I cant find something worth doing

[Offair.2563]

> @"Odinens.5920" said:

> Yeah, WvW is broken for me too. When 40-50% of people in a zerg are scourges there's something wrong. Not been having fun since PoF launched. I even recently took a 2 week break from it, and actually had a lot of fun running around doing PvE stuff.

 

You see Mike O Brien was right with his "If you are into wvw you surely love pve" statement. I too have more fun wiping in pve raids then shitty wvw with scourges and 1 shot mechanics. jaja listen to the sounds around you and pre dodge or run away yeye.

[Leo G.4501]

> @"Land of Cheese.2584" said:

> > @"Leo G.4501" said:

> > > @"maxx.1279" said:

> > > I don't care which solution would happen I named solutions.

> > > The fact that all specs are not baseline is the source of the problem.

> > > and for the people philosophizing on golds value. it is a currency which represents value or worth. it can be traded for other currency. if you did so outside the game spending that in gems would be considered support. a higher price for gems attracts more gem purchases.

> > > I don't look at it one way or the other, but in the end you are selling your time to another player its little different than a job. you do not get the reward from that time

> > > some one else is wearing my legendary I got their cash and spent it on the game.

> > > its a glass half empty half full thing. but unrelated to the issue of weather a game is working. i could buy the xpacs, but then I would face foes who play for free and they would be disadvantaged. I am not interested in an unfair fight. So I wont support it.

> >

> > And that's an important argument to make. As far as I've known, all players have established a consensus that gems' worth is relative to actual money regardless of how those gems are obtained because "someone somewhere had to pay cash for those gems", many have said.

> >

> > This is the 1st time I've seen posters here disassociating gems from actual money in a way that equates gems to "fake money". For the longest, players have argued the gem prices of items, bundles and content. As a player who has already purchased all the expansions at the highest possible edition, I literally do not care if someone else buys access to expansion areas/elite specs with gems (you'd obviously prohibit higher edition purchases with gems as those editions are usually bundled with gems...), especially if said access was granted months and months after the initial release.

> >

> > If we're going to completely divorce gems from "real money", then the same must be done for every ludicrous argument regarding anything gem store related, and there are a lot of them.

>

> I'm not really sure what you're getting at here but I suspect it has to do with some unrelated issue you feel Anet needs to address regarding the gem store. The bottom line in this discussion is that Anet wants cash in exchange for providing an expansion. Using gold to gems to "purchase" an expansion does not leave Anet with more cash on hand. This guy wants expansions without paying cash. The "value" of gems is completely irrelevant. Anet cannot pay the bills with gems. They can with cash.

 

What I'm getting at is statements saying that gems are fake money are either incorrect or hypocritical. It's not about another issue, it's about the consensus that gems must be purchased with cash. This is not debatable.

 

Whether it's ok to sell expansion content or specs for gems is a decision for Anet to make but accusing players of wanting free stuff is a false accusations.

 

Do not deflect the argument.

[Land of Cheese.2584]

> @"Leo G.4501" said:

> > @"Land of Cheese.2584" said:

> > > @"Leo G.4501" said:

> > > > @"maxx.1279" said:

> > > > I don't care which solution would happen I named solutions.

> > > > The fact that all specs are not baseline is the source of the problem.

> > > > and for the people philosophizing on golds value. it is a currency which represents value or worth. it can be traded for other currency. if you did so outside the game spending that in gems would be considered support. a higher price for gems attracts more gem purchases.

> > > > I don't look at it one way or the other, but in the end you are selling your time to another player its little different than a job. you do not get the reward from that time

> > > > some one else is wearing my legendary I got their cash and spent it on the game.

> > > > its a glass half empty half full thing. but unrelated to the issue of weather a game is working. i could buy the xpacs, but then I would face foes who play for free and they would be disadvantaged. I am not interested in an unfair fight. So I wont support it.

> > >

> > > And that's an important argument to make. As far as I've known, all players have established a consensus that gems' worth is relative to actual money regardless of how those gems are obtained because "someone somewhere had to pay cash for those gems", many have said.

> > >

> > > This is the 1st time I've seen posters here disassociating gems from actual money in a way that equates gems to "fake money". For the longest, players have argued the gem prices of items, bundles and content. As a player who has already purchased all the expansions at the highest possible edition, I literally do not care if someone else buys access to expansion areas/elite specs with gems (you'd obviously prohibit higher edition purchases with gems as those editions are usually bundled with gems...), especially if said access was granted months and months after the initial release.

> > >

> > > If we're going to completely divorce gems from "real money", then the same must be done for every ludicrous argument regarding anything gem store related, and there are a lot of them.

> >

> > I'm not really sure what you're getting at here but I suspect it has to do with some unrelated issue you feel Anet needs to address regarding the gem store. The bottom line in this discussion is that Anet wants cash in exchange for providing an expansion. Using gold to gems to "purchase" an expansion does not leave Anet with more cash on hand. This guy wants expansions without paying cash. The "value" of gems is completely irrelevant. Anet cannot pay the bills with gems. They can with cash.

>

> What I'm getting at is statements saying that gems are fake money are either incorrect or hypocritical. It's not about another issue, it's about the consensus that gems must be purchased with cash. This is not debatable.

>

> Whether it's ok to sell expansion content or specs for gems is a decision for Anet to make but accusing players of wanting free stuff is a false accusations.

>

> Do not deflect the argument.

I'm not deflecting the argument, you are. There are two thrusts to your argument. First, you claim that there is some sort of consensus that people "must" buy gems with cash. Secondly, you're wanting to get into some debate about the value of someone's time spent farming gold and then converting it to gems, versus the dollar value of someone whipping out their credit card and just outright buying them.

 

There is no consensus that people must use cash to buy gems. The consensus is that people must use cash to buy the expansions. I add that it's my opinion that ArenaNet does not offer the expansions for gems because that allows people to obtain them without handing over some cash.

 

As to the value of gems, you feel that if people are going to equate gems and cash, then it follows that gold is also "same as cash" because it, too, can be used to purchase gems. Therefore if someone converts gold to gems, they are paying an _equivalent_ to "real money" and therefore aren't getting their purchase for free, _and that it's wrong to accuse them of such_.

 

This is **nonsense**.

 

Here's something more concrete that illustrates this point. Take a look at this picture. It's a $3 off coupon from some fun park in Canada (and I assure you the picture is completely safe for work!).

 

http://www.sceniccaves.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Parents-Canada-3-off.jpg

 

Read the last line of the small print.

 

You can use that coupon as an "equivalent" to $3 of "cash" when purchasing a ticket. But the coupon itself? It has just as much value as your gold when you use that gold to buy gems. "No cash value." The fact that you can use it _like_ cash does not equate it _to_ cash. If you do not pay cash for an expansion, you've gotten it for free. This guy does not want to pay cash for an expansion. **He wants it for free**.

[maxx.1279]

> @"Land of Cheese.2584" said:

 

> This is **nonsense**.

 

I agree with you what you said is nonsense

 

I was not making the argument that gold is cash. Nether was Leo G. (I think)

Gems are bought they represent cash. If that person decides to spend them on gold that was a product that was purchased with cash, cash which went to the game. The currency which represents cash is then spent by that person effecting the completion of a cash purchase. As actually spending them is the only way to eliminate the liability of their purchase. (the fact that something is owed by the game)

 

I am not concerned about consensus, because I do not think consensus is a valid argument otherwise likes Would mean you won. Which it does not, that would require that every one be informed on economics and business instead of liking the person who supports their interests. Which is why I originally said this is a mater of how you see it to avoid it being a sticking point. As I was not concerned with money, but fair gameplay.

 

 

(added:) and if you at this point are still misrepresenting what I said by saying I "want a free expansion" don't expect another response from me. it is already addressed in the thread.

 

[Leo G.4501]

> @"Land of Cheese.2584" said:

> I'm not deflecting the argument, you are. There are two thrusts to your argument. First, you claim that there is some sort of consensus that people "must" buy gems with cash.

 

There is a consensus there. It has been stated and restated and confirmed, gems traded in the exchange were purchased with cash.

 

> @"Land of Cheese.2584" said:

>Secondly, you're wanting to get into some debate about the value of someone's time spent farming gold and then converting it to gems, versus the dollar value of someone whipping out their credit card and just outright buying them.

 

I am not making that claim nor am I debating that topic. I'm merely arguing against the notion that purchasing items with gems = free or that the OP has claimed to wanting to get things "for free".

 

> @"Land of Cheese.2584" said:

> There is no consensus that people must use cash to buy gems. The consensus is that people must use cash to buy the expansions.

 

These are facts, not really consensus. The reason I used the term "consensus" previously was to bring to light the opposing statement that gems are "fake money" when, in contrast, things have been argued diliberately claiming that cash shop items and prices are linked to actual cash flow. I didn't want to outright state that the claim that gems are "fake money" was wrong because I was using the false claim in satire across multiple threads.

 

It is a fact that, barring specific limited in-game rewards, most if not all gems used to fuel the exchange are purchased with real money.

 

It is also a fact that the only option to get the expansion is out-of-game cash purchases.

 

> @"Land of Cheese.2584" said:

> As to the value of gems, you feel that if people are going to equate gems and cash, then it follows that gold is also "same as cash" because it, too, can be used to purchase gems. Therefore if someone converts gold to gems, they are paying an _equivalent_ to "real money" and therefore aren't getting their purchase for free, _and that it's wrong to accuse them of such_.

 

False.

 

Gold has no actual value. The gems to gold exchange gives that gold its value, not the gold itself. Basically, without gems, gold has no legal worth (barring rmt) so it isn't "same as cash" unless you break the ToS of the game.

 

As for the rest, again, it is up to Anet to decide HOW one obtains their content.

 

> @"Land of Cheese.2584" said:

> This is **nonsense**.

>

> Here's something more concrete that illustrates this point. Take a look at this picture. It's a $3 off coupon from some fun park in Canada (and I assure you the picture is completely safe for work!).

>

> http://www.sceniccaves.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Parents-Canada-3-off.jpg

>

> Read the last line of the small print.

>

> You can use that coupon as an "equivalent" to $3 of "cash" when purchasing a ticket. But the coupon itself? It has just as much value as your gold when you use that gold to buy gems. "No cash value." The fact that you can use it _like_ cash does not equate it _to_ cash. If you do not pay cash for an expansion, you've gotten it for free. This guy does not want to pay cash for an expansion. **He wants it for free**.

 

The closest parallel this has to GW2's gold-to-gems is that Anet controls the exchange rate, i.e. if they so choose, they can artifically change the value of gold/gem or gem/gold to suit their purpose but your coupon example doesn't state where it came from or how it is aquired so if someone is just passing them out or you can just print one off, there is no value linked to it. Not only that, but the coupon is a DISCOUNT, not actual $3; that is, you can't go and buy a hotdog inside the park with this coupon, only save on an already existing entry fee. It has no similarities to GW2's exchange.

 

EDIT: Just to clarify, if we *were* trying to make your coupon example more relatable to GW2's exchange, you would have to *buy* those coupons with cash (like a token) and then be able to purchase anything within the theme park with those tokens. That'd be as far as you can take the example while still making sense due to other legal issues, criminal activity, counterfeiting and so forth but since Anet have more control over its players than physical people wandering around a theme park, you *could* take it further if they so desired.

[maxx.1279]

> @"Leo G.4501" said:

 

> The closest parallel this has to GW2's gold-to-gems is that Anet controls the exchange rate, i.e. if they so choose, they can artifically change the value of gold/gem or gem/gold to suit their purpose but your coupon example doesn't state where it came from or how it is aquired so if someone is just passing them out or you can just print one off, there is no value linked to it.

 

Is any one disputing that the current price is a hefty sum of gold to acquire for the compensation? Roughly 22 hours of in game farming for the average player for 800gems?

I would like to see the numbers on an exchange where you were printing one currency to lower another in this way if it was true. Because you would be decreasing gem sales for cash to increase the amount of gems acquired for gold. Why would you lower your profit?

And even if that were the case it would be their choice to do so. and not represent the value to the purchaser. This sounds more like a conspiracy theory. That gems are some how fake and cash goes into the twilight zone.

[Derenek.8931]

It could be worse. Play some Black Desert and you'll really know what a pointless grind feels like. I do feel you on this whole topic though. I havent played GW and felt like I had an actual goal to do anything in years.

[Majirah.5089]

> @"maxx.1279" said:

> > @"Leo G.4501" said:

> > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > It's another "expansion = p2w" thread. Move along.

> > >

> > > 

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > The only problem with this is the context of that meme that Obi Wan used Mind Trick to deceive you to let them pass and go about their business. So who is Obi Wan in this context?

>

> The people pretending this isn't an issue? I would say.

> Especially considering that there are enough pay to win threads to warrant this comment. very ironic.

 

All of the pay to win threads are also refuted by many people given the general nature of mmos. Paying for an expansion is not pay to win. It’s buying the full game. You don’t have the full game. It’s not surprising you can’t find anything to do. You can’t expect a game to stagnate for 5+ years because you don’t want it to change.

 

You don’t want to buy the expansions that’s fine, but that doesn’t make gw2 pay to win. All the p2w posts just scream: “I want everything for free”

 

Edit: My annoyance with the p2w complaint aside. I hope you do end up getting the expansions as they are very enjoyable and offer more than just the elite specs. It may very well rekindle your enjoyment of the game.