WHIRLING DEFENSE should be moving skill and not a "Sitting Duck"

[DeceiverX.8361]

> @"Substance E.4852" said:

> > @"DeceiverX.8361" said:

> > I'm just thinking of how silly the combos would be. Something like Longbow + A/A Raven SB. PBS/RF standard combo to force stab/proc immunity/stunbreak 1 or they die, follow-up with Raven Swoop into Prelude Lash to force a second stunbreak and cleanse, then time any residual boons with Axe 4 + QZ into WD is a guaranteed follow-through and CC while your opponent burned everything to get past the initial assault and literally cant outrun a super-sped hundred blades with higher range and +50% more damage.

>

> Implying a mobile version wouldn't see a damage pvp nerf the same that whirling axe did.

 

Which is literally what I said in my very first post would be necessary, and people retaliated by claiming I don't want the weapon to be good.

 

The skill does too much damage to justify mobility, especially in conjunction with QZ. But I don't think it'd then fulfill its identity very well if its damage got cut down to acceptable measures, and it'd just end up a homogenized version of WA on warrior.

 

As for other people claiming to make it "unaffected" by superspeed... I have no idea if that limitation is readily available and even still it changes the identity of the skill from how it's supposed to function which is why I'm generally not really a fan.

[Dragonzhunter.8506]

> @"Darkened.4076" said:

> You might want the skill to be mobile, but that doesn't change the fact that the skill would then become subject to homogenization, and thus damage it's identity and the game as a whole.

 

Not rly, because like I said before, WA of warrior do almost the same damage ... so I can trade WD for WA

 

> I agree it needs something additional, and I have stated what that is. It should not be movement. If you want movement in with an axe skill, you can play warrior :)

 

This is not an answer, but a joke. Following your advise it's like we should keep Ranger exactly like it is atm, without any changes (pet swap in beastmode, buff on main dagger, buff to condi build ) ... because if you want any ... you should play other class instead, who already have one or more of your wishes already buffed .... So, please don't say that ever.

[Darkened.4076]

> @"Dragonzhunter.8506" said:

> > @"Darkened.4076" said:

> > You might want the skill to be mobile, but that doesn't change the fact that the skill would then become subject to homogenization, and thus damage it's identity and the game as a whole.

>

> Not rly, because like I said before, WA of warrior do almost the same damage ... so I can trade WD for WA

>

> > I agree it needs something additional, and I have stated what that is. It should not be movement. If you want movement in with an axe skill, you can play warrior :)

>

> This is not an answer, but a joke. Following your advise it's like we should keep Ranger exactly like it is atm, without any changes (pet swap in beastmode, buff on main dagger, buff to condi build ) ... because if you want any ... you should play other class instead, who already have one or more of your wishes already buffed .... So, please don't say that ever.

 

Going round in circles is not going to change the fact, that if the skill WD has movement added to it, it IS subject to class homogenization - which is what LITERALLY helps to kill a class/profession and an MMO. Also my answer is well considered response to yours. Insulting me, and saying that my point of view is a 'joke' is not constructive to the conversation, just because it isn't going your way. I also have not at any point mentioned that the ranger class as a whole should not receive developments, so do not put words in my mouth.

 

The idea of adding the block to the skill does everything. It keeps the skills identity. It buffs the skill slightly without making it OP, but makes it more usable in different game-modes. That is all it needs. I merely said if you want the skill incarnation that you would like to see, then warrior is an option for you.

 

Everyone in this thread gets that you want the skill to be usable whilst moving because you think that WD is missing something. We both agree that the skill is missing something, but we disagree on its solution. I am entitled to my opinion.

[Dragonzhunter.8506]

> @"Darkened.4076" said:

>Insulting me, and saying that my point of view is a 'joke' is not constructive to the conversation, just because it isn't going your way. I also have not at any point mentioned that the ranger class as a whole should not receive developments, so do not put words in my mouth.

>

I didn't insult you, I said that your advise for me to play warrior if I want a moving axe skill is a joke, and I keep my saying. I didn't send you to play guardian or other class if you want a ranger skill to block. I didn't put words in your mouth, I just pointed out what your advise sounded .

 

> The idea of adding the block to the skill does everything. It keeps the skills identity. It buffs the skill slightly without making it OP, but makes it more usable in different game-modes. That is all it needs. I merely said if you want the skill incarnation that you would like to see, then warrior is an option for you.

>

Again this advise to play warrior ... so I think you are rude, not me ... (see my answer above)

 

> Everyone in this thread gets that you want the skill to be usable whilst moving because you think that WD is missing something. We both agree that the skill is missing something, but we disagree on its solution. I am entitled to my opinion.

I respect your idea regarding "block" and I didn't said is not a good one ... the fact you are not agree with movable WD, I respect this too, only thing I did was to put some example and test I did to prove that WD and WA do almost the same damage atm ...

 

[Darkened.4076]

> @"Dragonzhunter.8506" said:

> > @"Darkened.4076" said:

> >Insulting me, and saying that my point of view is a 'joke' is not constructive to the conversation, just because it isn't going your way. I also have not at any point mentioned that the ranger class as a whole should not receive developments, so do not put words in my mouth.

> >

> I didn't insult you, I said that your advise for me to play warrior if I want a moving axe skill is a joke, and I keep my saying. I didn't send you to play guardian or other class if you want a ranger skill to block. I didn't put words in your mouth, I just pointed out what your advise sounded .

>

> > The idea of adding the block to the skill does everything. It keeps the skills identity. It buffs the skill slightly without making it OP, but makes it more usable in different game-modes. That is all it needs. I merely said if you want the skill incarnation that you would like to see, then warrior is an option for you.

> >

> Again this advise to play warrior ... so I think you are rude, not me ... (see my answer above)

>

> > Everyone in this thread gets that you want the skill to be usable whilst moving because you think that WD is missing something. We both agree that the skill is missing something, but we disagree on its solution. I am entitled to my opinion.

> I respect your idea regarding "block" and I didn't said is not a good one ... the fact you are not agree with movable WD, I respect this too, only thing I did was to put some example and test I did to prove that WD and WA do almost the same damage atm ...

 

I said warrior was an option for you, not that you need or should play it. I was trying to point out, that the ability to seek, a moving Axe whirl, high damage ability, is already in the game. Its not a joke or 'rude' to point out that there are other options in the game that already provide what your asking of a skill, however, I understand that you might be very devoted to ranger and therefore want to stick with ranger. But, If another ability happens to be on another class, its on another class. Your right that you have pointed out that WD and WA have comparable damage, but if they add movement to WD, they pretty much become the same ability, which is literally the definition of class homogenization [the point I was making before], which is what I am against. Identity does matter - BUT - a skill should also have uses in different game modes.

 

Regarding the guardian comment. Whilst I have been lobbying for the ability to have a block on it in regards to this threads discussion of WD, I am also not 'requiring' it either, nor do i see it as the 'only' solution, but I do see it as a solution that would get the most use throughout all the different game-modes. If I wanted to block all the time, then yes, I would play Guardian and see that as an option for me. Maybe you didn't insult me, maybe I misread that, but your comments certainly didn't have anything new to bring to the conversation at that point.

 

I think we have to agree to disagree at this point and move on, as I think it may be a communication issue and misunderstanding. The focus should remain on WD, and any other suggestions people might have.

 

 

[Darkened.4076]

> @"DeceiverX.8361" said:

> > @"Substance E.4852" said:

> > > @"DeceiverX.8361" said:

> > > I'm just thinking of how silly the combos would be. Something like Longbow + A/A Raven SB. PBS/RF standard combo to force stab/proc immunity/stunbreak 1 or they die, follow-up with Raven Swoop into Prelude Lash to force a second stunbreak and cleanse, then time any residual boons with Axe 4 + QZ into WD is a guaranteed follow-through and CC while your opponent burned everything to get past the initial assault and literally cant outrun a super-sped hundred blades with higher range and +50% more damage.

> >

> > Implying a mobile version wouldn't see a damage pvp nerf the same that whirling axe did.

>

> Which is literally what I said in my very first post would be necessary, and people retaliated by claiming I don't want the weapon to be good.

>

> The skill does too much damage to justify mobility, especially in conjunction with QZ. But I don't think it'd then fulfill its identity very well if its damage got cut down to acceptable measures, and it'd just end up a homogenized version of WA on warrior.

>

> As for other people claiming to make it "unaffected" by superspeed... I have no idea if that limitation is readily available and even still it changes the identity of the skill from how it's supposed to function which is why I'm generally not really a fan.

 

Have aired my views re movement on this skill.

I was wondering though, whether you think WD needs something in addition to its current state?

[DeceiverX.8361]

> @"Darkened.4076" said:

> > @"DeceiverX.8361" said:

> > > @"Substance E.4852" said:

> > > > @"DeceiverX.8361" said:

> > > > I'm just thinking of how silly the combos would be. Something like Longbow + A/A Raven SB. PBS/RF standard combo to force stab/proc immunity/stunbreak 1 or they die, follow-up with Raven Swoop into Prelude Lash to force a second stunbreak and cleanse, then time any residual boons with Axe 4 + QZ into WD is a guaranteed follow-through and CC while your opponent burned everything to get past the initial assault and literally cant outrun a super-sped hundred blades with higher range and +50% more damage.

> > >

> > > Implying a mobile version wouldn't see a damage pvp nerf the same that whirling axe did.

> >

> > Which is literally what I said in my very first post would be necessary, and people retaliated by claiming I don't want the weapon to be good.

> >

> > The skill does too much damage to justify mobility, especially in conjunction with QZ. But I don't think it'd then fulfill its identity very well if its damage got cut down to acceptable measures, and it'd just end up a homogenized version of WA on warrior.

> >

> > As for other people claiming to make it "unaffected" by superspeed... I have no idea if that limitation is readily available and even still it changes the identity of the skill from how it's supposed to function which is why I'm generally not really a fan.

>

> Have aired my views re movement on this skill.

> I was wondering though, whether you think WD needs something in addition to its current state?

 

I said earlier a stack of stability on cast would probably do the trick to make it more useful without being overtuned or change the nature of the skill too much.

 

A full-on block is a bit excessive considering shield block skills are on the same cooldown and obviously deal no damage/don't zone/don't reflect innately.

[Wondrouswall.7169]

> @"DeceiverX.8361" said:

> I said earlier a stack of stability on cast would probably do the trick to make it more useful without being overtuned or change the nature of the skill too much.

 

Heh. I can just see all the cancelling done to get the stab and not even go thru with the skill. No-go from me.

 

I would almost rather they alter it like Swirling Strike (underwater Spear) where the animation is a single axe strike that can do burst damage at melee, and it then creates a lingering swirl around the player that reflects projectiles and moves with the Ranger for like 2s.

 

No more retaliation since it won't be a long channel, no animation lock, can attack while moving since it's only a single strike, the reflect utility remains, and there's damage still there and can be adjusted so it's not too crazy which could work wonders for Remorseless & Honed Axes in power builds.

[DeceiverX.8361]

> @"Wondrouswall.7169" said:

> > @"DeceiverX.8361" said:

> > I said earlier a stack of stability on cast would probably do the trick to make it more useful without being overtuned or change the nature of the skill too much.

>

> Heh. I can just see all the cancelling done to get the stab and not even go thru with the skill. No-go from me.

>

> I would almost rather they alter it like Swirling Strike (underwater Spear) where the animation is a single axe strike that can do burst damage at melee, and it then creates a lingering swirl around the player that reflects projectiles and moves with the Ranger for like 2s.

>

> No more retaliation since it won't be a long channel, no animation lock, can attack while moving since it's only a single strike, the reflect utility remains, and there's damage still there and can be adjusted so it's not too crazy which could work wonders for Remorseless & Honed Axes in power builds.

 

Fair point. Though it could be like 1s pulsing or something so there's a little more to it than a bulk stab+cancel.

I still think it deviates a lot from what the skill is supposed to do, but generally this is a lot less abusable than a mobile cast and probably easier to implement if given like a 1.5ish coefficient so it retains a few extra thousand damage and keeps its utility but doesn't become some oppressive AoE nuke tool.

[Darkened.4076]

> @"DeceiverX.8361" said:

> > @"Darkened.4076" said:

> > > @"DeceiverX.8361" said:

> > > > @"Substance E.4852" said:

> > > > > @"DeceiverX.8361" said:

> > > > > I'm just thinking of how silly the combos would be. Something like Longbow + A/A Raven SB. PBS/RF standard combo to force stab/proc immunity/stunbreak 1 or they die, follow-up with Raven Swoop into Prelude Lash to force a second stunbreak and cleanse, then time any residual boons with Axe 4 + QZ into WD is a guaranteed follow-through and CC while your opponent burned everything to get past the initial assault and literally cant outrun a super-sped hundred blades with higher range and +50% more damage.

> > > >

> > > > Implying a mobile version wouldn't see a damage pvp nerf the same that whirling axe did.

> > >

> > > Which is literally what I said in my very first post would be necessary, and people retaliated by claiming I don't want the weapon to be good.

> > >

> > > The skill does too much damage to justify mobility, especially in conjunction with QZ. But I don't think it'd then fulfill its identity very well if its damage got cut down to acceptable measures, and it'd just end up a homogenized version of WA on warrior.

> > >

> > > As for other people claiming to make it "unaffected" by superspeed... I have no idea if that limitation is readily available and even still it changes the identity of the skill from how it's supposed to function which is why I'm generally not really a fan.

> >

> > Have aired my views re movement on this skill.

> > I was wondering though, whether you think WD needs something in addition to its current state?

>

> I said earlier a stack of stability on cast would probably do the trick to make it more useful without being overtuned or change the nature of the skill too much.

>

> A full-on block is a bit excessive considering shield block skills are on the same cooldown and obviously deal no damage/don't zone/don't reflect innately.

 

WD doesn't reflect, it merely blocks incoming projectiles [unless I'm missing something here?], so developing the skill to a full block would be more a QOL change.

As previously mentioned, the idea that you cast it once, and it follows around you like a cutting zephyr [for the same duration and damage] is a kool one. I also think your idea of stability is good as well [though, the ranger does already have decent access to their own stability]. To counter the concerns on that being OP, it could be pulsing stability, rather than an upfront stack. I'm not sure that would solve the issue of use though, maybe it would be enough.

[Dragonzhunter.8506]

> @"Darkened.4076" said:

> WD doesn't reflect, it merely blocks incoming projectiles [unless I'm missing something here?], so developing the skill to a full block would be more a QOL change.

> As previously mentioned, the idea that you cast it once, and it follows around you like a cutting zephyr [for the same duration and damage] is a kool one. I also think your idea of stability is good as well [though, the ranger does already have decent access to their own stability]. To counter the concerns on that being OP, it could be pulsing stability, rather than an upfront stack. I'm not sure that would solve the issue of use though, maybe it would be enough.

 

What do you mean "WD doesn't reflect? it merely blocks incoming projectiles" ?

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Whirling_Defense

This skill doesn't blocks any projectiles or damage, only reflect damage, but only for a radius of 150 units!!! So if an enemy is far than 150 units he will not get any damage from his shots ...

Don't tell me that we argue till now on WD and you didn't know these aspects ! Why do you think I said "Sitting Duck" ?

[Darkened.4076]

> @"Dragonzhunter.8506" said:

> > @"Darkened.4076" said:

> > WD doesn't reflect, it merely blocks incoming projectiles [unless I'm missing something here?], so developing the skill to a full block would be more a QOL change.

> > As previously mentioned, the idea that you cast it once, and it follows around you like a cutting zephyr [for the same duration and damage] is a kool one. I also think your idea of stability is good as well [though, the ranger does already have decent access to their own stability]. To counter the concerns on that being OP, it could be pulsing stability, rather than an upfront stack. I'm not sure that would solve the issue of use though, maybe it would be enough.

>

> What do you mean "WD doesn't reflect? it merely blocks incoming projectiles" ?

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Whirling_Defense

> This skill doesn't blocks any projectiles or damage, only reflect damage, but only for a radius of 150 units!!! So if an enemy is far than 150 units he will not get any damage from his shots ...

> Don't tell me that we argue till now on WD and you didn't know these aspects ! Why do you think I said "Sitting Duck" ?

 

I see it as discussion, rather than an argument.

 

Funnily enough, I had not noticed the reflect on the skill at all until you pointed it out [and i apologize to @"DeceiverX.8361" for that]. Ironically, though my language and thought was wrong about their not being reflection, but it actually doesn't change my overall point [precisely for the reasons you point out @"Dragonzhunter.8506" about its reflection radius], which is, at that reflection radius cap, the skill really is just more of a projectile block in that regard, as the reflection at that range is kinda pointless tbh outside of some extremely niche scenarios. If it's reflecting projectiles, they it will block the user from taking damage from projectiles as well, otherwise its the only skill the game I know of that reflects projectiles, but also makes the user take the projectile damage as well [which would not make any sense by its definition].

 

@"InsaneQR.7412" I have no idea myself about the reflection return for reasons above, but as @"Dragonzhunter.8506" has already pointed out, the reflection radius is 150, unless this is a tooltip bug? and it is indeed a straight up reflect to user if your saying you have seen damage return over [or at] 900 units away [if that is what you were saying?]

 

[InsaneQR.7412]

> @"Dragonzhunter.8506" said:

> > @"Darkened.4076" said:

> > WD doesn't reflect, it merely blocks incoming projectiles [unless I'm missing something here?], so developing the skill to a full block would be more a QOL change.

> > As previously mentioned, the idea that you cast it once, and it follows around you like a cutting zephyr [for the same duration and damage] is a kool one. I also think your idea of stability is good as well [though, the ranger does already have decent access to their own stability]. To counter the concerns on that being OP, it could be pulsing stability, rather than an upfront stack. I'm not sure that would solve the issue of use though, maybe it would be enough.

>

> What do you mean "WD doesn't reflect? it merely blocks incoming projectiles" ?

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Whirling_Defense

> This skill doesn't blocks any projectiles or damage, only reflect damage, but only for a radius of 150 units!!! So if an enemy is far than 150 units he will not get any damage from his shots ...

> Don't tell me that we argue till now on WD and you didn't know these aspects ! Why do you think I said "Sitting Duck" ?

 

It does reflect projectiles. I use it very often to do that. The description is actually wrong, you can see it in the patch history that the reflection radius got increased at some point so there is that.

I dont know if it behaves the same way in PvP but i assume it does so.

 

Do mean the projectile diatance that got reflected is 150?

Or the bubble itself. In PvE it feels more than 150 and aometimes about over 900.

[Dragonzhunter.8506]

> @"Darkened.4076" said:

>If it's reflecting projectiles, they it will block the user from taking damage from projectiles as well, otherwise its the only skill the game I know of that reflects projectiles, but also makes the user take the projectile damage as well [which would not make any sense by its definition].

>

Nope, retaliation only reflect incoming damage back to its source but you still get damage from that damage. Instead the damage reflected to source is not equal with damage you take, but it's less .

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Retaliation

 

 

> @"InsaneQR.7412" said:

> It does reflect projectiles. I use it very often to do that. The description is actually wrong, you can see it in the patch history that the reflection radius got increased at some point so there is that.

> I dont know if it behaves the same way in PvP but i assume it does so.

>

> Do mean the projectile diatance that got reflected is 150?

> Or the bubble itself. In PvE it feels more than 150 and aometimes about over 900.

 

Yes, I am pretty sure that distance that got reflected is 150 ... but maybe I am wrong.

But the main idea is that retaliation didn't mitigate the damage you take (even is projectiles or not) , you still get the damage, but also the enemy take some damage (less) from his shots.

[InsaneQR.7412]

> @"Dragonzhunter.8506" said:

 

> Yes, I am pretty sure that distance that got reflected is 150 ... but maybe I am wrong.

> But the main idea is that retaliation didn't mitigate the damage you take (even is projectiles or not) , you still get the damage, but also the enemy take some damage (less) from his shots.

 

The reflected shots dont do dmg except the enemy is standing to near to you or has unblockable projectiles.

I can stand in between 6 MK2 golems of the inquest all shooting simultaniously. Golems die i dont get a scrath.

As i said i dont know how it behaves in PvP but in PvE it fully reflects.

The dmg you get from melee is partially reflected by retal thats true. Because retal scales different in PvP and PvE i cant say anything about that either. Only that it depends on your own power, reflected shots behave the same way so that they scale with your stats

.

But thats now more an education route than the actual discussion. But as far as i see it no one moves an inch from its position and we agree to disagree.

[Dragonzhunter.8506]

> @"InsaneQR.7412" said:

> The reflected shots dont do dmg except the enemy is standing to near to you or has unblockable projectiles.

 

You have right, I tested few minutes ago too. Everything is projectile it will be reflected and you don't get damage if that projectile is not unblockable.

Still are few skills projectile type, so in most of the scenario WD is not a defensive skill (even it's called Whirling Defense :) )

 

> I can stand in between 6 MK2 golems of the inquest all shooting simultaniously. Golems die i dont get a scrath.

> As i said i dont know how it behaves in PvP but in PvE it fully reflects.

> The dmg you get from melee is partially reflected by retal thats true. Because retal scales different in PvP and PvE i cant say anything about that either. Only that it depends on your own power, reflected shots behave the same way so that they scale with your stats

> .

> But thats now more an education route than the actual discussion. But as far as i see it no one moves an inch from its position and we agree to disagree.

Now I moved more than an inch ;) .

[InsaneQR.7412]

> @"Dragonzhunter.8506" said:

> > @"InsaneQR.7412" said:

> > The reflected shots dont do dmg except the enemy is standing to near to you or has unblockable projectiles.

>

> You have right, I tested few minutes ago too. Everything is projectile it will be reflected and you don't get damage if that projectile is not unblockable.

> Still are few skills projectile type, so in most of the scenario WD is not a defensive skill (even it's called Whirling Defense :) )

>

> > I can stand in between 6 MK2 golems of the inquest all shooting simultaniously. Golems die i dont get a scrath.

> > As i said i dont know how it behaves in PvP but in PvE it fully reflects.

> > The dmg you get from melee is partially reflected by retal thats true. Because retal scales different in PvP and PvE i cant say anything about that either. Only that it depends on your own power, reflected shots behave the same way so that they scale with your stats

> > .

> > But thats now more an education route than the actual discussion. But as far as i see it no one moves an inch from its position and we agree to disagree.

> Now I moved more than an inch ;) .

 

We agree still on the same thing on the same side^^

Despite the fact that i gave you an educational detour about the skill is there nothing wrong about your statement or something i could disagree with.

I am totally in that we can move while WD is channeling. Its just that i am more on the PvE perspective here and would trade it off with something else to get it.

The comment about agree to disagree is mainly about the whole discussion that occured in this thread and the opinion of other forum members.

 

[Dragonzhunter.8506]

> @"InsaneQR.7412" said:

> We agree still on the same thing on the same side^^

> Despite the fact that i gave you an educational detour about the skill is there nothing wrong about your statement or something i could disagree with.

> I am totally in that we can move while WD is channeling. Its just that i am more on the PvE perspective here and would trade it off with something else to get it.

> The comment about agree to disagree is mainly about the whole discussion that occured in this thread and the opinion of other forum members.

>

 

Agree!

[EnderzShadow.2506]

> @"Dragonzhunter.8506" said:

> Whirling Defensehttps: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Whirling_Defense

>

> The main problem regarding Whirling Defense is the "sitting duck" stance. It is the only skill of it kind who make the player to be a sitting duck. Other classes can move when they do similar skill. Also the area for this one it is only 150 units. Every time the enemies just move 2 steps and then they just are looking at you how you spin like a fool ... almost they laugh on the whole period of your spinning. After you finish this show/spectacle (we must mention that we can't stop doing this ... the only way is to waste a dodge or another skill) they walk gentle near you and start again what they did before you use WD.

> I must mention that even when you put down someone with WD, you can't stomp him till the skill didn't get his whole spinning, again you must wait or use a dodge (in this way you move away of your downed enemy) or another skill and after that you can stomp him ... ofc if the enemy is still there.

 

I absolutely know I am necroing this thread, but the point still stands.

 

Whirling defense root can be a death sentence. I shouldn't have to stow weapon to cancel anything.

(Stow weapon has always felt like some odd exploit that was never intended to be a part of the game)

I always thought maybe it was because how hard whirling defense hit for.....nope.

 

I noticed something last week when I decided to level a warrior.

I have the tomes, but I went old school just for the experience.

Whirling axe in pve is some ridiculous dmg. And it reminded me of Axe 5 on ranger,

and I was triggered!

 

 

Lets compare the two abilities, whirling axe, which is axe 5 for warriors

and Whirling Defense, Axe 5 for Rangers.

 

First Whirling Defense

Block projectiles while damaging nearby foes.

 

Damage (12x): 2,904 (7.92)

Retaliation (4s): Reflect incoming damage back to its source.

Vulnerability (10s): 12% Incoming Damage, 12% Incoming Condition Damage

Number of Targets: 3

Duration: 5s

Attack Radius: 180

Reflection Radius: 150

Combo Finisher: Whirl

Duration-5 seconds

 

And now whirling axe

Damage (15x): 3,075 (8.388)

Movement Speed Increase: 50%

Number of Targets: 5

Radius: 130

Combo Finisher: Whirl

Duration 3.5 seconds

 

I know, initially Whirling defense looks amazing.

Dmg, Retal, Vuln, Reflection-- what more could a Ranger Axe for?

 

But lets compare to whirling axe.

Whirling axe hits 5 targets as opposed to 3 for whirling defense

Whirling axe not only allows movement, it gets a 50 percent movement speed

It also finishes quicker at 3.5 seconds compared to Whirling Defense

In 3.5 seconds it hits 15 times compared to Rangers 12 hits and it does more dmg

 

Ranger Untraited, Whirling Defense is a 25 sec cd

Warrior Untraited Whirling axe 15 sec cd.

 

So roughly speaking in 50 secs, I can use Whirling axe 3 times before a Ranger can use whirling defense twice.

 

 

/Cheers

 

 

[Eurantien.4632]

Yeah but... a warrior with off hand axe is gonna get wrecked. A ranger with off hand axe is gonna do the wrecking... so. Hard to validate this change whilst soulbeast is so strong.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

nope.

its the highest channel coefficient in the game, there should be a downside. it already blocks projectiles. maybe give it stability and resistance too along with your buff?

[EnderzShadow.2506]

> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> nope.

> its the highest channel coefficient in the game, there should be a downside. it already blocks projectiles. maybe give it stability and resistance too along with your buff?

 

Highest coeffcient aye?

Big words mate, thems mighty big words!

 

Although I dont think you are personally trying to deceive anyone, relying purely on 'coefficient' and nothing else, doesn't really tell the whole story.

You cannot walk away from a warrior while hes doing axe 5. Its going to push out the dmg faster with a 50 percent movement bonus.

Also, the cooldown of Warriors axe 5 is much shorter and it puts out the dmg quicker.

 

And @"Eurantien.4632" while I respect your opinion, all it takes is a patch and axe is used by warrior.

All it takes is a patch and Rangers WONT use axe.

I wouldn't base my whole opinion of Rangers axe based off of how stronk Rangers are with axe and how non meta is on warriors atm.

 

 

I took some time to do a few interesting tests.

The results weren't really what I expected.

 

First I took both classes and did the test with no sigils, no traits, no runes and no utilities.

Rangers whirling defense

3163 dmg

 

Warrior

3023

 

Pretty darn close.

 

Next I gave both optimal Axe dmg Traits as well as anything I could find to boost their power/ferocity and dmg.

This includes utilities as well. They both had zerk with scholar runes.

For the most part I just popped utilities and did axe 5.

For Ranger I used warhorn out of beastmode, used utilities, swapped to axe-- into Beastmode

then I used sicem.

 

So with all the buffs,

Warriors whirling axe did 18726 on a 12 second cooldown

 

And Rangers Whirling defense did 21056 and I really felt a big "I TOLD YOU SO MOMENT" coming on because thats not that

much of a difference between what Warriors do.

But I did a few more tests...

and I got Rangers axe 5 to hit for 46k. 3163 with nothing to 46k (of course the stars would have to allign to get this to happen in a match)

But yeah, thats the 'high coefficient' you were talking about.

 

 

I am more torn on this than I was when I first posted.

Ill say this, I'd be happy to have a bit less dmg, and without all the vuln/reflect if I could hit as reliably as Warrior axe 5

 

 

 

 

[InsaneQR.7412]

> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> nope.

> its the highest channel coefficient in the game, there should be a downside. it already blocks projectiles. maybe give it stability and resistance too along with your buff?

 

Only in pvp, in pve its WA from warrior.

If WD would do comparable dmg to WA in PvP it would be justified for movement.

Maybe abit more dmg if they remove the retal and vuln which are kinda pointless eitherway.

[BlackBeard.2873]

I totally agree, this needs to be a mobile skill, and probably pull enemies in too like binding blade. Since you are whirling it should also evade the whole time AND reflect projectiles, and should fully recharge your endurance, and do 2x damage.

 

Boonbeast takes a whole half of a braincell as it is in pvp, it definitely needs to be EVEN stronger. Having perma all boons, 10s of spammable evades, excellent mobility, and burst-level of damage just isn't enough.

 

This is such a good suggestion, thanks OP!

[EnderzShadow.2506]

> @"BlackBeard.2873" said:

> I totally agree, this needs to be a mobile skill, and probably pull enemies in too like binding blade. Since you are whirling it should also evade the whole time AND reflect projectiles, and should fully recharge your endurance, and do 2x damage.

>

> Boonbeast takes a whole half of a braincell as it is in pvp, it definitely needs to be EVEN stronger. Having perma all boons, 10s of spammable evades, excellent mobility, and burst-level of damage just isn't enough.

>

> This is such a good suggestion, thanks OP!

 

I play boonbeast and I lost my half a braincell after reading yer post

/feelsbad

 

How much dmg does Ranger axe 5 do to a target that just takes two steps back?

Oh thats right, none.