Experiment: Remove DOWNED mechanic in sPvP for a week

[pah.4931]

After the season is over, I think it would be fun to see what PvP would be like without the Downed mechanic. So even if it's just for a week or a few days... mix it up. No real reason. I'd just like to see how the games would play out. :D

 

Plus, I wanted to talk about something other than balance lulz

 

p.s. Personally, I don't mind the downed mechanic, but if I were calling the shots, I would like to see more generic downed skills (all profs have the same 4 abilities) in sPvP. Profs that can almost always avoid / delay stomps and require cleaving are just better than "interrupt" profs that are stomped with stab.

[shippage.1983]

no, downed mechanic is a great mechanic that is very unique to guild wars.

[BeLZedaR.4790]

I agree on the 2nd point.

But downed in general is fine and has strategy to it and a lot of risk/reward play with bleeding etc.

 

One more thing to add though is that rallies should only affect 1 player.

[Wolfric.9380]

I would remove rally not downed.

[Swagg.9236]

> @"shippage.1983" said:

> no, downed mechanic is a great mechanic that is very unique to guild wars.

 

*Downed is a forced, flavor-based, meaningless and misguided mechanic that is very unique to guild wars 2.*

FTFY

[XxsdgxX.8109]

I'd like those invulnerability frames gone when downing someone and one rally only per death.

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

Downed state is a huge part of pvp mode. Battles and numerous tactics around reviving/stomping, getting downed enemies off capture point, because they are still capping it, leaving downed enemies to bait more into a trap etc. A lot of depth goes down the drain if you cut that out. Also certain classes are balanced around having weak/strong downed state, which can lead to unbalance. So same as now, only in a different way ;)

[pah.4931]

I actually quite like the downed state (though, again, in PvP the four abilities should be the same for every class to make it better as right now the classes that you HAVE to cleave for a stomp in a race-to-rally situation are just stupid compared to the ones where all it takes is stab or blind to stomp proper).

 

This wasn't so much about removing it completely.

 

I would like to see how games play out differently -- or if they would at all -- with DOWNED removed. Just mix it up for a bit.

 

 

[Kako.1930]

I wouldn't mind bidding a permanent farewell to the downed state, but that's just because I'm not a fan of it lol.

[Shirlias.8104]

> @"Wolfric.9380" said:

> I would remove rally not downed.

 

I would like to try this.

[Jace al Thor.6745]

> @"Shirlias.8104" said:

> > @"Wolfric.9380" said:

> > I would remove rally not downed.

>

> I would like to try this.

 

I’d try but I think a better solution would be to put a rally range limit on it. That way if you’re in mid you can rally off a player death on far but can rally off someone who is stomped at mid.

[zalt.8937]

Agree with most here; same downed skills for everyone and either one rally/death or remove rally entirerly.

[Shirlias.8104]

> @"Jace al Thor.6745" said:

> > @"Shirlias.8104" said:

> > > @"Wolfric.9380" said:

> > > I would remove rally not downed.

> >

> > I would like to try this.

>

> I’d try but I think a better solution would be to put a rally range limit on it. That way if you’re in mid you can rally off a player death on far but can rally off someone who is stomped at mid.

 

Also this would be a nice change.

Or eventually a 5 sec buff for rally ( untill you attack the target you have your buff ), but it would mean a different buff per player attacked.

[vesica tempestas.1563]

why on earth would removing a high risk high reward mechanic like downed make a fight more interesting?

[pah.4931]

> @"vesica tempestas.1563" said:

> why on earth would removing a high risk high reward mechanic like downed make a fight more interesting?

 

Counter-argument would be having no downed state makes team fights even more high risk / high reward... right? Especially if you're a mesmer or thief or ele who can no longer cheese their down state to avoid a stomp or aid an ez rez. If I am downed and have NO CHANCE of being revived (in mid with a transfusion necro or a druid around to quickly rez you), giving 5 points and a potential snowball opportunity to the other team, I have to play WAY more careful. It also makes it much riskier to play a glass cannon build. On one hand, you can global an opponent and turn the tide but on the other hand, if you get caught out of position and you get globaled, your opponents take the advantage.

 

Also. To repeat. This thread is NOT advocating removing the downed state permanently. It is saying... "let's try it and see what it's like" for a bit. Like the "brawls" in WoW's battlegrounds. Mix it up to completely change the dynamic of a match.

[NICENIKESHOE.7128]

Because nobody gives a damn on scrappers or every single trait about down mechanics.

 

No, I doubt what you're suggesting will happen in GW2 at all.

[Majirah.5089]

I hate the whole downed state with a passion. I wouldn’t mind it being gone. Or at least get rid of rally.

[vesica tempestas.1563]

> @"pah.4931" said:

> > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said:

> > why on earth would removing a high risk high reward mechanic like downed make a fight more interesting?

>

> Counter-argument would be having no downed state makes team fights even more high risk / high reward... right? Especially if you're a mesmer or thief or ele who can no longer cheese their down state to avoid a stomp or aid an ez rez. If I am downed and have NO CHANCE of being revived (in mid with a transfusion necro or a druid around to quickly rez you), giving 5 points and a potential snowball opportunity to the other team, I have to play WAY more careful. It also makes it much riskier to play a glass cannon build. On one hand, you can global an opponent and turn the tide but on the other hand, if you get caught out of position and you get globaled, your opponents take the advantage.

>

> Also. To repeat. This thread is NOT advocating removing the downed state permanently. It is saying... "let's try it and see what it's like" for a bit. Like the "brawls" in WoW's battlegrounds. Mix it up to completely change the dynamic of a match.

 

its not mixing it up, its reducing gameplay complexity as a broad brush crude stroke to remove perceived use cases where its problematic. I like downtime, it offers strategic choices in a fight, and is rewarding when you pull one off, punishing if you choose to rez at a poor time etc.

[Darknicrofia.2604]

This suggestion makes as much sense as "remove dodging for a week" or "remove jumping for a week".

 

Its inherently part of the base combat system.

[Jace al Thor.6745]

> @"Majirah.5089" said:

> I hate the whole downed state with a passion. I wouldn’t mind it being gone. Or at least get rid of rally.

 

They need to make it so you have to be within... 800 range of the person stomped and recently hit them to be rallied. I can’t tell you how many times a mid fight has been determined by someone getting stomp and 2-3 people rally and wipe the other team.

[Swagg.9236]

> @"vesica tempestas.1563" said:

> why on earth would removing a high risk high reward mechanic like downed make a fight more interesting?

 

There is no risk associated with a guarantee. You don't have a chance or choice to go into downed state; you just get downed. There is no risk there. Moreover, the people who go to regularly rez downed allies in PvP deliberately gear up with passives and skills which isolate them from risk when reviving, making the process much more guaranteed. Downed in GW2 is not a risk or a reward in any circumstance; it's a forced meme and a general annoyance.

[vesica tempestas.1563]

> @"Swagg.9236" said:

> > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said:

> > why on earth would removing a high risk high reward mechanic like downed make a fight more interesting?

>

> There is no risk associated with a guarantee. You don't have a chance or choice to go into downed state; you just get downed. There is no risk there. Moreover, the people who go to regularly rez downed allies in PvP deliberately gear up with passives and skills which isolate them from risk when reviving, making the process much more guaranteed. Downed in GW2 is not a risk or a reward in any circumstance; it's a forced meme and a general annoyance.

 

ah im not talking about the downed person, obviously there is no risk/reward there. I'm talking about the typically built pvp player who wants to rez someone at the potential disastrous cost associated with being immobile next to a huge target. People who (strange and unlikely as it is) decide to setup for rezzing..well they are reacting to the additional gameplay choice offered as well in a different way because they see value in it. Theres a billion other games where you die..you timeout..you rez. Having something different is good otherwise every game becomes a cookie cutter dull copy of each other.

 

[sephiroth.4217]

Yes, remove down state so that my burst 100-0 builds have no drawbacks after using the burst, I dislike the enemy rezzing their players.

[bLind.6278]

I'd be okay with removing rally. If you want to bring someone back from downed state, you need to help them up. Rally should go.

[Swagg.9236]

> @"vesica tempestas.1563" said:

> > @"Swagg.9236" said:

> > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said:

> > > why on earth would removing a high risk high reward mechanic like downed make a fight more interesting?

> >

> > There is no risk associated with a guarantee. You don't have a chance or choice to go into downed state; you just get downed. There is no risk there. Moreover, the people who go to regularly rez downed allies in PvP deliberately gear up with passives and skills which isolate them from risk when reviving, making the process much more guaranteed. Downed in GW2 is not a risk or a reward in any circumstance; it's a forced meme and a general annoyance.

>

> ah im not talking about the downed person, obviously there is no risk/reward there. I'm talking about the typically built pvp player who wants to rez someone at the potential disastrous cost associated with being immobile next to a huge target. People who (strange and unlikely as it is) decide to setup for rezzing..well they are reacting to the additional gameplay choice offered as well in a different way because they see value in it. Theres a billion other games where you die..you timeout..you rez. Having something different is good otherwise every game becomes a cookie cutter dull copy of each other.

>

 

Like I said before, players who consistently go for rezzes build to do that in order to make the risk not so much of a risk. Thus not getting the rez is more of a failure than any reward.

 

As for "different games are good," design variance *can* be good, but only if the different designs are different for well thought-out reasons. Downed state feels entirely more like a marketing-centric afterthought rather than something the game was designed around. The amount of skills and traits related to downed state, for instance, are almost non-existent when weighed against the remaining body of options (especially if you looked at that situation at launch). PvE has almost no enemies with downed state. Moreover, the downed state had bugs at launch (particularly related to necro life force pools). All of this taken together draws a up the reality of downed state as a stapled-on addition rather than something conceived as a core gameplay element. It'd be easy to cull it from the game, and the only thing that people would probably ask for in return would be a global damage nerf. That's not the hallmark of a fundamental game mechanic.