The Problem with this game.

[XenesisII.1540]

Do dagger thieves forget to run away like every other thief on a failed attempt? Or do you all just put on a double dagger, no second weapon, pop the signet to do the backstab and then stand there laughing your behind off because it's your expectation to one shot kill 100% of the time?

 

Does sound like thieves could use a buff when they fail their one shot, maybe they should auto proc stealth with endure pain and gain swiftness and when backstab fails, should bring it up to the balance devs.

 

P.S Every, single, class, should get a one shot skill, not one shot combo, not one shot burst, 1 one shot skill for when they play glass cannon. It's the only fair thing to do, I mean thieves apparently die in one shot anyways so what does it matter if everyone can one shot like them!

[XenesisII.1540]

> @"DeceiverX.8361" said:

> Need proof to my point? Play power D/D signet thief for me, please, and tell me how it goes. I guarantee virtually everyone will completely stomp you. You'll pull big numbers, but you'll rarely get them off, because the damage isn't the problem or the abuse case.

 

Why don't you make the video?

[coglin.1496]

> @"Warlord.9074" said:

 

> Point 2 everyone does too much damage, Every class. Everyone should be able to do good damage, but the amount of damage a skill does should be based on risk and difficulty and that's just not the case in this game.

 

 

> lastly there is too mush sustain and get out of jail free cards for classes that are over buffed in point 1 and Point 2.

 

 

Wait, you complain that everyone does to much damage, then the next point you try to push is that everyone can survive to much damage?

 

[DeceiverX.8361]

D/D does not have either engage or disengage innately and relies on other kits. The thing is, if D/D fails to land its burst, it's almost always at a deficit because its burst revolves around various other cooldowns such as Steal, Shadowstep, and/or ISignet to re-engage. Given the mobility powercreep in the game or simply the ability for other professions to just swap to a 1200 range weapon, a failed burst under the assumption of needing to reset requires a **full** OOC reset, and cooldown powercreep also typically beats out D/D's engage timers. It gets at best one IArrow (900 range) and then runs out of initiative for three more (soon to be two more) seconds. A class with any gap close or ranged weapon can just keep the thief in combat or CC it and close the gap/range it down while its pants are down.

 

And that's assuming the CnD even lands. If it doesn't (CC reflect passives, aegis, blocks, blinds, etc.), either the engage needs to be forced and can be counter-bursted in this time delay while it's not stealthed and in melee, or or needs to disengage after doing literally nothing, all with the same problems.

 

Further, in the event a reset is needed for D/D, its cooldowns are unfavored most of the time, and its enemy is getting a full reset as well. Basically, it wins by its opponent misplaying and escapes by outplaying its opponent to hell and back.

 

If you build to get a 20k backstab, you do not have disengage tools if you get countered and have no defenses otherwise. That's the reason why D/D as a whole is weak; it depends on using utilities and other typically "defensive" abilities to make its engage work. If you run ISignet for engages (lower cooldown for better repeated engages), you have no way out; if you run Shadowstep on engage, you have a 50s cooldown on your only form of both primary engage and disengage and are pre-burning both stunbreak and condition cleanse before your opponent may follow-through with his own counterburst or mobility. The kit is always at a deficit of stunbreaks, cooldowns, engage/disengage, and/or condition cleanses no matter how you spin it.

 

Typically this means it's wise to run Sword as the offhand and pre-cast IStrike for a swapped IReturn to disengage. This becomes problematic for any engagement into a class with ranged damage **or** mobility, however, because the thief in this build configuration's best tool to run away becomes spamming heatseeker into 0 initiative, which is worse than most professions' mobility these days.

 

The only matchup D/D favors is a squishy build with no passives with no mobility paired with slow reactions from its target. AKA, a bad build played by a bad player.

Even reaper could out-maneuver D/D or even D/P Daredevil prior to the nerfs to SoS/SR. I can give you reference to a few thieves in the top 100 I've 1v1'ed open-field on my reaper and won with either 50/50 or beat consistently.

 

When I refer to burst combos, I refer to things that have the same casting time coming from most prominent builds as the amount of time-required setup for a thief to deal similar damage in roughly the same amount of time. Sometimes, multiple-skill burst is favored in environments where blind and aegis can pose a problem to single-skill burst. Longbow soulbeast if built and played correctly channels its RF in the same amount of time as a thief needs to cast backstab. Mesmer's burst happens in an even faster window and deals more damage. Guardian's burst combo is the same exact thing. Backstab is not a one-button-kill because it always needs setup to get into stealth. It also only deals that kind of damage into glassy foes. Anything with high toughness survives and the failed burst ends up being a problem. Either there's an added cast time/delay, or there's extra resources/utilities being burned to do so. Other professions have the same burst capabilities from both a numerical standpoint and a time-casting standpoint give or take a little bit of damage for other tools.

 

You want a OHKO skill for everything? Fine. But if that's the case, I want you to admit that when you use the skill on any other profession, you get one other skill cast and then disable all other skills for another 4 seconds. That's what D/D is. If you don't massively outplay your opponent with no extra help and no other weapon skills except one or maybe two casts of cheap abilities after a failed burst, you have literally nothing left in your kit and just die.

 

Let me put this into perspective; rev's hammer autoattack has the ability to nearly one-shot-kill burst thief/ele. Hell, reaper GS AA1 with the right build can one-shot these thieves. I've personally done it on my reaper lol. It's why I insist Reaper GS is good and always has been.

 

I have thousands of hours on core D/D power thief. The kit is junk despite its big numbers. I play it for the fun of the challenge most of the time. But anyone who's fought me a lot knows that I spend maybe 80% of my time in sword (and have done so since before it was dominant with unblockable FS) because it's just simply better, and that if I'm actually serious about winning, I either reroll to another profession capable of dealing just as much ore more damage, or switch to an OH pistol because it's just strictly better, despite still being weak into this meta.

 

You have a seriously misguided understanding of the thief, especially its numbers, if you think damage is the problem here. Your problem lies in stacked stealth, and that's only a problem as a result of one weapon set and it's a bigger underlying issue with multiple classes in the game right now.

 

Please, reroll a thief. And I'd especially suggest doing so to D/D to get the full experience as to why the damage isn't the problem.

 

 

[DeceiverX.8361]

> @"XenesisII.1540" said:

> > @"DeceiverX.8361" said:

> > Need proof to my point? Play power D/D signet thief for me, please, and tell me how it goes. I guarantee virtually everyone will completely stomp you. You'll pull big numbers, but you'll rarely get them off, because the damage isn't the problem or the abuse case.

>

> Why don't you make the video?

 

Of what? D/D thief? That makes no sense and you're deferring my point with a fallacy.

I've got four thousand hours on D/D thief alone and consistently play the kit better than 99% of the people running it. For me to prove it's weak would be stupid because I'd have to somehow tone my play arbitrarily down because I've managed to make it barely passable against most players after nearly six years of intense play.

 

I'm not asking for a video of you stating it's OP. At best you'll post a montage against noobs, anyways.

Go play it and you'll realize what you're saying is just all falsehoods made by assumptions and maybe you won't complain about things you're just not informed about.

 

I've already given you the agreement that D/P signet burst is an issue by the design of D/P as a result of the design of stacking stealth which is a game-wide problem. I even said the dagger AA buffs were excessive when HoT came out and they buffed the coefficients by 40% to compensate the thief because it had the lowest damage in the game otherwise. You could check the old forums' history and see I made those claims at the time of release. I even advocated against the SShot and HS buffs which are now not getting implemented because I thought they'd end up excessive still. Half of the problem exists because of necessity from powercreep everywhere else. You want to nerf thief's damage? You're only basis for doing so would be to nerf both the defenses and damage of everything else, then, too.

 

A 20k stab's got nothing to do with the raw damage you're complaining about and is in no way a problem relative to other professions. A lot of what you're complaining about is getting fixed, anyways.

 

> @"coglin.1496" said:

> > @"Warlord.9074" said:

>

> > Point 2 everyone does too much damage, Every class. Everyone should be able to do good damage, but the amount of damage a skill does should be based on risk and difficulty and that's just not the case in this game.

>

>

> > lastly there is too mush sustain and get out of jail free cards for classes that are over buffed in point 1 and Point 2.

>

>

> Wait, you complain that everyone does to much damage, then the next point you try to push is that everyone can survive to much damage?

>

 

My interpretation here is it's more of a "Everyone runs around with enough damage to one-shot everyone else meanwhile most builds run around immune to damage for extended periods of time while being able to do so." And the point is absolutely valid. Mixed-sustain-oriented builds like Soldier's that aren't just maximizing/spamming boons are just pointless half the time because sustained immunities/mitigation from skills and traits defeat the purpose of even trying to utilize defensive stats in a lot of encounters. Said sustain builds aside from condi bomb ones just end up being out-healed even if applying their maximum pressure and need to run the same sustain/defensive utilities which means they always lose trades as a fight extends and cooldowns refresh since they lack the burst to get an execution.

 

A lot of the problems circulate around spamming massive boons and skill/utility-based damage immunity effects which don't scale well with stat investment.

 

Protection alone is worth 1000 toughness baseline and suffers from diminishing returns on toughness investment (and vice versa) and capped might is half of a zerk amulet. Without running these kinds of builds, you're just at a huge disadvantage.

[XenesisII.1540]

TLDR, please make video of how badly d/d thieves have it. We need some evidence if we are going to apply for buffs.

[coglin.1496]

> @"DeceiverX.8361" said:

> My interpretation here is it's more of a "Everyone runs around with enough damage to one-shot everyone else meanwhile most builds run around immune to damage for extended periods of time while being able to do so." And the point is absolutely valid.

 

Well, it really isn't valid. I say that because, well, it just isn't true, nor is it actually reasonable. If everyone is running around able to one shot (which is pretty much a lie, because everyone is not running glass cannon builds) everyone, yet simultaneously supporting the ability to be immune to damage for extended periods of time, then everyone is on a level playing field and absolutely no changes need to be made.

 

> A lot of the problems circulate around spamming massive boons and skill/utility-based damage immunity effects which don't scale well with stat investment.

 

My experience doesn't see this as a very rational argument given spellbreakers and mesmers ability to strip boons like it is nothing, and necromancers and more so scourges ability to corrupt boons.

 

You are making arguments that do not hold water in practice in WvW.

 

>Of what? D/D thief? That makes no sense and you're deferring my point with a fallacy.

 

Why don't you make a demonstration video as evidence then? I am not certain"fallacy" means what you seem to believe it means. Asking you to demonstrate your claim with video evidence isn't a "fallacy" it is just plain logic.

 

>I'm not asking for a video of you stating it's OP.

 

Of course not. The other 5,286 videos posted on the forums for years demonstrate that the thief is OP in 1v1 situations. The intelligent argument here would be to point out that this is a group-oriented game and we are discussing a very group-oriented game mode so crying about 1v1 balance is irrational.

 

[Over.2137]

> @"XenesisII.1540" said:

> They over buffed damaged probably because people thought spvp was boring with the tank metas, plus conditions were buffed overboard.

> To compensate for the high damage some classes were given the immunity, shields, evades, and blocks to help survive, but it's turned into the most annoying thing seeing people go auto immune at 50% and basically dash away.

> The elite specs may have given classes new ways to play, but it's completely destroyed the base concept of most classes. Too much was built on extremes.

> Not much point looking for any semblance of balance, because it's gone far beyond repair long ago starting with the trait revamp on june 23rd 2015.

 

THAT was the real start of the downfall, surprised nobody ever mentions it.

After that they went for the "fight broken with broken" logic which had an horrible repercussion on the game imo, the exchange of "1hit win" button and "get out of jail" button between every class is really bad in terms of gameplay and fun.

 

> @"XenesisII.1540" said:

> Thieves need serious help.

>

> 

>

 

I don't care what's the build I don't care what you sacrifice, stop the fucking bullshit this numbers should not exist in this game it legit removes any form of gameplay, this amount of damage takes blatantly very low effort for the thief and 0 counterplay for the 2nd part. Ridiculous and pathetic.

 

[MUDse.7623]

> @"DeceiverX.8361" said:

> Thing with D/D is you'll always see it coming because sustained OOC stealth is not possible. At best, it's restricted to SR out of sight/LoS and it gets lucky.

> The backstab is always preadated by a CnD to which stab can just be negated with a dodge roll and then the thief is committed to melee with a bad kit with limited follow-through and no burst.

 

yes you are correct you can use stuff like SR out of LoS and oneshot then right after you claim a backstab is ALLWAYS preadated by a CnD..

see if i use sustained OOC stealth with d/p you will also see little circles that will tell you my position so you can guess the time i need to get in position. if i have to use it out of sight, i might aswell use SR. thats why no matter the thief build a backstab is avoidable in an open field duel were you dont abuse LoS. you say d/d can only use 1-2 skills after failed burst, what makes you think d/p thief can use more ? we dont have more iniative and if we use it for sustained stealth we are pretty much engaging with 0 initative or we use SA with wich again 20k backstab is hard to achieve ( tho not impossible).

generally you are right that d/d power thief is weaker than d/p thief, because they lack build in chase potential and rely on CnD as only useful defensive tool (DB while nice that it is an evade wont preassure your opponent on power builds and wont provide you with time to preassure with other skills,so it wont help much) while d/p has additonally blinds and interrupts. BP+ Hs is easier to interrupt than CnD but CnD has to hit the target so both ways of accessing stealth are different but i favor neither. once in stealth d/p has further the advantage that they can continue stacking stealth. but both kits are very well able to bring that OHKO onto their opponent , d/p has just endless attempts while d/d does not, wich doesnt make it better for the recipient of the 20k hit.

sure after a CnD it is easy to avoid a backstab, if you see me use BP+HS infront of you it is equally easy to avoid.

[Odinens.5920]

> @"Xillllix.3485" said:

> I agree that the gameplay should be balanced according to risk and difficulty. The abilities themselves are ok, except Weaver which is a headache design.

>

 

I thought so too, until I started learning how to play one. Now that I've learned it enough to be decent at it I think it's the most fun class I've played in this game.

[DeceiverX.8361]

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > @"DeceiverX.8361" said:

> > Thing with D/D is you'll always see it coming because sustained OOC stealth is not possible. At best, it's restricted to SR out of sight/LoS and it gets lucky.

> > The backstab is always preadated by a CnD to which stab can just be negated with a dodge roll and then the thief is committed to melee with a bad kit with limited follow-through and no burst.

>

> yes you are correct you can use stuff like SR out of LoS and oneshot then right after you claim a backstab is ALLWAYS preadated by a CnD..

> see if i use sustained OOC stealth with d/p you will also see little circles that will tell you my position so you can guess the time i need to get in position. if i have to use it out of sight, i might aswell use SR. thats why no matter the thief build a backstab is avoidable in an open field duel were you dont abuse LoS. you say d/d can only use 1-2 skills after failed burst, what makes you think d/p thief can use more ? we dont have more iniative and if we use it for sustained stealth we are pretty much engaging with 0 initative or we use SA with wich again 20k backstab is hard to achieve ( tho not impossible).

> generally you are right that d/d power thief is weaker than d/p thief, because they lack build in chase potential and rely on CnD as only useful defensive tool (DB while nice that it is an evade wont preassure your opponent on power builds and wont provide you with time to preassure with other skills,so it wont help much) while d/p has additonally blinds and interrupts. BP+ Hs is easier to interrupt than CnD but CnD has to hit the target so both ways of accessing stealth are different but i favor neither. once in stealth d/p has further the advantage that they can continue stacking stealth. but both kits are very well able to bring that OHKO onto their opponent , d/p has just endless attempts while d/d does not, wich doesnt make it better for the recipient of the 20k hit.

> sure after a CnD it is easy to avoid a backstab, if you see me use BP+HS infront of you it is equally easy to avoid.

 

In the case of massive stab damage, Assassin's Signet is pretty much always mandated. A D/D thief not using CnD for the backstab if utilizing OOC stealth is largely confined to using SR (and I guess BP but this choice is really not worthwhile), which takes away two utilities and lacks other essential utility in its build to the point of non-viability. SR still does not really change my argument either - stacking stealth OOC is the problem, and I prefer to be totally accurate in my responses whenever possible by acknowledging possible counterpoints. D/D is capable of abusing stacking stealth, but the problem's core identity persists and it has nothing to do with the kit on D/D or on MH dagger itself, really; Kill Shot warrior with a partnered thief for SR or smoke fields is just as problematic; a guildmate of mine mains rifle core warrior and regularly also lands 20k+ hasted unblockable Kill Shots, and almost never fails to land his burst if played alongside a D/P thief, as he is also capable of leaping their smoke fields, which, if playing with an OH pistol player, will often swap to Powerful Synergy prior to engagement and gain 6s of stealth by leaping the field with Savage Leap. Plenty of time to set up for a ranged OHKO as well. Maybe I conveyed my point poorly.

 

You're correct, but stacking stealth *is* the big factor here which contributes to the unknown, which is the point. Further, there are additional nuances which favor D/P's damage reliability, such as the lack of hit-dependence on its stealth access. When stacking OOC stealth is enabled, D/P gains significant additional value via the unblockable attack aspect of BV, which D/D variants will always have to weigh for pros/cons; a delayed use of BV for the backstab gives the opponent the ability to shut down the CnD via any block, also inherently shutting down backstab, and then the thief is still committed to melee without any advantages, or is required to use BV on the setup component of the attack, allowing the real burst to also be negated.

 

When you see the smoke field go down, you also have no idea if that field is being HS-finished once, twice, three times, or when within that 3-12s block (via SA which is not implicitly transparent) the attack is going to be made. With CnD, the attack is telegraphed to be within a much smaller window of possible time, particularly so with the ICD, and the failure of the kit (D/D) being capable of both giving chase and disengaging is why it continues to stay weak as a whole; other professions can supply similar or superior burst while offering better defenses or staying power, and in many cases, superior mobility.

 

Which is why I believe the issue is not inherently its damage on multiple fronts; if the damage itself were the problem, it wouldn't matter the source or context from which the damage comes, akin to Holosmith right now which is just simply dealing way too much damage on its abilities in Holo Forge given their relative safety; the argument that it's excessive stems from a damage reliability and safety standpoint due to a mechanic (burst from OOC or ranged/safe stealth) shared across classes which has proven to be the contention point for a lot of balance concerns and discussion over the years.

 

I'd love for this aspect of combat to be reworked - including buffing/re-designing aspects of D/P thief and Shadow Arts to promote healthier styles of play. It's just that the damage component of backstab is not the problem at hand.

[MUDse.7623]

as said above yes d/d power is way weaker than d/p. i just dont like that alot of your posts about this topic make it sound like d/d only has the option to backstab after a CnD, wich simply is not true - sure it might not be wise to use too many utilities for the setup. but on successfull execution it wont really make a difference for the recipient how you stacked that stealth.

changing d/p wont make power d/d viable and i highly doubt it will change much. people already mostly run in groups so as long as smoke + blast = aoe stealth and there are AoE stealth abilities, you will allways face stealthed instant death. changing d/p will only ensure even less solo roamers, no matter how unhealthy they play as long as they are solo, they are still alot better to face then a group.

there are still alot of posts about single builds that would be too strong or toxic in 1 vs 1 encounters but there is very little 1 vs 1 encounters so it is way more important to adress unhealthy class synergy, what classes can do in 1 vs 1 has very little importance.

 

 

[DeceiverX.8361]

I agree changing D/P won't fix D/D, which is why I've separately made proposals for fixes to D/D on numerous occasions via relatively minor changes to death blossom which would exclusively make D/D a more robust set.

 

Proposals to change D/P and stacked stealth (SR, SA, etc.) are an entirely different beast which is designed to solve the unpredictable stealth burst problem plaguing multiple classes in the game and is not exclusive to thief or any one kit; D/P is just the biggest culprit because it requires the least amount of build investment to achieve this. And fundamentally, this is where those complaints are really stemming from; other professions have just as much burst potential with or without stealth.

 

Ultimately, that's the point I'm trying to address: Unhealthy play patterns, such as stealth from burst need to be removed. The burst aspect isn't a problem as proven by how ineffective D/D remains despite having exemplary burst. By getting these discrepancies resolved, the kits can be better normalized and healthier gameplay patterns can be established.

 

Nerfing MH dagger's damage in the form of backstab like people proposed above would require a total overhaul of MH dagger as well as the thief in entirety as it'd just strictly be ineffective as a kit otherwise.

 

And @"XenesisII.1540" and @"Over.2137" - MH Dagger was not buffed for sPvP viability with HoT. MH dagger was already a top-tier kit in sPvP with HoT's launch and prior to it; the damage was done for the sake of PvE and kept in sPvP because other classes' damage was still higher as well. With rev being as mobile as it was prior to its nerfs, it overstepped too much of the thiefs identity, so the AA chain buffs were kept, especially since so much of the defensive powercreep was also upheld.

 

The AA changes should have been undone a long time ago, but so would have needed the rest of the power creep be toned down to keep the thief proportionally strong in terms of its ability to actually kill things when +1'ing, but not killing people in only a few AA's.

 

It's the same reasoning behind D/P's continued relative weakness to S/D and the current meta since PoF: The windows of opportunity for MH dagger to work are generally too small, especially given sPvP's lower offensive stats relative to defenses in WvW (in damage dealer vs damage dealer scenarios) which are multiplicative in their impact for power/crit builds given lower values for power and ferocity across the board with unchanged base armor/toughness values.

[Aden.9306]

Actually, this didn't really ruin WvW. It was broken at launch. What you describe is more a straight pvp issue just spilling over to wvw.

[reddie.5861]

> @"MarshallLaw.9260" said:

> WvW changes are coming, PvP changes might be on their way(who knows).

> Half of people saying there is too much damage, other half saying bunkers are too durable.

>

> Lets say that we reduce outgoing damage and reduce the toughness of bunkers, we're just slowing the game down and many would just find that boring.

> If you play a glass cannon and you're used to risking your tiny healthpool to one-shot **some** players and suddenly you can't any more. Or you're a bunker able to withstand decent pressure but now you're barely managing tanking 1v1. Instead of having a wide range and variety between the two extremes, we are now closer with less variance. Instead of being able to be bright white or deep black we're now all similar shades of grey.

>

> If people feel that all classes are now better, with more of everything, then what is the issue? Everyone's been buffed, the game has evolved, if you're no longer happy to play - there are plenty of other titles. Looking at GW2 with rose-tinted glasses _"I remember the good days when every fight lasted at least 3 hours. Now the pace is too dam.n fast!"_ is perhaps not the way forward.

 

what they wanna change?

 

lets be honest, a squad with scourges and firebrands will completely wreck any given squad out there with not the same amount of firebrands/scourges

giving the fact that both are equally skilled..

 

scourges and firebrand have taking over WvW so hard...

oo look at me i corrupt all your crap from 900 range away while hiding savely behind a wall or w/e..

scourge should just be a "debuffer" in my eyes, no corrupting boons at all, why? because its either this or that atm scourge is cleansing debuffs/corrupting/pumping out conditions like no other

 

they could make core necro for example the corrupter

and reaper the melee hit like a truck and semi okay dmg on normal "stance"

 

firebrand for example is healing like no other just doesnt give a rats ass a bit of a firebrand can hold his own quite a while versus a bunch of randoms (talking about 10+ randoms)

 

core guard could heal but alone a core guard wasnt going to save his ass not even solo he would be able to take a roamer he would simply die

more core guards together could heal quite good but that was just an add on.

firebrand heals like a idiot does dmg like a idiot well its prolly the burns and on top of all that it tanks like a freaking idiot also..

 

 

why on earth would u want a rev/ele/warrior/mesmer/thief/ranger/engi in your squad when the above 2 classes can do everything 10 times better..

 

warrior bubble is easy to avoid and freaking obvious when its about to come so i wouldnt want a warrior over scourges.

 

 

need a massive overhaul in order to get other classes to shine a bit again..

 

 

PS: yes im aware that the above 2 classes arent exactly the best roamers/havoc toons but they can do it fine also who ever tells me they cant google power scourge it tears you a new 1 and even condi fool scourge will do it, firebrand nothing to say it will just go where he wants to go no1 stops him from doing so.

 

[Xillllix.3485]

> @"Odinens.5920" said:

> > @"Xillllix.3485" said:

> > I agree that the gameplay should be balanced according to risk and difficulty. The abilities themselves are ok, except Weaver which is a headache design.

> >

>

> I thought so too, until I started learning how to play one. Now that I've learned it enough to be decent at it I think it's the most fun class I've played in this game.

 

Weaver staff makes no sense. Burning retreat on a 5 seconds cooldown? It's frustrating as hell.

[Gemnaid.4219]

The problems go beyond those listed.

[Lobsters.3869]

Sigh.. I remember when d/d ele had 20 ppl hit cap and we'd literally zap into a zerg and down half of them all in one go. That was real balance! .... Now I just want to have more maps, bigger maps with more stuff!

 

Couldn't we have a larger EBG with every server represented? Would that break the server?

I see alot of people sitting around in keeps and towers, could we allow these people to decorate the keeps and towers with something akin to guild hall decorations?

[Odinens.5920]

> @"Xillllix.3485" said:

> > @"Odinens.5920" said:

> > > @"Xillllix.3485" said:

> > > I agree that the gameplay should be balanced according to risk and difficulty. The abilities themselves are ok, except Weaver which is a headache design.

> > >

> >

> > I thought so too, until I started learning how to play one. Now that I've learned it enough to be decent at it I think it's the most fun class I've played in this game.

>

> Weaver staff makes no sense. Burning retreat on a 5 seconds cooldown? It's frustrating as hell.

 

Well, I only play a staff build when in a group. I'm playing sword/dagger for everything else.

[Aeolus.3615]

> @"XenesisII.1540" said:

> Damage needs a buff across the board and nothing needs to be nerfed, considering thief has multiple one shot skills and from stealth, there are other glass specs who don't even have one one shot skill nevermind stealth, this needs to be addressed as every spec should be given the same access to damage as well as stealth if they are going to run as glass.

 

Damage needs to be increased.. while many players think damage is to high, maybe alot of players think damage needs to reduced since they m8 be complaining about how easy is to stack aoe/cleaves, maybe damage needs to be increased but game needs to be more single target hit gameplay then cleave with high damage or aoe spam targets, wich would make players know what and how to hit targets then expect to damage several targets at once with equal damage most of times.

 

Still mobs in pve are complete designed to be aoe/cleave spammed. wich is how the game is ment to be played, and that will always force how classes behave in pvp as well, no matter how ANet try to balance the skill design to work in pvp... the pve spam wide area damage being from cleave or aoe is still there...

 

[Warlord.9074]

> @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > @"XenesisII.1540" said:

> > Damage needs a buff across the board and nothing needs to be nerfed, considering thief has multiple one shot skills and from stealth, there are other glass specs who don't even have one one shot skill nevermind stealth, this needs to be addressed as every spec should be given the same access to damage as well as stealth if they are going to run as glass.

>

> Damage needs to be increased.. while many players think damage is to high, maybe alot of players think damage needs to reduced since they m8 be complaining about how easy is to stack aoe/cleaves, maybe damage needs to be increased but game needs to be more single target hit gameplay then cleave with high damage or aoe spam targets, wich would make players know what and how to hit targets then expect to damage several targets at once with equal damage most of times.

>

> Still mobs in pve are complete designed to be aoe/cleave spammed. wich is how the game is ment to be played, and that will always force how classes behave in pvp as well, no matter how ANet try to balance the skill design to work in pvp... the pve spam wide area damage being from cleave or aoe is still there...

>

 

Damage has been increased gradually since the beginning of the game, and will continue to increase most likely. while I don't agree that simply increasing damage and reducing cleave and AOE is a way to balance a game or even would make the game fun. The issue isn't so much the damage although I do believe there are some way overturned skills. We also know that damage is not equal among the classes but this is not PVE. You do not measure PVP combat balance based on DPS a meter. However a PVE DPS meter could indicate symptoms of overturned damage on particular classes.

 

The issue really is how brain dead it is to do such damage on certain classes, so I think that we can agree that more single target and less cleave would be less brain dead I just don't think thats the solution. Like I think no one should be able to roll their face across a keyboard to play this game especially in PVP. Maybe thats ok in PVE. Thats the problem with this game.

[SkyShroud.2865]

The game simply moved on or do you prefer to be the same as first two years when WREN is the meta?

 

With the change of meta, necessity of population balance becomes prominent.

[Warlord.9074]

> @"SkyShroud.2865" said:

> The game simply moved on or do you prefer to be the same as first two years when WREN is the meta?

>

> With the change of meta, necessity of population balance becomes prominent.

 

I think you mean the GWEN meta not WREN. No thats not what this thread is about. More classes have now moved into META and wanted by organized groups now, which is good for the health of the game.

 

However the game has also become very PUG orientated and less organized groups and big guilds than before. So if you are just pugging I think that group comp metas are not even a thing.

 

If its a organized guild comp I think there are still a lot of restrictions on classes and builds that not much has changed. Most guilds still dont want thief's and rangers, and engineers in their comps at least serious ones. So Like no much has changed other than the guild fight scene has deteriorated.

[SkyShroud.2865]

> @"Warlord.9074" said:

> > @"SkyShroud.2865" said:

> > The game simply moved on or do you prefer to be the same as first two years when WREN is the meta?

> >

> > With the change of meta, necessity of population balance becomes prominent.

>

> I think you mean the GWEN meta not WREN. No thats not what this thread is about. More classes have now moved into META and wanted by organized groups now, which is good for the health of the game.

>

> However the game has also become very PUG orientated and less organized groups and big guilds than before. So if you are just pugging I think that group comp metas are not even a thing.

>

> If its a organized guild comp I think there are still a lot of restrictions on classes and builds that not much has changed. Most guilds still dont want thief's and rangers in their comps. So Like no much has changed other than the guild fight scene has deteriorated.

 

Oh yea, is gwen, I wonder why I thought of the little bird.

 

It is understandable why people complains about the dps since compare to the past, you have to react a bit more faster else dead meat. Thus, fights usually get decided rather fast since most people generally don't react that fast and react the same way. Still, game moved on. The high dps is a fundamental issue that can't be fixed since the game already decided to not raise the level cap thus the stats are not keeping up, making the scaling off the initial mathematical design.

[Warlord.9074]

> @"SkyShroud.2865" said:

> > @"Warlord.9074" said:

> > > @"SkyShroud.2865" said:

> > > The game simply moved on or do you prefer to be the same as first two years when WREN is the meta?

> > >

> > > With the change of meta, necessity of population balance becomes prominent.

> >

> > I think you mean the GWEN meta not WREN. No thats not what this thread is about. More classes have now moved into META and wanted by organized groups now, which is good for the health of the game.

> >

> > However the game has also become very PUG orientated and less organized groups and big guilds than before. So if you are just pugging I think that group comp metas are not even a thing.

> >

> > If its a organized guild comp I think there are still a lot of restrictions on classes and builds that not much has changed. Most guilds still dont want thief's and rangers in their comps. So Like no much has changed other than the guild fight scene has deteriorated.

>

> Oh yea, is gwen, I wonder why I thought of the little bird.

>

> It is understandable why people complains about the dps since compare to the past, you have to react a bit more faster else dead meat. Thus, fights usually get decided rather fast since most people generally don't react that fast and react the same way. Still, game moved on. The high dps is a fundamental issue that can't be fixed since the game already decided to not raise the level cap thus the stats are not keeping up, making the scaling off the initial mathematical design.

 

Err people arn't necessarily complaining about damage being too high, the complaint is the brain dead and skill less application of it. Passive gameplay, get out of jail free cards, low risk and low skill floor. Scourge/FB trains right now is the current meta. It cant be anymore simple to play. Can play with eyes closed. Push a couple buttons and win.