Fat Disgrace.4275 Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 > @"omgdracula.6345" said: > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said: > > screen shot's from wvw OS and LA pve. > > OS https://imgur.com/a/XYnFS > > LA https://imgur.com/a/rNJ6b > > > > > > Which is 25% Though it looks like you may have buffs applied as the numbers are blue. Even with no armor and base weapons equipped it seems the nerf is between 25-30% This was food. as you can see there is no bloodlust buff from wvw, or in LA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrHome.1920 Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 > @"Jinks.2057" said: > Now that being said for my reasoning if you read my update you'll see that the damage reduction is FAR worse than what you were told. > I got facts what you got? You are wrong. I don't know where the problem is. I logged in with my teef and took a look at the auto damage values in Lions Arch (PvE). then I logged into a WvW map and compared the values. It's exactly like expected. Auto 1 and 2 deal 25% less damage in WvW/PvP and auto 3 deals the same damage in all game modes. That's an overall damage reduction of about (not exactly) 15%. Proved by these screens: > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said: > screen shot's from wvw OS and LA pve. > OS https://imgur.com/a/XYnFS > LA https://imgur.com/a/rNJ6b _**edit:**_ Made some images too now: https://imgur.com/a/8ONnL https://imgur.com/a/K6U8m ...as expected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Disgrace.4275 Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 that "15%" feels far more than it actuially is though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omgdracula.6345 Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 > @"KrHome.1920" said: > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > Now that being said for my reasoning if you read my update you'll see that the damage reduction is FAR worse than what you were told. > > > I got facts what you got? > You are wrong. > > I don't know where the problem is. I logged in with my teef and took a look at the auto damage values in Lions Arch (PvE). then I logged into a WvW map and compared the values. It's exactly like expected. Auto 1 and 2 deal 25% less damage in WvW/PvP and auto 3 deals the same damage in all game modes. That's an overall damage reduction of about (not exactly) 15%. > > Proved by these screens: > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said: > > screen shot's from wvw OS and LA pve. > > OS https://imgur.com/a/XYnFS > > LA https://imgur.com/a/rNJ6b > > _**edit:**_ > Made some images too now: > https://imgur.com/a/8ONnL > https://imgur.com/a/K6U8m > > ...as expected. > It would be 16.7% based on your numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqueFyre.5678 Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 Just remove all gear and food and heck values to get a better baseline value between Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrHome.1920 Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 > @"omgdracula.6345" said: > It would be 16.7% based on your numbers. Correct. That's why I said "not exactly 15%". _edit:_ I equipped a sword now and the (full ascended marauder btw.) larcenous strike values are: PvE: 1447 WvW: 1175 That's about -19%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks.2057 Posted March 29, 2018 Author Share Posted March 29, 2018 > @"KrHome.1920" said: > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > Now that being said for my reasoning if you read my update you'll see that the damage reduction is FAR worse than what you were told. > > > I got facts what you got? > You are wrong. > > I don't know where the problem is. I logged in with my teef and took a look at the auto damage values in Lions Arch (PvE). then I logged into a WvW map and compared the values. It's exactly like expected. Auto 1 and 2 deal 25% less damage in WvW/PvP and auto 3 deals the same damage in all game modes. That's an overall damage reduction of about (not exactly) 15%. > > Proved by these screens: > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said: > > screen shot's from wvw OS and LA pve. > > OS https://imgur.com/a/XYnFS > > LA https://imgur.com/a/rNJ6b > > _**edit:**_ > Made some images too now: > https://imgur.com/a/8ONnL > https://imgur.com/a/K6U8m > > ...as expected. > I guess you missed the part where I went in game and actually tested the changes instead of just go off tool tips huh? By my tests, which are posted in OP under update, the damage nerfs are greater than advertised. I feel the need to full test with a 1k swing test, but with the results of the PI test I no longer feel it's necessary. That test right there shows Anet nerfed greater than the posted value. PI has zero variance and it hits for the same damage every proc. The simple fact I'm getting 44% less damage compared to the 29% that was advertised tells me these developers are lying & not trustworthy when posting numbers. I would honestly like a red name to come into this thread and defend the changes in face of the testing we've done so far. I also feel as we test more we're going to find more changes that are detrimental to thieves damage. You can defend all you want but you have zero facts and zero evidence compared to my and other's testing. If you want you can mail me and we can test together the damage in real time. Until then you should just let the evidence & facts speak. Thank You Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks.2057 Posted March 29, 2018 Author Share Posted March 29, 2018 > @"KrHome.1920" said: > > @"omgdracula.6345" said: > > It would be 16.7% based on your numbers. > Correct. That's why I said "not exactly 15%". > > _edit:_ > I equipped a sword now and the (full ascended marauder btw.) larcenous strike values are: > PvE: 1447 > WvW: 1175 > > That's about -19%. Yes larc on my tool tip was -19% as well when it was advertised at -15%. I stated that in OP. Now when I tested it on live servers I got 34%-35% less damage on WvW than PvE. That is over DOUBLE the damage nerf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrHome.1920 Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 You said you tested but proved nothing with screenshots or other data. You could have made a million mistakes like using targets with different armor values, used buffs or boons and so on... Until now I can't see any bug or strange behavior of the game that confirms your (nontransparent) testings. That's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks.2057 Posted March 29, 2018 Author Share Posted March 29, 2018 > @"KrHome.1920" said: > You said you tested but proved nothing with screenshots or other data. You could have made a million mistakes like using targets with different armor values, used buffs or boons and so on... > > Until now I can't see any bug or strange behavior of the game that confirms your (nontransparent) testings. That's all. Go ahead and take me up on my offer and we can test this under the same rules I followed. 1. No food buffs 2. Same target wearing same armor 3. You wearing same armor/weapons 4. Start in Obsidian Sanctum 5. End in Guild Hall 6. Repeat test naked except weapons The only variable is change of location/rule set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babylonn.5027 Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 I think Anet should take a look at thief dagger AA, seems nerfed way more than said -15% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks.2057 Posted March 29, 2018 Author Share Posted March 29, 2018 > @"Babylonn.5027" said: > I think Anet should take a look at thief dagger AA, seems nerfed way more than said -15% People have reported -30% I tested sword only due to time contraints Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zarcon.7820 Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > @"Babylonn.5027" said: > > I think Anet should take a look at thief dagger AA, seems nerfed way more than said -15% > > People have reported -30% > > I tested sword only due to time contraints It feels like much more then 30% but I may be wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotus.1682 Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 As much as I agree with you OP, I really don't think Anet is going to address this any time soon (if at all). I would suggest Reddit, but the only Devs that respond there are Fractal/Raids and PvE people. It's really frustrating..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omgdracula.6345 Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 I am going to take a deeper look when I get home today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lkilian.1854 Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 @"Karl McLain.5604" Hey Anet people, can we get an statement about this? Previous comments seem to confirm that there's something off with the nerf values, and I also feel the damage is too low, even for the nerf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 > @"Lotus.1682" said: > As much as I agree with you OP, I really don't think Anet is going to address this any time soon (if at all). I would suggest Reddit, but the only Devs that respond there are Fractal/Raids and PvE people. > > It's really frustrating..... Assuming your thread doesn't get downvote into Oblivion. They are very downvote happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyForgotten.4276 Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/456743#Comment_456743 So, they did a fix for engi. . . .any love for us if the numbers DO prove to be off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omgdracula.6345 Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 So I double checked today and here are screens with the numbers. I am naked armor wise with a single dagger equipped. As you can see i have 0 buffs or anything affecting my Power stat. Album Link https://imgur.com/a/AfB9p Numbers are as follows PvE Auto 1: 308(x2) -> Auto 2: 327 -> Auto 3: 424 which is a total of 1,367 damage PvP Auto 1: 214(x2) -> Auto 2: 231 -> Auto 3: 391 which is a total of 1,050 damage 1,050/1,367 comes out to 0.76810 which rounded up is 77 which is a 23% decrease Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks.2057 Posted March 30, 2018 Author Share Posted March 30, 2018 > @"omgdracula.6345" said: > So I double checked today and here are screens with the numbers. I am naked armor wise with a single dagger equipped. As you can see i have 0 buffs or anything affecting my Power stat. > > Album Link https://imgur.com/a/AfB9p > > Numbers are as follows > > PvE Auto 1: 308(x2) -> Auto 2: 327 -> Auto 3: 424 which is a total of 1,367 damage > > PvP Auto 1: 214(x2) -> Auto 2: 231 -> Auto 3: 391 which is a total of 1,050 damage > > 1,050/1,367 comes out to 0.76810 which rounded up is 77 which is a 23% decrease Wow that's the entire chain which makes the nerf on the 1st two come out to 30% nerf and as you said earlier the 3rd in chain is doing 8% less. Thanks for the work mate So this is looking like an all around nerf of thief damage well above what it was supposed to be. We could use some anet dev comments in here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omgdracula.6345 Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 No problem at all. I ran the numbers on sword autos and they are as follows PvE Auto 1 + Auto 2: 347 Auto 3: 563 Total of 1257 PvP Auto 1 + Auto 2: 213 Auto 3: 462 Total of 888 888/1257 comes out to around 70.6 which is a 29-30% decrease overall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omgdracula.6345 Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 @"Gaile Gray.6029" @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinnel.4369 Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 I'm just clocking the difference between this being addressed and the quickness with which the Mesmer confusion in PvE oversight was "remedied". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks.2057 Posted March 30, 2018 Author Share Posted March 30, 2018 > @"Tinnel.4369" said: > I'm just clocking the difference between this being addressed and the quickness with which the Mesmer confusion in PvE oversight was "remedied". Or at least a timely "Hey thanks for the report. This wasn't intended. etc" The whole silence just 100% confirms that this was intentional Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArenaNet Staff Ben Phongluangtham.1065 Posted March 30, 2018 ArenaNet Staff Share Posted March 30, 2018 We're looking at this now. From my preliminary check, looking at the actual damage multipliers in the skill scripts: PvE: 1) Double Strike (X2): 0.4 2) Wild Strike:: 0.85 3) Lotus Strike: 1.1 PvP/WvW: 1) Double Strike (x2): 0.3 (25% Reduction) 2) Wild Strike: 0.65 (23.5% Reduction) 3) Lotus Strike: 1.1 (No change) There is 0 modifier in the script for Lotus strike for PvP/WvW. We'll keep looking, to see if we're missing something else. Edit: Overall reduction to the chain is 14.5%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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