/GG in fractals needs to be nerfed

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @"FrizzFreston.5290" said:

> No one gets to decide anything. We can only put forward our preferences. This scapegoating other players for their own opinions is just wrong. Only ArenaNet decides, and they may have a vision on how the game should work

>

> If you're going to put it as an us and them scenario I would personally throw /gg out the window as I wouldnt want a feature to break up the community over such minor functionalities.

>

> Even if Im not affected much as I have my own group, and I probably would just use a function as its there... I still can have an opinion about it. To play this nonsensical blame game is just very childish and unrealistic.

>

> It happened all the same during AB multiloot discussions, it didnt hold then and it doesnt hold now.

>

> Its upto Ben and his collegues if they want to make /gg integral to completing fractals fast or not.

 

If Anet has a vision and it doesn't matter what they say, maybe they should just close forums altogether? I mean you act like anyone here has power to decide anything and you lecture us for no reason.

[Vrita.7846]

I don't have time to be standing around waiting for cooldowns. I run reset fractals with my static, which take a little over an hour for T4s + 99 +100 cm which I then jump into raids with my static at reset + 1h30m. I usually have anywhere between 10-30 minutes to take a small break and prepare for raids after I finish fractals. Nerfing /gg because of "muh immersion" or cause a few whiners don't like doing it is stupid. All it'll do is punish speedrunners and potentially ruin schedules because it'll make fractals even longer than they already are. If you don't want to /gg than don't, make an LFG advertising for no /gg or form your own static of like minded people, but don't punish the rest of the players that use /gg for convenience sake.

[Harper.4173]

> @"MithranArkanere.8957" said:

> > @"Harper.4173" said:

> > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > > > @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > > > > Bro, I don't ever stand and wait. I just go to the next fight and let CDs happen organically.

> > > > >

> > > > > I don't feel the need to stand and wait for CDs or rapid /GG vs. every mob of Dredge that I fight. It's pretty unnecessary actually.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > I'm not talking about trash mobs, rather cm bosses. Different bosses are best fought with different skills. If you just move on, your chrono might still have blink/portal slotted that might be useless for the next boss. You cannot even switch skills while they are on cd, so you end up having 2 useless skills in your precious slots. People who do that end up with a generic build and not use it to its full potential. It works of course, but I like adjusting my class to the upcoming encounter.

> > >

> > > And I'm not talking about CM bosses, I'm talking about trash mobs. I've already said that multiple times now. Players here ARE NOT complaining about /GGs in CMs, they are complaining about amphetamine driven players in normal T4s /GGing left and right. It's obnoxious and gets old.

> >

> > This is the age old issue of "I don't like how other players play the game still I insist on joining them and playing with them, then I complain on the forums".

> > You don't like GG-ing? You don't like the "amphetamine driven players"? Good - make your own "No GG T4s" and be done with it.

> >

> > You don't get to decide what's right and fun for other people. For me people that DON'T GG are obnoxious - so how do things work now?

> > Stick to your own kind and I'll stick to mine.

> >

>

> Wrong, it's the ancient issue of "the most efficient way to do something is boring, or repetitive, or exploits something, and that forces everyone to choose between doing the right thing and being punished by being rewarded less or taking longer, or joining in with the shenanigans and feeling like they are doing something wrong".

>

> Something isn't right just because someone has gotten used to it while it wasn't working as intended and does not want it fixed. It's right when it works as intended.

>

> Imagine you find an AT that gives free cash. What would you do? Grab as much cash as you can? Report it? Ignore it?

 

I can understand the "exploiting" but the other ideas are wrong. You don't get to decide what's "boring" or "unacceptable" for me. I love nothing more than repetitive content I can grind while not even thinking about it. If you enjoy the game some other way - that's your business. But grinding something like CoF P1 over and over and over again was for me one of the most fun experiences I've had in this game.

 

There is no "right thing" as long as I'm not exploiting the game. Me and other people that enjoy the game this way don't feel we're doing "something wrong" just because we're playing efficiently. This is your OWN projection because you cannot understand or accept that others might hold different values and have fun differently. If it seems "wrong" to you then it certainly must be. If you're bored then certainly I must be bored too right?

 

**There is no "right way" to play - we each have preferences. You stick to yours, and I'll stick to mine. You stick to people who enjoy the game the way you do and I'll do the same. How is this so hard? **

 

Working as intended is a difficult notion - whilein the case of clear exploits you can clearly see that the developers didn't intend for you to walk through a certain wall, or maybe sell something for more than you bought it for to an NPC - in the case of playing within the game's rules and not exploiting - you can't really say.

If something isn't playing as intended then the developers will change it. It's happened before. Sometimes the way people played was encouraged and features were added to support it.

 

Remember LFG? It used to have no filters - so one might think that was "intended" - but it has filters now.

Your AT machine is a false analogy. Playing the game more effectively does not make the rewards '"free".

[Harper.4173]

> @"Rune Darkmoor.3269" said:

> > @"FrizzFreston.5290" said:

> > No one gets to decide anything. We can only put forward our preferences. This scapegoating other players for their own opinions is just wrong. Only ArenaNet decides, and they may have a vision on how the game should work

> >

> > If you're going to put it as an us and them scenario I would personally throw /gg out the window as I wouldnt want a feature to break up the community over such minor functionalities.

> >

> > Even if Im not affected much as I have my own group, and I probably would just use a function as its there... I still can have an opinion about it. To play this nonsensical blame game is just very childish and unrealistic.

> >

> > It happened all the same during AB multiloot discussions, it didnt hold then and it doesnt hold now.

> >

> > Its upto Ben and his collegues if they want to make /gg integral to completing fractals fast or not.

>

> Have to agree with Fizz here. People keep saying, "well if you don't like it, run with yours and I'll run with mine."

>

> In the long term this is going to split the community running fractals even more than it already is, and imo that's not good for fractals. ANet has to decide if they're okay with that. Although this reminds me of Ursanway in a way in GW1. If this becomes the standard for the majority it would become an issue that needs to be addressed. I think it would be prudent to nip that kind of end result in the bud now.

>

> Especially over something like the /gg methodology of running. To me that doesn't feel like what ANet intended with /gg. But that is purely speculative on my part. I do understand why people want to use this method, people are always looking for ways to min/max runs for maximum results in the shortest time. This is a valid way to play the game, and there is definitely a large group of players that find this enjoyable and preferable.

>

> You won't find me running with those groups though, I'm the kind that's more for the experience and challenge or helping others (like people who just KEEP GOING DOWN on twilight final boss) than just a min/maxed speed run. That seems boring to me and like someone is just rushing to a goal post which they will eventually get bored of too, eventually.

>

> But that's just my opinion, whatever floats your boat.

 

The problem is a mentality one.

Players that want speed and efficiency and players that want other things - "the experience". The community IS split. If it isn't the /gg it will be something else. Once the /gg is out then they'll argue and bicker about the next thing efficiency focused players will do that will inevitably tick off the others.

You can't beat human nature - you can't make people NOT want to be efficient - it's what our species has been doing ever since the dawn of man .Doing things better. We're built for it.

You also can't force people who have very different goals to play together without tension. You want to go slow and scenic - I want to get in and get the rewards asap. There will be conflict.

Why can't we just accept that the community IS split and WILL be split regardless of whether the /gg stays and goes. Why can't you let others have fun?

[Harper.4173]

> @"Vrita.7846" said:

> I don't have time to be standing around waiting for cooldowns. I run reset fractals with my static, which take a little over an hour for T4s + 99 +100 cm which I then jump into raids with my static at reset + 1h30m. I usually have anywhere between 10-30 minutes to take a small break and prepare for raids after I finish fractals. Nerfing /gg because of "muh immersion" or cause a few whiners don't like doing it is stupid. All it'll do is punish speedrunners and potentially ruin schedules because it'll make fractals even longer than they already are. If you don't want to /gg than don't, make an LFG advertising for no /gg or form your own static of like minded people, but don't punish the rest of the players that use /gg for convenience sake.

 

This has sadly been going on ever since the game came out.

"These players are playing the game in a way I don't like but for some reason I can't bother to leave them alone and just play with people I enjoy playing with and people that play like me so I'm going to complain about it on the forums so Anet changes the game to force them into playing the way I know is right and makes me feel good". That is because nobody has a better understanding of the game than I do AND my way of playing and enjoying the game is not only the only valid way of doing it but also the way the developers intended"

 

Players who think like that have perpetually filled the forums with "stop them from doing this" and "Change this" because they won't be bothered to make their own communities that play their way. Instead - they want to make the larger population of players play their way out of convenience ( I would assume).

[FrizzFreston.5290]

> @"Harper.4173" said:

> > @"Rune Darkmoor.3269" said:

> > > @"FrizzFreston.5290" said:

> > > No one gets to decide anything. We can only put forward our preferences. This scapegoating other players for their own opinions is just wrong. Only ArenaNet decides, and they may have a vision on how the game should work

> > >

> > > If you're going to put it as an us and them scenario I would personally throw /gg out the window as I wouldnt want a feature to break up the community over such minor functionalities.

> > >

> > > Even if Im not affected much as I have my own group, and I probably would just use a function as its there... I still can have an opinion about it. To play this nonsensical blame game is just very childish and unrealistic.

> > >

> > > It happened all the same during AB multiloot discussions, it didnt hold then and it doesnt hold now.

> > >

> > > Its upto Ben and his collegues if they want to make /gg integral to completing fractals fast or not.

> >

> > Have to agree with Fizz here. People keep saying, "well if you don't like it, run with yours and I'll run with mine."

> >

> > In the long term this is going to split the community running fractals even more than it already is, and imo that's not good for fractals. ANet has to decide if they're okay with that. Although this reminds me of Ursanway in a way in GW1. If this becomes the standard for the majority it would become an issue that needs to be addressed. I think it would be prudent to nip that kind of end result in the bud now.

> >

> > Especially over something like the /gg methodology of running. To me that doesn't feel like what ANet intended with /gg. But that is purely speculative on my part. I do understand why people want to use this method, people are always looking for ways to min/max runs for maximum results in the shortest time. This is a valid way to play the game, and there is definitely a large group of players that find this enjoyable and preferable.

> >

> > You won't find me running with those groups though, I'm the kind that's more for the experience and challenge or helping others (like people who just KEEP GOING DOWN on twilight final boss) than just a min/maxed speed run. That seems boring to me and like someone is just rushing to a goal post which they will eventually get bored of too, eventually.

> >

> > But that's just my opinion, whatever floats your boat.

>

> The problem is a mentality one.

> Players that want speed and efficiency and players that want other things - "the experience". The community IS split. If it isn't the /gg it will be something else. Once the /gg is out then they'll argue and bicker about the next thing efficiency focused players will do that will inevitably tick off the others.

> You can't beat human nature - you can't make people NOT want to be efficient - it's what our species has been doing ever since the dawn of man .Doing things better. We're built for it.

> You also can't force people who have very different goals to play together without tension. You want to go slow and scenic - I want to get in and get the rewards asap. There will be conflict.

> Why can't we just accept that the community IS split and WILL be split regardless of whether the /gg stays and goes. Why can't you let others have fun?

 

First of all: Even the players that want speed and efficiency have to colour within the lines set out by the developer. Second: There's no such black and white split that there's only players who want one thing and another, there's many players who want both as well. I only stated that IF there's such a split that would only be a reason to get rid of it. There's not even any proof that there will always be such a split. In fact, as a speedrunner, you also want to have a nice experience.

 

It's a fallacy to treat this as if players that want speed and efficiency don't want ANY experience. It's not like you just would like the reward from doing nothing at all. And as such that everything that makes it faster and makes it easier is not automatically a great addition. That's not how it works. What you're stating is that because it gets repeated so often, any way to skip the content and get the reward faster is great. That seems to me that you have lost your ability to look at it without or less bias

 

Instead it's really about streamlining the functionality, by setting it as standard where it makes sense, or removing/disallowing it where it gives too much advantage.

If through /gg only one player needs to get to the end of the fractal and everyone will just spawn at the end by typing /gg that's obviously an exploit. resetting cooldowns by basically killing everyone seems odd to me. I rather have something like a adrenaline mushroom, that tells you, right, here I need to be prepared well and the game resets my cooldowns for me so I can fully prepare myself.

 

It's not at all about not letting others have fun, it's about setting boundaries on what is a good experience, EVEN for those who done it a hundred times if not ESPECIALLY for those, and a exploit-y cheat-y experience where you need to use some tricks getting past content in another way than the conventional way just feels bad. I think that removing or rather MOVING the reset cooldown functionality into a controlled state works much better and is alot less rampant than the current implementation. That just makes sense to me. And that's not to say har deharhar i want you to go slower and have a bad experience where it gets really grindy. That me thinking, I don't want it to become some method that affects every fractal. Since it doesn't put the initial experience in the hands of the developer anymore, but rather the developer needs to think with every new fractal. "would players abuse cooldown reset here, do I place less checkpoints here?" In fact it can save alot of dev time in the future by changing it now rather than letting players run about resetting cooldowns nilly willy where they see fit.

 

It's probably more constructive to state where you would really need that cooldownreset, and perhaps those locations where you most likely probably if you can in fact be honest with yourself, don't really need it.

 

Even though I would happily /gg with everyone else when I'm in a group who wants to do so. But regardless it's a better experience where it's more streamlined and the boundaries of what is possible and what is too much freedom are clearer.

 

[Faaris.8013]

> @"Harper.4173" said:

> Why can't we just accept that the community IS split and WILL be split regardless of whether the /gg stays and goes. Why can't you let others have fun?

 

I don't think the community is "split" in a bad sense. GW2 caters or tries to cater to a wide range of player profiles. As long as those players are not "forced" to play together, it's all fine. There are games that don't have this issue, like first person shooters. Everybody who starts playing such a game is similar to the other players. It's Anet's job to figure out how to design their content so everybody is just not bothered enough to leave. My rule of thumb is that if something doesn't hurt another player (or a whole bunch of players who share the same philosophy), why change it? It's not easy to figure out if and how much hurt really is done by /gg in fractals. I think we can agree that /gg in static groups is no issue at all. So the problem is that some players feel hurt by it when they get into a group that uses /gg.

 

My first questions would be: What exactly is the damage done to these players? Why do they feel bothered by it?

 

 

[Haleydawn.3764]

> @"FrizzFreston.5290" said:

> This scapegoating other players for their own opinions is just wrong. Only ArenaNet decides, and they may have a vision on how the game should work

 

It's all well and good saying not to scapegoat other players, but this isn’t the first time Malediktus gets what he wants. He wanted no AP rewards from PvP League players placing in the top 250 So they now get none.

[Henry.5713]

> @"AnariiUK.7409" said:

> I think /gg removed a lot of the interesting theorycrafting and planning ahead from speedruns. Now you just bring skipping utilities for skipping and your heaviest DPS utilities for fights, there's no consequence to popping a huge cooldown right before a long skip. I don't mind its usage for skipping ahead to checkpoints though, just wish it didn't reset the CDs. If anything it has only contributed to the massive power creep in fractals at the moment, since you're free to just burst every cooldown you have whenever you want.

>

> Sure it's boring to have to wait ages for cooldowns before fights without /gg, but did anyone actually wait on cooldowns before /gg was added to fractals? You just recognised that you'd screwed up by wasting CD's and got on with it.

 

I feel like this is actually the only valid point against having /gg in it's current version. It does make the old theorycrafting rather pointless. I enjoyed having to figure out perfect timings to use big cooldowns multiple times and exactly when needed. Still, the convenience is a big plus nonetheless.

[Feanor.2358]

> @"Henry.5713" said:

> > @"AnariiUK.7409" said:

> > I think /gg removed a lot of the interesting theorycrafting and planning ahead from speedruns. Now you just bring skipping utilities for skipping and your heaviest DPS utilities for fights, there's no consequence to popping a huge cooldown right before a long skip. I don't mind its usage for skipping ahead to checkpoints though, just wish it didn't reset the CDs. If anything it has only contributed to the massive power creep in fractals at the moment, since you're free to just burst every cooldown you have whenever you want.

> >

> > Sure it's boring to have to wait ages for cooldowns before fights without /gg, but did anyone actually wait on cooldowns before /gg was added to fractals? You just recognised that you'd screwed up by wasting CD's and got on with it.

>

> I feel like this is actually the only valid point against having /gg in it's current version. It does make the old theorycrafting rather pointless. I enjoyed having to figure out perfect timings to use big cooldowns multiple times and exactly when needed. Still, the convenience is a big plus nonetheless.

 

To be fair, timing you big skills is still a thing, just within a fight instead of stretched over several encounters, half of them pointless. But the thing is, using your big cooldowns more often isn't bad. To the contrary, these are the skills designed to have the biggest impact, and are therefore the most fun to use.

[Faaris.8013]

> @"Henry.5713" said:

> I feel like this is actually the only valid point against having /gg in it's current version. It does make the old theorycrafting rather pointless. I enjoyed having to figure out perfect timings to use big cooldowns multiple times and exactly when needed. Still, the convenience is a big plus nonetheless.

 

I feel this is a valid point for the argument that people can create groups that specify that no skipping or /gg is used. We know these kind of LFGs for dungeons, it's nothing new. If you wanted to experience a dungeon with the cutscenes of the story, you would just state it in your LFG. But nowaydays, people would call "skipping cutscenes" an exploit and ask Anet to remove the skip button.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

Fractals and player mentality moved to bosses.TBH I am a long time dungeon lover but after Twilight Oasis I changed my mind - I don't like trash skipping and wasting time. Boss is where the fun is. GW2 was sold with premise of no "waiting to have fun" and /gg helps to skip waiting, especially after wipes. Don't act like trash skips or jumping puzzles in fractals are important or prestigous to complete. They are just fillers. Some cooldowns are long and there's no justification to wait for skill change or recharge. It's literally wasting time.

 

So if Ben believes /gg is bad, remove it from raids aswell. Remove every QoL you added to fractals. Remove mesmer portals. Remove teleport to friend. Remove alacrity. Remove stealth.

[Henry.5713]

> @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > @"Henry.5713" said:

> > I feel like this is actually the only valid point against having /gg in it's current version. It does make the old theorycrafting rather pointless. I enjoyed having to figure out perfect timings to use big cooldowns multiple times and exactly when needed. Still, the convenience is a big plus nonetheless.

>

> I feel this is a valid point for the argument that people can create groups that specify that no skipping or /gg is used. We know these kind of LFGs for dungeons, it's nothing new. If you wanted to experience a dungeon with the cutscenes of the story, you would just state it in your LFG. But nowaydays, people would call "skipping cutscenes" an exploit and ask Anet to remove the skip button.

 

Having to consider the cooldowns was a part of fully min-maxing your play before this feature was added. Something that is pointless and no longer needed now. It is more of a nostalgic feeling towards something we had to do before which took a certain level of planning. However, I wouldn't create parties for core builds only either just because I feel nostalgic about the pre expansion game. I like to be fast and I like to be efficient. Not asking for /gg to be removed but this is a valid point nonetheless, or at least far more valid than the immersion breaking feeling some get.

 

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > @"Henry.5713" said:

> > > @"AnariiUK.7409" said:

> > > I think /gg removed a lot of the interesting theorycrafting and planning ahead from speedruns. Now you just bring skipping utilities for skipping and your heaviest DPS utilities for fights, there's no consequence to popping a huge cooldown right before a long skip. I don't mind its usage for skipping ahead to checkpoints though, just wish it didn't reset the CDs. If anything it has only contributed to the massive power creep in fractals at the moment, since you're free to just burst every cooldown you have whenever you want.

> > >

> > > Sure it's boring to have to wait ages for cooldowns before fights without /gg, but did anyone actually wait on cooldowns before /gg was added to fractals? You just recognised that you'd screwed up by wasting CD's and got on with it.

> >

> > I feel like this is actually the only valid point against having /gg in it's current version. It does make the old theorycrafting rather pointless. I enjoyed having to figure out perfect timings to use big cooldowns multiple times and exactly when needed. Still, the convenience is a big plus nonetheless.

>

> To be fair, timing you big skills is still a thing, just within a fight instead of stretched over several encounters, half of them pointless. But the thing is, using your big cooldowns more often isn't bad. To the contrary, these are the skills designed to have the biggest impact, and are therefore the most fun to use.

 

Of course, you always had to and still have to time them properly during the fights. The alacrity changes by themselves allow you to use some skills twice now which requires another form of timing. Picking your elites depending on the length of the Fractals plus the decision on which bosses you prefer to use something on is gone now, however. It got replaced with new decision about how to use certain skills on some bosses you couldn't use them on before.

[Profebolter.4038]

> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> Fractals and player mentality moved to bosses.TBH I am a long time dungeon lover but after Twilight Oasis I changed my mind - I don't like trash skipping and wasting time. Boss is where the fun is. GW2 was sold with premise of no "waiting to have fun" and /gg helps to skip waiting, especially after wipes. Don't act like trash skips or jumping puzzles in fractals are important or prestigous to complete. They are just fillers. Some cooldowns are long and there's no justification to wait for skill change or recharge. It's literally wasting time.

>

> So if Ben believes /gg is bad, remove it from raids aswell. Remove every QoL you added to fractals. Remove mesmer portals. Remove teleport to friend. Remove alacrity. Remove stealth.

 

I disagree.

 

Fractals are not the same as raids, raids have the most challenging content of all.

 

Why do you think they put the skill reset in the raids?

 

Basically, so that people do not have to wait to be reloaded skills and more with raids of 10 people.

 

Besides, the encounters of the bosses are much more lasting than in the fractals.

 

With the community that we have right now, with the little patience there is. It is a good tool for raids. Because, the 1st failure or the second, and people are leaving the group, waiting for the rest of your colleagues who are recharged CDs. And with this, you do not wait 15 seconds to confront a boss again, which has previously failed.

 

You have to have everything ready to face a boss, which is even more difficult than in fractals.

 

On the other hand, fractals, from my point of view: a time has come when the community forces you to throw the / gg to reset the skills, and also to skip. If you do not, you take a kick in the face. And I, I do not see the need to reset the skills, they would have to remove it. What removes gameplay, and also the mechanics of the game.

 

And even if they re-place it, it will continue working in the same way, and I have even said above to use it with another purpose and in the end we will have to copy it and force us to use it.

 

That's why people are tired and bored with fractals. Because they are motonomos, and with this command that is used for other purposes, it makes it very boring. Believe me if there were the same rewards of fractals and dungeons, people would quickly return to the old dungeons, because they are fun, if you want to do a skip you have to do them and not through a command. But people go to fractals, because they give better rewards and have unique rewards that the dungeons do not give, knowing that they are boring and they admit it.

 

 

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @"Profebolter.4038" said:

> > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > Fractals and player mentality moved to bosses.TBH I am a long time dungeon lover but after Twilight Oasis I changed my mind - I don't like trash skipping and wasting time. Boss is where the fun is. GW2 was sold with premise of no "waiting to have fun" and /gg helps to skip waiting, especially after wipes. Don't act like trash skips or jumping puzzles in fractals are important or prestigous to complete. They are just fillers. Some cooldowns are long and there's no justification to wait for skill change or recharge. It's literally wasting time.

> >

> > So if Ben believes /gg is bad, remove it from raids aswell. Remove every QoL you added to fractals. Remove mesmer portals. Remove teleport to friend. Remove alacrity. Remove stealth.

>

> I disagree.

>

> Fractals are not the same as raids, raids have the most challenging content of all.

>

> Why do you think they put the skill reset in the raids?

>

> Basically, so that people do not have to wait to be reloaded skills and more with raids of 10 people.

>

> Besides, the encounters of the bosses are much more lasting than in the fractals.

>

> With the community that we have right now, with the little patience there is. It is a good tool for raids. Because, the 1st failure or the second, and people are leaving the group, waiting for the rest of your colleagues who are recharged CDs. And with this, you do not wait 15 seconds to confront a boss again, which has previously failed.

>

> You have to have everything ready to face a boss, which is even more difficult than in fractals.

>

> On the other hand, fractals, from my point of view: a time has come when the community forces you to throw the / gg to reset the skills, and also to skip. If you do not, you take a kick in the face. And I, I do not see the need to reset the skills, they would have to remove it. What removes gameplay, and also the mechanics of the game.

>

> And even if they re-place it, it will continue working in the same way, and I have even said above to use it with another purpose and in the end we will have to copy it and force us to use it.

>

> That's why people are tired and bored with fractals. Because they are motonomos, and with this command that is used for other purposes, it makes it very boring. Believe me if there were the same rewards of fractals and dungeons, people would quickly return to the old dungeons, because they are fun, if you want to do a skip you have to do them and not through a command. But people go to fractals, because they give better rewards and have unique rewards that the dungeons do not give, knowing that they are boring and they admit it.

>

>

 

I will just tell you what people are telling me every time I don't agree with Anet decisions about instanced content in this game - create your own group and fin likeminded people to play with. Create your own "no /gg" group on LFG and be happy without using it. There is no reason to destroy QoL features for players who actually enjoy them. /gg is QoL and nothing else.

 

Also, never stated fractals are most challenging content (or that they should be, on the contrary, I think making fractals into 5-man raids is stupid). However, if they decide to remove /gg here, they should remove it in raids also. If they don't do this, such decision would be arbitrary and would only prove that Anet tries to fix sth that isn't broken only to prove their point - whatever that point is.

 

Recently looks like they are making more questionable decisions, like this one or random fractal instabilities. I think it would be better if they spent their resources on creating new fractal or revamping old hated ones, instead of "fixing" QoL features people like in general. Changing /gg is literally a waste of time for Anet and for players.

[Harper.4173]

> @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > @"Harper.4173" said:

> > Why can't we just accept that the community IS split and WILL be split regardless of whether the /gg stays and goes. Why can't you let others have fun?

>

> I don't think the community is "split" in a bad sense. GW2 caters or tries to cater to a wide range of player profiles. As long as those players are not "forced" to play together, it's all fine. There are games that don't have this issue, like first person shooters. Everybody who starts playing such a game is similar to the other players. It's Anet's job to figure out how to design their content so everybody is just not bothered enough to leave. My rule of thumb is that if something doesn't hurt another player (or a whole bunch of players who share the same philosophy), why change it? It's not easy to figure out if and how much hurt really is done by /gg in fractals. I think we can agree that /gg in static groups is no issue at all. So the problem is that some players feel hurt by it when they get into a group that uses /gg.

>

> My first questions would be: What exactly is the damage done to these players? Why do they feel bothered by it?

>

>

 

I'm not saying this is a bad thing.

Also FPS players are also split - between games for example. Battlefield fans and Call of Duty fans are not only lovers of very different games but also often at each other's throats. Even within the same game - players prefer or exclusively play one game mode. Take COD Normal vs Hardcore players.

 

In my opinion these players feel "bothered" not by the gg but by the idea that other people don't play and don't enjoy the game the way they do. It ticks them off to see people having different goals. I've seen people who absolutely loathed the fact that I was farming something. It made them feel like they needed to stop and explain to me why my reason for playing the game was all wrong - and why and how they had it all figured out.

[Harper.4173]

> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> Fractals and player mentality moved to bosses.TBH I am a long time dungeon lover but after Twilight Oasis I changed my mind - I don't like trash skipping and wasting time. Boss is where the fun is. GW2 was sold with premise of no "waiting to have fun" and /gg helps to skip waiting, especially after wipes. Don't act like trash skips or jumping puzzles in fractals are important or prestigous to complete. They are just fillers. Some cooldowns are long and there's no justification to wait for skill change or recharge. It's literally wasting time.

>

> So if Ben believes /gg is bad, remove it from raids aswell. Remove every QoL you added to fractals. Remove mesmer portals. Remove teleport to friend. Remove alacrity. Remove stealth.

 

Honestly I would LOVE for the fractal selector to be removed. It "trivializes content and ruins my immersion". Fractals should be random. Always. So you never know if you're in for 30 minutes or 2 hours. Just like back in the day.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @"Harper.4173" said:

> > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > Fractals and player mentality moved to bosses.TBH I am a long time dungeon lover but after Twilight Oasis I changed my mind - I don't like trash skipping and wasting time. Boss is where the fun is. GW2 was sold with premise of no "waiting to have fun" and /gg helps to skip waiting, especially after wipes. Don't act like trash skips or jumping puzzles in fractals are important or prestigous to complete. They are just fillers. Some cooldowns are long and there's no justification to wait for skill change or recharge. It's literally wasting time.

> >

> > So if Ben believes /gg is bad, remove it from raids aswell. Remove every QoL you added to fractals. Remove mesmer portals. Remove teleport to friend. Remove alacrity. Remove stealth.

>

> Honestly I would LOVE for the fractal selector to be removed. It "trivializes content and ruins my immersion". Fractals should be random. Always. So you never know if you're in for 30 minutes or 2 hours. Just like back in the day.

 

You mean back in the day when people were rolling swamp?

[Feanor.2358]

> @"Harper.4173" said:

> > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > Fractals and player mentality moved to bosses.TBH I am a long time dungeon lover but after Twilight Oasis I changed my mind - I don't like trash skipping and wasting time. Boss is where the fun is. GW2 was sold with premise of no "waiting to have fun" and /gg helps to skip waiting, especially after wipes. Don't act like trash skips or jumping puzzles in fractals are important or prestigous to complete. They are just fillers. Some cooldowns are long and there's no justification to wait for skill change or recharge. It's literally wasting time.

> >

> > So if Ben believes /gg is bad, remove it from raids aswell. Remove every QoL you added to fractals. Remove mesmer portals. Remove teleport to friend. Remove alacrity. Remove stealth.

>

> Honestly I would LOVE for the fractal selector to be removed. It "trivializes content and ruins my immersion". Fractals should be random. Always. So you never know if you're in for 30 minutes or 2 hours. Just like back in the day.

 

To be honest, if you have a good party it will end up always taking roughly the same time. In order to get such a variance in play time you don't need to remove the selector, you need players to un-l2p. :)

[Harper.4173]

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > @"Harper.4173" said:

> > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > Fractals and player mentality moved to bosses.TBH I am a long time dungeon lover but after Twilight Oasis I changed my mind - I don't like trash skipping and wasting time. Boss is where the fun is. GW2 was sold with premise of no "waiting to have fun" and /gg helps to skip waiting, especially after wipes. Don't act like trash skips or jumping puzzles in fractals are important or prestigous to complete. They are just fillers. Some cooldowns are long and there's no justification to wait for skill change or recharge. It's literally wasting time.

> > >

> > > So if Ben believes /gg is bad, remove it from raids aswell. Remove every QoL you added to fractals. Remove mesmer portals. Remove teleport to friend. Remove alacrity. Remove stealth.

> >

> > Honestly I would LOVE for the fractal selector to be removed. It "trivializes content and ruins my immersion". Fractals should be random. Always. So you never know if you're in for 30 minutes or 2 hours. Just like back in the day.

>

> To be honest, if you have a good party it will end up always taking roughly the same time. In order to get such a variance in play time you don't need to remove the selector, you need players to un-l2p. :)

 

The variance in play time was there because the fractals were wildly different back in the day. Some could take a huge amount of time to complete.

[Rune Darkmoor.3269]

> @"Harper.4173" said:

> > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > @"Harper.4173" said:

> > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > > Fractals and player mentality moved to bosses.TBH I am a long time dungeon lover but after Twilight Oasis I changed my mind - I don't like trash skipping and wasting time. Boss is where the fun is. GW2 was sold with premise of no "waiting to have fun" and /gg helps to skip waiting, especially after wipes. Don't act like trash skips or jumping puzzles in fractals are important or prestigous to complete. They are just fillers. Some cooldowns are long and there's no justification to wait for skill change or recharge. It's literally wasting time.

> > > >

> > > > So if Ben believes /gg is bad, remove it from raids aswell. Remove every QoL you added to fractals. Remove mesmer portals. Remove teleport to friend. Remove alacrity. Remove stealth.

> > >

> > > Honestly I would LOVE for the fractal selector to be removed. It "trivializes content and ruins my immersion". Fractals should be random. Always. So you never know if you're in for 30 minutes or 2 hours. Just like back in the day.

> >

> > To be honest, if you have a good party it will end up always taking roughly the same time. In order to get such a variance in play time you don't need to remove the selector, you need players to un-l2p. :)

>

> The variance in play time was there because the fractals were wildly different back in the day. Some could take a huge amount of time to

 

Two words. Clown. Car.

[Malediktus.9250]

It also gave a lot more loot back then, dredge drop good bags

[zealex.9410]

> @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > Balancing the game around immersion is kinda meh anyways.

>

> It's not even about immersion in my opinion. How is it more immersing when your group just stands there and waits for the chrono to change his skill. If you could at least switch skills that are on cool down and carry the cool down over to the new skill. That way you could switch and still have the penalty, but you could start the fight.

>

> If you try to roleplay skill cool downs for immersion it becomes hilarious anyway. And who cares how a group of friends plays instanced content? Nobody else sees what you are doing.

>

> This upcoming change and the random toxic trails etc. are not good for the game. Fractals is the only content I do regularly, but yesterday I already skipped them because 99cm with toxic trails and random conditions and pugs was horrible. This stuff adds no fun to the game, it's just annoying.

 

Honestly if you cant deal with the content and the instabilities change up your setup to make it work better. Also if one can play the content how ever he/she likes with friends or like minded ppl then why is the op here ;_;

[zealex.9410]

A good solution for the op would be to add a "leave no hero behind" for every fractal ^^

[Malediktus.9250]

> @"zealex.9410" said:

> A good solution for the op would be to add a "leave no hero behind" for every fractal ^^

That would be one time content. In 100 CM people tend to /gg anyway. Even if there is someone who still need the achievement, lots of people do not care about that and /gg anyway.