Confusion in PvP and WvW

[Vicko.1204]

Hey everyone.We all know the current state of confusion right now in PvP and WvW after the recent changes/nerfs.I believe also,most of us agree that the previous confusion was too strong,ticking for high damage and it was also easily applied and it indeed was in need of a nerf,so a lot of mesmer players knew a nerf was on its way and they were "prepared".

 

I think condition mirage is still fuctional and not a dead spec,just weaker than it was and I'm kinda ok with that.Kinda.But I believe the nerfs to confusion were over the top after the recent rework.We lost confusion from all shatters but cry of frustration using Illusions traitline,we lost confusion duration from the nerf to Master of Misdirection,we lost confusion application from axe,jaunt received a confusion duration nerf in PvP and WvW + Ineptitude,and ofc confusion does damage only on enemy skill activation now.

 

I believe confusion doesnt need all these nerfs.I'm ok with confusion doing damage only with skill activation in PvP,I believe it's more fun this way giving us some extra thought on when to burst and also it gives more counterplay for the enemies,which is nice.I think axe is going to stay the way it is because it will be weird for anet to revert something like that,it will give the impression that they didnt think about it before making it a torment weapon,so they will keep supporting it as a torment weapon.I accepted that,even tho I don't like this change..So,I'm ok with these 2 changes,to stay the way they are right now.Ineptitude was also strong before the nerf with the Blinding Dissipation synergy,so I can accept that as well.

 

Now.Master of Misdirection.I think this trait needs the confusion duration back.I don't know why they had to nerf this trait after everything they did to confusion,I believe this one right here was over the top since confusion does damage only on skill activation now and our only way to apply a "fair" stack of confusion is with F2 and if we fail to land a good F2,well..yeah.This change will also help a little the scepter,which is an underperfoming weapon.

 

Jaunt.After all the confusion removals from numerous skills,I believe Jaunt needs its confusion duration nerf reverted in PvP,WvW.

 

I don't think any of these 2 "changes" will make condi mirage OP again.Stronger than it currently is,yes ofc,not OP tho.

 

I know that probably someone will pop out and tell me that power mirage and chrono are op so I shouldnt talk since mesmer has 2 meta builds atm running,and I agree that they are very strong right now and need some nerfs mainly to some new phantasms and traits after the rework,but it isn't bad to ask for build diversity and some ppl dont like to just play the flavor of the month.They prefer to stick to one specific playstyle for long periods of time.Like,I play mainly my mesmer and some times my necro,but I'm not gonna bash someone who asks for berserker pvp buffs because spellbreaker is strong or a reaper player asking for reaper buffs because scourge is strong.It's good asking for buffs and changes if a spec is underperforming or it was overnerfed,that's what makes games more complex :)

 

I would love to read your opinions about this,thank you for your time.

 

 

[atlashugged.7642]

I think they should revert the axe/torment change for pvp and wvw at least. And all the other changes that removed confusion sources. Buff the skill activation damage and give condi mesmer more confusion applications. Confusion is fun, and condi mesmers in pvp and wvw should do most of their damage through it.

[joeherbert.6431]

I agree completely agree.

[Musty.3148]

I for one was confused by the AMOUNT of nurf to confusion. I thought, "yeah it could use toning down" but it was pushed into the dirt, ground into the mud and a chamber pot of shit was dumped on it. I only WvW, but the PvE guys had to be crying tears of grief over this. Then to add torment to weapons? What the heck was this thought process? Just change the heavy handed nurf and leave the weapons alone... I just don't get the whole thought process behind this. Was confusion a problem? Yes. Did it need some tweaks? Yes. Did it need to be "Chamber Potted" on? No.

 

[Ivantreil.3092]

> @"Musty.3148" said:

> I for one was confused by the AMOUNT of nurf to confusion. I thought, "yeah it could use toning down" but it was pushed into the dirt, ground into the mud and a chamber pot of kitten was dumped on it. I only WvW, but the PvE guys had to be crying tears of grief over this. Then to add torment to weapons? What the heck was this thought process? Just change the heavy handed nurf and leave the weapons alone... I just don't get the whole thought process behind this. Was confusion a problem? Yes. Did it need some tweaks? Yes. Did it need to be "Chamber Potted" on? No.

>

 

The big injury on this is that this confusion nerf, intended against mesmer, completely killed condi engi, at the end of the aftermath, mesmer got a torment bandaid, the other classes that had confusion access?....

...

...

...

... T_T WHYYYYYYY????

[Angel de Lyssa.4716]

I really do not understand it, I do not even understand the nerf to "Master of Misdirection", I do not know why they took away the + 33% duration of the "Confusion" base, and moved it to the "Cry of Pain", if they pretended to do with that that the "Confusion" depends on a skill ... at least buff more to that skill ... because it leaves much to be desired ...

 

It is more, I would put "Retaliations", would be the "Empathy" spell and the "Backfire" of the mesmer of Guild Wars 1, the enemy receives damage whenever I activate a skill or attack, and also receives damage if he hits the mesmer , something like:

 

**Cry of Pain**

_Cry of Frustration inflicts more stacks of confusion for an increased duration and grants retaliations._

x1Retaliations (4s)

Additional Stacks: 2

Duration Increase: 33%

 

It sounds like op, but it compensates because it only comes out of 1 skill, and spam can not be made, and in addition, it makes coherence with the name of the trait, cry of pain, that's why it also has a retaliation effect.

 

But in general, I would like the mesmer to recover at least the + 33% duration of the "Confusion" base, more than anything, because the scepter right now is very useless. Little duration of applied condition, its GM trait neither has synergy nor contributes help, gives the sensation that the + 20% of speed attack should be core of the scepter and we have been put as a GM trait.

The GM trait of scepter should be something like:

 

**Malicious Sorcery**

_While wielding a scepter, you gain +150 damage condition, and 20% recharge of skill scepter. Scepter skills inflict "Vulnerability" on enemies with a accumulation of confusion._

Condition Damage: +150

x1 Vulnerability (3s)

Threshold of confusion: 3

Recharge Reduced: 20%

 

With this GM trait, we will get a layer of condition that covers us the "Confusion" and the "torment", apart it gives us more damage for those two conditions, all this taking into account the + 20% base core placed in the scepter (without the GM trait).

 

I do not know, what do you think? should do a great rework to the scepter, but with the application of "confusion", since it is its origin and its essence.

[Curunen.8729]

I think confusion as a condition is fine right now, in pvp and wvw.

 

The problem is how it is pretty much removed from all our skills aside from one or two.

 

Axe 3 at the very least should have confusion back if it is intended to be a burst condition as axe 3 is a burst skill. I'm still bitter about the axe being shifted all to torment...

[Vicko.1204]

Thanks for your opinions guys, feels nice to know that other ppl as well feel the same about the nerfs.

 

I agree axe needs to have its confusion application back, but like I said in my first post, I doubt anet is gonna revert the axe changes as I think doing that will make them look goofy, reverting something that fast. It will prove they were wrong and their change was bad and had little thinking behind it and I dont believe they want to do that. They will keep it as a torment weapon, at least for now.

 

Scepter indeed needs major help and rework. In everything, not only in PvP and WvW. The general confusion duration nerf made it even worse than it already was.

 

Power mirage/chrono will probably receive super nerfs also based of what I read from player suggestions in the PvP forun. While power mirage/chrono indeed need some nerfs mostly on the new traits after the recent rework, I believe anet will nerf something that will hit condi mirage as well indirectly. Their proposed elusive mind nerf not only hits power mirage but also condi, making it a basically useless trait for PvP. People in the PvP forums ask for damage nerfs, clone nerfs, false oasis nerfs, stability application from chaos traitline nerfs, protection on staff nerfs, even mirage's unique dodge nerfs. Basically, they want everything nerfed. Devs said they will read the feedback and keep it in mind. Well, let's hope they will be a little gentle :-D Also, a dev posted that they will probably update the new balance notes tonight or tomorrow.

 

I doubt we will see any kind of buff, most likely a wall of nerfs, but who knows. :-D I'm tired of changing items and stats almost after every single balance patch haha

[Curunen.8729]

Fingers crossed they don't hit it everything too hard. Yeah some of the complaints in pvp forum (eg BD stab) are so off the wall it makes you wonder what some players' agenda is - or maybe it's just a case that they don't want to have to worry about mesmer at all in a fight and would even be happy to see it removed from the game.

[MesmerizedNYC.2479]

I'm in 100% agreement with Vicko and Curunen regarding the terrible changes made to confusion. Anet went way, way overboard with this. Esp in light of PoF having been released so recently. Really, introduce a new trait line and weapon with condi confusionin an expansion and then redo it all completely a few months later? Amazingly, the Axe with confusion really changed mesmer for me and I really, really liked it and even built a new ascended set for it. (And not because it was OP) It really fit in nicely with my condi mesmer pre-PoF.

[Jace al Thor.6745]

> @"Curunen.8729" said:

> Fingers crossed they don't hit it everything too hard. Yeah some of the complaints in pvp forum (eg BD stab) are so off the wall it makes you wonder what some players' agenda is - or maybe it's just a case that they don't want to have to worry about mesmer at all in a fight and would even be happy to see it removed from the game.

 

Believe me I know what their agenda is, they want Mesmer nerfed so far into the ground it unplayable. They make incorrect statements or straight up lies about what we can do and when presented with factual information they ignore or just won’t respond because they don’t want to be the laughing stock.

I’ve not read of anyone complaining about BD but I can see someone doing it. Probably complaining that chaos gives too much defense with protection on chaos armor or some crude. But I bet they wouldn’t be willing to give up their hand holding holo or warrior builds.

 

I mean, it would be one thing if the people complaining were Rev mains. That class should be next on the rework table, but not they’re warrior, necro, engi, guard, ranger and ele mains. I’m just glad that the devs know what’s up. That response given in thread about health bars was legit.

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"Curunen.8729" said:

> I think confusion as a condition is fine right now, in pvp and wvw.

>

> The problem is how it is pretty much removed from all our skills aside from one or two.

>

> Axe 3 at the very least should have confusion back if it is intended to be a burst condition as axe 3 is a burst skill. I'm still bitter about the axe being shifted all to torment...

 

I'm fine with a solution that manages to bring proper balance to confusion across all game modes, but leaving it as is and restoring confusion to axe is not a workable solution in PvE as it stands. The torment band-aid fix was not ideal and still has me scratching my head, but it at least makes axe just as usable in PvE as it was previously. What you propose would be a step backward unless they can find a way to work around whatever technical issues forced their hand into this ridiculous situation in the first place.

[Curunen.8729]

> @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> > @"Curunen.8729" said:

> > I think confusion as a condition is fine right now, in pvp and wvw.

> >

> > The problem is how it is pretty much removed from all our skills aside from one or two.

> >

> > Axe 3 at the very least should have confusion back if it is intended to be a burst condition as axe 3 is a burst skill. I'm still bitter about the axe being shifted all to torment...

>

> I'm fine with a solution that manages to bring proper balance to confusion across all game modes, but leaving it as is and restoring confusion to axe is not a workable solution in PvE as it stands. The torment band-aid fix was not ideal and still has me scratching my head, but it at least makes axe just as usable in PvE as it was previously. What you propose would be a step backward unless they can find a way to work around whatever technical issues forced their hand into this ridiculous situation in the first place.

 

Very true this should come with it being split across modes - and previous dot confusion being restored in pve with the updated confusion being kept in pvp/wvw - so that any changes to axe would be relevant. I have no idea what technical limitations there are for this, but the nature of the condition makes it such that it can only work by having different effects in the different game modes.

[wanya.1697]

I dont mind that they readjusted confusion to what it was in the past as the old version already was extremly strong

for pvp/wvw my only wish now is that they also rework all other condis back to pre HoT condi patch

only thing that should stay in that case is that a target can be inflicted with more as 25 stacks

to fix the problem that condis had pre condi patch so it matters if you apply a condition

 

[Bugabuga.9721]

Theoretically PvE confusion needs to go back to where it was before "rework" as most confusion inducing skills are now junk. Axe fix was needed as damage was basically nuked. I don't care what PvP/WvW does, it should always be split anyways.

 

Maybe do an automatic "confusion applies torment" or add a token 1 stack on all skills and have counts be split. So for PvE skill would be 5 stacks of totment and 1 stack of confusion and PvP it'd be the other way around?

 

Still going to result in nerf afterwards as you can insta-kill yourself with 20 stacks of confusion plus anfew random cover condies.

[Arlette.9684]

> @"Curunen.8729" said:

> > @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> > > @"Curunen.8729" said:

> > > I think confusion as a condition is fine right now, in pvp and wvw.

> > >

> > > The problem is how it is pretty much removed from all our skills aside from one or two.

> > >

> > > Axe 3 at the very least should have confusion back if it is intended to be a burst condition as axe 3 is a burst skill. I'm still bitter about the axe being shifted all to torment...

> >

> > I'm fine with a solution that manages to bring proper balance to confusion across all game modes, but leaving it as is and restoring confusion to axe is not a workable solution in PvE as it stands. The torment band-aid fix was not ideal and still has me scratching my head, but it at least makes axe just as usable in PvE as it was previously. What you propose would be a step backward unless they can find a way to work around whatever technical issues forced their hand into this ridiculous situation in the first place.

>

> Very true this should come with it being split across modes - and previous dot confusion being restored in pve with the updated confusion being kept in pvp/wvw - so that any changes to axe would be relevant. I have no idea what technical limitations there are for this, but the nature of the condition makes it such that it can only work by having different effects in the different game modes.

 

Afaik, they can’t split functionality just tweak numbers between modes.

[Curunen.8729]

> @"Arlette.9684" said:

> > @"Curunen.8729" said:

> > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> > > > @"Curunen.8729" said:

> > > > I think confusion as a condition is fine right now, in pvp and wvw.

> > > >

> > > > The problem is how it is pretty much removed from all our skills aside from one or two.

> > > >

> > > > Axe 3 at the very least should have confusion back if it is intended to be a burst condition as axe 3 is a burst skill. I'm still bitter about the axe being shifted all to torment...

> > >

> > > I'm fine with a solution that manages to bring proper balance to confusion across all game modes, but leaving it as is and restoring confusion to axe is not a workable solution in PvE as it stands. The torment band-aid fix was not ideal and still has me scratching my head, but it at least makes axe just as usable in PvE as it was previously. What you propose would be a step backward unless they can find a way to work around whatever technical issues forced their hand into this ridiculous situation in the first place.

> >

> > Very true this should come with it being split across modes - and previous dot confusion being restored in pve with the updated confusion being kept in pvp/wvw - so that any changes to axe would be relevant. I have no idea what technical limitations there are for this, but the nature of the condition makes it such that it can only work by having different effects in the different game modes.

>

> Afaik, they can’t split functionality just tweak numbers between modes.

 

I saw a suggestion regarding that where both functionalities (dot and on skill cast) could have their numbers adjusted separately in the different game modes - so essentially confusion would still work the same in pve and pvp but in the former the dot component is scaled higher and in the latter it's the other way around? But I'm no game developer so have no idea as to how applicable this is in practice.

[Arlette.9684]

Oh that should be possible, what I was going for was that they can’t have torment in PvE and confusion in PvP/WvW on the same skill.

[Jace al Thor.6745]

Hey guess what guys and gals? People are still complaining that confusion ticks too hard and too often!

I just don’t understand it. Torment and burn both hit... what 3x as hard as confusion now? Not only that but we’ve had our application ability nerfed too. Confusion shouldn’t be and isn’t killing anyone any more.

[Vicko.1204]

> @"Jace al Thor.6745" said:

> Hey guess what guys and gals? People are still complaining that confusion ticks too hard and too often!

> I just don’t understand it. Torment and burn both hit... what 3x as hard as confusion now? Not only that but we’ve had our application ability nerfed too. Confusion shouldn’t be and isn’t killing anyone any more.

 

I'm happy these ppl exist, so we can have actually someone to kill with confusion after all the nerfs and not feel that sad.

[Jace al Thor.6745]

> @"Vicko.1204" said:

> > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said:

> > Hey guess what guys and gals? People are still complaining that confusion ticks too hard and too often!

> > I just don’t understand it. Torment and burn both hit... what 3x as hard as confusion now? Not only that but we’ve had our application ability nerfed too. Confusion shouldn’t be and isn’t killing anyone any more.

>

> I'm happy these ppl exist, so we can have actually someone to kill with confusion after all the nerfs and not feel that sad.

 

I would much prefer they came up and asked for help learning the build to know what can be done to counter it and what they are doing wrong but it’s easier to complain.

[Tinnel.4369]

> @"Vicko.1204" said:

> Thanks for your opinions guys, feels nice to know that other ppl as well feel the same about the nerfs.

>

> I agree axe needs to have its confusion application back, but like I said in my first post, I doubt anet is gonna revert the axe changes as I think doing that will make them look goofy, reverting something that fast. It will prove they were wrong and their change was bad and had little thinking behind it and I dont believe they want to do that. They will keep it as a torment weapon, at least for now.

 

They already did show themselves by immediately throwing torment at it and leaving confusion orphaned or haphazard throughout the rest of the class. It was clearly a series of knee jerk reactions with very little thought behind them. Between the irrationality and entitlement of the community and the disconnect of whoever is at the wheel it's troubling.

 

Balancing is difficult in every game, but how things are so blatantly askew here is pretty disturbing. Priorities just seem out of whack to me.

 

[Exciton.8942]

Confusion is more of a cover condition and some sustained pressure now, as opposed to a burst damage before

 

You have to do damage through mostly torment and burn now.