[Suggestion] Map Completion Rewards adjustment

[RobotInProgress.9782]

> @"kurfu.5623" said:

 

The Black Lion chest is the teaser. You can preview whats in the chest long before you get a key.

And if Anet ran on Key purchases I'd be incredibly concerned.

[ProverbsofHell.2307]

> @"MithranArkanere.8957" said:

> This reminds me of [something I though about before](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/400489/#Comment_400489 "something I though about before").

>

> > @"MithranArkanere.8957" said:

> > What I'd do with those instead is having the enchanted powder NPC also have another conversation to open a different vendor panel that lets you trade amounts of all account bound BL consumables and coin for "Tin Black Lion Keys".

> >

> > These Tin Black Lion Keys would be kind of like the opposite of a Golden Black Lion Chest Key. When used to open BL chests, they would not give the guaranteed items, and would not produce uncommon or better items.

>

> What if there was something similar for maps? A Key that isn't as bad as a Tin key, but that isn't as good as a normal key. But always a key. Call it "Brass Black Lion Key". Maybe have this "Brass Key" have a similar chance to give a normal key when used.

>

> And for cities instead the transmutation charge or a brass key, they would have the Tin key. So we could have:

>

> * Tin keys

> * For completing cities and from trading consumables you don't want at the enchanted powder NPC.

> * Can't give guaranteed items or rare items.

> * Brass keys:

> * For completing other maps.

> * Can't give rare items, but has the same chance to give a normal key as the current chance to get a key from a map.

> * Silver keys

> * The current Black Lion Keys.

> * Golden Keys

> * The current golden BL keys.

> * Guarantees an uncommon or better item.

>

>

 

Now this I really like! A great suggestion.

 

 

[RobotInProgress.9782]

> @"MithranArkanere.8957" said:

I cannot say I agree with the idea of splitting the key up into different types of key as I feel that the current black lion chest pool is pretty diluted and I'm glad they've removed certain consumables from the pool (mainly because I already have a load that I'll probably never use, I think I'm not the only one in that category). Dividing the key up into more types of keys will mean that no one would go for the lower tier key and just buy the higher tier one, not to mention additional backlash because in order to get the items you want you'd have to buy the keys, whereas, the current version at least gives you a chance to the key for a chance at what you want.

 

[MithranArkanere.8957]

> @"RobotInProgress.9782" said:

> > @"MithranArkanere.8957" said:

> I cannot say I agree with the idea of splitting the key up into different types of key as I feel that the current black lion chest pool is pretty diluted and I'm glad they've removed certain consumables from the pool (mainly because I already have a load that I'll probably never use, I think I'm not the only one in that category). Dividing the key up into more types of keys will mean that no one would go for the lower tier key and just buy the higher tier one, not to mention additional backlash because in order to get the items you want you'd have to buy the keys, whereas, the current version at least gives you a chance to the key for a chance at what you want.

>

It's just a way to let them control what each thing can drop. If everything gave the base keys, then the base keys would likely be nerfed.

 

And as I mentioned, the key you'd get from map completion would have the same chance to give a normal key. So you basically get something instead the transmtuation charges that still lets you get charges, but other stuff too if you do not care about any more charges.

[RobotInProgress.9782]

Okay, so I left this topic alone for a while due the issue being streamlined into a different issue regarding black lion keys, the fundamental idea behind this thread was that completing a map and receiving a single transmutation charge was incredibly frustrating after the effort it takes to complete maps and that a key is always the sought after thing from map completion because its offers a variety of better reward,( one of which is 5 transmutation charges,which even then is better than a single charge) and more in general provided you have a chest.

 

It should be noted that I feel Home/City maps as well as Southsun Cove and Lion's Arch should still only provide transmutation charges, but the amount should increase.

 

In my opinion:

* Transmutation Charges should be increased (in regards to map completion) to a similar amount to that found in chests

* Key Drops should be guaranteed from Map Completion

* Switch Transmutation Charges out for a quantity loot bags (but keep key drops as a chance drop)

* Switch out Transmutation Charges for a single Black Lion Statuette

* Make Black Lion Statuette's the map completion drop and introduce the key as something you can buy for statuettes via the vendor (10 statuettes seems somewhat reasonable considering its 50 for a Golden Key)

 

 

Having statuettes as the sole map reward and keys as something you can purchase via the vendor could mean that the amount of statuettes you get from a map completion may vary. I would suggest in this regard that it be 3-5 statuettes per completion, this way it takes at least 2 to 4 maps to be completed for a key and people have the option to purchase other things (such as **2 transmutation charges** ). Keys would still be bought in store as they provide a chance at more than one thing, a guaranteed special monthly item (e.g. Olmakhan Salvaging Pouch) and provide you with things you cannot obtain via the statuette system (such as Mini Branded Mounts Pack or the Fire-Breathing Package), not to mention the chances at varying skins and the ever elusive Permanent/Endless Contracts.

 

Initially I wrote the guaranteed BL key thought process first, but after coming up with the idea of statuettes being the map completion reward I felt perhaps that idea would give people more of a choice in what they want to get and didn't totally eliminate keys from being a wanted thing as they still have their use and place.

 

Click Spoiler tag for my thought process on the idea of a guaranteed key drop and a few of the issues that would come with it and the perpetual issues with guaranteed key drops,

 

>! _**IF**_ a key drop is guaranteed for map completion then I imagine something could be introduced to prevent farming it, but it wouldn't really stop farming much in the same way people do level 10 story once a week for a "free key" (although I have heard now that people are doing level 40 story key farming).

>! I do feel , however, that map completion takes a lot of work and that it is up to players whether they save their keys for a different BL chest set's drops or spend them immediately.

>! Players don't get to complete the same map more than once so there is a finite amount they can get without starting a new character and going through the effort of map completing. There may be a case where people find the fastest map to do map completion on, but then I feel would be the right time to introduce a daily/weekly limiter on when people can earn their next key, perhaps that is where you go "here is 5/6 transmutation charges for your effort, but you've already earned your key for this week".

>!

>! There are of course knock on effect in regards to Statuettes, where players would be able to get what they wanted a lot easier, and while I feel that some of the prices of the items are high (e.g. immortal weapons crate), with the map completion BL keys the cost should most likely increase for the statuette rewards. It could be that statuettes are removed from a guaranteed drop and are a random drop like everything else.

>!

>! I have checked to see that you can currently obtain 44 keys (one for each map (currently)) per character. Most people I feel will have already completed a chunk of the maps on each character they own, and while 44 keys seems like a lot:

>! * loot from the chest is RNG based

>! * drops rates can be adjusted

>! * Map/world completion can take a long time

>! * They're finite

 

 

I apologise if I have missed anything, but I honestly think that the statuette solution I've provided would be far better than a guaranteed key drop or diluting the map completion rewards with varying types of key and should in no way change the other items you get for map completion (being crafting materials and 2 pieces of equipment).

Tell me what you think!

Do you like the statuette idea as much as I do?

should I have started a new thread or taken this to the reddit?

Do you think a developer is like to give any feedback on the idea or their own take on what I've typed up here?

 

Thanks for reading... hopefully ^^'

[Yosuzume.3892]

I don't feel like we should entirely get a key every single map piece completed. Especially considering some maps are a lot easier than others, and it is a nuisance cause that alone would cause for people to harvest these maps and thus resulting in the change (to definite keys) being changed, or removed outright.

 

Now, I don't exactly agree with fragmented keys either for the same reason stated, however what I feel like would be a good choice would to be increase the current chance of it. Boosting it up to 40% and removing or lessening the chance of Charges (I agree, you can get a load from other aspects of the game. I mean, I still have about 200 charges from my initial bouts of PvP) would be a good start.

 

Expanding upon that notion though, I feel a good middle ground owuld to be have map specific chance modifiers. The harder the map is to complete, or the less frequently it is completed, the higher the chance is (Still never reaching 100%, probably capping at about 75% or less) a good way of doing it. That being said, there needs to be other incentives to do Map Completion, as it's largely ignored other than Gifts of Completion.

 

I liked what you had to say about Statuettes, but having too many changes without first dipping a toe could lead it completely down a path no one wants it too.

[Palador.2170]

I think it would be better to make a list of possible small rewards, on level with the Transmute charges. Then replace the Transmute Charge reward with a box that lets us select which one of those we want. That way there's no increase to the in-game value of the non-key reward, but the choice will allow the player to pick the one that's more valuable to them.

[kurfu.5623]

A guaranteed key for every map completion would create a new key-farm where everyone would just run the starter maps over and over... That's not gonna happen.

[RobotInProgress.9782]

> @"Palador.2170" said:

> I think it would be better to make a list of possible small rewards, on level with the Transmute charges. Then replace the Transmute Charge reward with a box that lets us select which one of those we want. That way there's no increase to the in-game value of the non-key reward, but the choice will allow the player to pick the one that's more valuable to them.

 

Giving people a choice on par with Transmutation charges is why I would push Statuettes as they allow you to decide on you'd want. You would be able to purchase transmutation charges or you can save up for more rewards. :)

[RobotInProgress.9782]

> @"kurfu.5623" said:

> A guaranteed key for every map completion would create a new key-farm where everyone would just run the starter maps over and over... That's not gonna happen.

 

I did go into it in the spoiler tag, but I pretty much talked myself out of it as 44 keys is a lot and farming would be an issue, guaranteed keys would make more problems requiring more in depth solutions which I don't think devs can get into right now.

[Palador.2170]

> @"RobotInProgress.9782" said:

> > @"Palador.2170" said:

> > I think it would be better to make a list of possible small rewards, on level with the Transmute charges. Then replace the Transmute Charge reward with a box that lets us select which one of those we want. That way there's no increase to the in-game value of the non-key reward, but the choice will allow the player to pick the one that's more valuable to them.

>

> Giving people a choice on par with Transmutation charges is why I would push Statuettes as they allow you to decide on you'd want. You would be able to purchase transmutation charges or you can save up for more rewards. :)

 

Sadly, statuettes are more valuable than that. One by itself isn't much, but you can save them up for something bigger. And, as someone else said, I think they want them to stay firmly linked to the Black Lion chests.

[RobotInProgress.9782]

> @"Palador.2170"

 

A single statuette is worth 2 transmutation charges, but it is worth more due to the other items you can get through them.

And while it was said by someone that Arena Net may want to keep statuettes tied to black lion chests, I have not seen any comments from devs saying so, the incorporation of keys being purchasable would mean that they key is not invalidated.

People would probably still do level 10 story farm once a week as it produces a key, but statuettes means you'd be able to save up and buy what you want, or you don't have to if you just want transmutation charges as 2 charges cost 1 statuette. I think Statuettes would be a more versatile reward if they were introduced to map completion.

 

[Kal Spiro.9745]

Stop trying to mess with my transmutation charges. It was bad enough when they changed to transmutations and suddenly I only had one chance to skin level 2-79 per map instead of three. You're not interfering with my guaranteed one per map. You may not need them, but I do, I have a lot of characters, and I keep getting more.

 

Also, considering what they did to keys provided by the first character story block, why would you ever imagine they would make it easier to acquire them. Even if they did this key fragment idea, this would be a renewal of the key farm. Five fragments to a key? There are six cities to map complete, that's a key every hour, probably even less now that we have mounts. What an absurd plan.

[RobotInProgress.9782]

> @"Kal Spiro.9745" said:

> Stop trying to mess with my transmutation charges. It was bad enough when they changed to transmutations and suddenly I only had one chance to skin level 2-79 per map instead of three. You're not interfering with my guaranteed one per map. You may not need them, but I do, I have a lot of characters, and I keep getting more.

>

> Also, considering what they did to keys provided by the first character story block, why would you ever imagine they would make it easier to acquire them. Even if they did this key fragment idea, this would be a renewal of the key farm. Five fragments to a key? There are six cities to map complete, that's a key every hour, probably even less now that we have mounts. What an absurd plan.

 

Firstly, with map completion you do not get enough transmutation charges and that is part of why getting a single one is a disappointment. Getting a key at least gives you a chance at 5, not to mention that they are something you can purchase via wvw, as well as tracks in both wvw and pvp. Statuettes even allow you to buy 2 for a single statuettes. How do you get your supply of transmutation charges? is it literally just through map completion?

 

I am not a fan of dividing up keys into fragments as that would be pretty frustrating, and city maps should be kept as transmutation charge drops only, as they are already (or if not increased in the amount you get), it would be a terrible idea for city maps to provide keys for just that reason, it would be far too easy to farm, hence why the other suggestions we have come up so far have should only apply to the other maps (this also excludes LA and Southsun as well as the cities due to their easy nature of completion).

[Ayrilana.1396]

If you’re going to replace transmutation charges then it should be a like for like. Black Lion keys are a no.

[RobotInProgress.9782]

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> If you’re going to replace transmutation charges then it should be a like for like. Black Lion keys are a no.

 

As I have said to another person, I talked myself out of guaranteed key drops. Transmutation charges should either be increased or replaced with statuettes for map completion, either way you get more transmutation charges but with statuettes you'd at least have the option to save them up or buy 2 transmutation charges.

[Ayrilana.1396]

> @"RobotInProgress.9782" said:

> > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > If you’re going to replace transmutation charges then it should be a like for like. Black Lion keys are a no.

>

> As I have said to another person, I talked myself out of guaranteed key drops. Transmutation charges should either be increased or replaced with statuettes for map completion, either way you get more transmutation charges but with statuettes you'd at least have the option to save them up or buy 2 transmutation charges.

 

Or Anet can just have no charges or keys drop period. There’s no need to change the rewards simply because you dislike one of them. Map completion rewards other items as well.

[RobotInProgress.9782]

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> Or Anet can just have no charges or keys drop period. There’s no need to change the rewards simply because you dislike one of them. Map completion rewards other items as well.

 

Its not that I hate transmutation charges, they have their use and I use them every now and again, but the amount you get for map completion when you get more from a key, or from a statuette is disappointing when you've gone to the effort of completing a map. While other rewards are okay they are not the driving thing that people would want out of completing a map, they are more of an cool little addition, crafting materials are greatly appreciated but the armor can be hit or miss but that is a separate from the main reward being keys and charges.

To remove both would:

1. cause outrage because you've taken away a source of getting keys outside of buying keys

2. that's one less source for transmutation charges altogether outside of WvW and PvP and their respective tracks

3. de-incentivise map completion.

 

Additionally, this is a suggestion thread, so none of what has been discussed has to be implemented, but it would be greatly appreciated if tweaks were made to improve on the system and the rewards it provides. The current rewards are the incentive, but transmutation charges are seen as a lesser reward as the black lion key has more value to players and both keys and statuettes provide more charges than map completion does.

 

[Zaklex.6308]

Here's a suggestion that has nothing to do with offering an idea, instead offering to suggest you add a link to the OTHER discussion you bolded in your OP, that way people wouldn't have to search for the other thread.

[RobotInProgress.9782]

> @"Zaklex.6308" said:

> Here's a suggestion that has nothing to do with offering an idea, instead offering to suggest you add a link to the OTHER discussion you bolded in your OP, that way people wouldn't have to search for the other thread.

 

I am refering to this thread not another thread, I started this thread earlier this year and returned to it the other day with some new suggestions and I am new enough to using the forum that I don't know if its possible to link to a specific post and not have to quote the entirety of the newer post's ideas. What do you think, should I just quote my new thoughts and save people the trouble of reading? and/or should I replace the old, first post with the newer ideas?

[Ayrilana.1396]

> @"RobotInProgress.9782" said:

> > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > Or Anet can just have no charges or keys drop period. There’s no need to change the rewards simply because you dislike one of them. Map completion rewards other items as well.

>

> Its not that I hate transmutation charges, they have their use and I use them every now and again, but the amount you get for map completion when you get more from a key, or from a statuette is disappointing when you've gone to the effort of completing a map. While other rewards are okay they are not the driving thing that people would want out of completing a map, they are more of an cool little addition, crafting materials are greatly appreciated but the armor can be hit or miss but that is a separate from the main reward being keys and charges.

> To remove both would:

> 1. cause outrage because you've taken away a source of getting keys outside of buying keys

> 2. that's one less source for transmutation charges altogether outside of WvW and PvP and their respective tracks

> 3. de-incentivise map completion.

>

> Additionally, this is a suggestion thread, so none of what has been discussed has to be implemented, but it would be greatly appreciated if tweaks were made to improve on the system and the rewards it provides. The current rewards are the incentive, but transmutation charges are seen as a lesser reward as the black lion key has more value to players and both keys and statuettes provide more charges than map completion does.

>

 

Well your initially suggestion was to remove the charges altogether. If they increased the number instead, would that be better?

[RobotInProgress.9782]

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

 

> Well your initially suggestion was to remove the charges altogether. If they increased the number instead, would that be better?

 

That was my initial suggestion when I made this thread a while ago, in my more current statements I have stated that I feel more charges should be given, or statuettes should be given as at least that way you can buy 2 transmutation charges for a single statuettes.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

> @"RobotInProgress.9782" said:

> > @"Zaklex.6308" said:

> > Here's a suggestion that has nothing to do with offering an idea, instead offering to suggest you add a link to the OTHER discussion you bolded in your OP, that way people wouldn't have to search for the other thread.

>

> I am refering to this thread not another thread, I started this thread earlier this year and returned to it the other day with some new suggestions and I am new enough to using the forum that I don't know if its possible to link to a specific post and not have to quote the entirety of the newer post's ideas. What do you think, should I just quote my new thoughts and save people the trouble of reading? and/or should I replace the old, first post with the newer ideas?

 

You can edit your first post to include the new ideas. You can edit your first post to replace the text with your new ideas. You can link to your new posts (copy post address by right-clicking the date/time of the post) within the first post. = )

[RobotInProgress.9782]

> @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:

 

Thank you very much for your assistance, I've linked to the newer post in the original old post :)

 

 

[Kal Spiro.9745]

> @"RobotInProgress.9782" said:

> > @"Kal Spiro.9745" said:

> > Stop trying to mess with my transmutation charges. It was bad enough when they changed to transmutations and suddenly I only had one chance to skin level 2-79 per map instead of three. You're not interfering with my guaranteed one per map. You may not need them, but I do, I have a lot of characters, and I keep getting more.

> >

> > Also, considering what they did to keys provided by the first character story block, why would you ever imagine they would make it easier to acquire them. Even if they did this key fragment idea, this would be a renewal of the key farm. Five fragments to a key? There are six cities to map complete, that's a key every hour, probably even less now that we have mounts. What an absurd plan.

>

> Firstly, with map completion you do not get enough transmutation charges and that is part of why getting a single one is a disappointment. Getting a key at least gives you a chance at 5, not to mention that they are something you can purchase via wvw, as well as tracks in both wvw and pvp. Statuettes even allow you to buy 2 for a single statuettes. How do you get your supply of transmutation charges? is it literally just through map completion?

>

> I am not a fan of dividing up keys into fragments as that would be pretty frustrating, and city maps should be kept as transmutation charge drops only, as they are already (or if not increased in the amount you get), it would be a terrible idea for city maps to provide keys for just that reason, it would be far too easy to farm, hence why the other suggestions we have come up so far have should only apply to the other maps (this also excludes LA and Southsun as well as the cities due to their easy nature of completion).

 

Do you serious think a small chance for five with a significantly larger chance for zero is better than a guaranteed one? It isn't, not at all.