Scourge is very OP

[Dadnir.5038]

Pretty sure that even if they did all the things that the op ask for, there would still be players (op included) that would complain about "the scourge being to rewarding for how easy it is to play".

 

The scourge don't need nerfs per se and certainly not damage nerfs (or numbers tweeks if you prefer), the scourge need a rework on how the shades mechanism behave and minor fix to it's traitline. That's all it need, yet since it's a "rework" this is something that is unlikely to happen so player like the op will continue to flood the forum with their ineffective solutions to "nerf op scourge".

[Lordrosicky.5813]

> @"Flumek.9043" said:

> Henry <3

>

> Dont bother, games deader than the last time it died.

 

True :pensive:

[Kako.1930]

Scourge isn't that bad in my opinion, unless you're a spellbreaker. (I just say that because I don't play spellbreaker much but when I do the scourges melt right through my resistance lol. Maybe I'm just really bad though. xD)

 

Their mobility is crazy low, they're pretty slow in general, and they don't have a lot in terms of stunbreaks or stability either. Their good damage, ability to take a hit, and corruption abilities is what makes them viable. Without that, having them on your team would be a drag. (They kind of have to be babysat as it is anyways)

 

That's just my opinion though. You're welcome to disagree.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

> @"Lordrosicky.5813" said:

> > @"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said:

> > > @"Lordrosicky.5813" said:

> > > > @"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said:

> > > > If you just played for the first time in ages, I can see why you would think Scourge is broken. It can be difficult to beat if you have no experience fighting it. It does have very clear windows for you to go in on, but only if you know what you're looking at. The main thing to look out for is Desert Shroud. That's when they turn black and pulse out damage for a few seconds. Once that's down, you really only have Torch skills (get behind them and you're safe from Torch 4, keep walking and you're safe from Torch 5), Ghastly Breach, and a single fear that bring pain outside of the core Necro skills you're used to. Ghastly Breach, that Fear, and Desert Shroud all had their cooldowns increased this Tuesday, so these windows have opened up even more.

> > > >

> > > > Welcome back to the game.

> > >

> > > Nah dude, it is just total face roll and totally busted. No class should put out that many condis so quickly. And yes most the other classes are busted too. Mesmer, guardian and scourge all need nerfing. The others seem fine to me.

> >

> > Yes, when facing people who still need to learn where the dodge button is (and that's exactly who you would be matched against after 2 years of inactivity), it can be a total faceroll. So can a lot of things.

>

> I dont think they reset mmr. When I played the first time round I was rank 1 when the solo queue leaderboard ended. So I had the highest solo mmr in the game. Then when I came back after 2 years away I got farmed by try hards because my mmr didnt reset. I think the people I am playing against are decent

 

That changed after season 6 (not sure if it was before or after 7). Rankings got reset and MMR decays with inactivity.

[mes.4607]

> @"Axl.8924" said:

> > @"mrauls.6519" said:

> > Let them keep their AoE skills... Just reduce the amount of damage/condi output... Every AoE shouldn't be as strong as a single target skill.

> >

> > Time to nerf

>

> Every other class has to be nerfed now to keep those condi dps to survive long enough to kill things.If you nerf necro they will have zero chance to even see anything die.Burst is too high now and mesmers can blow everyone up yet everyone cries about necros.

 

To be honest, more people complain about Mesmer right now. Everything needs to be looked at. There's a good reason why everyone keeps bitching about certain elite specs. Necro AoE in PvP is wild asf. Leave them alone in PvE. Nerf their PvP AoE damage... Or increase the CD's even more

 

[Crab Fear.1624]

You know, i am a bit z-worded when it comes to the internet and video game lingos.

 

Does **OP** chance happen to stand for **Overcooked Pancakes**?

 

 

The more you know.

[Lordrosicky.5813]

> @"mrauls.6519" said:

> > @"Axl.8924" said:

> > > @"mrauls.6519" said:

> > > Let them keep their AoE skills... Just reduce the amount of damage/condi output... Every AoE shouldn't be as strong as a single target skill.

> > >

> > > Time to nerf

> >

> > Every other class has to be nerfed now to keep those condi dps to survive long enough to kill things.If you nerf necro they will have zero chance to even see anything die.Burst is too high now and mesmers can blow everyone up yet everyone cries about necros.

>

> To be honest, more people complain about Mesmer right now. Everything needs to be looked at. There's a good reason why everyone keeps kitten about certain elite specs. Necro AoE in PvP is wild asf. Leave them alone in PvE. Nerf their PvP AoE damage... Or increase the CD's even more

>

 

CD increases do not do enough. The power of the skills needs nerfing. People complain about mesmer because it is totally busted. That is a given, and it will be nerfed because it is insanely broken. But scourge is also way too strong currently. Not as OP as mesmer, but still too good

[Axl.8924]

> @"mrauls.6519" said:

> > @"Axl.8924" said:

> > > @"mrauls.6519" said:

> > > Let them keep their AoE skills... Just reduce the amount of damage/condi output... Every AoE shouldn't be as strong as a single target skill.

> > >

> > > Time to nerf

> >

> > Every other class has to be nerfed now to keep those condi dps to survive long enough to kill things.If you nerf necro they will have zero chance to even see anything die.Burst is too high now and mesmers can blow everyone up yet everyone cries about necros.

>

> To be honest, more people complain about Mesmer right now. Everything needs to be looked at. There's a good reason why everyone keeps kitten about certain elite specs. Necro AoE in PvP is wild asf. Leave them alone in PvE. Nerf their PvP AoE damage... Or increase the CD's even more

>

 

Thats a terrible idea, because it wont' solve the problem.

 

If you nerf their cd, they will just stack harder to throw countless aoes at you in WVW and in spvp? if you got 2 or more they will still wait to spam it on you.It doesn't solve how they throw aoes at you.Scourge already has a fundamental problem that its defensives were nerfed in cd increase leaving them dead in 1v1 encounters and still very effective in zergs.

 

Also:Nerfing their cds won't solve the problem and pretty sure it will just made them more easy to target in 1v1 situations and make them more useless in spvp but exactly the same in WVW, and in situations of spvp they will still wait till the perfect situation, and just throw a aoe down and corrupt your boons.

 

You would have to fix the fundamental issue of aoes colliding with eachother and all that stuff and the radius that causes problems.In fact:Maybe if you could fix the radius everything else could be undone.

 

If you got a car which gas is leaking, you solve it there.You don't go to change the engine and all that stuff.Solve the necromancer problem by fixing the radius and dealing with the aoes, not by increasing its cds unecessarily.

[Highlie.7641]

> @"mrauls.6519" said:

> Let them keep their AoE skills... Just reduce the amount of damage/condi output... Every AoE shouldn't be as strong as a single target skill.

>

> Time to nerf

 

The only Aoe that should match single target damage are ones that are locked on to your elite skill, (since they usually have longer Cd's)

[Chaarliee.2307]

Even the most retarded person can use scourge and win. Is literally just run towards your opponent, and they are dead.

But hey Anet, why don't we just nerf warrior instead !? ...

[Kinook.1497]

scourge is not OP. Yes, it deals tons of damage because it's an AOE caster. Nerfing its AOE would make it a free kill in 1v1 scenarios. That shouldn't happen. Ever.

 

You know how to nerf it? Just hit it first. The number one priority is not safety, it's the necro. Jump on him instantly in the first fight. If his spellbreaker friend is hitting you, pretend he does not exist and run to the scourge.

 

Also, lol @ OP pretending to understand game mechanics better than everyone else except maybe a few legendary players.

 

* Manifest sand shade - increase cast time to 1 second and remove the cripple

You do realise that would make the big shade talent the only option for pvp, right? And it would still be unreliable, because the other spells have cast times and big red indicators so the opponent could dodge.

Example:

Scourge is locked into scepter and wants to fear.

Begins to cast manifest sand shade. one second later, the shade is there. Casts pillar, 0.5 seconds later the fear activates. Total time spent: 1.5 seconds. Total time opponent feared: 1 second.

* Demonic lore, increased damage reduced from 33% to 10% (just in case)

How about healing the opponent for 33% of their max HP, just in case they didn't find out you can cure, convert or return condis in this game.

 

And the list continues. Sorry, but i cannot take you seriously.

 

I am not saying that necro is in a healthy state, but it just isnt OP compared to what a mesmer can do, being bursty and having insta deceiving tools, clones, and a guaranteed stomp with the dodge. You can also dodge while casting spells because you need to use all your instant spells at once, use clones and teleports untill their CD passes, and repeat. Fun gameplay.

 

Also let's not forget that revenant does not exist in PVP.

[Lordrosicky.5813]

> @"Chaarliee.2307" said:

> Even the most kitten person can use scourge and win. Is literally just run towards your opponent, and they are dead.

> But hey Anet, why don't we just nerf warrior instead !? ...

 

They need to nerf everything

[Ferus.3165]

For example why does scourge need a shade on top of themselfs? they can just stand in their own shade if they want to, there is no need for them to have a pulsing ring of death following them wherever they go. This mechanic takes out any skill that any scourge might need to play the class.

[Applesauce.5271]

Just like Mesmer, number tweaks won't fix OP mechanics. Blame the spec designer and whoever was in charge of the expansion for not reigning them in when they decided to make these monstrosities

[Aza.2105]

> @"Axl.8924" said:

> Necros don't need anymore nerfs its l2p issue.Sorry if i'm being cold, but scourge just got nerfed on their cds, and now have fairly long cds on everything.

 

Nah its broken. Aoe shouldn't be larger than the capture point. How many overly large aoe can they put on the point? 2 or 3? With scourge you don't even need to know what the skills do to succeed. All you need to do is spam them when they are off CD.

[Axl.8924]

> @"Aza.2105" said:

> > @"Axl.8924" said:

> > Necros don't need anymore nerfs its l2p issue.Sorry if i'm being cold, but scourge just got nerfed on their cds, and now have fairly long cds on everything.

>

> Nah its broken. Aoe shouldn't be larger than the capture point. How many overly large aoe can they put on the point? 2 or 3? With scourge you don't even need to know what the skills do to succeed. All you need to do is spam them when they are off CD.

 

You gotta be constantly thinking about what ccs to use and what abilities yoru enemy will use.

 

If you nerf the radius(which should have been done from the start instead of cd increase and delay) It would have been acceptable, but combining dmg nerf higher cd, delay plus radius? sorry, but no.You can't have everything.

 

Necros need some way to be competitive

 

You need to compromise.If you nerf radius along with the other stuff, necros will be furious scourge is getting nerfed so hard, and pvp will be hurt bad.IF you nerf scourges radius but un nerf other stuff(which from what i seen anet rarely does) then you got a issue.

 

Its an absolutely terrible idea to wreck a new elite.

 

What if for an example if firebrand and mirage was nerfed into the ground after their previous elite was under performing? it would be horrible.

 

Plus on top of that, new elites are supposed to perform well and be desireable, and still none of them are yet meta in pve and now both probably under perform in spvp.(Reaper being that shroud goes down too fast before they can reliably pressure, while being too slow) (scourge now having cds higher limiting their roaming to the point they will absolutely be forced to be babsyat.) this actually is terrible for the game.

 

I think at some point we will have to realize there will never be truly balanced, and even then, only way you got 100% efficient is if every class had same abilities same damage/ cc etc and then someone would cry the other is cheating or something.

[Itz Jay.8941]

> @"Jacobin.8509" said:

> To claim scourge has no defense is laughable. Yes it lacks evasion and blocks but 27k HP, 3 stun breaks, barrier spam, weakness spam, spectral armor and 2 fears is more than enough to handle on point fights.

>

> Ranging them down is the most effective counter but staff still has 1200 range and you are conceding the point which is the win condition of the game type. You either die fighting them on point or lose control of the point - win win for the scourge which is why the whole design is broken for conquest.

>

>

 

That's the problem with scourge, it's the whole design of it that isn't healthy for conquest. It's just an AoE condition spewing mess, stick it with a firebrand which is a tanking healing mess and you have a tanking healing condition spewing boon ripping mess. Neither scourge or firebrand are healthy for conquest, they need serious reworks along with mirage which is a 1v1 god (and I mainly play mirage myself).

 

Everything else is just too bursty, and its on demand burst too, the cooldowns are pathetic, the overall damage needs toning down massively. There is no teamfighting and duelling anymore, it's a case of who can burst who first, you can focus the necro but if they have burst classes they are gonna kill you before you can put a dent in the scourge.

[pah.4931]

> @"Itz Jay.8941" said:

> > @"Jacobin.8509" said:

> > To claim scourge has no defense is laughable. Yes it lacks evasion and blocks but 27k HP, 3 stun breaks, barrier spam, weakness spam, spectral armor and 2 fears is more than enough to handle on point fights.

> >

> > Ranging them down is the most effective counter but staff still has 1200 range and you are conceding the point which is the win condition of the game type. You either die fighting them on point or lose control of the point - win win for the scourge which is why the whole design is broken for conquest.

> >

> >

>

> That's the problem with scourge, it's the whole design of it that isn't healthy for conquest. It's just an AoE condition spewing mess, stick it with a firebrand which is a tanking healing mess and you have a tanking healing condition spewing boon ripping mess. Neither scourge or firebrand are healthy for conquest, they need serious reworks along with mirage which is a 1v1 god (and I mainly play mirage myself).

>

> Everything else is just too bursty, and its on demand burst too, the cooldowns are pathetic, the overall damage needs toning down massively. There is no teamfighting and duelling anymore, it's a case of who can burst who first, you can focus the necro but if they have burst classes they are gonna kill you before you can put a dent in the scourge.

 

You are correct. Conquest is the problem. They need to take a season off to redo maps and pvp structure so we have about 5 or 6 different types of gamemodes in the random queue so that every single match isn't conquest. eSports are dead. Let us have some fun with new gamemodes and builds.

[Vagrant.7206]

> @"Axl.8924" said:

> > @"Aza.2105" said:

> > > @"Axl.8924" said:

> > > Necros don't need anymore nerfs its l2p issue.Sorry if i'm being cold, but scourge just got nerfed on their cds, and now have fairly long cds on everything.

> >

> > Nah its broken. Aoe shouldn't be larger than the capture point. How many overly large aoe can they put on the point? 2 or 3? With scourge you don't even need to know what the skills do to succeed. All you need to do is spam them when they are off CD.

>

> You gotta be constantly thinking about what ccs to use and what abilities yoru enemy will use.

>

> If you nerf the radius(which should have been done from the start instead of cd increase and delay) It would have been acceptable, but combining dmg nerf higher cd, delay plus radius? sorry, but no.You can't have everything.

>

> Necros need some way to be competitive

>

> You need to compromise.If you nerf radius along with the other stuff, necros will be furious scourge is getting nerfed so hard, and pvp will be hurt bad.IF you nerf scourges radius but un nerf other stuff(which from what i seen anet rarely does) then you got a issue.

>

> Its an absolutely terrible idea to wreck a new elite.

>

> What if for an example if firebrand and mirage was nerfed into the ground after their previous elite was under performing? it would be horrible.

>

> Plus on top of that, new elites are supposed to perform well and be desireable, and still none of them are yet meta in pve and now both probably under perform in spvp.(Reaper being that shroud goes down too fast before they can reliably pressure, while being too slow) (scourge now having cds higher limiting their roaming to the point they will absolutely be forced to be babsyat.) this actually is terrible for the game.

>

> I think at some point we will have to realize there will never be truly balanced, and even then, only way you got 100% efficient is if every class had same abilities same damage/ cc etc and then someone would cry the other is cheating or something.

 

The biggest problem IMO is just how potent the spec is while being absolutely braindead to use. I have no problem with the damage it deals, but it's way too easy to apply, and requires virtually no effort. Sand savant needs to be changed or removed, but the scourge being its own shade is also a problem -- They can just run at you and spam skills, in the way a bot might.

[Lordrosicky.5813]

> @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > @"Axl.8924" said:

> > > @"Aza.2105" said:

> > > > @"Axl.8924" said:

> > > > Necros don't need anymore nerfs its l2p issue.Sorry if i'm being cold, but scourge just got nerfed on their cds, and now have fairly long cds on everything.

> > >

> > > Nah its broken. Aoe shouldn't be larger than the capture point. How many overly large aoe can they put on the point? 2 or 3? With scourge you don't even need to know what the skills do to succeed. All you need to do is spam them when they are off CD.

> >

> > You gotta be constantly thinking about what ccs to use and what abilities yoru enemy will use.

> >

> > If you nerf the radius(which should have been done from the start instead of cd increase and delay) It would have been acceptable, but combining dmg nerf higher cd, delay plus radius? sorry, but no.You can't have everything.

> >

> > Necros need some way to be competitive

> >

> > You need to compromise.If you nerf radius along with the other stuff, necros will be furious scourge is getting nerfed so hard, and pvp will be hurt bad.IF you nerf scourges radius but un nerf other stuff(which from what i seen anet rarely does) then you got a issue.

> >

> > Its an absolutely terrible idea to wreck a new elite.

> >

> > What if for an example if firebrand and mirage was nerfed into the ground after their previous elite was under performing? it would be horrible.

> >

> > Plus on top of that, new elites are supposed to perform well and be desireable, and still none of them are yet meta in pve and now both probably under perform in spvp.(Reaper being that shroud goes down too fast before they can reliably pressure, while being too slow) (scourge now having cds higher limiting their roaming to the point they will absolutely be forced to be babsyat.) this actually is terrible for the game.

> >

> > I think at some point we will have to realize there will never be truly balanced, and even then, only way you got 100% efficient is if every class had same abilities same damage/ cc etc and then someone would cry the other is cheating or something.

>

> The biggest problem IMO is just how potent the spec is while being absolutely braindead to use. I have no problem with the damage it deals, but it's way too easy to apply, and requires virtually no effort. Sand savant needs to be changed or removed, but the scourge being its own shade is also a problem -- They can just run at you and spam skills, in the way a bot might.

 

The skill needed is probably not high for any specs. But the problem isn't that imo. The problem is the raw power. The amount of condis is just too much. Scourge is the sort of spec that just ruins any test builds people make.

 

"O look I made a cool new build"

*Goes into pvp*

*Scourge kills you in 5 seconds*

"FML"

 

Mesmer has the same role. Thief historically has always done this too. Any build not super tuned will just get trashed by thief

[Vagrant.7206]

> @"Lordrosicky.5813" said:

> > @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > > @"Axl.8924" said:

> > > > @"Aza.2105" said:

> > > > > @"Axl.8924" said:

> > > > > Necros don't need anymore nerfs its l2p issue.Sorry if i'm being cold, but scourge just got nerfed on their cds, and now have fairly long cds on everything.

> > > >

> > > > Nah its broken. Aoe shouldn't be larger than the capture point. How many overly large aoe can they put on the point? 2 or 3? With scourge you don't even need to know what the skills do to succeed. All you need to do is spam them when they are off CD.

> > >

> > > You gotta be constantly thinking about what ccs to use and what abilities yoru enemy will use.

> > >

> > > If you nerf the radius(which should have been done from the start instead of cd increase and delay) It would have been acceptable, but combining dmg nerf higher cd, delay plus radius? sorry, but no.You can't have everything.

> > >

> > > Necros need some way to be competitive

> > >

> > > You need to compromise.If you nerf radius along with the other stuff, necros will be furious scourge is getting nerfed so hard, and pvp will be hurt bad.IF you nerf scourges radius but un nerf other stuff(which from what i seen anet rarely does) then you got a issue.

> > >

> > > Its an absolutely terrible idea to wreck a new elite.

> > >

> > > What if for an example if firebrand and mirage was nerfed into the ground after their previous elite was under performing? it would be horrible.

> > >

> > > Plus on top of that, new elites are supposed to perform well and be desireable, and still none of them are yet meta in pve and now both probably under perform in spvp.(Reaper being that shroud goes down too fast before they can reliably pressure, while being too slow) (scourge now having cds higher limiting their roaming to the point they will absolutely be forced to be babsyat.) this actually is terrible for the game.

> > >

> > > I think at some point we will have to realize there will never be truly balanced, and even then, only way you got 100% efficient is if every class had same abilities same damage/ cc etc and then someone would cry the other is cheating or something.

> >

> > The biggest problem IMO is just how potent the spec is while being absolutely braindead to use. I have no problem with the damage it deals, but it's way too easy to apply, and requires virtually no effort. Sand savant needs to be changed or removed, but the scourge being its own shade is also a problem -- They can just run at you and spam skills, in the way a bot might.

>

> The skill needed is probably not high for any specs. But the problem isn't that imo. The problem is the raw power. The amount of condis is just too much. Scourge is the sort of spec that just ruins any test builds people make.

>

> "O look I made a cool new build"

> *Goes into pvp*

> *Scourge kills you in 5 seconds*

> "FML"

>

> Mesmer has the same role. Thief historically has always done this too. Any build not super tuned will just get trashed by thief

 

But even mesmer or thief requires a modicum of intelligence and skill to use properly. Scourge, you literally just spam all your skills and run at your target. No build that easy should be that effective.

[Dreddo.9865]

Scourge has a 27k HP pool that goes to zero in less than a second when focused- the barriers don't last but some seconds. So as some people here proposed look for the 'shroud' and 'avoid it'. Scourge can't deal with pressure unless is closely supported my teammates or is a master in kiting. Also the scourge may apply some conditions but if it applies stacking on you it's your fault - no offense. When the scourge lays down the Shade you should probably be aware of what is coming and should learn to avoid it.

 

It has three stunbreaks? Yes if you sacrifice plague signet which now comes on a very long cooldown and then good luck responding to condi pressure with Putrid mark only. Trail Anguish? Your one and only stability util. Spectral armor may give protection (-33% damage on a 0 toughness build) but you are still susceptible to slow, cripple, immobilize, knockback and you have no blocks, invulns, etc. just your HP pool to take the punishment.

 

All these have been talked for ages still people come here and ask for further scourge nerfs. As if one shot mesmers, weavers and everlasting druids are just fine. ^^

[Abazigal.3679]

> @"Itz Jay.8941" said:

> > @"Jacobin.8509" said:

> > To claim scourge has no defense is laughable. Yes it lacks evasion and blocks but 27k HP, 3 stun breaks, barrier spam, weakness spam, spectral armor and 2 fears is more than enough to handle on point fights.

> >

> > Ranging them down is the most effective counter but staff still has 1200 range and you are conceding the point which is the win condition of the game type. You either die fighting them on point or lose control of the point - win win for the scourge which is why the whole design is broken for conquest.

> >

> >

>

> That's the problem with scourge, it's the whole design of it that isn't healthy for conquest. It's just an AoE condition spewing mess, stick it with a firebrand which is a tanking healing mess and you have a tanking healing condition spewing boon ripping mess. Neither scourge or firebrand are healthy for conquest, they need serious reworks along with mirage which is a 1v1 god (and I mainly play mirage myself).

>

> Everything else is just too bursty, and its on demand burst too, the cooldowns are pathetic, the overall damage needs toning down massively. There is no teamfighting and duelling anymore, it's a case of who can burst who first, you can focus the necro but if they have burst classes they are gonna kill you before you can put a dent in the scourge.

 

This exactly. It's not about scourges being hard to play/counter, but the design makes that it requires you to have to either die on point either fight off point. Plus, let's not forget fights where you have to battle 2 scourges on stillness or skyhamer buffs, which involves you to have a dedicated setup for it. If not either you get rolled on point, either you abandon buffs but still lose all 3 points. Not really entertaining..

[Lordrosicky.5813]

> @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > @"Lordrosicky.5813" said:

> > > @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > > > @"Axl.8924" said:

> > > > > @"Aza.2105" said:

> > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said:

> > > > > > Necros don't need anymore nerfs its l2p issue.Sorry if i'm being cold, but scourge just got nerfed on their cds, and now have fairly long cds on everything.

> > > > >

> > > > > Nah its broken. Aoe shouldn't be larger than the capture point. How many overly large aoe can they put on the point? 2 or 3? With scourge you don't even need to know what the skills do to succeed. All you need to do is spam them when they are off CD.

> > > >

> > > > You gotta be constantly thinking about what ccs to use and what abilities yoru enemy will use.

> > > >

> > > > If you nerf the radius(which should have been done from the start instead of cd increase and delay) It would have been acceptable, but combining dmg nerf higher cd, delay plus radius? sorry, but no.You can't have everything.

> > > >

> > > > Necros need some way to be competitive

> > > >

> > > > You need to compromise.If you nerf radius along with the other stuff, necros will be furious scourge is getting nerfed so hard, and pvp will be hurt bad.IF you nerf scourges radius but un nerf other stuff(which from what i seen anet rarely does) then you got a issue.

> > > >

> > > > Its an absolutely terrible idea to wreck a new elite.

> > > >

> > > > What if for an example if firebrand and mirage was nerfed into the ground after their previous elite was under performing? it would be horrible.

> > > >

> > > > Plus on top of that, new elites are supposed to perform well and be desireable, and still none of them are yet meta in pve and now both probably under perform in spvp.(Reaper being that shroud goes down too fast before they can reliably pressure, while being too slow) (scourge now having cds higher limiting their roaming to the point they will absolutely be forced to be babsyat.) this actually is terrible for the game.

> > > >

> > > > I think at some point we will have to realize there will never be truly balanced, and even then, only way you got 100% efficient is if every class had same abilities same damage/ cc etc and then someone would cry the other is cheating or something.

> > >

> > > The biggest problem IMO is just how potent the spec is while being absolutely braindead to use. I have no problem with the damage it deals, but it's way too easy to apply, and requires virtually no effort. Sand savant needs to be changed or removed, but the scourge being its own shade is also a problem -- They can just run at you and spam skills, in the way a bot might.

> >

> > The skill needed is probably not high for any specs. But the problem isn't that imo. The problem is the raw power. The amount of condis is just too much. Scourge is the sort of spec that just ruins any test builds people make.

> >

> > "O look I made a cool new build"

> > *Goes into pvp*

> > *Scourge kills you in 5 seconds*

> > "FML"

> >

> > Mesmer has the same role. Thief historically has always done this too. Any build not super tuned will just get trashed by thief

>

> But even mesmer or thief requires a modicum of intelligence and skill to use properly. Scourge, you literally just spam all your skills and run at your target. No build that easy should be that effective.

 

Meh they are all played like you follow a basic rotation and you win. There is minor skill differences perhaps but all are stupidly easy. Perhaps even mesmer is easiest of all because of so many get out of jail free buttons

[brannigan.9831]

> @"Dreddo.9865" said:

> Scourge has a 27k HP pool that goes to zero in less than a second when focused- the barriers don't last but some seconds. So as some people here proposed look for the 'shroud' and 'avoid it'. Scourge can't deal with pressure unless is closely supported my teammates or is a master in kiting. Also the scourge may apply some conditions but if it applies stacking on you it's your fault - no offense. When the scourge lays down the Shade you should probably be aware of what is coming and should learn to avoid it.

>

> It has three stunbreaks? Yes if you sacrifice plague signet which now comes on a very long cooldown and then good luck responding to condi pressure with Putrid mark only. Trail Anguish? Your one and only stability util. Spectral armor may give protection (-33% damage on a 0 toughness build) but you are still susceptible to slow, cripple, immobilize, knockback and you have no blocks, invulns, etc. just your HP pool to take the punishment.

>

> All these have been talked for ages still people come here and ask for further scourge nerfs. As if one shot mesmers, weavers and everlasting druids are just fine. ^^

 

You don't address any of the problems with the class just excuse make. They are easy to kill with coordination but I don't know if you get this or not but we have total solo queue rated right now basically. I call scourge all the time and half the people just continue attacking whatever is closest to them and that pretty much happens at all skill levels. And whether you want to accept it or not dedicated support like Firebrand exist. Also you do not adress the fact that it is bad balance to have aoe attacks that are stronger then many single tagert attacks and that forcing people off a point to avoid death is ludicrous in a game about holding points. Whether you can deal with scourge sometimes is not the point. The class is badly desgined at the moment for conquest style pvp.