Can someone explain Stealth to me?

[Ashantara.8731]

More precisely: **stealth duration**. All the skills seem to last only 3 or so seconds and have a long recharge time ([example](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_Refuge "example")), so how do players manage to cloak their whole party and keep them cloaked for a longer period of time?

 

**Example:** Guiding their party unseen through the traps and mobs in Caudecus' Manor's basement, or helping their party capture the Balthazar HP in Auric Basin without a fight.

 

Do I need to combine certain skills? Or time something in a specific way?

 

Thanks in advance,

A thief noob (had a thief for years, never played the character much nor really took the time to learn to play the profession properly)

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**Edit: Just noticed the extended description of "Shadow Refuge" on Wiki.**

 

So the duration extends under the given conditions, namely when you don't attack so that the maximum number of pulses can apply? And it stays intact even when you are moving, right?

 

How do you accomplish the same for solo stealthing? With that same skill? Or do you use "Cloak and Dagger" instead?

[Kageseigi.2150]

For Thieves specifically, they can use combinations such as a Smoke Field with a Blast or Leap Finisher. Black Powder can be followed by multiple Heartseekers or Cluster Bombs to stack Stealth.

 

Shadow Refuge creates an AoE that pulses Stealth. Each pulse applies 3 (or 4) seconds of Stealth. If a player exits the area before the pulses end, then they are instantly Revealed.

[Ashantara.8731]

> @"Kageseigi.2150" said:

> Shadow Refuge creates an AoE that pulses Stealth. Each pulse applies 3 (or 4) seconds of Stealth. If a player exits the area before the pulses end, then they are instantly Revealed.

 

How do you keep the cloak up then while moving with your group and without attacking an enemy (because the skills you mentioned are all attack skills)? Or does the field move with its caster?

[Kageseigi.2150]

> @"Ashantara.8731" said:

> How do you keep the cloak up then while moving with your group and without attacking an enemy (because the skills you mentioned are all attack skills)? Or does the field move with its caster?

 

Ah, I apologize for the confusion.

 

Shadow Refuge creates a stationary AoE for that lasts 4 seconds. The instant it is cast and every second after, it pulses an application of 3 (or 4) seconds of Stealth. So if you are inside the AoE the moment it is cast, you must remain inside the AoE for 4 seconds or you will lose Stealth and be Revealed. However, at the end of the 4 seconds, the AoE will disappear, and you may freely move, and you will still have a lot of Stealth duration remaining.

 

For example, if you do not have the Shadow Arts traitline, and you remain in the AoE for the entirety, you will gain 15 seconds of Stealth in total (5 pulses of 3 seconds). You will be Stealthed inside of the AoE for 4 of those seconds, so you will have 11 seconds of Stealth remaining after the AoE ends.

 

If you do have Shadow Arts traitline, then the Meld with Shadows trait will extend each application of Stealth from Shadow Refuge by 1 second. So you would gain a total of 20 seconds of Stealth for yourself (5 pulses of 4 seconds). That would leave you with 16 seconds of Stealth after the AoE ends.

 

As for the attack combinations, a Thief can use offhand-Pistol to create a Smoke Field around a group with the Black Powder Skill. Then the Thief can switch to the Shortbow, and repeatedly use the Cluster Bomb skill on top of the Smoke Field to grant applications of 3 seconds of Area Stealth for each Cluster Bomb that blasts the Smoke Field.

[saerni.2584]

And attack skills that don’t hit anyone won’t reveal the thief. So black powder and heartseeker can be used to stack multiple stealths in a short time frame.

[Ashantara.8731]

Thank you guys, especially @"Kageseigi.2150", for the in-depth explanations! :3 (_in need of light bulb emoticon_) As soon as I have leveled my new Charr thief, I'll practice the art of stealth. ;)

[Kageseigi.2150]

> @"Ashantara.8731" said:

> Thank you guys, especially Kageseigi.2150, for the in-depth explanations! :3 Shadow Art traits extend the time, _that's_ how thieves can keep the cloak for their group up for so long. (_in need of light bulb emoticon_) :) As soon as I have leveled my new Charr thief, I'll practice the art of stealth. ;)

 

You're very welcome! :-)

 

I'm not sure if Meld with Shadows extends Stealth for groups or only for the Thief. However, 11 seconds is quite a while in Stealth... and Swiftness can get them a long way in that amount of time.

But as long as you can keep the group together and away from enemies, a Thief can Black Powder+Cluster Bomb the group to extend their Stealth.

 

Notice, though, Meld with Shadows does not grant an extra second when Stealth is gained from combinations... even for the Thief.

 

Good luck with your Charr Thief! As long as you're not overly fond of apples, you should be just fine! :-D

[MUDse.7623]

ît is to note that you can only have 5 stacks of stealth. so if you use smokefield and everyone in your 5 man party uses one xplosion finisher you are already at 15sec and wont go higher with combos. this way you can do very quick stops for stealth and move on. it is not the job of the thief alone to keep it all up if you run in a group. team work is way more efficient as every one using 1 skill with explosion finisher is faster then the thief using 5 and will leave you more time to walk before restacking.

[Ashantara.8731]

> @"Kageseigi.2150" said:

> Good luck with your Charr Thief! As long as you're not overly fond of apples, you should be just fine! :-D

 

LOL!

 

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> it is not the job of the thief alone to keep it all up if you run in a group. team work is way more efficient as every one using 1 skill with explosion finisher is faster then the thief using 5 and will leave you more time to walk before restacking.

 

You must be talking about WvW tactics. I, however, was interested in more basic stuff for starters, like sneaking into HP locations and the like. (I will leave anything more complicated than that for later. ;) )

[MUDse.7623]

> > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > it is not the job of the thief alone to keep it all up if you run in a group. team work is way more efficient as every one using 1 skill with explosion finisher is faster then the thief using 5 and will leave you more time to walk before restacking.

>

> You must be talking about WvW tactics. I, however, was interested in more basic stuff for starters, like sneaking into HP locations and the like. (I will leave anything more complicated than that for later. ;) )

 

uhm no ? :D

i dont know many people that try to remain stealthed as a full group for mutiple restacks of stealth in WvW..you maybe see that once every 2 years.

 

you said :

 

> @"Ashantara.8731" said:

> **Example:** Guiding their party unseen through the traps and mobs in Caudecus' Manor's basement

 

so i thought back to times i did run alot of dungeons, you know when there was no other instanced group PvE..there i played alot of thief and we got to skip alot.

in my guild party and rarely in a random good party i only had to use one finisher into my field, with bad parties i needed more and used out of slack the refuge wasting a utility CD for it.

 

 

[Ashantara.8731]

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> uhm no ? :D

> i dont know many people that try to remain stealthed as a full group for mutiple restacks of stealth in WvW..you maybe see that once every 2 years.

 

I have only run with zergs so far, so I don't know what the common tactics for small capture groups are. ;)

 

> you said :

> > @"Ashantara.8731" said:

> > **Example:** Guiding their party unseen through the traps and mobs in Caudecus' Manor's basement

>

> so i thought back to times i did run alot of dungeons, you know when there was no other instanced group PvE..

 

Well, I have seen thieves doing all the work by themselves where they were the only thief in the party, and it worked extremely well. :)

 

> there i played alot of thief and we got to skip alot.

> in my guild party and rarely in a random good party i only had to use one finisher into my field, with bad parties i needed more and used out of slack the refuge wasting a utility CD for it.

 

Okay okay, slow down. ;) I will have to have all traits and skills available on this new character and test them before I can fully understand what you just wrote ;) (plus it's very late here and my brain needs sleep).

 

I do have a fully leveled human thief with both elite specs unlocked, but I really don't like to play him (actually consider deleting him eventually), so I can wait for this new char before I start testing thoroughly; I want to learn this step by step, or I will quickly get frustrated with this profession again.

 

In any case, thanks a lot, all that information will certainly help me in time. :+1: And if further questions should occur, I will certainly not hesitate to ask you guys again. :)

[Ashantara.8731]

All right, I just tried timing the use of "Black Powder" right when "Shadow Refuge" was about to run out, but it did not work regarding cloaking. What did I miss/do wrong?

[Kageseigi.2150]

Do you mean when your Stealth was about to run out? Or the actual Shadow Refuge AoE?

 

First, try to to Black Powder (Pistol 4) with Heartseeker (Dagger 2) or Cluster Bomb (Shortbow 2) by itself.

 

Black Powder, then Heartseeker through it once. Do you gain Stealth?

 

Black Powder, then Cluster Bomb on it once (you should be standing inside Black Powder already). Do you gain Stealth?

 

If those work, then try the Shadow Refuge again. Once your 15-20 seconds of Stealth is down to about 2 seconds, then Black Powder and Heartseeker or Cluster Bomb again. You should add 3 more seconds of Stealth to yourself.

[Ashantara.8731]

> @"Kageseigi.2150" said:

> Do you mean when your Stealth was about to run out?

 

Yes.

 

> First, try to do Black Powder (Pistol 4) with Heartseeker (Dagger 2) or Cluster Bomb (Shortbow 2) by itself.

>

> Black Powder, then Heartseeker through it once. Do you gain Stealth?

>

> Black Powder, then Cluster Bomb on it once (you should be standing inside Black Powder already). Do you gain Stealth?

>

> If those work, then try the Shadow Refuge again. Once your 15-20 seconds of Stealth is down to about 2 seconds, then Black Powder and Heartseeker or Cluster Bomb again. You should add 3 more seconds of Stealth to yourself.

 

**Will try right away and get back at you in a bit.**

 

P.S. The only thing that really draws me to the thief profession at all is stealth (I always envy those who skillfully kill you via stealth in PvP, for instance), but I have not been able to master it in the past, hence no longer touched that class ever since - until now. There isn't a single full-fledged, up-to-date **tutorial on stealth** on the web, can you believe it? It is quite frustrating :( , especially in combination with the fact that ANet has not provided any beginner's tutorials whatsoever for GW2. :angry:

[Ashantara.8731]

Okay, here we go:

 

> @"Kageseigi.2150" said:

> First, try to to Black Powder (Pistol 4) with Heartseeker (Dagger 2) or Cluster Bomb (Shortbow 2) by itself.

> Black Powder, then Heartseeker through it once. Do you gain Stealth?

 

I do.

 

> Black Powder, then Cluster Bomb on it once (you should be standing inside Black Powder already). Do you gain Stealth?

 

Yes.

 

> If those work, then try the Shadow Refuge again. Once your 15-20 seconds of Stealth is down to about 2 seconds, then Black Powder and Heartseeker or Cluster Bomb again. You should add 3 more seconds of Stealth to yourself.

 

Okay, got it. Not sure, though, how I can extend my stealth this way while communing with an HP, for instance, as I cannot use any follow-up attack skills after "Shadow Refuge" while communing. Any tips there?

 

Also, if you happen to have a link to a (preferably video) tutorial to stealthing correctly in combat, that would be highly appreciated. <3

[Kageseigi.2150]

> @"Ashantara.8731" said:

> Okay, got it. Not sure, though, how I can extend my stealth this way while communing with an HP, for instance, as I cannot use any follow-up attack skills after "Shadow Refuge" while communing. Any tips there?

 

Hmm, I don't think you can extend your Stealth when communing. My suggestion would be to use your Black Power+Heartseeker/Cluster Bomb combination for your initial Stealth in order to reach the Hero Point. Then, right before you commune, use Shadow Refuge right on top of the Hero Point.

 

Also, the Blinding Powder utility is a Blast Finisher just like Cluster Bomb. So you can use Black Powder+Blinding Powder to get an instant 6 (or 7) seconds of Stealth. You can then Heartseeker/Cluster Bomb the Black Powder to stack Stealth as usual.

 

When using Cluster Bomb to stack Stealth, the best method is to aim directly at your feet... so it will hit immediately instead of losing time shooting it in front of you. Then you can shoot again directly after it hits the ground.

 

 

> @"Ashantara.8731" said:

> Also, if you happen to have a link to a (preferably video) tutorial to stealthing correctly in combat, that would be highly appreciated. <3

 

Ah, I haven't seen one recently, but I haven't looked. If I find one, I'll try to let you know.

 

And yes, getting Stealth can be frustrating when not too experienced with the Thief. Anet has complicated it even more by not letting us manipulate our Heartseeker distance by tilting the camera.

 

If I may ask, which weapon sets do you usually use?

[Ashantara.8731]

> @"Kageseigi.2150" said:

> Hmm, I don't think you can extend your Stealth when communing. My suggestion would be to use your Black Power+Heartseeker/Cluster Bomb combination for your initial Stealth in order to reach the Hero Point. Then, right before you commune, use Shadow Refuge right on top of the Hero Point.

 

That is a great advice, thanks! Just went and captured the Balthazar HP solo that way. :)

 

The rest of your tips are super helpful, too.

 

> When using Cluster Bomb to stack Stealth, the best method is to aim directly at your feet... so it will hit immediately instead of losing time shooting it in front of you. Then you can shoot again directly after it hits the ground.

 

What do you mean by "Then you can shoot again directly after it hits the ground"? Won't that reveal me?

 

> Ah, I haven't seen one recently, but I haven't looked. If I find one, I'll try to let you know.

 

Merci. :)

 

> If I may ask, which weapon sets do you usually use?

 

I created this character only three days ago, I reached level 80 yesterday and now have farmed HoT HPs to 100% unlock Daredevil.

 

I usually look up builds on metabattle. Before I could use Daredevil, I went with Dagger/Pistol and Shortbow on Deadly Arts, Critical Strikes and Trickery. Now I am using Dagger/Pistol (or Pistol/Pistol when I have to fight champs that I are better not engaged in melee with that little health in a PUG) and Staff, with Trickery replaced by Daredevil.

[Kageseigi.2150]

Congrats on Daredevil! You officially have more experience on it than I do :-P

 

> @"Ashantara.8731" said:

> What do you mean by "Then you can shoot again directly after it hits the ground"? Won't that reveal me?

 

I mean Cluster Bomb is a split skill, so if you press "2" again before the first Cluster Bomb hits the ground, it will destroy itself in the air, meaning you lose the Blast Finisher that grants a Stealth combination. As soon as the first Cluster Bomb hits the ground, it will blast, giving you Stealth. As soon as that happens, you can press "2" again to shoot another Cluster Bomb. If you aim directly at your feet, the Cluster Bomb hits the ground nearly instantaneously, so you can rapidly press the "2" key. That helps with getting as more Stealth combinations before the Black Powder AoE ends.

 

Cluster Bomb will only Reveal you if there is an enemy within its blast range. If you are far enough away, Cluster Bomb won't hit an enemy, so you won't be Revealed. Note that Black Powder has a radius of 120 units, and Cluster Bomb has a blast radius of 240 units, so it's twice the size. Think of it this way... if there is an enemy to your right. If you can use Black Powder and the enemy is not inside the AoE, you could run to the left edge of the AoE and Cluster Bomb your feet. That should be far enough away from the enemy so you won't hit him.

 

Don't worry. The judgment of range will come with experience :-)

 

Also, remember to deselect a target before you use Black Powder if you are already in Stealth. Black Powder does fire a projectile that will do minimal damage to your target, but it's enough to Reveal you. This is the same for Heartseekers... they will always jump toward your target, so you won't be able to control their direction. Though Heartseekers have generally been safer to use if nearby enemies because it's not an AoE. Of course, you used to be able to really limit the distance of Heartseekers, so it's not as safe as before.

 

 

> @"Ashantara.8731" said:

> I usually look up builds on metabattle. Before I could use Daredevil, I went with Dagger/Pistol and Shortbow on Deadly Arts, Critical Strikes and Trickery. Now I am using Dagger/Pistol (or Pistol/Pistol when I have to fight champs that I are better not engaged in melee with that little health in a PUG) and Staff, with Trickery replaced by Daredevil.

 

You said that you want to use the Thief for Stealth. Are you focusing more on PvE? Or PvP/WvW? The tactics will vary wildly between them.

[Ashantara.8731]

> @"Kageseigi.2150" said:

> Don't worry. The judgment of range will come with experience :-)

 

I sure hope so! :) ANet could have seperated between attack skills and stealth skills IMO, because the way it is, it's somewhat complicated.

 

> You said that you want to use the Thief for Stealth.

 

Well... only where it makes sense in PvE, not 24/7. ;) Once I have mastered the Art of Stealth, I might consider trying this in PvP* (no worries, thanks to metabattle and a few years of playing this game, I know how wildly different builds are in the different game modes; I have played WvW with a Druid healer, a Dragonhunter supporter and some other professions).

 

*) I stopped playing PvP quite a while ago due to its imbalance, bad ranking system, and the random team constellations (and player skill).

[Kageseigi.2150]

> @"Ashantara.8731" said:

> I sure hope so! :) ANet could have seperated between attack skills and stealth skills IMO, because the way it is, it's somewhat complicated.

 

Yeah, though it can be argued that the Stealth combinations are attacks for balance reasons in PvP/WvW. Before Reveal skills existed, there were Thieves who could pretty much stay in Stealth for extreme periods of times (even permanently) because of Black Powder+Heartseeker/Cluster Bomb combinations while Shadow Refuge was on cooldown. The only way to make a Thief show himself was for the opponent to stand inside the Black Powder AoE and hope the Thief accidentally hit him with a Heartseeker while trying to Stealth.

 

 

> @"Ashantara.8731" said:

> Well... only where it makes sense in PvE, not 24/7. ;) Once I have mastered the Art of Stealth, I might consider trying this in PvP*

 

I've been out of the game for a while, but many Thieves used to use the Sword in PvE over Dagger because of the cleave. Sword/Pistol was popular because Black Powder could make you nearly invincible to most (pre-HoT) mobs due to the blind. Stealth isn't so effective for combat in PvE unless it's used as an escape or to heal... because you can't kill anything while in Stealth.

 

When you move to PvP, Stealth becomes even less useful, sadly. It can be extremely annoying. If you're fighting on a point, every second you're in Stealth, you lose more control of the point. Human players are also much smarter and more lethal than AI, so they will hit you hard with AoE's when you're in Stealth, even randomly guessing where you are.

 

WvW is where Stealth becomes much more useful and important. You have lots of room to hide and maneuver. You're not limited to fighting on a point. And you can build for a lot more power there, so Backstabs are more lethal. That's not to say it makes the Thief any easier to play and win, but it at least gives you a shot.

[Ashantara.8731]

> @"Kageseigi.2150" said:

> Yeah, though it can be argued that the Stealth combinations are attacks for balance reasons in PvP/WvW.

 

Highly probable.

 

> Before Reveal skills existed, there were Thieves who could pretty much stay in Stealth for extreme periods of times (even permanently) because of Black Powder+Heartseeker/Cluster Bomb combinations while Shadow Refuge was on cooldown. The only way to make a Thief show himself was for the opponent to stand inside the Black Powder AoE and hope the Thief accidentally hit him with a Heartseeker while trying to Stealth.

 

When was this nerfed? Because the last time I played PvP, I encountered quite a few of those quasi-perma-stealthed thieves (or maybe it just felt this way, because they constantly vanished and quickly attacked out of nowhere).

 

> I've been out of the game for a while, but many Thieves used to use the Sword in PvE over Dagger because of the cleave. Sword/Pistol was popular because Black Powder could make you nearly invincible to most (pre-HoT) mobs due to the blind.

 

Ah, so the nerf you were referring to was pre-HoT?

 

> Stealth isn't so effective for combat in PvE unless it's used as an escape or to heal... because you can't kill anything while in Stealth.

 

Exactly. But it saved my butt last night on more than one occasion (where the enemy wasn't easily killed with quick burst damage due to their overpowered AoE skills), and it certainly made capturing HPs or harvesting some nodes a lot easier. ;)

 

> When you move to PvP, Stealth becomes even less useful, sadly. It can be extremely annoying. If you're fighting on a point, every second you're in Stealth, you lose more control of the point. Human players are also much smarter and more lethal than AI, so they will hit you hard with AoE's when you're in Stealth, even randomly guessing where you are.

 

Okay, but when you cloak your team, they don't see you coming most of the time, which is a big plus when the enemy isn't playing stationary or currently has their traps on cooldown.

 

I assume quickness and the leathal burst damage are the thieves main tools in PvP.

 

> WvW is where Stealth becomes much more useful and important. You have lots of room to hide and maneuver. You're not limited to fighting on a point. And you can build for a lot more power there, so Backstabs are more lethal. That's not to say it makes the Thief any easier to play and win, but it at least gives you a shot.

 

I can imagine from what I know about WvW from personal experience. :)

 

P.S. Finished leveling the Deadeye on this new character, too, which obviously is one of the new elite specs that are less useful due to their inferiority to their respective HoT elite spec. It's a real shame that some professions got really great new elite specs (like Ranger, Engineer or Elementalist) while others are stuck with rather useless ones (e.g., Warrior, Thief). I think I'll start testing the Firebrand next, but that's a different forum. ;)

[NuhDah.9812]

> @"Ashantara.8731" said:

> > @"Kageseigi.2150" said:

> > Yeah, though it can be argued that the Stealth combinations are attacks for balance reasons in PvP/WvW.

>

> Highly probable.

>

> > Before Reveal skills existed, there were Thieves who could pretty much stay in Stealth for extreme periods of times (even permanently) because of Black Powder+Heartseeker/Cluster Bomb combinations while Shadow Refuge was on cooldown. The only way to make a Thief show himself was for the opponent to stand inside the Black Powder AoE and hope the Thief accidentally hit him with a Heartseeker while trying to Stealth.

>

> When was this nerfed? Because the last time I played PvP, I encountered quite a few of those quasi-perma-stealthed thieves (or maybe it just felt this way, because they constantly vanished and quickly attacked out of nowhere).

>

> > I've been out of the game for a while, but many Thieves used to use the Sword in PvE over Dagger because of the cleave. Sword/Pistol was popular because Black Powder could make you nearly invincible to most (pre-HoT) mobs due to the blind.

>

> Ah, so the nerf you were referring to was pre-HoT?

>

> > Stealth isn't so effective for combat in PvE unless it's used as an escape or to heal... because you can't kill anything while in Stealth.

>

> Exactly. But it saved my butt last night on more than one occasion (where the enemy wasn't easily killed with quick burst damage due to their overpowered AoE skills), and it certainly made capturing HPs or harvesting some nodes a lot easier. ;)

>

> > When you move to PvP, Stealth becomes even less useful, sadly. It can be extremely annoying. If you're fighting on a point, every second you're in Stealth, you lose more control of the point. Human players are also much smarter and more lethal than AI, so they will hit you hard with AoE's when you're in Stealth, even randomly guessing where you are.

>

> Okay, but when you cloak your team, they don't see you coming most of the time, which is a big plus when the enemy isn't playing stationary or currently has their traps on cooldown.

>

> I assume quickness and the leathal burst damage are the thieves main tools in PvP.

>

> > WvW is where Stealth becomes much more useful and important. You have lots of room to hide and maneuver. You're not limited to fighting on a point. And you can build for a lot more power there, so Backstabs are more lethal. That's not to say it makes the Thief any easier to play and win, but it at least gives you a shot.

>

> I can imagine from what I know about WvW from personal experience. :)

>

> P.S. Finished leveling the Deadeye on this new character, too, which obviously is one of the new elite specs that are less useful due to their inferiority to their respective HoT elite spec. It's a real shame that some professions got really great new elite specs (like Ranger, Engineer or Elementalist) while others are stuck with rather useless ones (e.g., Warrior, Thief). I think I'll start testing the Firebrand next, but that's a different forum. ;)

 

Just wanted to leave my advise for you here too. So for starters, in PVE at the moment, if you want to be effective while using a power spec the staff is the most effective for raw cleave dmg, positioning, evades and combo finishers. As for condi, there's the usual d/d condi. Not saying sword can't cleave, but it's use shines more in pvp for the ports evades and unblockable big hit, while the sustain dps is not on par with the staff's. As for single target dmg power d/d should also beat sword, so it's your choice if you want to use sword in pve, but it's not the greatest pick for it.

 

Now for the second part, the perma stealth thieves that were popular until a while ago were using a combintion of shadow arts, traps and trapper runes, along with d/p for the leaps through black powder. You get 2 or so seconds of stealth for every trap you place along with the longer duration of the stealth stacks that you gain from leaping through black powder so you could stay pretty much 100% stealthed as long as you were not revealed or hit someone with direct dmg. Since the traps were usually pretty condi potent and were not doing direct dmg, they were use to overload enemies with condition untily they were dead and without making it possible for them to retaliate properly against an invisible foe. The devs added direct dmg on traps so you get revealed right now if a foe steps throgh it, change done after someone used that perma stealth condi trapper thief to solo a raid boss.

[Ashantara.8731]

> @"NuhDah.9812" said:

> Just wanted to leave my advise for you here too. So for starters, in PVE at the moment, if you want to be effective while using a power spec the staff is the most effective for raw cleave dmg, positioning, evades and combo finishers. As for condi, there's the usual d/d condi. [...]

 

This isn't my first thief character, it's just the first I intend to play more often and explore all aspects -- since I hadn't had the motivation before to do so, I had completely neglected one aspect that is unique about the thief: stealth. Hence this thread. :)

 

Also, I posted above what weapon combos I use and that I am well aware of what works best for thieves in PvE. But thank you anyway. ;)

 

> Not saying sword can't cleave, but it's use shines more in pvp for the ports evades and unblockable big hit

 

Explains why those thieves are so mobile in PvP. ;)

 

> Now for the second part, the perma stealth thieves that were popular until a while ago were using a combintion of shadow arts, traps and trapper runes, along with d/p for the leaps through black powder. You get 2 or so seconds of stealth for every trap you place along with the longer duration of the stealth stacks that you gain from leaping through black powder so you could stay pretty much 100% stealthed as long as you were not revealed or hit someone with direct dmg. Since the traps were usually pretty condi potent and were not doing direct dmg, they were use to overload enemies with condition untily they were dead and without making it possible for them to retaliate properly against an invisible foe.

 

Ahhhh! Thanks for the detailed info. <3

 

> The devs added direct dmg on traps so you get revealed right now if a foe steps throgh it, change done after someone used that perma stealth condi trapper thief to solo a raid boss.

 

This was done last year, if I remember correctly? Bummer. Then again, perma-stealth _is_ an extreme advantage, and reading your description of how it worked, it's probably for the best. I'm surprised, though, they did not nerf it earlier, because it _was_ overpowered in PvP (at least in my opinion).

[Kageseigi.2150]

> @"Ashantara.8731" said:

> When was this nerfed? Because the last time I played PvP, I encountered quite a few of those quasi-perma-stealthed thieves (or maybe it just felt this way, because they constantly vanished and quickly attacked out of nowhere).

 

I'm not sure anything was nerfed in PvP specifically. There's a difference between constantly jumping in and out of Stealth and actually staying in Stealth ;-)

 

Perma-Stealth in PvP is 95% as ineffective as running and hiding in a corner.

 

> Ah, so the nerf you were referring to was pre-HoT?

 

Unless I've missed something, Sword/Pistol is still extremely effective in PvE. Again, you can sit in Black Powder all day, and nearly nothing will be able to touch you... at least normal mobs in the core maps.

 

> Exactly. But it saved my butt last night on more than one occasion (where the enemy wasn't easily killed with quick burst damage due to their overpowered AoE skills), and it certainly made capturing HPs or harvesting some nodes a lot easier. ;)

 

Haha, yes, Stealth is very handy. It will help you avoid damage and get to where you want to go. The problem is just killing things with it :-P

 

> Okay, but when you cloak your team, they don't see you coming most of the time, which is a big plus when the enemy isn't playing stationary or currently has their traps on cooldown.

 

Yes, cloaking your team can be an effective opening tactic, though there's not much opportunity to do so in the middle of a match. It also takes good coordination... not really something for PUGs like me :-P

 

 

> I assume quickness and the leathal burst damage are the thieves main tools in PvP.

 

Quickness can be extremely deadly with a Thief's attacks, though I'm not sure how many people build for it. I get it from the Burst of Agility trait, and I sometimes take Haste. The main reason I do is because I use Trickster for condition cleansing. Most take Thrill of the Crime and Bountiful Theft, I believe, but I've never been able to survive the constant condi-bombs. My utilities are almost always include Withdraw, Roll for Initiative, and Shadowstep (allowing for a lot of condition cleansing... especially with Haste or the occasional Scorpion Wire).

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

> @"Ashantara.8731" said:

> You must be talking about WvW tactics. I, however, was interested in more basic stuff for starters, like sneaking into HP locations and the like. (I will leave anything more complicated than that for later. ;) )

 

A piece of advice about the HP locations. You don't have to sneak most of the time. I typically just aggro everything and use Swiftness and Shadowstep to keep my distance. Once I reach the HP location, I drop the Shadows Refuge for an undisturbed channeling, and eventually, the mob will drop aggro. Then I just run, dodge, and shadowstep my way out of the location. Also, bringing the Thieves Guild or Ambush for distraction works also.