zealex.9410 Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > No. Nope. No thanks. They’ve finally gotten the BLC to the point they’re worth opening. Nerfing them to protect player’s investments on the trading post isn’t a good idea. > > > > > > > > > > However if you're that concerned about player’s investments you can buy the Black Lion weapon skins I got ages ago as an investment. They never got very high since they keep being re-released so I’m sure you’d like to help me out here. I’ll sell them to you at 200% times current price. /grin > > > > > > > > So u are basically saying "they made something u can buy from the gemstore for rl money a great way to make gold pls dont nerf" But then again u cant buy better gear so this isnt p2w amirite... > > > > > > Actually, you can’t make gold from the BLC, unless you’re very, very lucky. What I meant was that getting the skin unlocks makes the BLC worthwhile. So no, you aren’t “amirite”. > > > > I made alot of gold because blc are so profitable now. > > In that case you should want them to stay as they are. > > Edit: did you make gold or did you make a profit after expenses? Because the two are not the same. Hmm how come? If i make profit i made gold :/ And no i dont think gemstore items should be so importand in the economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sombra.3246 Posted March 10, 2018 Author Share Posted March 10, 2018 > @"Neural.1824" said: > So, you didn't like the response you got to the demands you made in your previous thread, and you posted it again with different wording? No, if you actually took the time to read my other thread you would have read that that thread was specifically made to make a discussion about items I would like them to keep in the Black Lion Chests, and what items I think should be removed from the chests. This discussion thread on the other hand is specifically about the adverse effect some items are having on the value of items in the economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sombra.3246 Posted March 10, 2018 Author Share Posted March 10, 2018 > @"Pifil.5193" said: > > @"killermanjaro.5670" said: > > > @"Sombra.3246" said: > > > Lately I have seen a trend of items which people have bought as investments lose a large amount of value. > > > > > > > Any investments have risk, if people invest in buying or hording items then they have to be prepared to take a loss if the values drop. I don't see why anything should be done to try and increase the value of items just to guarantee a profit for people who might have invested in them. > > Exactly, personally I don't believe that anything should be done to the game in order to increase the profits some speculators make. The TP is not the game. TP is a big part of the game whether you acknowledge it or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sombra.3246 Posted March 10, 2018 Author Share Posted March 10, 2018 > @"Rauderi.8706" said: > Blaming drop rates for the drop in prices? > Please... Drop rates and drops are two different things. I was not even talking about drop rates in this discussion thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just a flesh wound.3589 Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 > @"zealex.9410" said: > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > > No. Nope. No thanks. They’ve finally gotten the BLC to the point they’re worth opening. Nerfing them to protect player’s investments on the trading post isn’t a good idea. > > > > > > > > > > > > However if you're that concerned about player’s investments you can buy the Black Lion weapon skins I got ages ago as an investment. They never got very high since they keep being re-released so I’m sure you’d like to help me out here. I’ll sell them to you at 200% times current price. /grin > > > > > > > > > > So u are basically saying "they made something u can buy from the gemstore for rl money a great way to make gold pls dont nerf" But then again u cant buy better gear so this isnt p2w amirite... > > > > > > > > Actually, you can’t make gold from the BLC, unless you’re very, very lucky. What I meant was that getting the skin unlocks makes the BLC worthwhile. So no, you aren’t “amirite”. > > > > > > I made alot of gold because blc are so profitable now. > > > > In that case you should want them to stay as they are. > > > > Edit: did you make gold or did you make a profit after expenses? Because the two are not the same. > > Hmm how come? If i make profit i made gold :/ And no i dont think gemstore items should be so importand in the economy. No, nope. You need to learn the difference. If you spend 5 gold and make one gold you “made gold” but you didn’t make a profit. Did you spend real money buying keys? If you did, how much gold would that have brought you if you had converted that money to gold instead? You have to subtract that gold you could have made from any gold you did make. (This is known as [Opportunity Cost](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/o/opportunitycost.asp)). Edit: example: let’s say you buy gems with real money. (100 gems is currently about 23 gold so one key, 125 gems, is ~29 gold.) You can convert your 125 gems to 29 gold or buy one key. If you make 10 gold with that key then you’ve exchanged your gems worth 29 gold for an item worth 10 gold. You lost 19 gold from that transaction. Did you spend gold buying keys? You need to subtract that from any gold made from BLC to determine profit. Did you do key runs? You have to factor in the time as opportunity cost is involved in that as well. At 15 minutes per key run, counting char creation and inventory management afterwards, that adds up pretty fast to real time that could have been spent doing other things in game which earn more gold. Also, did you buy a char slot that you’re using for key runs? That’s another cost, up to 800 gems, that you need to account for in your costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightofConduct.1693 Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 > @"Sombra.3246" said: > Lately I have seen a trend of items which people have bought as investments lose a large amount of value. There are a lot of factors that contribute to them loosing value. But the main factor are the items that were added as common drops in the various black lion chests and the implementation of the black lion statutes. > > Examples of items which have lost a lot of value are: > Living World Season 1 Items > Most dyes in general > Lodestones > Home nodes > > This has already affected the whole GW2 economy and most of the items effected will not gain the old value ever back again. > There are few things I think they can do to help fix the economy. > > These are things they should remove from the Black Lion Chests that are having effect on the economy: > 1. Remove dyes from common or uncommon drop! > 2. Remove Season 1 Memory Boxes > 3. Remove Large Crafting > 4. Remove Heavy Crafting Bag > 5. Remove Black Lion Material > 6. Remove Toy Miniature Eggs > > Another action that can be taken to help boost the economy is to give players more stuff to craft that will use more uncommonly used materials. The crafting has been heavily concentrated on Mithril and Elder Wood. There are so many other materials that could be used that people have a lot of and never use like silver or gold. > There has to be stuff in the game that will allow players to use their materials to make cool stuff without having to farm endlessly for them. > > In any case let me know what you think in the comments below and if you can think of anything that they can do to revamp the economy and not keep making stuff loose their value. > I agree with OP, I think removing these items would be a good start. I think it would also be a good idea to give us more diversified material sinks so that we can use more materials and thus make the demand bigger for certain materials which are not highly demanded at the moment. This could help remove some of the demand pressures on materials such as mithril ore and elder wood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightofConduct.1693 Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 > @"zealex.9410" said: > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > No. Nope. No thanks. They’ve finally gotten the BLC to the point they’re worth opening. Nerfing them to protect player’s investments on the trading post isn’t a good idea. > > > > However if you're that concerned about player’s investments you can buy the Black Lion weapon skins I got ages ago as an investment. They never got very high since they keep being re-released so I’m sure you’d like to help me out here. I’ll sell them to you at 200% times current price. /grin > > So u are basically saying "they made something u can buy from the gemstore for rl money a great way to make gold pls dont nerf" But then again u cant buy better gear so this isnt p2w amirite... I think you don't even understand what the OP was trying to say or the term p2w. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 > @"LightofConduct.1693" said: > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > No. Nope. No thanks. They’ve finally gotten the BLC to the point they’re worth opening. Nerfing them to protect player’s investments on the trading post isn’t a good idea. > > > > > > However if you're that concerned about player’s investments you can buy the Black Lion weapon skins I got ages ago as an investment. They never got very high since they keep being re-released so I’m sure you’d like to help me out here. I’ll sell them to you at 200% times current price. /grin > > > > So u are basically saying "they made something u can buy from the gemstore for rl money a great way to make gold pls dont nerf" But then again u cant buy better gear so this isnt p2w amirite... > > I think you don't even understand what the OP was trying to say or the term p2w. I think u prob didnt understand what i was talking about but ehh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > > > No. Nope. No thanks. They’ve finally gotten the BLC to the point they’re worth opening. Nerfing them to protect player’s investments on the trading post isn’t a good idea. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However if you're that concerned about player’s investments you can buy the Black Lion weapon skins I got ages ago as an investment. They never got very high since they keep being re-released so I’m sure you’d like to help me out here. I’ll sell them to you at 200% times current price. /grin > > > > > > > > > > > > So u are basically saying "they made something u can buy from the gemstore for rl money a great way to make gold pls dont nerf" But then again u cant buy better gear so this isnt p2w amirite... > > > > > > > > > > Actually, you can’t make gold from the BLC, unless you’re very, very lucky. What I meant was that getting the skin unlocks makes the BLC worthwhile. So no, you aren’t “amirite”. > > > > > > > > I made alot of gold because blc are so profitable now. > > > > > > In that case you should want them to stay as they are. > > > > > > Edit: did you make gold or did you make a profit after expenses? Because the two are not the same. > > > > Hmm how come? If i make profit i made gold :/ And no i dont think gemstore items should be so importand in the economy. > > No, nope. You need to learn the difference. If you spend 5 gold and make one gold you “made gold” but you didn’t make a profit. > > Did you spend real money buying keys? If you did, how much gold would that have brought you if you had converted that money to gold instead? You have to subtract that gold you could have made from any gold you did make. (This is known as [Opportunity Cost](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/o/opportunitycost.asp)). > > Edit: example: let’s say you buy gems with real money. (100 gems is currently about 23 gold so one key, 125 gems, is ~29 gold.) You can convert your 125 gems to 29 gold or buy one key. If you make 10 gold with that key then you’ve exchanged your gems worth 29 gold for an item worth 10 gold. You lost 19 gold from that transaction. > > Did you spend gold buying keys? You need to subtract that from any gold made from BLC to determine profit. > > Did you do key runs? You have to factor in the time as opportunity cost is involved in that as well. At 15 minutes per key run, counting char creation and inventory management afterwards, that adds up pretty fast to real time that could have been spent doing other things in game which earn more gold. Also, did you buy a char slot that you’re using for key runs? That’s another cost, up to 800 gems, that you need to account for in your costs. No i played with the gold i had and due to how easy it is to get stuff from blc since they made them basically throw things with gold value at you (Making these items plummet in terms of price) and i came out with a sizable profit. Hence "i made gold" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just a flesh wound.3589 Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 > @"zealex.9410" said: > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > > > > No. Nope. No thanks. They’ve finally gotten the BLC to the point they’re worth opening. Nerfing them to protect player’s investments on the trading post isn’t a good idea. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However if you're that concerned about player’s investments you can buy the Black Lion weapon skins I got ages ago as an investment. They never got very high since they keep being re-released so I’m sure you’d like to help me out here. I’ll sell them to you at 200% times current price. /grin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So u are basically saying "they made something u can buy from the gemstore for rl money a great way to make gold pls dont nerf" But then again u cant buy better gear so this isnt p2w amirite... > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, you can’t make gold from the BLC, unless you’re very, very lucky. What I meant was that getting the skin unlocks makes the BLC worthwhile. So no, you aren’t “amirite”. > > > > > > > > > > I made alot of gold because blc are so profitable now. > > > > > > > > In that case you should want them to stay as they are. > > > > > > > > Edit: did you make gold or did you make a profit after expenses? Because the two are not the same. > > > > > > Hmm how come? If i make profit i made gold :/ And no i dont think gemstore items should be so importand in the economy. > > > > No, nope. You need to learn the difference. If you spend 5 gold and make one gold you “made gold” but you didn’t make a profit. > > > > Did you spend real money buying keys? If you did, how much gold would that have brought you if you had converted that money to gold instead? You have to subtract that gold you could have made from any gold you did make. (This is known as [Opportunity Cost](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/o/opportunitycost.asp)). > > > > Edit: example: let’s say you buy gems with real money. (100 gems is currently about 23 gold so one key, 125 gems, is ~29 gold.) You can convert your 125 gems to 29 gold or buy one key. If you make 10 gold with that key then you’ve exchanged your gems worth 29 gold for an item worth 10 gold. You lost 19 gold from that transaction. > > > > Did you spend gold buying keys? You need to subtract that from any gold made from BLC to determine profit. > > > > Did you do key runs? You have to factor in the time as opportunity cost is involved in that as well. At 15 minutes per key run, counting char creation and inventory management afterwards, that adds up pretty fast to real time that could have been spent doing other things in game which earn more gold. Also, did you buy a char slot that you’re using for key runs? That’s another cost, up to 800 gems, that you need to account for in your costs. > > No i played with the gold i had and due to how easy it is to get stuff from blc since they made them basically throw things with gold value at you (Making these items plummet in terms of price) and i came out with a sizable profit. Hence "i made gold" I do key runs on a regular basis and have a good idea what the likely results of opening a BLC and the costs. I’m sure you “made gold” however If you do not account for your costs then I very much doubt you made a profit, _which is the amount of gold that is greater than what you spent._ >I made alot of gold because blc are so profitable now. Any argument that talks about “gold made” and profit but doesn’t account for costs is fundamentally flawed and inaccurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > No. Nope. No thanks. They’ve finally gotten the BLC to the point they’re worth opening. Nerfing them to protect player’s investments on the trading post isn’t a good idea. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However if you're that concerned about player’s investments you can buy the Black Lion weapon skins I got ages ago as an investment. They never got very high since they keep being re-released so I’m sure you’d like to help me out here. I’ll sell them to you at 200% times current price. /grin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So u are basically saying "they made something u can buy from the gemstore for rl money a great way to make gold pls dont nerf" But then again u cant buy better gear so this isnt p2w amirite... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, you can’t make gold from the BLC, unless you’re very, very lucky. What I meant was that getting the skin unlocks makes the BLC worthwhile. So no, you aren’t “amirite”. > > > > > > > > > > > > I made alot of gold because blc are so profitable now. > > > > > > > > > > In that case you should want them to stay as they are. > > > > > > > > > > Edit: did you make gold or did you make a profit after expenses? Because the two are not the same. > > > > > > > > Hmm how come? If i make profit i made gold :/ And no i dont think gemstore items should be so importand in the economy. > > > > > > No, nope. You need to learn the difference. If you spend 5 gold and make one gold you “made gold” but you didn’t make a profit. > > > > > > Did you spend real money buying keys? If you did, how much gold would that have brought you if you had converted that money to gold instead? You have to subtract that gold you could have made from any gold you did make. (This is known as [Opportunity Cost](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/o/opportunitycost.asp)). > > > > > > Edit: example: let’s say you buy gems with real money. (100 gems is currently about 23 gold so one key, 125 gems, is ~29 gold.) You can convert your 125 gems to 29 gold or buy one key. If you make 10 gold with that key then you’ve exchanged your gems worth 29 gold for an item worth 10 gold. You lost 19 gold from that transaction. > > > > > > Did you spend gold buying keys? You need to subtract that from any gold made from BLC to determine profit. > > > > > > Did you do key runs? You have to factor in the time as opportunity cost is involved in that as well. At 15 minutes per key run, counting char creation and inventory management afterwards, that adds up pretty fast to real time that could have been spent doing other things in game which earn more gold. Also, did you buy a char slot that you’re using for key runs? That’s another cost, up to 800 gems, that you need to account for in your costs. > > > > No i played with the gold i had and due to how easy it is to get stuff from blc since they made them basically throw things with gold value at you (Making these items plummet in terms of price) and i came out with a sizable profit. Hence "i made gold" > > I do key runs on a regular basis and have a good idea what the likely results of opening a BLC and the costs. I’m sure you “made gold” however If you do not account for your costs then I very much doubt you made a profit, _which is the amount of gold that is greater than what you spent._ > > >I made alot of gold because blc are so profitable now. > > Any argument that talks about “gold made” but doesn’t account for costs which offset profit is fundamentally flawed and inaccurate. > > Usually if someone makes an investment and that investment falls short then u could say " he lost gold". If someone makes an investment and that ivestment proves sucessful then u could say "he made profit therefor he made gold". So pls if i did lose money i would be te first to admit it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just a flesh wound.3589 Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 > @"zealex.9410" said: > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > No. Nope. No thanks. They’ve finally gotten the BLC to the point they’re worth opening. Nerfing them to protect player’s investments on the trading post isn’t a good idea. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However if you're that concerned about player’s investments you can buy the Black Lion weapon skins I got ages ago as an investment. They never got very high since they keep being re-released so I’m sure you’d like to help me out here. I’ll sell them to you at 200% times current price. /grin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So u are basically saying "they made something u can buy from the gemstore for rl money a great way to make gold pls dont nerf" But then again u cant buy better gear so this isnt p2w amirite... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, you can’t make gold from the BLC, unless you’re very, very lucky. What I meant was that getting the skin unlocks makes the BLC worthwhile. So no, you aren’t “amirite”. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I made alot of gold because blc are so profitable now. > > > > > > > > > > > > In that case you should want them to stay as they are. > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: did you make gold or did you make a profit after expenses? Because the two are not the same. > > > > > > > > > > Hmm how come? If i make profit i made gold :/ And no i dont think gemstore items should be so importand in the economy. > > > > > > > > No, nope. You need to learn the difference. If you spend 5 gold and make one gold you “made gold” but you didn’t make a profit. > > > > > > > > Did you spend real money buying keys? If you did, how much gold would that have brought you if you had converted that money to gold instead? You have to subtract that gold you could have made from any gold you did make. (This is known as [Opportunity Cost](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/o/opportunitycost.asp)). > > > > > > > > Edit: example: let’s say you buy gems with real money. (100 gems is currently about 23 gold so one key, 125 gems, is ~29 gold.) You can convert your 125 gems to 29 gold or buy one key. If you make 10 gold with that key then you’ve exchanged your gems worth 29 gold for an item worth 10 gold. You lost 19 gold from that transaction. > > > > > > > > Did you spend gold buying keys? You need to subtract that from any gold made from BLC to determine profit. > > > > > > > > Did you do key runs? You have to factor in the time as opportunity cost is involved in that as well. At 15 minutes per key run, counting char creation and inventory management afterwards, that adds up pretty fast to real time that could have been spent doing other things in game which earn more gold. Also, did you buy a char slot that you’re using for key runs? That’s another cost, up to 800 gems, that you need to account for in your costs. > > > > > > No i played with the gold i had and due to how easy it is to get stuff from blc since they made them basically throw things with gold value at you (Making these items plummet in terms of price) and i came out with a sizable profit. Hence "i made gold" > > > > I do key runs on a regular basis and have a good idea what the likely results of opening a BLC and the costs. I’m sure you “made gold” however If you do not account for your costs then I very much doubt you made a profit, _which is the amount of gold that is greater than what you spent._ > > > > >I made alot of gold because blc are so profitable now. > > > > Any argument that talks about “gold made” but doesn’t account for costs which offset profit is fundamentally flawed and inaccurate. > > > > > > Usually if someone makes an investment and that investment falls short then u could say " he lost gold". > > If someone makes an investment and that ivestment proves sucessful then u could say "he made profit therefor he made gold". > > So pls if i did lose money i would be te first to admit it... I don’t think you’re making a successful investment as I don’t think you’re accounting for your costs. If you are you can prove it. How are you getting your keys (what’s your cost) and what sort of profits do you make (gold made over costs). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > No. Nope. No thanks. They’ve finally gotten the BLC to the point they’re worth opening. Nerfing them to protect player’s investments on the trading post isn’t a good idea. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However if you're that concerned about player’s investments you can buy the Black Lion weapon skins I got ages ago as an investment. They never got very high since they keep being re-released so I’m sure you’d like to help me out here. I’ll sell them to you at 200% times current price. /grin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So u are basically saying "they made something u can buy from the gemstore for rl money a great way to make gold pls dont nerf" But then again u cant buy better gear so this isnt p2w amirite... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, you can’t make gold from the BLC, unless you’re very, very lucky. What I meant was that getting the skin unlocks makes the BLC worthwhile. So no, you aren’t “amirite”. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I made alot of gold because blc are so profitable now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In that case you should want them to stay as they are. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: did you make gold or did you make a profit after expenses? Because the two are not the same. > > > > > > > > > > > > Hmm how come? If i make profit i made gold :/ And no i dont think gemstore items should be so importand in the economy. > > > > > > > > > > No, nope. You need to learn the difference. If you spend 5 gold and make one gold you “made gold” but you didn’t make a profit. > > > > > > > > > > Did you spend real money buying keys? If you did, how much gold would that have brought you if you had converted that money to gold instead? You have to subtract that gold you could have made from any gold you did make. (This is known as [Opportunity Cost](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/o/opportunitycost.asp)). > > > > > > > > > > Edit: example: let’s say you buy gems with real money. (100 gems is currently about 23 gold so one key, 125 gems, is ~29 gold.) You can convert your 125 gems to 29 gold or buy one key. If you make 10 gold with that key then you’ve exchanged your gems worth 29 gold for an item worth 10 gold. You lost 19 gold from that transaction. > > > > > > > > > > Did you spend gold buying keys? You need to subtract that from any gold made from BLC to determine profit. > > > > > > > > > > Did you do key runs? You have to factor in the time as opportunity cost is involved in that as well. At 15 minutes per key run, counting char creation and inventory management afterwards, that adds up pretty fast to real time that could have been spent doing other things in game which earn more gold. Also, did you buy a char slot that you’re using for key runs? That’s another cost, up to 800 gems, that you need to account for in your costs. > > > > > > > > No i played with the gold i had and due to how easy it is to get stuff from blc since they made them basically throw things with gold value at you (Making these items plummet in terms of price) and i came out with a sizable profit. Hence "i made gold" > > > > > > I do key runs on a regular basis and have a good idea what the likely results of opening a BLC and the costs. I’m sure you “made gold” however If you do not account for your costs then I very much doubt you made a profit, _which is the amount of gold that is greater than what you spent._ > > > > > > >I made alot of gold because blc are so profitable now. > > > > > > Any argument that talks about “gold made” but doesn’t account for costs which offset profit is fundamentally flawed and inaccurate. > > > > > > > > > > Usually if someone makes an investment and that investment falls short then u could say " he lost gold". > > > > If someone makes an investment and that ivestment proves sucessful then u could say "he made profit therefor he made gold". > > > > So pls if i did lose money i would be te first to admit it... > > I don’t think you’re making a successful investment as I don’t think you’re accounting for your costs. If you are you can prove it. How are you getting your keys (what’s your cost) and what sort of profits do you make (gold made over costs). I am tho ^^ No need to prove it as i dont think the tp needs more ppl crashing the prices of items atm. But if i was to put numbers id say i made close to double of what i invested so i had close to 100% profit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just a flesh wound.3589 Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 > @"zealex.9410" said: > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > No. Nope. No thanks. They’ve finally gotten the BLC to the point they’re worth opening. Nerfing them to protect player’s investments on the trading post isn’t a good idea. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However if you're that concerned about player’s investments you can buy the Black Lion weapon skins I got ages ago as an investment. They never got very high since they keep being re-released so I’m sure you’d like to help me out here. I’ll sell them to you at 200% times current price. /grin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So u are basically saying "they made something u can buy from the gemstore for rl money a great way to make gold pls dont nerf" But then again u cant buy better gear so this isnt p2w amirite... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, you can’t make gold from the BLC, unless you’re very, very lucky. What I meant was that getting the skin unlocks makes the BLC worthwhile. So no, you aren’t “amirite”. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I made alot of gold because blc are so profitable now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In that case you should want them to stay as they are. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: did you make gold or did you make a profit after expenses? Because the two are not the same. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hmm how come? If i make profit i made gold :/ And no i dont think gemstore items should be so importand in the economy. > > > > > > > > > > > > No, nope. You need to learn the difference. If you spend 5 gold and make one gold you “made gold” but you didn’t make a profit. > > > > > > > > > > > > Did you spend real money buying keys? If you did, how much gold would that have brought you if you had converted that money to gold instead? You have to subtract that gold you could have made from any gold you did make. (This is known as [Opportunity Cost](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/o/opportunitycost.asp)). > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: example: let’s say you buy gems with real money. (100 gems is currently about 23 gold so one key, 125 gems, is ~29 gold.) You can convert your 125 gems to 29 gold or buy one key. If you make 10 gold with that key then you’ve exchanged your gems worth 29 gold for an item worth 10 gold. You lost 19 gold from that transaction. > > > > > > > > > > > > Did you spend gold buying keys? You need to subtract that from any gold made from BLC to determine profit. > > > > > > > > > > > > Did you do key runs? You have to factor in the time as opportunity cost is involved in that as well. At 15 minutes per key run, counting char creation and inventory management afterwards, that adds up pretty fast to real time that could have been spent doing other things in game which earn more gold. Also, did you buy a char slot that you’re using for key runs? That’s another cost, up to 800 gems, that you need to account for in your costs. > > > > > > > > > > No i played with the gold i had and due to how easy it is to get stuff from blc since they made them basically throw things with gold value at you (Making these items plummet in terms of price) and i came out with a sizable profit. Hence "i made gold" > > > > > > > > I do key runs on a regular basis and have a good idea what the likely results of opening a BLC and the costs. I’m sure you “made gold” however If you do not account for your costs then I very much doubt you made a profit, _which is the amount of gold that is greater than what you spent._ > > > > > > > > >I made alot of gold because blc are so profitable now. > > > > > > > > Any argument that talks about “gold made” but doesn’t account for costs which offset profit is fundamentally flawed and inaccurate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Usually if someone makes an investment and that investment falls short then u could say " he lost gold". > > > > > > If someone makes an investment and that ivestment proves sucessful then u could say "he made profit therefor he made gold". > > > > > > So pls if i did lose money i would be te first to admit it... > > > > I don’t think you’re making a successful investment as I don’t think you’re accounting for your costs. If you are you can prove it. How are you getting your keys (what’s your cost) and what sort of profits do you make (gold made over costs). > > I am tho ^^ No need to prove it as i dont think the tp needs more ppl crashing the prices of items atm. > > But if i was to put numbers id say i made close to double of what i invested so i had close to 100% profit. In other words no proof. Only unsubstantiated claims of profitability as well an empty claim that giving proof would crash a market (as if you have some sort of super secret Black Lion chest money maker that no one else has figured out). Come back when you want to back up your argument with more than empty claims and a disregard for your costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > No. Nope. No thanks. They’ve finally gotten the BLC to the point they’re worth opening. Nerfing them to protect player’s investments on the trading post isn’t a good idea. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However if you're that concerned about player’s investments you can buy the Black Lion weapon skins I got ages ago as an investment. They never got very high since they keep being re-released so I’m sure you’d like to help me out here. I’ll sell them to you at 200% times current price. /grin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So u are basically saying "they made something u can buy from the gemstore for rl money a great way to make gold pls dont nerf" But then again u cant buy better gear so this isnt p2w amirite... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, you can’t make gold from the BLC, unless you’re very, very lucky. What I meant was that getting the skin unlocks makes the BLC worthwhile. So no, you aren’t “amirite”. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I made alot of gold because blc are so profitable now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In that case you should want them to stay as they are. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: did you make gold or did you make a profit after expenses? Because the two are not the same. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hmm how come? If i make profit i made gold :/ And no i dont think gemstore items should be so importand in the economy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, nope. You need to learn the difference. If you spend 5 gold and make one gold you “made gold” but you didn’t make a profit. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Did you spend real money buying keys? If you did, how much gold would that have brought you if you had converted that money to gold instead? You have to subtract that gold you could have made from any gold you did make. (This is known as [Opportunity Cost](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/o/opportunitycost.asp)). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: example: let’s say you buy gems with real money. (100 gems is currently about 23 gold so one key, 125 gems, is ~29 gold.) You can convert your 125 gems to 29 gold or buy one key. If you make 10 gold with that key then you’ve exchanged your gems worth 29 gold for an item worth 10 gold. You lost 19 gold from that transaction. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Did you spend gold buying keys? You need to subtract that from any gold made from BLC to determine profit. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Did you do key runs? You have to factor in the time as opportunity cost is involved in that as well. At 15 minutes per key run, counting char creation and inventory management afterwards, that adds up pretty fast to real time that could have been spent doing other things in game which earn more gold. Also, did you buy a char slot that you’re using for key runs? That’s another cost, up to 800 gems, that you need to account for in your costs. > > > > > > > > > > > > No i played with the gold i had and due to how easy it is to get stuff from blc since they made them basically throw things with gold value at you (Making these items plummet in terms of price) and i came out with a sizable profit. Hence "i made gold" > > > > > > > > > > I do key runs on a regular basis and have a good idea what the likely results of opening a BLC and the costs. I’m sure you “made gold” however If you do not account for your costs then I very much doubt you made a profit, _which is the amount of gold that is greater than what you spent._ > > > > > > > > > > >I made alot of gold because blc are so profitable now. > > > > > > > > > > Any argument that talks about “gold made” but doesn’t account for costs which offset profit is fundamentally flawed and inaccurate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Usually if someone makes an investment and that investment falls short then u could say " he lost gold". > > > > > > > > If someone makes an investment and that ivestment proves sucessful then u could say "he made profit therefor he made gold". > > > > > > > > So pls if i did lose money i would be te first to admit it... > > > > > > I don’t think you’re making a successful investment as I don’t think you’re accounting for your costs. If you are you can prove it. How are you getting your keys (what’s your cost) and what sort of profits do you make (gold made over costs). > > > > I am tho ^^ No need to prove it as i dont think the tp needs more ppl crashing the prices of items atm. > > > > But if i was to put numbers id say i made close to double of what i invested so i had close to 100% profit. > > > In other words no proof. Only unsubstantiated claims of profitability as well an empty claim that giving proof would crash a market (as if you have some sort of super secret Black Lion chest money maker that no one else has figured out). Come back when you want to back up your argument with more than empty claims and a disregard for your costs. Oh well :> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > Translation: > "My account value on gw2efficiency is dropping so clearly the developers are doing something wrong" > Weird, my account value keeps growing. And I'm not investing anything, I'm just playing the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > Translation: > > "My account value on gw2efficiency is dropping so clearly the developers are doing something wrong" > > > > Weird, my account value keeps growing. And I'm not investing anything, I'm just playing the game. Nah the values droped massively with pof and how it butchered wood and mithril prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neural.1824 Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 > @"Sombra.3246" said: > > @"Neural.1824" said: > > So, you didn't like the response you got to the demands you made in your previous thread, and you posted it again with different wording? > > No, if you actually took the time to read my other thread you would have read that that thread was specifically made to make a discussion about items I would like them to keep in the Black Lion Chests, and what items I think should be removed from the chests. > This discussion thread on the other hand is specifically about the adverse effect some items are having on the value of items in the economy. Each thread has the same end goal: Removal of items from the Black Lion Chest that you personally don't like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pifil.5193 Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 > @"Sombra.3246" said: > > @"Pifil.5193" said: > > > @"killermanjaro.5670" said: > > > > @"Sombra.3246" said: > > > > Lately I have seen a trend of items which people have bought as investments lose a large amount of value. > > > > > > > > > > Any investments have risk, if people invest in buying or hording items then they have to be prepared to take a loss if the values drop. I don't see why anything should be done to try and increase the value of items just to guarantee a profit for people who might have invested in them. > > > > Exactly, personally I don't believe that anything should be done to the game in order to increase the profits some speculators make. The TP is not the game. > > TP is a big part of the game whether you acknowledge it or not. Never said it wasn't. I said that nothing should be done to the game in order to increase the profits some speculators make. The TP is there to support the game not the other way around. If someone buys something that they think will rise in value and it instead it falls well, that's not a problem that needs to be fixed. "The value of investments may fall as well as rise". I'm sure you've seen or heard some ads with that warning at the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauried.5608 Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 Also need to define the word investment. Investing in something usually means buying something with a view to getting a return on it in some defined timeframe, and in MMO economies most players want the timeframe to be as short as possible. Which is one reason why many items on the TP have a large variation in the buy and sell prices, as most players want instant gratification and would prefer more gold NOW, rather than even more gold next week. How many players would be happy for example with a 10% PA return on their in game investments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 > @"zealex.9410" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > > Translation: > > > "My account value on gw2efficiency is dropping so clearly the developers are doing something wrong" > > > > > > > Weird, my account value keeps growing. And I'm not investing anything, I'm just playing the game. > > Nah the values droped massively with pof and how it butchered wood and mithril prices. Yeah, but I'm not kidding. Recently my account value is steadily increasing (already higher than pre-PoF level) and I'm not doing anything special for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BunjiKugashira.9754 Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 > @"zealex.9410" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > > Translation: > > > "My account value on gw2efficiency is dropping so clearly the developers are doing something wrong" > > > > > > > Weird, my account value keeps growing. And I'm not investing anything, I'm just playing the game. > > Nah the values droped massively with pof and how it butchered wood and mithril prices. Values dropped massively with pof because pof had a huge deflationary effect. The prices of literally everything from gems to crafting materials dropped as people liquified their assets to get the griffon. Prices are steadily returning to normal now, so between pof's big deflation and now most accounts should have increased in value. Looking at my own account, ignoring the big inflation pre-pof and the big deflation post-pof, it's value is quite stable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matick.4132 Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 > @"Rauderi.8706" said: > > > Another action that can be taken to help boost the economy is to give players more stuff to craft that will use more uncommonly used materials. > > This I can agree with. And I look at FFXIV as something of an example. There are several crafting/provisioner quests that take stray materials in exchange for experience, reputation, and currency. ANet *tried* this with provisioner tokens in HoT, but of course it wasn't enough because it was limited to specific gear. > > We have Amnoon and Lion's Arch, two great ports of trade. So why aren't we trading? > First, find a way for GW2 to automate daily sinks based on market value. (Amnoon needs blueberries! Trade in 100 for a daily token.) > Then, make the reward for those dailies have both long term goals (armor pieces, outfits, minis, weapon skins... rotate them out for scarcity) and short term consumables (magic find buff, karma buff, special food, special enhancement, special stat boost that stacks with food/utility) or if we're feeling really ambitious, a gem or two. And this I can agree, too. :) There's so much you can or could craft, but there's no demand, thus no need to do so. You 'could' craft a ridiculous amount of low-level stuff, but nobody is buying it because the race is set for 80 and maybe halfway through you'll start to buy one or two things. My bank is full of unused materials, maybe I'll try and sell them but then... dunno. This trading thing could be a real way to make this game more interesting in terms of longevity. The only real trading market going on is of ppl using the BLTC as a stock market – and this isn't really of any interest, if you can't invest a good amount of money/gold to do so. And like the real stock market: boring. It takes the fun out of the game. Hell, it's even called 'trading company' so it'll be a shame to not use the full potential. Now that Elon is in place and probably (hopefully?!) the far, far away Cantha not _so_ far away... jup, this could be great, but also the trading between the inner capitols would make sense. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertthebard.8150 Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 > @"Malediktus.9250" said: > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > > @"Malediktus.9250" said: > > > With 5 years of inflation in between. That is nothing short of outrageous and an economist like John Smith would have never let this happen. > > John Smith would never say anything close to that. Economists are entirely agnostic on the idea of a "good price". He'd tell you that there are just "prices". > > > > > When Season 1 was gone and people asked for rerelease a high ranked Anet person said they do not plan to rerelease such items because it would be unfair to the people who played during Season 1. > > That's not exactly what they said, but even if someone had said that, a lot of players felt that was the wrong attitude, especially since ANet has said, emphatically, that they have no plans to bring back LS1. That would lock a lot of items away from people who had no opportunity to play it. > > > > > Now here we are. They got released and at unreasonable quantities too. > > What does "unreasonable" mean? They could have released just a few, which leaves the items locked. Or they could release them in bulk, so anyone who wants them can afford it. Or anything in between. Some players will prefer one side of that spectrum, while others prefer the other extreme. > > > Maybe price for the jetpack backpack got a bit out of hand with 10k Gold, but it is below 100g instant buy now. So the price could slashed by 99% and the item is more common than during season 1 times. > > http://www.gw2spidy.com/item/42406 As you can see that price is lower than during Season 1 now for both buy and sell orders. It was quite a rare drop from a LS1 dungeon at first, personally I never got it to drop for me. And I also did not own it when it was worth 10k gold, so in a way I would profit from the price drop now since I could buy in cheap. But the skin lost all value to me the moment this oversupply got introduced. > > Same with Mini Karka, it used to be very rare for a long time and one of my favorite Minis. Now it is back to its old price, just that the gold is worth like 10 times less now. > http://www.gw2spidy.com/item/37206 And the overall supply also seems to be 5 times higher now than during Season 1. > Now its not even worth displaying anymore. Stuff worth less than 1k gold is junk tier nowadays. > > I could keep this list going for the other Season 1 items, but why bother. People who like rare and expensive items seem to be the minority in this game lol. I'll tell ya' why: I've played MMOs where a new player takes one look at their version of the TP and logs out, never to return. When basic items list for billions of the game's particular currency, prices brought on by people who "like rare and expensive items" pricing items accordingly, new players can't get in. Despite what some of these people who "like rare and expensive items" might think, their lavish spending/charging of in game currency will not keep the lights on, and will not lead to a flourishing game. It leads to a dead game. As far as LS 1 items goes, if I don't have any accessible to get, they're not worth anything to me. I wasn't here, and it's not coming back, so I don't care about it. You can list them for whatever price you like, all I'm going to see is a vastly overpriced item on the TP, and I'll move on to a lower one if it's something I want, or just forget about buying it. As an aside to the vastly overpriced thing, it was discovered in one particular MMO that some of the people that were overpricing items were, in fact, working for gold farmers. I'm not making any implications or accusations here, just an observation from a couple of decades of playing MMOs. When I see a price jump on a single item that goes from 10 gold to a 1000 gold, for example, I don't think "ah, rabid collector", I think "ah, gold farmer". I've seen it be the reality, and perception is reality. If I think that's what's going on, I'm not buying the item anyway, because I'm not supporting a gold farmer, for any reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
preacher.9370 Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 if anything with BLC's, they need to nerf droprates for total makeovers, hair kits, upgrade extractors and transmutation charges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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