thing, doesn't "prove" that it's the best thing to do, it only proves that they lack imagination. > > > > Yeah because at one point Internet was very expensive, when costs decline you don't need as much money as before. In 1990 nobody thought Internet will be cheap as today. > With plenty of other games you mean all other games? Name one multiplayer game that actually uses your idea. > We have over 25 years of graphical MMORPGs now and even more for games in general and you think nobody ever considered this? Ever hear of PUBG? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > Your assertion is backed by nothing and is obviously not supported by the developers themselves. And there are plenty of reasons for that. It is impossible to convince you, because you simply want to be right and won't hear any of it. > > The same could be said of you, aside from that the developers *currently* seem to agree with that side, That doesn't mean that they wouldn't benefit from changing their mind on the matter, much as they did about raids in the first place, if you lot are to be believed. But it certainly doesn't mean they *would* benefit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miellyn.6847 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > > > > Given the fact that exclusive skins exist for decades and work fine, it is actually pretty easy to prove that you are wrong no matter if you are convinced or not. > > > > > > I think that you believe this to be true, but no, it is not "proof" of anything, it is just "the way things are done" in a lot of cases. "The way things are done" is always right, until it isn't, and then it could turn out that it was never right in the first place. At one point it was impossible to consider a game expecting you to pay money after purchasing it. At one point it was unthinkable that you could run an MMO without a monthly fee. Just because plenty of other games do a certain thing, doesn't "prove" that it's the best thing to do, it only proves that they lack imagination. > > > > > > > Yeah because at one point Internet was very expensive, when costs decline you don't need as much money as before. In 1990 nobody thought Internet will be cheap as today. > > With plenty of other games you mean all other games? Name one multiplayer game that actually uses your idea. > > We have over 25 years of graphical MMORPGs now and even more for games in general and you think nobody ever considered this? > > Ever hear of PUBG? Yes. This game has a single game mode (different group size is like ranked pvp). Also the skins are all contained in loot boxes. Next example that actually fit your claim? If you forgot it, your claim was that a game with _multiple_ game modes will profit if you bring game mode exclusive skins into all game modes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinceman.4572 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 PUBG is called an MMORPG nowadays or in the slightest comparable with GW2? Also, the reward in PUBG is your chicken dinner not skins or anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > Name one multiplayer game that actually uses your idea. Pen and paper RPGs in general. Like, you know, the very origin behind the MMORPGs. The only reason why MMORPGs went different way in the beginning, was due to the technical limitations - first MMOs were simply way too crude and many ideas couldn't be realized. And by the time the potential for complexity went up, many people have forgotten that a lot of "features" were in truth nothing more than flaws. Also, 25 years? I could name offhand a ton of things humanity considered quite normal for far, far longer, that ended up being changed because at some point people realized that they weren't all that good (or even that in fact they were a really bad idea). "things have always been this way" is not a good argument. And not only because it isn't true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted March 28, 2018 Author Share Posted March 28, 2018 > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > > > > > Given the fact that exclusive skins exist for decades and work fine, it is actually pretty easy to prove that you are wrong no matter if you are convinced or not. > > > > > > > > I think that you believe this to be true, but no, it is not "proof" of anything, it is just "the way things are done" in a lot of cases. "The way things are done" is always right, until it isn't, and then it could turn out that it was never right in the first place. At one point it was impossible to consider a game expecting you to pay money after purchasing it. At one point it was unthinkable that you could run an MMO without a monthly fee. Just because plenty of other games do a certain thing, doesn't "prove" that it's the best thing to do, it only proves that they lack imagination. > > > > > > > > > > Yeah because at one point Internet was very expensive, when costs decline you don't need as much money as before. In 1990 nobody thought Internet will be cheap as today. > > > With plenty of other games you mean all other games? Name one multiplayer game that actually uses your idea. > > > We have over 25 years of graphical MMORPGs now and even more for games in general and you think nobody ever considered this? > > > > Ever hear of PUBG? > > Yes. This game has a single game mode (different group size is like ranked pvp). Also the skins are all contained in loot boxes. Next example that actually fit your claim? If you forgot it, your claim was that a game with _multiple_ game modes will profit if you bring game mode exclusive skins into all game modes. My point was more that no game was doing what PUBG was doing, until PUBG did it, and now suddenly everyone is doing it and making a ton of money at it. If you told Player Unknown "nobody does battle royale games, therefore it's proven that there's no market for them," you would be exactly as right about that as you are here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miellyn.6847 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > > Name one multiplayer game that actually uses your idea. > Pen and paper RPGs in general. Like, you know, the very origin behind the MMORPGs. > The only reason why MMORPGs went different way in the beginning, was due to the technical limitations - first MMOs were simply way too crude and many ideas couldn't be realized. And by the time the potential for complexity went up, many people have forgotten that a lot of "features" were in truth nothing more than flaws. > > Also, 25 years? I could name offhand a ton of things humanity considered quite normal for far, far longer, that ended up being changed because at some point people realized that they weren't all that good (or even that in fact they were a really bad idea). > > "things have always been this way" is not a good argument. And not only because it isn't true. > > All rewards in all game modes is not exactly something that had technical limitations in the past. > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > My point was more that no game was doing what PUBG was doing, until PUBG did it, and now suddenly everyone is doing it and making a ton of money at it. If you told Player Unknown "nobody does battle royale games, therefore it's proven that there's no market for them," you would be exactly as right about that as you are here. Was already present in Unreal Tournament and DayZ before PUBG existed. It was just like LoL at the right time at the right place and less buggy than the rest but not new. DayZ was just a bugged mess that's why nobody wanted it but the initial interest was huge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 Actually wow did it. They introduced titan forging which made it so u can get highest raid tier gear from even the lfr. And ppl got burned out and quit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted March 29, 2018 Author Share Posted March 29, 2018 > @"zealex.9410" said: > Actually wow did it. They introduced titan forging which made it so u can get highest raid tier gear from even the lfr. And ppl got burned out and quit. Wow is a 12 year old game that is still doing better than most on the market, so "burned out and quit" has to be taken with a grain of salt. It's something of a miracle that anyone's still playing at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > Actually wow did it. They introduced titan forging which made it so u can get highest raid tier gear from even the lfr. And ppl got burned out and quit. > > Wow is a 12 year old game that is still doing better than most on the market, so "burned out and quit" has to be taken with a grain of salt. It's something of a miracle that anyone's still playing at all. This was in the current expac not years ago. And wow idd does better than most other mmos and still runs in large this very system u ask to be changed ( well not with stats so much even tho they are reverting that with the next expac but with cosmetics). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 > @"zealex.9410" said: > Actually wow did it. They introduced titan forging which made it so u can get highest raid tier gear from even the lfr. And ppl got burned out and quit. People tended to get burned out and quit even before they introduced LFR. The raids themselves cause this to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > Actually wow did it. They introduced titan forging which made it so u can get highest raid tier gear from even the lfr. And ppl got burned out and quit. > People tended to get burned out and quit even before they introduced LFR. The raids themselves cause this to happen. > Idd it was just more noticable and severe this expac due to some choices blizzard made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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