Upcomig damage reductions...

[Arlette.9684]

@"OriOri.8724" @"Pyroatheist.9031"

 

I’m sure by now both of you have had a chance to take a look at the scope of the changes. I’d very much like to see what you think about them as I know we had a discussion about overall damage overhaul. I personally didn’t see this coming, ANET actually took the difficult way and went for damage reduction instead of defense boost. I commemorate their effort. I do think it’s rather tame but it gives us an insight as to what they intend to do.

 

Comment away, I wanna hear your thoughts on this.

[Arlette.9684]

What’s with the tripple posting, can a mod fix this please?

@"Forum Moderator.5907" @"Forum Moderator.4372" @"Forum Moderator.7963" @"Forum Moderator.2781" @"Forum Moderator.6104"

 

Thank you.

[Pyroatheist.9031]

Speaking from a WvW perspective...

 

The EM change is pretty dumb, but that's about it. CoR changes are excellent, that skill has been busted for a long time and needs adjustment. The FB book 2 changes are excellent, the sustain on that has been really busted since PoF. With the nerfs it'll still be excellent, just less potent. The scourge changes are also excellent, it's been far too strong for a long time. Basically the WvW meta has been held up with busted pressure from scourges/revs and busted sustain from firebrands in a state of semi-balance, but when either group doesn't stack enough of both, it collapses with no questions asked. It's kinda balanced but still unhealthy. These changes are a step in a good direction.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

> @"Pyroatheist.9031" said:

> Speaking from a WvW perspective...

>

> The EM change is pretty dumb, but that's about it. CoR changes are excellent, that skill has been busted for a long time and needs adjustment. The FB book 2 changes are excellent, the sustain on that has been really busted since PoF. With the nerfs it'll still be excellent, just less potent. The scourge changes are also excellent, it's been far too strong for a long time. Basically the WvW meta has been held up with busted pressure from scourges/revs and busted sustain from firebrands in a state of semi-balance, but when either group doesn't stack enough of both, it collapses with no questions asked. It's kinda balanced but still unhealthy. These changes are a step in a good direction.

 

Too be fair, the EM change (with it the 4 second duration is too long) is welcome, people just mindlessly spamming dodges due to all the food, energy sigils and everything they have gets rather tiresome. The CoR change pretty much removes Rev from WvW. Its all they were good at, you see a roamer where or there but most struggle against pretty much any Condi build and if they arent Herald. They are dead. Renegade is just woeful and the changes to that make no difference at it, it sucked before. It will suck after.

 

Hammer Revs and Scourges have the same problem. Overly strong in groups and zergs, pretty weak to useless when solo. Firebrand (and ALL heal spam builds...) are in MUCH need of having their SELF healing nerfed. Want to heal groups? Fine. But the amount they can heal themselves is just too much. That is why "heal" Rev with Ventari is balanced because most (if not all!?) of its healing increasing traits only affect healing done to allies and not themselves

 

I am FULLY expecting they are holding out on the full nerfs to Mesmer. Therre is NO way that the listed ones are the only changes that are going to be made. What i find hilarious (in a bad way...) is the buff to Heartseeker, so they want to remove passive gameplay? Thats good, But happy for mindless spamming of attacks? Heartseeker needed a nerf to damage done above the 50% and 75% health, taking like 7k damage from a single HS when you arent even (before the attack...) low on health leads them to just spam it even more :/

 

The changes are a start. Glad that CoR is getting nerfed but it needs help with Renegade, shortbow, condition removal to name but a few.

[zealex.9410]

I feel like the way they went about dealing with passive traits or skills and EM is pretty bad.

 

They should honestly rework then in all gamemodes and give us more interesting options.

 

Ori suggested how EM should be handled so i wont go i to detail but thibgs like the warrior/engi passive trait procs should be reworked on all modes.

[Pyroatheist.9031]

> @"ArmageddonAsh.6430" said:

 

> Too be fair, the EM change (with it the 4 second duration is too long) is welcome, people just mindlessly spamming dodges due to all the food, energy sigils and everything they have gets rather tiresome. The CoR change pretty much removes Rev from WvW. Its all they were good at, you see a roamer where or there but most struggle against pretty much any Condi build and if they arent Herald. They are dead. Renegade is just woeful and the changes to that make no difference at it, it sucked before. It will suck after.

 

Ok no. Hammer rev is still going to be the go-to power dps class for WvW. This change will absolutely not "remove rev from WvW", that's hilariously wrong. They just won't be 1shotting anything that isn't full tank anymore.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

> @"Pyroatheist.9031" said:

> Ok no. Hammer rev is still going to be the go-to power dps class for WvW. This change will absolutely not "remove rev from WvW", that's hilariously wrong. They just won't be 1shotting anything that isn't full tank anymore.

 

Hammer Rev is only used in groups and blobds and only used to spam 1 skill over and over again. Its terrible at roaming. Outside of Hammer Rev is just pretty bad (excluding Herald) Who gets one shot!? Even in zerk gear i have never been 1 hit by them lol

 

[Jace al Thor.6745]

> @"ArmageddonAsh.6430" said:

> > @"Pyroatheist.9031" said:

> > Ok no. Hammer rev is still going to be the go-to power dps class for WvW. This change will absolutely not "remove rev from WvW", that's hilariously wrong. They just won't be 1shotting anything that isn't full tank anymore.

>

> Hammer Rev is only used in groups and blobds and only used to spam 1 skill over and over again. Its terrible at roaming. Outside of Hammer Rev is just pretty bad (excluding Herald) Who gets one shot!? Even in zerk gear i have never been 1 hit by them lol

>

 

Yeah but roaming isn’t supported, neither are 1v1’s, in WvW so they’ll still be good in what is a supported game mode- zergs and PvD

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

> @"Jace al Thor.6745" said:

> Yeah but roaming isn’t supported, neither are 1v1’s, in WvW so they’ll still be good in what is a supported game mode- zergs and PvD

 

It doesnt matter if its "not supported" it still happens. So it works in the main "target" of the mode, mostly as they clearly wanted all the PvP players that dont mindlessly press all the buttons in blobs and zergs to play their dreadful S/TPvP mode and wanted WvW to be left to the mindless hordes :/

 

 

[Pyroatheist.9031]

> @"ArmageddonAsh.6430" said:

> > @"Pyroatheist.9031" said:

> > Ok no. Hammer rev is still going to be the go-to power dps class for WvW. This change will absolutely not "remove rev from WvW", that's hilariously wrong. They just won't be 1shotting anything that isn't full tank anymore.

>

> Hammer Rev is only used in groups and blobds and only used to spam 1 skill over and over again. Its terrible at roaming. Outside of Hammer Rev is just pretty bad (excluding Herald) Who gets one shot!? Even in zerk gear i have never been 1 hit by them lol

>

 

Hammer Rev is excellent in ~8s all the way up to omniblobs and everything in between. That's also a gross oversimplification of what Rev does. It has high damage on hammer 1,2,3, and 5. It has excellent ranged cc with hammer 5. It has excellent mobility and survivability with mallyx swap and glint heal. It has panic buttons for mobility and defense on staff weapon swap. It helps provide might and fury group upkeep. It does all of these in a package where the dps is extremely reliable and effective.

 

A minor damage nerf isn't going to change how effective Rev is, and roaming balance is literally (like actually literally) the last possible priority for the anet balance team because of how incredibly volatile any fight is.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

> @"Pyroatheist.9031" said:

> Hammer Rev is excellent in ~8s all the way up to omniblobs and everything in between. That's also a gross oversimplification of what Rev does. It has high damage on hammer 1,2,3, and 5. It has excellent ranged cc with hammer 5. It has excellent mobility and survivability with mallyx swap and glint heal. It has panic buttons for mobility and defense on staff weapon swap. It helps provide might and fury group upkeep. It does all of these in a package where the dps is extremely reliable and effective.

>

> A minor damage nerf isn't going to change how effective Rev is, and roaming balance is literally (like actually literally) the last possible priority for the anet balance team because of how incredibly volatile any fight is.

 

Theres a reason VERY few people use hammer when roaming (and those that do are likely running to their blob...) It doesnt matter if the game is or isnt balanced around that. The mode HAS them. So you dont just ignore the one area that the mode is balanced around and say that its still going to be strong because in the one area that its "supported" it might still be taken, which would be down to just how face roll easy it is (like most ranged weapons when blobbing)

 

Rev when it comes to WvW is used mostly for Hammer spamming in Blobs and zergs, rarely see roaming or anything. You say it doesnt batter because its "not supported" i would say that is wrong. Roaming and small fights still happen, and iirc isnt the "balance" done around 5 Vs 5 and not blobs anyway? Even in 5 Vs 5 i would say people that know what they are doing, the Rev loses most of his threat using Hammer.

 

 

[Jace al Thor.6745]

> @"ArmageddonAsh.6430" said:

> > @"Pyroatheist.9031" said:

> > Hammer Rev is excellent in ~8s all the way up to omniblobs and everything in between. That's also a gross oversimplification of what Rev does. It has high damage on hammer 1,2,3, and 5. It has excellent ranged cc with hammer 5. It has excellent mobility and survivability with mallyx swap and glint heal. It has panic buttons for mobility and defense on staff weapon swap. It helps provide might and fury group upkeep. It does all of these in a package where the dps is extremely reliable and effective.

> >

> > A minor damage nerf isn't going to change how effective Rev is, and roaming balance is literally (like actually literally) the last possible priority for the anet balance team because of how incredibly volatile any fight is.

>

> Theres a reason VERY few people use hammer when roaming (and those that do are likely running to their blob...) It doesnt matter if the game is or isnt balanced around that. The mode HAS them. So you dont just ignore the one area that the mode is balanced around and say that its still going to be strong because in the one area that its "supported" it might still be taken, which would be down to just how face roll easy it is (like most ranged weapons when blobbing)

>

> Rev when it comes to WvW is used mostly for Hammer spamming in Blobs and zergs, rarely see roaming or anything. You say it doesnt batter because its "not supported" i would say that is wrong. Roaming and small fights still happen, and iirc isnt the "balance" done around 5 Vs 5 and not blobs anyway? Even in 5 Vs 5 i would say people that know what they are doing, the Rev loses most of his threat using Hammer.

>

>

 

PvP has 1v1’s but it’s not balanced around those. It’s balanced around 5v5. WvW has people PvD’ing doors but it’s not balanced around that either. Until recently, the entire game has been balanced around 5v5. Its going to take a while and a lot more balance patches to get each mode clicking separately from each other but with the upcoming patch(which will be a month or more away) it’s a step.

Rev will still have a place in WvW. It’s not roaming tough luck. But it still has a place with hammer, I know of a few guild groups that run Ventari heal/support revs, and considering how much s cluster fuck rev is from the ground up that’s a good thing. Until Rev under goes a complete rework it’ll never be “good”, just mediocre. The entire premise behind the energy bar just doesn’t fit in Gw2. It really needs to be replaced or go back to the original design with one weapon and swapable legends.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

> @"Jace al Thor.6745" said:

> Rev will still have a place in WvW. It’s not roaming tough luck. But it still has a place with hammer, I know of a few guild groups that run Ventari heal/support revs, and considering how much s cluster kitten rev is from the ground up that’s a good thing. Until Rev under goes a complete rework it’ll never be “good”, just mediocre. The entire premise behind the energy bar just doesn’t fit in Gw2. It really needs to be replaced or go back to the original design with one weapon and swapable legends.

 

What about those that dont want to run hammer? God i hate that weapon. So boring to use but Rev doesnt really offer much else. Even Venatri/Heal Revs arent anywhere near as good as the other ACTUAL healers. Rev is just example of bad design. Base rev is woeful, Herald is stronger than Base and Renegade in everyway, renegade is just dreadfully designed, poorly balanced. The class has serious issues with conditions that boarder on the comical, thinking that increasing the Dwarf heal removal from 3 to 5 wont do anything to help it

 

The class is just too poorly designed and balanced for balance tweaks to be enough. Just look at Mal they GUTTED the design before it even got released and then did a half hearted job at "fixing" it, all they did was remove all the cool parts of what made Mal seem really cool and thats it.

 

 

[Pyroatheist.9031]

> @"ArmageddonAsh.6430" said:

> > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said:

> > Rev will still have a place in WvW. It’s not roaming tough luck. But it still has a place with hammer, I know of a few guild groups that run Ventari heal/support revs, and considering how much s cluster kitten rev is from the ground up that’s a good thing. Until Rev under goes a complete rework it’ll never be “good”, just mediocre. The entire premise behind the energy bar just doesn’t fit in Gw2. It really needs to be replaced or go back to the original design with one weapon and swapable legends.

>

> What about those that dont want to run hammer? God i hate that weapon. So boring to use but Rev doesnt really offer much else.

 

Then don't play Rev, but don't whine about it. That's like complaining that mesmer mainland sword is boring so you don't want to use it but everyone keeps kicking you for trying to use scepter instead. Not every part of every class is always going to be good, and that's just the way it is.

[kodesh.2851]

What's the source for these new changes? I keep hearing talk of the elusive mind nerf and some other nerfs to holo, scourge, acro thi etc, but can't find any real info.

[Jace al Thor.6745]

> @"kodesh.2851" said:

> What's the source for these new changes? I keep hearing talk of the elusive mind nerf and some other nerfs to holo, scourge, acro thi etc, but can't find any real info.

 

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/29806/upcoming-mesmer-wvw-pvp-skill-split/p1

 

This is the thread about Mesmer nerfs with a think to the main thread posted in the PvP forum by Gaile. The patch will be at least a month out, maybe more and will affect PvP and WvW only.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

> @"Pyroatheist.9031" said:

> Then don't play Rev, but don't whine about it. That's like complaining that mesmer mainland sword is boring so you don't want to use it but everyone keeps kicking you for trying to use scepter instead. Not every part of every class is always going to be good, and that's just the way it is.

 

Oh right. Silly me. Its perfectly GOOD to be pigeonholed into a single weapon for all game modes, all situations, all builds? Yeah that ISNT at all a sign of something being wrong. Also, cant really compared it to sword or Scepter. Why? They are BOTH great weapons for the builds they are used in (well, maybe not scepter until they fix the lost damage from Confusion nerf but it was also a great weapon in hybrid and power builds. The same cant be said for Rev 1 Ranged weapon. By far the strongest (best?) ranged weapon in the game for its sheer unbalanced damage it does but it is also the strongest weapon Rev have. All of the others have many issues or weaknesses.

 

You shouldnt be punished for not wanting to use a specific weapon. It shouldnt be a case of "you want to use that brokenly strong weapon because the others are average at best, then dont play the class at all" Saying the class can ONLY have one role, that being mindless hammer spam in Zergs isn't right - why? Because no other class has that. What other class has one build, 1 weapon to use in WvW? Sure, you will get the VERY few roamers but they are few and far between because Rev just sucks at the moment. I am more than happy for them to nerf Hammer. But they also need to look to improve the rest of the class because other than mindlessly spamming Hammer in Zergs, Rev has no place in WvW