ZDragon.3046 Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 > @"OriOri.8724" said: > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > @"OriOri.8724" said: > > > > @"Kundry.1249" said: > > > > > @"Carighan.6758" said: > > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > I dont think you realized how strong of tool being able to perform offensive actions is while dodging its a very unhealthy mechanic and was overlooked or over shadowed by scourge instant condi bomb. Trust me no non mesmer main found that trait fair o balanced in anyway. > > > > > > > > > > I am perplexed by how you clearly didn't read what I wrote, and I even added bold parts to make it clear I'm not talking about whether old EM was too strong. It's PvP stuff, I couldn't care any less if I tried, even if I were paid to do so. Reached the limit. > > > > > > > > > > However, and again, as said before, EM is now a "trap trait". It's in an - AFAIK - unique spot where even ignoring the alternative picks, it's not a trait you want to select. You're better off without it. Many players will not know this. How is that good game design? Unlike the previous EM, which was a **balance** issue, this one is now a **design** issue, and should be pretty high up the priority list really. But then, if ANet cared, they wouldn't have used this specific nerf to it - because frankly, flat out removal would have been a much much smarter and better nerf to it. > > > > > > > > It's only a trap trait if you use it improperly. Helseth and Frostball are saying it's still OP. > > > > > > And this is exactly the problem with tacking exhaustion onto it! Why do people refuse to accept that exhaustion did nothing to fix the trait. You can still use it as a stunbreak if you _need_ to. Removing the stunbreak was the only way to address the actual issue with the trait > > > > Ideally this would have been the true fix to it. Yet people are going insane over the exhaustion which is imo not hurting or punishing enough for what it does. > > We are extremely upset over it because its a pointless nerf. It does absolutely nothing to address the only part of the trait that was overperforming. Yet it makes the trait a liability all the same. How could that ever be considered a good change? > > We are further upset because a great many of us were telling Anet how ridiculously broken EM was before the first PoF beta weekend even, and they ignored literally all of our feedback, all of our suggestions to fix it, and then tacked this on. Something that no one asked for, something that does nothing to fix the problem itself, and something that makes the trait significantly less fun to play with. We are upset over this for good kitten reasons. To be honest the dodge mechanic in itself over performs. EM just made it one step higher. Never in history have i seen a dodge mechanic that lets you evade so often and perform any other offensive action you want to at the same time. I dont think there is anything they can do to EM that would make it where the dodge mechanic wouldnt be over performing and thus they had to take it a step down rather than just compltely make it something new. Then again no one gets what they asked for with arenanet. No profession ever gets what it wants despite the communities that play that profession often having easy solutions to the problems with said profession. To be honest you shouldn't feel so bad you still have tons of other viable options that perform just as well at several different areas in the game un like some other professions who get forced changes that causes them to become locked into 1 part of the game or another and completely pointless in every other part of the game. So as much as all of the mesmers feel bad for EM no one else is going to feel as bad for you about it. Fact is mesmer/mirage is still plenty strong and viable with or without the current EM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levetty.1279 Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 > @"ZDragon.3046" said: >To be honest you shouldn't feel so bad you still have tons of other viable options that perform just as well at several different areas in the game The problem is that people like you don't want that. You get upset that you are not good enough to beat a Mesmer in PvP and you want it nerfed so it can no longer play any mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZDragon.3046 Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 > @"Levetty.1279" said: > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > >To be honest you shouldn't feel so bad you still have tons of other viable options that perform just as well at several different areas in the game > The problem is that people like you don't want that. You get upset that you are not good enough to beat a Mesmer in PvP and you want it nerfed so it can no longer play any mode. > Not specifically. I dont only lock myself into pvp like some do. Ideally though mesmers realistically do have far too much damage in pvp for all the escape and damage avoidance tools they have. In pve this hardly matters that much because you dont run those safety tools anyways. (insert causal shrug here) We both know mesmer will be relevant in this game to its very end at this point there is no denying that. That was made assured the moment alacrity became a thing which to this day is still mostly locked to the mesmer profession and sprinkled here and there on others. I mean lets consider a few things here, before you start jumping the gun and saying **"You get upset that you are not good enough to beat a Mesmer in PvP and you want it nerfed so it can no longer play any mode."** 1.Even if it was nerfed in pvp that has nothing to do with the other modes so your claim makes no sense. 2. **Can I beat mesmers in pvp?** - Occasionally yes. I can. Depends on if I can make the right move and figure out what they are doing. But usually its only if they over commit and I survive a good 2-4 burst attempts. **Is it easy?** - Nope..... Odds are I die on burst attempt 2 or 3 before they make a mistake i can actually punish. Or they use escape tools like stealth or ports to go out of combat. **Are mesmers fun to fight.** - This is debatable to to each person but maybe against another mesmer. - To me?, Absolutely not. Not in anyway, shape, or spec. - Its hard to have fun against something specifically when its carries super hard via busted mechanics. (that said im not saying everyone gets carried by it either) People like us dont fall into playing something they dont enjoy playing just to win the game. But if you love mesmer and its your go to profession sense launch power to you! :D People like us are not stupid enough to play a profession and not see that its has very unfair mechanics then pretend that we are the best ever because we can abuse those mechanics to no end. To be frank with you I just want to enjoy the game. In pvp specifically mesmers completely ruin any kind of fun its better for me to avoid fighting them If I can because I dont like playing video games just to be frustrated by them and having broken mechanics used against you is very frustrating. Yet at the same time you could say "Then just play a mesmer." But guess what I have and its not my cup of tea. Best thing I can say i like about mesmer are its sound effects and some of the specific animations it has unique to it only. ITs got some of the best if not the best sound effects in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levetty.1279 Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > @"Levetty.1279" said: > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > >To be honest you shouldn't feel so bad you still have tons of other viable options that perform just as well at several different areas in the game > > The problem is that people like you don't want that. You get upset that you are not good enough to beat a Mesmer in PvP and you want it nerfed so it can no longer play any mode. > > > Not specifically. I dont only lock myself into pvp like some do. Ideally though mesmers realistically do have far too much damage in pvp for all the escape and damage avoidance tools they have. In pve this hardly matters that much because you dont run those safety tools anyways. (insert causal shrug here) > > We both know mesmer will be relevant in this game to its very end at this point there is no denying that. That was made assured the moment alacrity became a thing which to this day is still mostly locked to the mesmer profession and sprinkled here and there on others. > > I mean lets consider a few things here, before you start jumping the gun and saying **"You get upset that you are not good enough to beat a Mesmer in PvP and you want it nerfed so it can no longer play any mode."** > > 1.Even if it was nerfed in pvp that has nothing to do with the other modes so your claim makes no sense. > > 2. > **Can I beat mesmers in pvp?** > - Occasionally yes. I can. Depends on if I can make the right move and figure out what they are doing. But usually its only if they over commit and I survive a good 2-4 burst attempts. > **Is it easy?** > - Nope..... Odds are I die on burst attempt 2 or 3 before they make a mistake i can actually punish. Or they use escape tools like stealth or ports to go out of combat. > **Are mesmers fun to fight.** > - This is debatable to to each person but maybe against another mesmer. > - To me?, Absolutely not. Not in anyway, shape, or spec. > - Its hard to have fun against something specifically when its carries super hard via busted mechanics. (that said im not saying everyone gets carried by it either) > > People like us dont fall into playing something they dont enjoy playing just to win the game. But if you love mesmer and its your go to profession sense launch power to you! :D > People like us are not stupid enough to play a profession and not see that its has very unfair mechanics then pretend that we are the best ever because we can abuse those mechanics to no end. > > To be frank with you I just want to enjoy the game. In pvp specifically mesmers completely ruin any kind of fun its better for me to avoid fighting them If I can because I dont like playing video games just to be frustrated by them and having broken mechanics used against you is very frustrating. > Yet at the same time you could say "Then just play a mesmer." > But guess what I have and its not my cup of tea. Best thing I can say i like about mesmer are its sound effects and some of the specific animations it has unique to it only. ITs got some of the best if not the best sound effects in the game. You didn't answer the main point. Why should Mesmer be nerfed in PvE because you can't beat it in PvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZDragon.3046 Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 > @"Levetty.1279" said: > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > @"Levetty.1279" said: > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > >To be honest you shouldn't feel so bad you still have tons of other viable options that perform just as well at several different areas in the game > > > The problem is that people like you don't want that. You get upset that you are not good enough to beat a Mesmer in PvP and you want it nerfed so it can no longer play any mode. > > > > > Not specifically. I dont only lock myself into pvp like some do. Ideally though mesmers realistically do have far too much damage in pvp for all the escape and damage avoidance tools they have. In pve this hardly matters that much because you dont run those safety tools anyways. (insert causal shrug here) > > > > We both know mesmer will be relevant in this game to its very end at this point there is no denying that. That was made assured the moment alacrity became a thing which to this day is still mostly locked to the mesmer profession and sprinkled here and there on others. > > > > I mean lets consider a few things here, before you start jumping the gun and saying **"You get upset that you are not good enough to beat a Mesmer in PvP and you want it nerfed so it can no longer play any mode."** > > > > 1.Even if it was nerfed in pvp that has nothing to do with the other modes so your claim makes no sense. > > > > 2. > > **Can I beat mesmers in pvp?** > > - Occasionally yes. I can. Depends on if I can make the right move and figure out what they are doing. But usually its only if they over commit and I survive a good 2-4 burst attempts. > > **Is it easy?** > > - Nope..... Odds are I die on burst attempt 2 or 3 before they make a mistake i can actually punish. Or they use escape tools like stealth or ports to go out of combat. > > **Are mesmers fun to fight.** > > - This is debatable to to each person but maybe against another mesmer. > > - To me?, Absolutely not. Not in anyway, shape, or spec. > > - Its hard to have fun against something specifically when its carries super hard via busted mechanics. (that said im not saying everyone gets carried by it either) > > > > People like us dont fall into playing something they dont enjoy playing just to win the game. But if you love mesmer and its your go to profession sense launch power to you! :D > > People like us are not stupid enough to play a profession and not see that its has very unfair mechanics then pretend that we are the best ever because we can abuse those mechanics to no end. > > > > To be frank with you I just want to enjoy the game. In pvp specifically mesmers completely ruin any kind of fun its better for me to avoid fighting them If I can because I dont like playing video games just to be frustrated by them and having broken mechanics used against you is very frustrating. > > Yet at the same time you could say "Then just play a mesmer." > > But guess what I have and its not my cup of tea. Best thing I can say i like about mesmer are its sound effects and some of the specific animations it has unique to it only. ITs got some of the best if not the best sound effects in the game. > > You didn't answer the main point. Why should Mesmer be nerfed in PvE because you can't beat it in PvP. Because i never claimed that it should be nerfed in pve just because its broken in pvp. Or so i dont think I did. If I did the point it out to me. Not to mention this whole post is started off of a change that only effected pvp and not pve. DO YOU REALIZE how out of place you are? I dont think you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levetty.1279 Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > @"Levetty.1279" said: > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > @"Levetty.1279" said: > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > >To be honest you shouldn't feel so bad you still have tons of other viable options that perform just as well at several different areas in the game > > > > The problem is that people like you don't want that. You get upset that you are not good enough to beat a Mesmer in PvP and you want it nerfed so it can no longer play any mode. > > > > > > > Not specifically. I dont only lock myself into pvp like some do. Ideally though mesmers realistically do have far too much damage in pvp for all the escape and damage avoidance tools they have. In pve this hardly matters that much because you dont run those safety tools anyways. (insert causal shrug here) > > > > > > We both know mesmer will be relevant in this game to its very end at this point there is no denying that. That was made assured the moment alacrity became a thing which to this day is still mostly locked to the mesmer profession and sprinkled here and there on others. > > > > > > I mean lets consider a few things here, before you start jumping the gun and saying **"You get upset that you are not good enough to beat a Mesmer in PvP and you want it nerfed so it can no longer play any mode."** > > > > > > 1.Even if it was nerfed in pvp that has nothing to do with the other modes so your claim makes no sense. > > > > > > 2. > > > **Can I beat mesmers in pvp?** > > > - Occasionally yes. I can. Depends on if I can make the right move and figure out what they are doing. But usually its only if they over commit and I survive a good 2-4 burst attempts. > > > **Is it easy?** > > > - Nope..... Odds are I die on burst attempt 2 or 3 before they make a mistake i can actually punish. Or they use escape tools like stealth or ports to go out of combat. > > > **Are mesmers fun to fight.** > > > - This is debatable to to each person but maybe against another mesmer. > > > - To me?, Absolutely not. Not in anyway, shape, or spec. > > > - Its hard to have fun against something specifically when its carries super hard via busted mechanics. (that said im not saying everyone gets carried by it either) > > > > > > People like us dont fall into playing something they dont enjoy playing just to win the game. But if you love mesmer and its your go to profession sense launch power to you! :D > > > People like us are not stupid enough to play a profession and not see that its has very unfair mechanics then pretend that we are the best ever because we can abuse those mechanics to no end. > > > > > > To be frank with you I just want to enjoy the game. In pvp specifically mesmers completely ruin any kind of fun its better for me to avoid fighting them If I can because I dont like playing video games just to be frustrated by them and having broken mechanics used against you is very frustrating. > > > Yet at the same time you could say "Then just play a mesmer." > > > But guess what I have and its not my cup of tea. Best thing I can say i like about mesmer are its sound effects and some of the specific animations it has unique to it only. ITs got some of the best if not the best sound effects in the game. > > > > You didn't answer the main point. Why should Mesmer be nerfed in PvE because you can't beat it in PvP. > > Because i never claimed that it should be nerfed in pve just because its broken in pvp. Or so i dont think I did. If I did the point it out to me. > > Not to mention this whole post is started off of a change that only effected pvp and not pve. DO YOU REALIZE how out of place you are? I dont think you do. A Necromancer comes to the Mesmer board to demand Mesmer nerfs for no reason and then accuses other people of being out of place here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curunen.8729 Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > @"Levetty.1279" said: > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > >To be honest you shouldn't feel so bad you still have tons of other viable options that perform just as well at several different areas in the game > > The problem is that people like you don't want that. You get upset that you are not good enough to beat a Mesmer in PvP and you want it nerfed so it can no longer play any mode. > > > Not specifically. I dont only lock myself into pvp like some do. Ideally though mesmers realistically do have far too much damage in pvp for all the escape and damage avoidance tools they have. In pve this hardly matters that much because you dont run those safety tools anyways. (insert causal shrug here) > > We both know mesmer will be relevant in this game to its very end at this point there is no denying that. That was made assured the moment alacrity became a thing which to this day is still mostly locked to the mesmer profession and sprinkled here and there on others. > > I mean lets consider a few things here, before you start jumping the gun and saying **"You get upset that you are not good enough to beat a Mesmer in PvP and you want it nerfed so it can no longer play any mode."** > > 1.Even if it was nerfed in pvp that has nothing to do with the other modes so your claim makes no sense. > > 2. > **Can I beat mesmers in pvp?** > - Occasionally yes. I can. Depends on if I can make the right move and figure out what they are doing. But usually its only if they over commit and I survive a good 2-4 burst attempts. > **Is it easy?** > - Nope..... Odds are I die on burst attempt 2 or 3 before they make a mistake i can actually punish. Or they use escape tools like stealth or ports to go out of combat. > **Are mesmers fun to fight.** > - This is debatable to to each person but maybe against another mesmer. > - To me?, Absolutely not. Not in anyway, shape, or spec. > - Its hard to have fun against something specifically when its carries super hard via busted mechanics. (that said im not saying everyone gets carried by it either) > > People like us dont fall into playing something they dont enjoy playing just to win the game. But if you love mesmer and its your go to profession sense launch power to you! :D > People like us are not stupid enough to play a profession and not see that its has very unfair mechanics then pretend that we are the best ever because we can abuse those mechanics to no end. > > To be frank with you I just want to enjoy the game. In pvp specifically mesmers completely ruin any kind of fun its better for me to avoid fighting them If I can because I dont like playing video games just to be frustrated by them and having broken mechanics used against you is very frustrating. > Yet at the same time you could say "Then just play a mesmer." > But guess what I have and its not my cup of tea. Best thing I can say i like about mesmer are its sound effects and some of the specific animations it has unique to it only. ITs got some of the best if not the best sound effects in the game. I can respect all of that and certainly would like to see more players finding mesmer fun to fight with whatever balance changes are necessary. Maybe it's just down to personality preference though. My own point of view is mesmer is always fun to fight against even when I've dabbled in other classes - the visual and sound effects together with the gameplay is as fun to fight against as it is to play. Oh and I wouldn't say "just play a mesmer" - that takes away from player choice and dare I say loyalty to their choice/what they enjoy regardless of balance. And regarding sound effects - yeah I love most of them, but still the Axe ambush sound effect is awful without astralaria which changes it to a default axe whoosh sound effect - otherwise the rattling is so annoying! xD I think though out of all the professions - and this might be personal bias here but still - I think it's somewhat healthy for mesmer to remain as a strong "poster" profession in this game given it is the only unique profession GW2 offers compared with other fantasy style games. Without it this game would be just another fantasy rpg/mmo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisRoyalDudeness.8637 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 > @"Levetty.1279" said: > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > Because i never claimed that it should be nerfed in pve just because its broken in pvp. Or so i dont think I did. If I did the point it out to me. > > > > Not to mention this whole post is started off of a change that only effected pvp and not pve. DO YOU REALIZE how out of place you are? I dont think you do. > > A Necromancer comes to the Mesmer board to demand Mesmer nerfs **FOR NO REASON** and then accuses other people of being out of place here. Really now.. Anyway, the change is bad. Mirage Cloak functionality (dodge when incapacitated, dodge while casting) overperforms in PvP/WvW. Elusive Mind made it overperform even more and when they reworked it in the last patch, the Elusive Mind trait become useless (even harmful to take) and the basic Mirage Cloak functionality still overperforms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carighan.6758 Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 Meh, frankly... as said just after PoF released, the whole Mirage-spec is an insult to MMORPG class-design. It's just someone going "Oh yeah, Mesmers, desert, sand, mirages! Get it?! now do something with it, peons! You have 48 hours!" in the office. And all we got from the whole name was the fact that our healing skill is called False Oasis and displays a few 2D palm trees. That's as far as the theme extended. Should just be scrapped and redone. The idea of a damage-centric spec for an otherwise slippery/CC/control class isn't bad, but at the very least it'd need to be properly anchored in the class mechanics. For example IH being built in sounds interesting **iff** shatter is taken away entirely in return. And so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZDragon.3046 Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 > @"Curunen.8729" said: > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > @"Levetty.1279" said: > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > >To be honest you shouldn't feel so bad you still have tons of other viable options that perform just as well at several different areas in the game > > > The problem is that people like you don't want that. You get upset that you are not good enough to beat a Mesmer in PvP and you want it nerfed so it can no longer play any mode. > > > > > Not specifically. I dont only lock myself into pvp like some do. Ideally though mesmers realistically do have far too much damage in pvp for all the escape and damage avoidance tools they have. In pve this hardly matters that much because you dont run those safety tools anyways. (insert causal shrug here) > > > > We both know mesmer will be relevant in this game to its very end at this point there is no denying that. That was made assured the moment alacrity became a thing which to this day is still mostly locked to the mesmer profession and sprinkled here and there on others. > > > > I mean lets consider a few things here, before you start jumping the gun and saying **"You get upset that you are not good enough to beat a Mesmer in PvP and you want it nerfed so it can no longer play any mode."** > > > > 1.Even if it was nerfed in pvp that has nothing to do with the other modes so your claim makes no sense. > > > > 2. > > **Can I beat mesmers in pvp?** > > - Occasionally yes. I can. Depends on if I can make the right move and figure out what they are doing. But usually its only if they over commit and I survive a good 2-4 burst attempts. > > **Is it easy?** > > - Nope..... Odds are I die on burst attempt 2 or 3 before they make a mistake i can actually punish. Or they use escape tools like stealth or ports to go out of combat. > > **Are mesmers fun to fight.** > > - This is debatable to to each person but maybe against another mesmer. > > - To me?, Absolutely not. Not in anyway, shape, or spec. > > - Its hard to have fun against something specifically when its carries super hard via busted mechanics. (that said im not saying everyone gets carried by it either) > > > > People like us dont fall into playing something they dont enjoy playing just to win the game. But if you love mesmer and its your go to profession sense launch power to you! :D > > People like us are not stupid enough to play a profession and not see that its has very unfair mechanics then pretend that we are the best ever because we can abuse those mechanics to no end. > > > > To be frank with you I just want to enjoy the game. In pvp specifically mesmers completely ruin any kind of fun its better for me to avoid fighting them If I can because I dont like playing video games just to be frustrated by them and having broken mechanics used against you is very frustrating. > > Yet at the same time you could say "Then just play a mesmer." > > But guess what I have and its not my cup of tea. Best thing I can say i like about mesmer are its sound effects and some of the specific animations it has unique to it only. ITs got some of the best if not the best sound effects in the game. > And regarding sound effects - yeah I love most of them, but still the Axe ambush sound effect is awful without astralaria which changes it to a default axe whoosh sound effect - otherwise the rattling is so annoying! xD Yeah the sounds are prefect I think all mesmers sound effects are good from core to chorno to mirage. I just dont find them as fun competition to go against even with the sounds. I think ive heard Power lock 1 too many times just before death lol. > > I think though out of all the professions - and this might be personal bias here but still - I think it's somewhat healthy for mesmer to remain as a strong "poster" profession in this game given it is the only unique profession GW2 offers compared with other fantasy style games. Without it this game would be just another fantasy rpg/mmo. Without a doubt i think mesmer will remain pretty strong and live the test of time the professions im more worried about not being able to last another year or two are engi and necro. Even rev has some good end game uses in pve despite how situational it can be because of how its traits are. Maybe the next round of e specs will kinda balance things out a bit more. I just hope that gw2 does not become one of those MMO's where one class becomes so good at doing so many roles that you start to see more of 1 profession than all the others combined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZDragon.3046 Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 > @"Levetty.1279" said: > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > @"Levetty.1279" said: > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > @"Levetty.1279" said: > > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > >To be honest you shouldn't feel so bad you still have tons of other viable options that perform just as well at several different areas in the game > > > > > The problem is that people like you don't want that. You get upset that you are not good enough to beat a Mesmer in PvP and you want it nerfed so it can no longer play any mode. > > > > > > > > > Not specifically. I dont only lock myself into pvp like some do. Ideally though mesmers realistically do have far too much damage in pvp for all the escape and damage avoidance tools they have. In pve this hardly matters that much because you dont run those safety tools anyways. (insert causal shrug here) > > > > > > > > We both know mesmer will be relevant in this game to its very end at this point there is no denying that. That was made assured the moment alacrity became a thing which to this day is still mostly locked to the mesmer profession and sprinkled here and there on others. > > > > > > > > I mean lets consider a few things here, before you start jumping the gun and saying **"You get upset that you are not good enough to beat a Mesmer in PvP and you want it nerfed so it can no longer play any mode."** > > > > > > > > 1.Even if it was nerfed in pvp that has nothing to do with the other modes so your claim makes no sense. > > > > > > > > 2. > > > > **Can I beat mesmers in pvp?** > > > > - Occasionally yes. I can. Depends on if I can make the right move and figure out what they are doing. But usually its only if they over commit and I survive a good 2-4 burst attempts. > > > > **Is it easy?** > > > > - Nope..... Odds are I die on burst attempt 2 or 3 before they make a mistake i can actually punish. Or they use escape tools like stealth or ports to go out of combat. > > > > **Are mesmers fun to fight.** > > > > - This is debatable to to each person but maybe against another mesmer. > > > > - To me?, Absolutely not. Not in anyway, shape, or spec. > > > > - Its hard to have fun against something specifically when its carries super hard via busted mechanics. (that said im not saying everyone gets carried by it either) > > > > > > > > People like us dont fall into playing something they dont enjoy playing just to win the game. But if you love mesmer and its your go to profession sense launch power to you! :D > > > > People like us are not stupid enough to play a profession and not see that its has very unfair mechanics then pretend that we are the best ever because we can abuse those mechanics to no end. > > > > > > > > To be frank with you I just want to enjoy the game. In pvp specifically mesmers completely ruin any kind of fun its better for me to avoid fighting them If I can because I dont like playing video games just to be frustrated by them and having broken mechanics used against you is very frustrating. > > > > Yet at the same time you could say "Then just play a mesmer." > > > > But guess what I have and its not my cup of tea. Best thing I can say i like about mesmer are its sound effects and some of the specific animations it has unique to it only. ITs got some of the best if not the best sound effects in the game. > > > > > > You didn't answer the main point. Why should Mesmer be nerfed in PvE because you can't beat it in PvP. > > > > Because i never claimed that it should be nerfed in pve just because its broken in pvp. Or so i dont think I did. If I did the point it out to me. > > > > Not to mention this whole post is started off of a change that only effected pvp and not pve. DO YOU REALIZE how out of place you are? I dont think you do. > > A Necromancer comes to the Mesmer board to demand Mesmer nerfs for no reason and then accuses other people of being out of place here. You really have nothing better to say do you. Because you know you are all the way in the wrong and neck deep in that 6 foot hole you have dug. 1- I never demanded anything. The OP of this was not demanding anything it was simply a response to a change that had been made. If i wanted to demand something I would have started my own post here. 2- You are back lashing really hard which means one of two things. Either you are just trolling me for giggles which is fine. Or you really know the profession you play is busted af and that you are not that good. This is just you way of admitting it perhaps. 3- Im done with the conversation between me and you have a good one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nappa.1904 Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 As a mesmer main, I think it would be a good idea to remove mirage's ability to dodge while stunned. Then remove the stunbreak from EM and replaced it with the ability to dodge while stunned, rather than being able to do it at any time. In other words, you could dodge while stunned, but that would cost you a grandmaster trait to be able to do it. So in the end, the EM would clear 1 condi on dodge and allow you to dodge while stunned, that's it. No stunbreaks, no Exhaustion nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curunen.8729 Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 One thing I would like to recap on regarding having stunbreak on dodge, because on this note I do disagree with some fellow mesmers as to it being an issue - in my opinion as a feature this is perfectly fine. Edit - for the record yes I was one of those during pof beta that shared the sentiment that this trait would never make it into live release due to being ridiculously powerful - however over the last 5 months my opinion has changed. As a trait it allows more options for building and choosing other utility skills rather than being forced into the usual Blink/SoM (RIP Decoy), encouraging experimenting with utilities that aren't stunbreaks (in reality we only have Blink, SoM, Decoy, Sand through Glass (which is bad - nobody will waste a slot for that) and Mantra (only useful in wvw group comps)). It is an active stunbreak just like any other skill requiring one button press. Just as a thought exercise, what if they had put a stunbreak on heal, on a shatter, on a weapon skill or on jaunt... there would be no issue because all those are seen as "skills/abilities". With the nature of Mirage's dodge it is worth viewing it from the perspective of being just another "skill/ability". ie it is worth considering Mirage as having NO dodge, but instead a "skill" with pseudo ammunition mechanic that provides 1s evade frame among other things. And this skill can be traited to to many things. The issue is not about having access to stunbreak on the dodge keybind - rather it is about the **frequency** of access to stunbreak due to having it available on **every** dodge, given the fast endurance refill rates. If this frequency was reduced such that stunbreak access from the dodge keybind would be limited to at most every "x" number of seconds then I believe this would be balanced. But that would require decoupling the stunbreak cooldown from the dodge "cooldown" - so how to show this on the UI? Use the same white line moving around the skill as the ammunition mechanic uses to show the cooldown on a charge. This white line would move around the endurance bar exactly the same as the ammunition mechanic cooldown UI indicator, allowing the cooldown of stunbreak to be set at whatever is suitable, as well as enabling the mesmer player to know when it is available/off cooldown. They could even change the endurance bar colour when it is on cooldown (ie make it darker or something) and make it flash as it comes off cooldown, or some other effect in addition to the moving line. Bottom line is I don't mind which solution is implemented - whether they remove it, put it on Jaunt or whatever - so long as other solutions are carefully considered and iterated upon. ----- tl;dr: The issue is not about having access to stunbreak on the dodge keybind - rather it is about the **frequency** of access to stunbreak due to having it available on **every** dodge, given the fast endurance refill rates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaboBabo.3581 Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 i dont want a strunbreak anymore with this Price. Just gimme a flat heal + scaling and one condi removed and in 6 months nobody will complain anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OriOri.8724 Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 > @"Curunen.8729" said: > One thing I would like to recap on regarding having stunbreak on dodge, because on this note I do disagree with some fellow mesmers as to it being an issue - in my opinion as a feature this is perfectly fine. Edit - for the record yes I was one of those during pof beta that shared the sentiment that this trait would never make it into live release due to being ridiculously powerful - however over the last 5 months my opinion has changed. As a trait it allows more options for building and choosing other utility skills rather than being forced into the usual Blink/SoM (RIP Decoy), encouraging experimenting with utilities that aren't stunbreaks (in reality we only have Blink, SoM, Decoy, Sand through Glass (which is bad - nobody will waste a slot for that) and Mantra (only useful in wvw group comps)). > > It is an active stunbreak just like any other skill requiring one button press. Just as a thought exercise, what if they had put a stunbreak on heal, on a shatter, on a weapon skill or on jaunt... there would be no issue because all those are seen as "skills/abilities". > > With the nature of Mirage's dodge it is worth viewing it from the perspective of being just another "skill/ability". ie it is worth considering Mirage as having NO dodge, but instead a "skill" with pseudo ammunition mechanic that provides 1s evade frame among other things. And this skill can be traited to to many things. > > The issue is not about having access to stunbreak on the dodge keybind - rather it is about the **frequency** of access to stunbreak due to having it available on **every** dodge, given the fast endurance refill rates. > > If this frequency was reduced such that stunbreak access from the dodge keybind would be limited to at most every "x" number of seconds then I believe this would be balanced. > > But that would require decoupling the stunbreak cooldown from the dodge "cooldown" - so how to show this on the UI? Use the same white line moving around the skill as the ammunition mechanic uses to show the cooldown on a charge. This white line would move around the endurance bar exactly the same as the ammunition mechanic cooldown UI indicator, allowing the cooldown of stunbreak to be set at whatever is suitable, as well as enabling the mesmer player to know when it is available/off cooldown. They could even change the endurance bar colour when it is on cooldown (ie make it darker or something) and make it flash as it comes off cooldown, or some other effect in addition to the moving line. > > Bottom line is I don't mind which solution is implemented - whether they remove it, put it on Jaunt or whatever - so long as other solutions are carefully considered and iterated upon. > > ----- > tl;dr: The issue is not about having access to stunbreak on the dodge keybind - rather it is about the **frequency** of access to stunbreak due to having it available on **every** dodge, given the fast endurance refill rates. While yes, a suitable CD on this would go a very long ways towards balancing the stunbreak on dodge, and while that would require some sort of UI tell to not be annoying, I have to disagree that this is necessary in the first place. As a core class, mesmer already had access to lots of stunbreaks. And even if you didn't have any of them up, you always had distortion and diversion on instant cast in case you needed it. Mirage adds, baseline, on top of that the abiilty to dodge while CC'ed, preventing someone from CCind you in order to burst you down. Mirage doesn't need another stunbreak. And of all 9 classes and all 18 elite specs, Mirage is the one that _least _needs a stunbreak that frees up a skill slot for another skill. And its in no small part to being able to dodge while CC'ed, even without EM. Yes, its a very fun mechanic. Yes, a suitable CD could be found, and yes I trust Anet to be able to implement one with a good UI tell around the endurance bar (able to mind you, not that they necessarily would) for when the CD is up. But that doesn't mean mirage needs it. We really don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curunen.8729 Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 > @"OriOri.8724" said: > > @"Curunen.8729" said: > > One thing I would like to recap on regarding having stunbreak on dodge, because on this note I do disagree with some fellow mesmers as to it being an issue - in my opinion as a feature this is perfectly fine. Edit - for the record yes I was one of those during pof beta that shared the sentiment that this trait would never make it into live release due to being ridiculously powerful - however over the last 5 months my opinion has changed. As a trait it allows more options for building and choosing other utility skills rather than being forced into the usual Blink/SoM (RIP Decoy), encouraging experimenting with utilities that aren't stunbreaks (in reality we only have Blink, SoM, Decoy, Sand through Glass (which is bad - nobody will waste a slot for that) and Mantra (only useful in wvw group comps)). > > > > It is an active stunbreak just like any other skill requiring one button press. Just as a thought exercise, what if they had put a stunbreak on heal, on a shatter, on a weapon skill or on jaunt... there would be no issue because all those are seen as "skills/abilities". > > > > With the nature of Mirage's dodge it is worth viewing it from the perspective of being just another "skill/ability". ie it is worth considering Mirage as having NO dodge, but instead a "skill" with pseudo ammunition mechanic that provides 1s evade frame among other things. And this skill can be traited to to many things. > > > > The issue is not about having access to stunbreak on the dodge keybind - rather it is about the **frequency** of access to stunbreak due to having it available on **every** dodge, given the fast endurance refill rates. > > > > If this frequency was reduced such that stunbreak access from the dodge keybind would be limited to at most every "x" number of seconds then I believe this would be balanced. > > > > But that would require decoupling the stunbreak cooldown from the dodge "cooldown" - so how to show this on the UI? Use the same white line moving around the skill as the ammunition mechanic uses to show the cooldown on a charge. This white line would move around the endurance bar exactly the same as the ammunition mechanic cooldown UI indicator, allowing the cooldown of stunbreak to be set at whatever is suitable, as well as enabling the mesmer player to know when it is available/off cooldown. They could even change the endurance bar colour when it is on cooldown (ie make it darker or something) and make it flash as it comes off cooldown, or some other effect in addition to the moving line. > > > > Bottom line is I don't mind which solution is implemented - whether they remove it, put it on Jaunt or whatever - so long as other solutions are carefully considered and iterated upon. > > > > ----- > > tl;dr: The issue is not about having access to stunbreak on the dodge keybind - rather it is about the **frequency** of access to stunbreak due to having it available on **every** dodge, given the fast endurance refill rates. > > While yes, a suitable CD on this would go a very long ways towards balancing the stunbreak on dodge, and while that would require some sort of UI tell to not be annoying, I have to disagree that this is necessary in the first place. As a core class, mesmer already had access to lots of stunbreaks. And even if you didn't have any of them up, you always had distortion and diversion on instant cast in case you needed it. Mirage adds, baseline, on top of that the abiilty to dodge while CC'ed, preventing someone from CCind you in order to burst you down. Mirage doesn't need another stunbreak. And of all 9 classes and all 18 elite specs, Mirage is the one that _least _needs a stunbreak that frees up a skill slot for another skill. And its in no small part to being able to dodge while CC'ed, even without EM. > > Yes, its a very fun mechanic. Yes, a suitable CD could be found, and yes I trust Anet to be able to implement one with a good UI tell around the endurance bar (able to mind you, not that they necessarily would) for when the CD is up. But that doesn't mean mirage needs it. We really don't. My perspective is that given the 3 utility slot limitation and (my mistake previously - forgot mirror images) 6 utility stunbreak skills mirage has access to (of which only 2 see regular use with Mirage since Decoy and to some extent Mirror Images were both killed by the removal of IC unless used with Chrono and alacrity, StG being poor and Mantra only having niche use in group play, nevermind the need for slotting things like Portal, condi clear, or things like Illusionary Ambush and so on) means we only have access to one or two utility slot stunbreaks in most pvp oriented builds, being in the ballpark of 30s cooldown. This may be enough but I wouldn't classify it as a lot. Sure F3 and F4 can be used situationally, although I wouldn't consider them to have much bearing on the balancing of the stunbreak situation, same as with comparing to other classes/specs in terms of flexibility of utility skills by virtue of EM. Yes the fact that mirage can dodge when cced as standard is insanely powerful, compounding the situation. While I have strongly advocated removing this in the recent past, currently I'm not certain this is the ideal solution either - sure it's a ridiculously forgiving mechanic but it is interesting nonetheless so I'm now curious to know what solutions they come up with. So we'll have to agree to disagree on some of this. In any case I really am not too fussed what outcomes take place providing they don't nuke everything into irrelevance from orbit like some other balance changes. Just want them to consider a wide range of possibilities before narrowing down to the final solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carighan.6758 Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 Can't we just scrap Mirage? I mean the spec is terribly ill-designed, it even lacks a theme. And from reading more and more threads about it, there's just too many issues everywhere. There's a few interesting concepts in there, but I'd rather see them expanded into full elite specs instead of keeping this hodgepodge of half-baked ideas with no place of its own around :disappointed: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odik.4587 Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 > @"OriOri.8724" said: > > @"Curunen.8729" said: > > One thing I would like to recap on regarding having stunbreak on dodge, because on this note I do disagree with some fellow mesmers as to it being an issue - in my opinion as a feature this is perfectly fine. Edit - for the record yes I was one of those during pof beta that shared the sentiment that this trait would never make it into live release due to being ridiculously powerful - however over the last 5 months my opinion has changed. As a trait it allows more options for building and choosing other utility skills rather than being forced into the usual Blink/SoM (RIP Decoy), encouraging experimenting with utilities that aren't stunbreaks (in reality we only have Blink, SoM, Decoy, Sand through Glass (which is bad - nobody will waste a slot for that) and Mantra (only useful in wvw group comps)). > > > > It is an active stunbreak just like any other skill requiring one button press. Just as a thought exercise, what if they had put a stunbreak on heal, on a shatter, on a weapon skill or on jaunt... there would be no issue because all those are seen as "skills/abilities". > > > > With the nature of Mirage's dodge it is worth viewing it from the perspective of being just another "skill/ability". ie it is worth considering Mirage as having NO dodge, but instead a "skill" with pseudo ammunition mechanic that provides 1s evade frame among other things. And this skill can be traited to to many things. > > > > The issue is not about having access to stunbreak on the dodge keybind - rather it is about the **frequency** of access to stunbreak due to having it available on **every** dodge, given the fast endurance refill rates. > > > > If this frequency was reduced such that stunbreak access from the dodge keybind would be limited to at most every "x" number of seconds then I believe this would be balanced. > > > > But that would require decoupling the stunbreak cooldown from the dodge "cooldown" - so how to show this on the UI? Use the same white line moving around the skill as the ammunition mechanic uses to show the cooldown on a charge. This white line would move around the endurance bar exactly the same as the ammunition mechanic cooldown UI indicator, allowing the cooldown of stunbreak to be set at whatever is suitable, as well as enabling the mesmer player to know when it is available/off cooldown. They could even change the endurance bar colour when it is on cooldown (ie make it darker or something) and make it flash as it comes off cooldown, or some other effect in addition to the moving line. > > > > Bottom line is I don't mind which solution is implemented - whether they remove it, put it on Jaunt or whatever - so long as other solutions are carefully considered and iterated upon. > > > > ----- > > tl;dr: The issue is not about having access to stunbreak on the dodge keybind - rather it is about the **frequency** of access to stunbreak due to having it available on **every** dodge, given the fast endurance refill rates. > > While yes, a suitable CD on this would go a very long ways towards balancing the stunbreak on dodge, and while that would require some sort of UI tell to not be annoying, I have to disagree that this is necessary in the first place. As a core class, mesmer already had access to lots of stunbreaks. And even if you didn't have any of them up, you always had distortion and diversion on instant cast in case you needed it. Mirage adds, baseline, on top of that the abiilty to dodge while CC'ed, preventing someone from CCind you in order to burst you down. Mirage doesn't need another stunbreak. And of all 9 classes and all 18 elite specs, Mirage is the one that _least _needs a stunbreak that frees up a skill slot for another skill. And its in no small part to being able to dodge while CC'ed, even without EM. > > Yes, its a very fun mechanic. Yes, a suitable CD could be found, and yes I trust Anet to be able to implement one with a good UI tell around the endurance bar (able to mind you, not that they necessarily would) for when the CD is up. But that doesn't mean mirage needs it. We really don't. Im not sure do we really need current exhaust-EM or not ,but we need SOMETHING that would be good at PVP because all grandmaster choices are terrible as hell. IH good on condi builds only , cant imagine this with domination because you want to shatter clones,not to have army that leap after someone ... Or this bleed on dodge is so bad its never get its use anywhere (i doubt anone using this in raids or wvw LUL) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darknicrofia.2604 Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 > @"Levetty.1279" said: > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > @"Levetty.1279" said: > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > >To be honest you shouldn't feel so bad you still have tons of other viable options that perform just as well at several different areas in the game > > > The problem is that people like you don't want that. You get upset that you are not good enough to beat a Mesmer in PvP and you want it nerfed so it can no longer play any mode. > > > > > Not specifically. I dont only lock myself into pvp like some do. Ideally though mesmers realistically do have far too much damage in pvp for all the escape and damage avoidance tools they have. In pve this hardly matters that much because you dont run those safety tools anyways. (insert causal shrug here) > > > > We both know mesmer will be relevant in this game to its very end at this point there is no denying that. That was made assured the moment alacrity became a thing which to this day is still mostly locked to the mesmer profession and sprinkled here and there on others. > > > > I mean lets consider a few things here, before you start jumping the gun and saying **"You get upset that you are not good enough to beat a Mesmer in PvP and you want it nerfed so it can no longer play any mode."** > > > > 1.Even if it was nerfed in pvp that has nothing to do with the other modes so your claim makes no sense. > > > > 2. > > **Can I beat mesmers in pvp?** > > - Occasionally yes. I can. Depends on if I can make the right move and figure out what they are doing. But usually its only if they over commit and I survive a good 2-4 burst attempts. > > **Is it easy?** > > - Nope..... Odds are I die on burst attempt 2 or 3 before they make a mistake i can actually punish. Or they use escape tools like stealth or ports to go out of combat. > > **Are mesmers fun to fight.** > > - This is debatable to to each person but maybe against another mesmer. > > - To me?, Absolutely not. Not in anyway, shape, or spec. > > - Its hard to have fun against something specifically when its carries super hard via busted mechanics. (that said im not saying everyone gets carried by it either) > > > > People like us dont fall into playing something they dont enjoy playing just to win the game. But if you love mesmer and its your go to profession sense launch power to you! :D > > People like us are not stupid enough to play a profession and not see that its has very unfair mechanics then pretend that we are the best ever because we can abuse those mechanics to no end. > > > > To be frank with you I just want to enjoy the game. In pvp specifically mesmers completely ruin any kind of fun its better for me to avoid fighting them If I can because I dont like playing video games just to be frustrated by them and having broken mechanics used against you is very frustrating. > > Yet at the same time you could say "Then just play a mesmer." > > But guess what I have and its not my cup of tea. Best thing I can say i like about mesmer are its sound effects and some of the specific animations it has unique to it only. ITs got some of the best if not the best sound effects in the game. > > You didn't answer the main point. Why should Mesmer be nerfed in PvE because you can't beat it in PvP. Why should Mesmers beat other similar skilled or even more skilled players in PvP simply because they play Mesmer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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