Weaver fire/air - 48k dps

[Aomine.5012]

I'm surprised by the comment section of Ele.

 

While rangers were happy to reach 36k dps with Soulbeast, Ele is complaining about 48k is not enough/ situational/ whatever reason.

As if other dps specs highest dps are not situational?

Some requires stationary target, some requires complicated movement maneuver (Daredevil).

Most of the dps specs benchmarks are unrealistic in the first place, so reaching 48k in a vacuum situation is very impressive .

[Bratec.7136]

Can ArenaNet please look at this? We already have in LFGs many list DPS only as Ele/DH for highlvl group content. Drastically increase damage even more, is it intended?

[Skuzz.6580]

> @Bratec.7136 said:

> Can ArenaNet please look at this? We already have in LFGs many list DPS only as Ele/DH for highlvl group content. Drastically increase damage even more, is it intended?

 

Conclusion, find a guild and do that content yourself with any group setup you like.

No content in this game requires a full group of 30k+ dps..

[Nephalem.8921]

> @Skuzz.6580 said:

> > @Bratec.7136 said:

> > Can ArenaNet please look at this? We already have in LFGs many list DPS only as Ele/DH for highlvl group content. Drastically increase damage even more, is it intended?

>

> Conclusion, find a guild and do that content yourself with any group setup you like.

> No content in this game requires a full group of 30k+ dps..

 

Why would you take the 32k dps holosmith if you could take weaver instead for a raid?

There is no reason to run someting else than ele for the dps spots in fractals now. Add tempest defense and impact sigil on top of it. Which build can compete?

You can't defend this numbers.

[Feanor.2358]

Source for the 32k holo?

[Nephalem.8921]

> @Feanor.2358 said:

> Source for the 32k holo?

 

Not sure if griever stats would work but forge is undertuned. You can reach like 34k with condi but so can core engi.

Holo forge aa is lower than thief staff and limited by heat.

Try holosmith yourself. Nice for open world but lacks damage for fractals and raids.

This abomination of weaver needs a fast nerf. Too many modifier on traits.

[Feanor.2358]

Yeah, but the rotation... who would choose to inflict that on himself if it didn't give a reasonable advantage? Not saying the current state is reasonable, just that I'd like to see a properly rewarding high skill ceiling build in the game.

[mygamingid.5816]

We need to be careful about confusing all Power Eles with Large Hitbox Golem Fully-Supported Power Eles. Multi-hit AOEs destroy large targets and Ele has a ton of them - far more than any other class. They may tear through the golem and large-hitbox raid bosses (assuming they have uptime on all the boons and condis they need), but that's where the party ends. If you put those same builds against a small-hitbox target, they became trash tier instantly.

 

They're particularly worthless in WvW and PvP and even have issues with simple open world PvE (pocket raptors, anyone?), because they're full glass cannons that need a ton of support to reach those numbers. They get that support in raids and possibly in other PvE, particularly fractals, if they can get a team to support them.

 

To put this another way: large-hitbox, fully-supported, power-based dps is what Eles are built to do. That defines the profession's "purity of purpose." If nerfs are happening, they should focus on the multi-hit AOEs against single large targets, not anything else, because that's where the damage is.

[Feanor.2358]

I can assure you, staff Weaver is far from trash tier against any target. It's obviously going to be stronger against large hitboxes, but the amount of AOEs you can produce makes it a beast. It's a pretty potent backline caster in WvW, too. It's useless for roaming and for PvP, that's true. But it is very strong everywhere else.

[Enigmoid.1264]

There are two issues. Traits and weapon skills.

Weaver traits are very strong with a huge number of damage multipliers. Obviously this is so that Weaver can be the dps option and tempest the support.

Traits are more or less fine.

 

The issue is with weapon skills. Staff has a number of very strong weapon skills (the dual skills are really good) making staff absolute insane. Sword has very weak weapon skills making it rather poor (multipliers don't work well on a small base value). These numbers need to be tweaked. To avoid gutting core staff ele the dual attacks on staff need to be toned down (like 30-40% less damage on the dual attacks).

 

As well please Anet nerf conjures first. Specifically change conjures so that you don't get an additional copy. In benchmarks such as these you can pick up the second conjure but in most cases, and with less good players, that second conjure is not getting picked up. Conjures make the class look good on the golem but don't increase damage as much in real life.

 

And also please remember these are laboratory benchmarks. There is no pressure or healing needed, no mechanics to avoid, boss is not moving, ... In real life situations ele dps drops off far faster than other classes due to low health (scholar uptime), and dependance on non-moving targets. If you don't have a healer/druid and a chrono, ele dps really drops relative to other classes. Staff weaver should not be this good, but it should be the uncontested laboratory golem benchmark king.

 

[mygamingid.5816]

> @Feanor.2358 said:

> I can assure you, staff Weaver is far from trash tier against any target. It's obviously going to be stronger against large hitboxes, but the amount of AOEs you can produce makes it a beast. It's a pretty potent backline caster in WvW, too. It's useless for roaming and for PvP, that's true. But it is very strong everywhere else.

 

27k DPS with full raid meta boons is definitely trash tier. The damage is all in the AOEs on large hitboxes. It'll be better with Weaver, though.

[Sunshine.5014]

Weaver is trash in Raid now. It's Guardian time (without having to rely on big target too).

 

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/3992/46-59k-dps-brace-yourselves-for-the-inevitable-nerf-sledgehammer#latest

[RabbitUp.8294]

37k condi weaver on small hitbox

 

[mygamingid.5816]

> @Lalainnia.3598 said:

> Love how half the weaver comments before a golem were saying weaver would have awful dps.

 

I was one of the people who wasn't sure and it far overshot my expectations. We can now definitively state that Overloads are not necessary for Ele DPS.

[Feanor.2358]

> @mygamingid.5816 said:

> > @Feanor.2358 said:

> > I can assure you, staff Weaver is far from trash tier against any target. It's obviously going to be stronger against large hitboxes, but the amount of AOEs you can produce makes it a beast. It's a pretty potent backline caster in WvW, too. It's useless for roaming and for PvP, that's true. But it is very strong everywhere else.

>

> 27k DPS with full raid meta boons is definitely trash tier. The damage is all in the AOEs on large hitboxes. It'll be better with Weaver, though.

 

27k is staff Tempest. Weaver will be much higher than that, because:

1. Staff Weaver is way ahead than staff Tempest on large hitboxes.

2. Weaver doesn't have more skills affected by hitbox than Tempest.

[Frenk.5917]

Why is everyone actually surprised by this? Weaver benchmarks have been published even during the beta and they were outdpsing Tempests even then. And even without a benchmark, would you please just take a look at all the modifiers that traitline has? It was expected for Weaver to obliterate old benchmarks. It's gonna get nerfed, but not much, and not all at once.

 

> @Feanor.2358 said:

> > @mygamingid.5816 said:

> > > @Feanor.2358 said:

> > > I can assure you, staff Weaver is far from trash tier against any target. It's obviously going to be stronger against large hitboxes, but the amount of AOEs you can produce makes it a beast. It's a pretty potent backline caster in WvW, too. It's useless for roaming and for PvP, that's true. But it is very strong everywhere else.

> >

> > 27k DPS with full raid meta boons is definitely trash tier. The damage is all in the AOEs on large hitboxes. It'll be better with Weaver, though.

>

> 27k is staff Tempest. Weaver will be much higher than that, because:

> 1. Staff Weaver is way ahead than staff Tempest on large hitboxes.

> 2. Weaver has less skills affected by hitbox size than Tempest (no Overload Air).

 

Staff tempest benchmark is 37k, at the moment.

[Amineo.8951]

48k is good but not realistic in a real raid scenario, Renegade will probably be way better.

[Baseraver.7241]

I just hope they wont nerf Weaver the same way as Power Warrior

 

Please do NOT nerf attunement swap CDs

Reason: Gameplay would feel clunkier.

 

Better nerf Weaver only Skills and Traits in terms of power to get more reasonable numbers.

[Baseraver.7241]

> @mygamingid.5816 said:

> We need to be careful about confusing all Power Eles with Large Hitbox Golem Fully-Supported Power Eles. Multi-hit AOEs destroy large targets and Ele has a ton of them - far more than any other class. They may tear through the golem and large-hitbox raid bosses (assuming they have uptime on all the boons and condis they need), but that's where the party ends. If you put those same builds against a small-hitbox target, they became trash tier instantly.

>

> They're particularly worthless in WvW and PvP and even have issues with simple open world PvE (pocket raptors, anyone?), because they're full glass cannons that need a ton of support to reach those numbers. They get that support in raids and possibly in other PvE, particularly fractals, if they can get a team to support them.

>

> To put this another way: large-hitbox, fully-supported, power-based dps is what Eles are built to do. That defines the profession's "purity of purpose." If nerfs are happening, they should focus on the multi-hit AOEs against single large targets, not anything else, because that's where the damage is.

 

Pocket raptors are easy targets for Ele. Get in range and use a Lava font on yourself and dodge the moment they leap at you. DONE

[Kidel.2057]

how anything different than a flat 50% damage reduction across all skills is going to solve that?

[Feanor.2358]

> @Frenk.5917 said:

> Why is everyone actually surprised by this? Weaver benchmarks have been published even during the beta and they were outdpsing Tempests even then. And even without a benchmark, would you please just take a look at all the modifiers that traitline has? It was expected for Weaver to obliterate old benchmarks. It's gonna get nerfed, but not much, and not all at once.

>

> > @Feanor.2358 said:

> > > @mygamingid.5816 said:

> > > > @Feanor.2358 said:

> > > > I can assure you, staff Weaver is far from trash tier against any target. It's obviously going to be stronger against large hitboxes, but the amount of AOEs you can produce makes it a beast. It's a pretty potent backline caster in WvW, too. It's useless for roaming and for PvP, that's true. But it is very strong everywhere else.

> > >

> > > 27k DPS with full raid meta boons is definitely trash tier. The damage is all in the AOEs on large hitboxes. It'll be better with Weaver, though.

> >

> > 27k is staff Tempest. Weaver will be much higher than that, because:

> > 1. Staff Weaver is way ahead than staff Tempest on large hitboxes.

> > 2. Weaver has less skills affected by hitbox size than Tempest (no Overload Air).

>

> Staff tempest benchmark is 37k, at the moment.

 

Not on small hitbox.

 

Anyway, Firebrand seems to be even more broken, hitting 50k on small hitbox and burn ticks of 80k+. So, ANet, buff Weaveer pls. :lol:

[Agent Noun.7350]

> @Kidel.2057 said:

> how anything different than a flat 50% damage reduction across all skills is going to solve that?

 

Couple things:

 

1. Firebrand is even more insane. It's common for DPS numbers to be inflated against large hitboxes like this, but Firebrand doesn't need that at all to do insane damage with burning.

2. Most of this is coming from how many times Meteor Shower and Ice Storm can hit on a large hitbox. It's why this same build and rotation will do much, _much_ less damage on anything that isn't huge--those multi-hit skills won't hit as many times. Nerfing every skill by 50% would kill Elementalist in all content, period. And unless builds like condi Firebrand get nerfed, too, I can't say I'm in favor of nerfing Elementalist at all. 48k on a large hitbox is a lot less impressive than 52k on a small hitbox.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-5S14W2XyM&t

 

That said, I fully expect everyone to lose their minds over this one Weaver benchmark and totally miss anything else that's drastically overperforming. If I hear a call for Firebrand nerfs I'll be shocked.

[felincyriac.5981]

doesn't seem too bad compared to firebrand doing 50k dps on small hitboxes with a piss-easy rotation

[Ryouzanpaku.1273]

Just because there is another broken spec you should not think weaver is ok... Both weaver and firebrand will get nerfed soon.

[Agent Noun.7350]

> @Ryouzanpaku.1273 said:

> Just because there is another broken spec you should not think weaver is ok... Both weaver and firebrand will get nerfed soon.

 

Yeah, but it's worth putting into perspective.

 

My big worry is that Weaver, as an entire spec, will get nerfed hard when the real issue is one specific build, and even then only against large hitboxes. Specifically, the issue lies in those multi-hit skills like Ice Storm and Meteor Shower and how they can scale out of control with Weaver's traits. But no other weapon even comes _close_ to being this strong for Weaver, especially not against smaller hitboxes, so nerfing the traits themselves would make the other weapons unusable for Weaver. The spec itself doesn't need a nerf--Ice Bow and staff need a nerf.

 

In other words, I'd very much like people to stop saying "nerf Weaver" and focus on the actual problem. It isn't the spec itself--outside of large hitbox staff, it's fine but nothing special--it's large hitbox staff that needs to be reined in.