Competitive Dungeons/Fractals/Raids

[Sister Saxifrage.7361]

If it was done like adventures, where there are leaderboards for the top few but also time brackets for everybody, I think it could be okay. So long as neither have significant material rewards. GW1 had time brackets for story missions and it added another layer of goals for people.

 

However. It could be a really bad combination with the coming randomized instabilities. Sure you get bragging videos about "Jazzercise gold speedrun 99CM SA/FV/FB*" but you also get "gold is IMPOSSIBLE this week, so unfair!", "why does it take so long for 99 with SA/FV/FB to come back around, my crew is ready to smash Jazzercise's record NOW, so unfair!", etc.

 

Not to mention "Fractals gold title runs, 50g per frac/100g 87 99 100", "CMs + T4s, exp with full gold title only no necros", "the fractal gold title is so toxic and elitist (why won't the good players carry me instead of leaving me to rot with the other scrubs?)", "HELP I want to get into fractals but I don't? Understand? Anything??? And now THIS has been added?!"

 

...You know what, I think I talked myself out of the idea. Leave it be.

 

*or whatever is agreed upon as the hardest combo. You get the idea.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @"Kundry.1249" said:

> > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > @"Kundry.1249" said:

> > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > > > @"Kundry.1249" said:

> > > > > WoW borrowed heavily from GW2 Fractals for their Mythic+ system (scaling, affixes), and it was a big success. It's GW2's turn to borrow their system: make fractals (effectively) infinitely scalable. T5, T6, T7, etc. With GW2's mechanics and how Fractals are designed, a straightforward scaling of mob hp and damage might not work the way it does in WoW, but I think this would be worth the effort of trying to figure out how to make it work out.

> > > >

> > > > I don't want fractals to become even more elitist cesspool raiders already turned them into. If you like the idea of infinity scaling instances, they should make them for raids so your minor part of community is out of semi-casual content that are fractals.

> > >

> > > You (and I) can stay in T4. Why would the existence of higher tiers make T4 any more elitist than it is (which it isn't)? If anything, the elitists will leave for higher tiers, leaving T4 more casual.

> > >

> > > But at any rate, I should clarify: I didn't mean that T5+ to be the continuation of the existing system. They should be way harder (even compared to the CMs) and the reward system should be distinct from the existing dailies, meant only for the hardcore players.

> > >

> > > Imagine top PvE players having challenging content to stream, like pushing a really high Fractal, inventing new strategies to make it in time.

> >

> > Players already have content to stream. But GW2 is a game nobody wants to watch.

>

> If nobody wants to watch GW2, then clearly there is nothing worth streaming in the game.

 

Bingo

[Eramonster.2718]

> @"Kundry.1249" said:

> WoW borrowed heavily from GW2 Fractals for their Mythic+ system (scaling, affixes), and it was a big success. It's GW2's turn to borrow their system: make fractals (effectively) infinitely scalable. T5, T6, T7, etc. With GW2's mechanics and how Fractals are designed, a straightforward scaling of mob hp and damage might not work the way it does in WoW, but I think this would be worth the effort of trying to figure out how to make it work out.

 

It's the one thing I hope not to see it happen. For fractals, Mistlock instabilities is working fine as it is for giving challenge (instead of the bland more hp & dmg to make it "harder").

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

The short story is that adding competition to clearing times for instanced combat would be attractive for a subset of the small group of people who like speedclearing in the first place. For them, this would be great. For everyone else, it would either have little effect or a negative effect. Considering that this can't be done cheaply, it seems unlikely that it's something worth prioritizing relative to anything else.

 

****

 

> 1. Competitive scenes are the end game of any game.

While it's true that some people love competing in all sorts of arenas; it's not true that the end game for most people is necessarily competitive.

 

> 2. It's not difficult for Arenanet to watch a player's screen and investigate whether they are cheating or not.

If you're talking about a small tournament, maybe. (There are some counter examples, where a hosting studio wasn't aware of cheating.) If you're talking about on a large scale, apparently it's quite difficult.

 

> 3. I have personally spoken with several other players/guilds with run pve content,

That's great. As long as you realize that they only represent a fraction of the population (even discounting the "elitist" subset, which is already a small fraction of the game).

 

> 4. Players were not attracted to the HoT puzzle game leaderboards because the puzzle games are too short/small and become boring after you master them, not to mention the negligent rewards.

I don't think there's evidence supporting the claim that the issue is that they are too short. (Tiny rewards? sure, I don't think even ANet claims otherwise.)

 

> 5. This idea would not disturb general LFG play for dungeons/fractals/raids because the idea here

Of course it would. Anything that affects dungeons/fractals/raids affects everyone who participates to some degree. Even just adding raids to the game changed how people view PvE.

 

> There would be less elitism in the LFGs due to the elites playing with 5 man teams for speed clears, instead of PUGing in the LFG.

It's an interesting theory, but I don't think it's likely to affect much. The elites that like teamplay already form statics or group together; there are always wanna-bes or loner elites and they aren't going to be much interested in this.

 

> 6. We are talking about year 6 of Guild Wars 2. The game is what it is. It is highly doubtful that we will ever see some large overhaul of older game content. Even if they did this, there are so many old players now that the content would be mastered by the end of the first day and you know it. The only thing that could possibly be added to keep older content relevant after already mastering it and obtaining all the rewards, is a competitive aspect to go back to. Some reason to run your mastery vs. someone else's mastery. <- That is the quintessential fire behind any game in human history that has ever had longevity.

Again, no. That's just one way to keep certain people interested. It's not something that revitalizes the game for everyone.

 

And of course, this ignores the fact that, in their current state, the game probably isn't ready for speedclearing leaderboards. Mechanics would have to change. It's doubtful that dungeons can be adjusted at all without a lot of effort (old code, former programmers who left, old tools to build the old code). Even fractals would probably need some work so it would easy to see who did/did not follow the "rules".

 

 

> If competitive dungeons/fractals/raids were to happen, the game would feel a little bit more like Guild Wars.

Do you mean it would be more true to the plain text reading of the game's name? Because a lot of people think "Guild Wars" means a home for non-competitive PvE.

 

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

Well, it's quite fun to get two separate teams in the same discord channel who are competing to finish T4 dailies first. Hilarious.

[Talindra.4958]

Hello.. i have a gut feeling that if they make a board for this player won't care a week after. Mmmm :p

Oh... If daily reset and 10g reward for fastest group maybe.. still not sure how many tryhard group will play. Maybe just 3 groups that try to beat each other maybe maybe