Patch notes are out.. Let the Saltstorm begin

[OriOri.8724]

> @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > @"Lordrosicky.5813" said:

> > > @"Allarius.5670" said:

> > > > @"Zietlogik.6208" said:

> > > > "Reaper's Protection: Increased the cooldown from 60 seconds to 90 seconds in PvP only."

> > > >

> > > > I am curious to see the metrics on how many people actually use this trait in sPvP and which rating brackets it is most seen in....this seems like a very strange and pointless change.

> > >

> > > It wasn't likely done due to frequency of use but because it followed the passive defense design they were trying to universally cut back. It was about trait design, not because it was competitive.

> >

> > There are at least 30 other traits that are passives AND BETTER and were not nerfed. On necro alone? Chill of death for example. Explain nerfing repears prot and not that. Makes zero sense.

>

> The patch was about nerfing passive defensives. Chill of Death has absolutely zero defensive value. It's a offensive proc not a defensive one.

>

 

Exactly. Now that this has gone through, I really hope Anet puts out another skill split patch in the very near future that addresses passive offensive proc traits as well

[Chaith.8256]

> @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > @"Lordrosicky.5813" said:

> > > @"Allarius.5670" said:

> > > > @"Zietlogik.6208" said:

> > > > "Reaper's Protection: Increased the cooldown from 60 seconds to 90 seconds in PvP only."

> > > >

> > > > I am curious to see the metrics on how many people actually use this trait in sPvP and which rating brackets it is most seen in....this seems like a very strange and pointless change.

> > >

> > > It wasn't likely done due to frequency of use but because it followed the passive defense design they were trying to universally cut back. It was about trait design, not because it was competitive.

> >

> > There are at least 30 other traits that are passives AND BETTER and were not nerfed. On necro alone? Chill of death for example. Explain nerfing repears prot and not that. Makes zero sense.

>

> The patch was about nerfing passive defensives. Chill of Death has absolutely zero defensive value. It's a offensive proc not a defensive one.

>

 

Aim-Assisted Rocket: Reduced damage by 50% in PvP and WvW.

[Crinn.7864]

> @"Chaith.8256" said:

> > @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > > @"Lordrosicky.5813" said:

> > > > @"Allarius.5670" said:

> > > > > @"Zietlogik.6208" said:

> > > > > "Reaper's Protection: Increased the cooldown from 60 seconds to 90 seconds in PvP only."

> > > > >

> > > > > I am curious to see the metrics on how many people actually use this trait in sPvP and which rating brackets it is most seen in....this seems like a very strange and pointless change.

> > > >

> > > > It wasn't likely done due to frequency of use but because it followed the passive defense design they were trying to universally cut back. It was about trait design, not because it was competitive.

> > >

> > > There are at least 30 other traits that are passives AND BETTER and were not nerfed. On necro alone? Chill of death for example. Explain nerfing repears prot and not that. Makes zero sense.

> >

> > The patch was about nerfing passive defensives. Chill of Death has absolutely zero defensive value. It's a offensive proc not a defensive one.

> >

>

> Aim-Assisted Rocket: Reduced damage by 50% in PvP and WvW.

 

Pretty sure that was just a holosmith tune down and was not related to Anet's culling of procs.

 

[BeepBoopBop.5403]

> @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > @"Chaith.8256" said:

> > > @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > > > @"Lordrosicky.5813" said:

> > > > > @"Allarius.5670" said:

> > > > > > @"Zietlogik.6208" said:

> > > > > > "Reaper's Protection: Increased the cooldown from 60 seconds to 90 seconds in PvP only."

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I am curious to see the metrics on how many people actually use this trait in sPvP and which rating brackets it is most seen in....this seems like a very strange and pointless change.

> > > > >

> > > > > It wasn't likely done due to frequency of use but because it followed the passive defense design they were trying to universally cut back. It was about trait design, not because it was competitive.

> > > >

> > > > There are at least 30 other traits that are passives AND BETTER and were not nerfed. On necro alone? Chill of death for example. Explain nerfing repears prot and not that. Makes zero sense.

> > >

> > > The patch was about nerfing passive defensives. Chill of Death has absolutely zero defensive value. It's a offensive proc not a defensive one.

> > >

> >

> > Aim-Assisted Rocket: Reduced damage by 50% in PvP and WvW.

>

> Pretty sure that was just a holosmith tune down and was not related to Anet's culling of procs.

>

 

If it was a holosmith nerf, why was it on a core engineer spec

[Mr Godlike.6098]

We got here actually the biggest contender for ,,the worst ele balance patch of year". Although amount of nerfs on other classes might make our lives a little bit easier. Still...nobody will appreciate death of core fa s/f...for no reason

[thatdarnkatz.7168]

> @"Mr Godlike.6098" said:

> We got here actually the biggest contender for ,,the worst ele balance patch of year". Although amount of nerfs on other classes might make our lives a little bit easier. Still...nobody will appreciate death of core fa s/f...for no reason

 

Balance was not the only thing this patch. They also stated that they wanted to bring new things into the meta by moving the top things out. In the top 50 were fresh air ele's last season, and they have existed since core (but changed with weaver I know), so it's time to shake things up. I ended up learning it for nothing, but I'm excited to try something new out to not make this game stale.

 

EDIT: I do believe that sword weaver will get to shine a bit more as well in PvP. I did pretty well last season on one, and it's lack of getting touched means that I may actually be able to keep climbing this season.

[Master Ketsu.4569]

Lots of people whining that their class was nerfed.

 

Reality is this was one of the better patches. The only thing it did majorly wrong was failing to address how overtuned post-rework mes is. Not just mirage but the class as a whole needs a second balance pass.

 

The buffs to Rev were also minuscule and didn't touch on why the class has been struggling for the past 5 seasons ( Rev needs utility buffs, not random energy reductions ), but we are used to that so it was as expected tbh.

[allias.1420]

nothing done about the evade uptime of mesmers, this needs to be toned down desperately

[Mr Godlike.6098]

> @"thatdarnkatz.7168" said:

> > @"Mr Godlike.6098" said:

> > We got here actually the biggest contender for ,,the worst ele balance patch of year". Although amount of nerfs on other classes might make our lives a little bit easier. Still...nobody will appreciate death of core fa s/f...for no reason

>

> Balance was not the only thing this patch. They also stated that they wanted to bring new things into the meta by moving the top things out. In the top 50 were fresh air ele's last season, and they have existed since core (but changed with weaver I know), so it's time to shake things up. I ended up learning it for nothing, but I'm excited to try something new out to not make this game stale.

>

> EDIT: I do believe that sword weaver will get to shine a bit more as well in PvP. I did pretty well last season on one, and it's lack of getting touched means that I may actually be able to keep climbing this season.

 

Till druid exists it will never shine.

[mortrialus.3062]

I think the patch notes are mostly good news all around. Changing a lot of automatic skills like Defy Pain to 90 seconds across the board is a good change for a skill split. While Magi's Amulet is gone meaning Firebrand and Druid's ability to sustain for extended periods got a serious adjustment, damage across the board for everyone was toned down. And while it's very clear Arena net is gun shy about adjusting mesmers after the largest class rework since the introduction of the Specializations, a lot of key areas were shaved. Mirror Blade losing 15% damage is quite serious as bouncing Mirror Blade off your target make up a highly underestimated portion of their shatter combo. Mental Anguish received a huge serious nerf. Jaunt was very handy as chip damage, regularly providing 2k instant damage on critical strike has been reduced by a 50%.

 

While Staff Chaos variants of mesmers are still problematic with their ability to frequently and randomly generate aegis and a million other boons, a key problem of the build has been their ability to consistently and effortlessly stack 25 might. Might generation from Sword Offhand was halved. Compounding Power, which granted a stacking damage buff when the mesmer summoned an illusion was nerfed. With less might from skills, this means Phantasmal Force isn't increasing phantasm damage as much, and the might granted by the Phantasmal Force trait has been nerfed again since it was causing a ridiculous feedback loop. Mesmers are still probably going to be top tier this season, and this doesn't fix the problem of the insane visual noise caused by phantasms no longer having any kind of limit on how many a mesmer can create at once (on top of their clones), but all of this is **good stuff. Nerfs in the right direction.** The only thing missing is Persistence of Memory, which should probably have a finite boon duration set for the boons Phantasms can give mesmer and only copy one stack of might just like Signet of Inspiration does.

 

My general concerns are that I like the idea of Fresh Air weavers in the meta, I think that's the role elementalists should be doing primarily. And the nerfs to a mediocre build I think are uncalled for when I would rather see that build encouraged. With both the removal of Magi's amulet and the serious nerfs to druid, I'm worried that the specialization will be completely removed from viability. While I wanted to see it toned down, I also liked what it did for the game mode. Revenants are still in an unfortunate place.

 

It's kind of ridiculous how many threads complain about how explosive and lethal last season's meta was, only for everyone to complain about nerfs when damage from everyone across the board gets tuned down. As said in Ben's post that was quoted earlier, balance is a moving target. And while there are still a lot of issues, pretty much everything was in the right direction.

[Vagrant.7206]

> @"coro.3176" said:

> I am a little sad about the Engi Minesweeper 33% nerf, but I get it.

>

> I liked doing

>

> * dodge back

> * line up my opponent so that they hit all the mines

> * swap to toolkit and use magnet to pull them through the mines

>

> And that will not hit nearly as hard any more.. I thought it was a pretty fair combo - I give up a dodge and they get pulled by a cc with a really long tell. Ah well, I guess it stops dodge spammers, so that's something.

>

> I'm interested to see whether stab-on-hit-only kills holosmith or if it's still playable in pvp.

 

Still quite playable, just much weaker against ranged classes and CC spam. Not like it was super strong against them before.

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

I was indifferent about the Thief Auto-Attack nerfs at first. I shrugged it off. Then I played a few matches of PvP. It feels like I'm about to have a panic attack when I try to kill anyone. I'm not just salty. Every molecule of my being has been surgically replaced with NaCl.

[thatdarnkatz.7168]

> @"Mr Godlike.6098" said:

> > @"thatdarnkatz.7168" said:

> > > @"Mr Godlike.6098" said:

> > > We got here actually the biggest contender for ,,the worst ele balance patch of year". Although amount of nerfs on other classes might make our lives a little bit easier. Still...nobody will appreciate death of core fa s/f...for no reason

> >

> > Balance was not the only thing this patch. They also stated that they wanted to bring new things into the meta by moving the top things out. In the top 50 were fresh air ele's last season, and they have existed since core (but changed with weaver I know), so it's time to shake things up. I ended up learning it for nothing, but I'm excited to try something new out to not make this game stale.

> >

> > EDIT: I do believe that sword weaver will get to shine a bit more as well in PvP. I did pretty well last season on one, and it's lack of getting touched means that I may actually be able to keep climbing this season.

>

> Till druid exists it will never shine.

 

I actually play AT's with Cello Sword with menders amulet and have comfortably held 2 to 3 people at far to let my team outnumber thanks to people like you. You all seem to think I'm very killable, and end up wasting a ton of time trying. Literally had my team laugh at me when I told them what I was about to play, and then mid match had the other team telling me, and I'll quote this "Holy hell, you are carrying your team." I did not quote that because I think I'm a good player. I wanted to let it be known that it's a lot stronger of a build than people give it credit for. If anything, they may have been bad players for thinking that I'd die when I held the point neutral for a solid 2 minutes and letting my team outnumber and I held the scourge a holo, and eventually a spellbreaker all at the point. Of course that killed me, but that's 2 minutes that they could have been on my other points killing my team.

 

TLDR: That comment makes no sense. I am doing the druids job, and better because no stealth.

[Megametzler.5729]

> @"thatdarnkatz.7168" said:

> > @"Mr Godlike.6098" said:

> > > @"thatdarnkatz.7168" said:

> > > > @"Mr Godlike.6098" said:

> > > > We got here actually the biggest contender for ,,the worst ele balance patch of year". Although amount of nerfs on other classes might make our lives a little bit easier. Still...nobody will appreciate death of core fa s/f...for no reason

> > >

> > > Balance was not the only thing this patch. They also stated that they wanted to bring new things into the meta by moving the top things out. In the top 50 were fresh air ele's last season, and they have existed since core (but changed with weaver I know), so it's time to shake things up. I ended up learning it for nothing, but I'm excited to try something new out to not make this game stale.

> > >

> > > EDIT: I do believe that sword weaver will get to shine a bit more as well in PvP. I did pretty well last season on one, and it's lack of getting touched means that I may actually be able to keep climbing this season.

> >

> > Till druid exists it will never shine.

>

> I actually play AT's with Cello Sword with menders amulet and have comfortably held 2 to 3 people at far to let my team outnumber thanks to people like you. You all seem to think I'm very killable, and end up wasting a ton of time trying. Literally had my team laugh at me when I told them what I was about to play, and then mid match had the other team telling me, and I'll quote this "Holy hell, you are carrying your team." I did not quote that because I think I'm a good player. I wanted to let it be known that it's a lot stronger of a build than people give it credit for. If anything, they may have been bad players for thinking that I'd die when I held the point neutral for a solid 2 minutes and letting my team outnumber and I held the scourge a holo, and eventually a spellbreaker all at the point. Of course that killed me, but that's 2 minutes that they could have been on my other points killing my team.

>

> TLDR: That comment makes no sense. I am doing the druids job, and better because no stealth.

 

If a druid loses the point because of stealth, he is just bad. It is an option. Just attack someone and you are out of it if you just needed the heal.

 

Ele and druid are pretty much on par when talking about sitting on points. The difference is: Ele has to put in much more effort, druid has a lot more team cap (ressing!) and can disengage more easily. And the LB-knockback on 15sec CD makes it possible to decap iy you as an ele dont time your stab properly.

 

But yes, when you are a lot better than your opponents, you can stall quite a lot or even kill something as long as you dont use mender's. And it is fun to be underestimated, yes.

[DerJoker.9081]

The patch is awesome!!

Some things are still not ideal, but all in all, look at what happened:

Powercreep reduced: CHECK

Passive defenses reduced: CHECK

Taking away dmg or survivability from strong classes instead of adding more of it to weak ones: CHECK

 

It can not be perfect, but it is the biggest step in the right direction we had in a long time!

I understand that it is important to hint at what is not working nicely at the moment, pls take time and appreciate what Anet is doing as well!

 

[FyzE.3472]

> @"DerJoker.9081" said:

> The patch is awesome!!

> Some things are still not ideal, but all in all, look at what happened:

> Powercreep reduced: CHECK

> Passive defenses reduced: CHECK

> Taking away dmg or survivability from strong classes instead of adding more of it to weak ones: CHECK

>

> It can not be perfect, but it is the biggest step in the right direction we had in a long time!

> I understand that it is important to hint at what is not working nicely at the moment, pls take time and appreciate what Anet is doing as well!

>

 

This guy/girl gets it.

[Shirlias.8104]

Overall it seems a good patch!

However...

 

> Mirror Blade: Reduced damage by 14% in PvP and WvW.

 

14%

K.

 

[Lordrosicky.5813]

> @"DerJoker.9081" said:

> The patch is awesome!!

> Some things are still not ideal, but all in all, look at what happened:

> Powercreep reduced: CHECK

> Passive defenses reduced: CHECK

> Taking away dmg or survivability from strong classes instead of adding more of it to weak ones: CHECK

>

> It can not be perfect, but it is the biggest step in the right direction we had in a long time!

> I understand that it is important to hint at what is not working nicely at the moment, pls take time and appreciate what Anet is doing as well!

>

 

At this speed the game might be good in around 22 years.

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

> @"DerJoker.9081" said:

> The patch is awesome!!

> Some things are still not ideal, but all in all, look at what happened:

> Powercreep reduced: CHECK

> Passive defenses reduced: CHECK

> Taking away dmg or survivability from strong classes instead of adding more of it to weak ones: CHECK

>

> It can not be perfect, but it is the biggest step in the right direction we had in a long time!

> I understand that it is important to hint at what is not working nicely at the moment, pls take time and appreciate what Anet is doing as well!

>

 

I can't agree with you here.

 

Most of these nerfs are fine. Not fully sure about how I feel about the cool downs. But as it stands my main class has completely lost all value in PvP. And lost just about everything that's supposed to define it's design. Granted this conclusion is from ALL of the harsh nerfs over the years, but this last one is a nail in the coffin.

 

 

 

 

Before, it was manageable. As you get to higher brackets, limitations started getting in the way. To get around the years of nerfs I've has to abuse every small little trick. Even using about face and roll abilities to cut people off or get around them. Or turning the camera to the side and about facing to strafe at speed.

 

Now it is like I have to put in FAR more effort than my opponents to win any fight as a thief. Waaaay too much than I'm willing to tolerate. If they tone down that AA Nerf... We'll see. But even with taking zerks, you're not doing anything without popping assassin's signet.

 

I honestly thought the auto nerf wouldn't be a problem. Was I wrong.

 

I'll probably just sit this season out. Anet made it clear they don't want thieves. Or make a mesmer as they basically can do everything a thief is supposed to and are relevant.

 

 

[Kuya.6495]

"waaaaaaaa, powercreep and auto-defenses!"

 

anet nerfs power creep and auto defenses.

 

"waaaaa, you nerfed my main!"

 

Can't please everyone i guess.

[Jace al Thor.6745]

> @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:

> > @"DerJoker.9081" said:

> > The patch is awesome!!

> > Some things are still not ideal, but all in all, look at what happened:

> > Powercreep reduced: CHECK

> > Passive defenses reduced: CHECK

> > Taking away dmg or survivability from strong classes instead of adding more of it to weak ones: CHECK

> >

> > It can not be perfect, but it is the biggest step in the right direction we had in a long time!

> > I understand that it is important to hint at what is not working nicely at the moment, pls take time and appreciate what Anet is doing as well!

> >

>

> I can't agree with you here.

>

> Most of these nerfs are fine. Not fully sure about how I feel about the cool downs. But as it stands my main class has completely lost all value in PvP. And lost just about everything that's supposed to define it's design. Granted this conclusion is from ALL of the harsh nerfs over the years, but this last one is a nail in the coffin.

>

>

>

>

> Before, it was manageable. As you get to higher brackets, limitations started getting in the way. To get around the years of nerfs I've has to abuse every small little trick. Even using about face and roll abilities to cut people off or get around them. Or turning the camera to the side and about facing to strafe at speed.

>

> Now it is like I have to put in FAR more effort than my opponents to win any fight as a thief. Waaaay too much than I'm willing to tolerate. If they tone down that AA Nerf... We'll see. But even with taking zerks, you're not doing anything without popping assassin's signet.

>

> I honestly thought the auto nerf wouldn't be a problem. Was I wrong.

>

> I'll probably just sit this season out. Anet made it clear they don't want thieves. Or make a mesmer as they basically can do everything a thief is supposed to and are relevant.

>

>

 

That’s because 90% +\- of the GW2 population hates fighting thieves and they have been nerfed to the extent that unless you’re really good your best bet is just to decap. It’s been like that since day one.

Just look at all the necro hate. Scourge has one thing that makes it ridiculous in PvP and that’s Sand Savant. Rework that to give stab or something rather than increase shade size and the spec is in line.

Contrary to popular belief Mesmer is the same way, right now it’s strong, very few people deny that but a couple big nerfs and a few small ones bring it in line. However, for years Mesmer has been on a roller coaster were it’ll be really good or really trashy because people don’t like fighting agaisnt it.

 

 

[Ghos.1326]

I'm generally happy about this patch so far. Through my testing, I've discovered that:

While running a tank build, I can actually survive, unless i'm jumped by 3 or more players (which is ok for a tank). I lack damage, but again, i'm a tank, not supposed to really have damage as a tank. So bunkering a point is a success.

While running a build designed for a skirmish, I can do fairly well in a 1v1, but I get demolished in anything involving more than one player. This is fine, a build designed for 1v1 should not have to survive 2v1s, or 3v1s.

While playing properly and trying not to die or put myself in sticky situations, I'm able to effectively perform the duties of whatever role i choose to follow, of course based on things like build or gear. Any mistake I made that got me killed was well deserved, because I wasn't playing to my role's advantages and strengths, and trying to play to their weaknesses instead.

 

All in all, good patch. Even mesmers don't feel overpowered to me anymore. Still strong, but now manageable.

[BeLZedaR.4790]

This patch was in the right direction but it failed on a couple of things for me:

- mesmer as in chrono/mirage are still overtuned. More importantly, they’re even more overtuned in a relative perspective despite dropping in raw power. Other classes were nerfed more.

Mostly with their quickness uptime and high defenses. Having essentially perma quickness makes it much harder to avoid its damage while still having great defences, making them hard to counter pressure.

- Renegade still never usable ever since its release. And this patch did absolutely nothing for it either.

- Scourge is still conflicting with the role of core necro. Not saying scourge should be nerfed more, I think they might be in a good spot now, but not as their intended support role. And core necro needs some love to be the condition necro spec (core shroud especially).

- tempest needed some love. Its healing is so outclasses behind firebrand that despite doing some damage and having auras it’s never worth it.

 

The most important one to me is the mesmer one, because we’re gonna get mesmer plague going on.

[Lotus.1682]

They nerfed direct damage and passive defenses which I'm ok with. By doing this however, they also indirectly buffed condi damage which is frustrating.

[Ghos.1326]

> @"Lotus.1682" said:

> They nerfed direct damage and passive defenses which I'm ok with. By doing this however, they also indirectly buffed condi damage which is frustrating.

 

Condi damage is not that strong however as it is, since the balance made for condition damage in general. Also, direct burst damage still hurts (as it should) so it all evens out in the end.