Crinn.7864 Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 > @Justine.6351 said: > > @Exqq.7451 said: > > Barrier should only decay when you're out of combat. In combat, no decay. > > Because barrier-face-tank meta totally wouldn't happen? Oh please WvW is the only mode where that even has the a chance of occurring. Such a strat would do nothing in the competitive modes. but hey lets keep scourge in garbage tier just to suit WvW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justine.6351 Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 > @Crinn.7864 said: > > @Justine.6351 said: > > > @Exqq.7451 said: > > > Barrier should only decay when you're out of combat. In combat, no decay. > > > > Because barrier-face-tank meta totally wouldn't happen? > > Oh please WvW is the only mode where that even has the a chance of occurring. Such a strat would do nothing in the competitive modes. > > but hey lets keep scourge in garbage tier just to suit WvW. ESO has a similar shielding mechanic that doesn't decay. It is face tanking 1vX because people shield stack. Without a decay, left over barrier would just continue to build up during combat with spike damage being passively countered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Link.6157 Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 I love the concept of it but it is indeed too quickly decaying. This could be what makes us at least a bit helpful in partys and squads but the way it is now, to little. For scepter builds the life force gain is slow and not enough barriers if you pick the Sadistic Searing for damage. I love the trait Blighter's Boon for reaper and kind of mis that for Scourge. Maybe i'm didn't use a great built for CD but even now, I'm playing zerker dagger main hand, which has enough life force but because it decays so fast it's just a spamfest to keep up a small amount of barrier = not so much fun as it could be to play. Because i really like scourge otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kam.4092 Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 I don't think Barrier should be made better when we are full Viper's. I think having to gear for it to be better makes more sense. If they buff it too much, then they'd need to nerf our DPS, which would be bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoltreez.6435 Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 > @Justine.6351 said: > > @Crinn.7864 said: > > > @Justine.6351 said: > > > > @Exqq.7451 said: > > > > Barrier should only decay when you're out of combat. In combat, no decay. > > > > > > Because barrier-face-tank meta totally wouldn't happen? > > > > Oh please WvW is the only mode where that even has the a chance of occurring. Such a strat would do nothing in the competitive modes. > > > > but hey lets keep scourge in garbage tier just to suit WvW. > > ESO has a similar shielding mechanic that doesn't decay. It is face tanking 1vX because people shield stack. Without a decay, left over barrier would just continue to build up during combat with spike damage being passively countered. in Eso you can SPAM ALL of your abilities 24/7 they have no CD and with good gear you have almost infinite resources to use them so no THAT is not how it would work here.... ALSO in eso Barriers CANNOT be crited so yeah.... don't compare mechanics when you don't know how they work.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoltreez.6435 Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 > @Justine.6351 said: > > @Doodledibob.2456 said: > > Yes, it decays too fast. > > > > See the way it works is this: if you apply barrier, and then barrier again, it resets the decay timer. > > > > The problem: You don't have enough skills that apply barrier, and those that do are mostly on too long a cooldown to allow you to repeatedly have stacks. > > > > Also, why have barrier on your party if a druid can just out-heal the damage taken, and provide more meaningful contributions? Since you're already giving up DPS in favor of might/barrier support (which is a compromise something like cPS doesn't have to make). > > Maybe because they didn't expect one class to rule them all? > > Why is everyone all "we must have permanent barrier"? because as a NECRO WE HAVE NOTHING ELSE TO DEFEND US.. everyone is runing arround with literal spammable ammount of Blocks,Immunes,6 dodges,stealths/invis,mobility and crazy healing abilities.... we have NOTHING of these and now we even LOST shroud.... so we have 1 existing defense of ALL and thats the barrier.... and right now Barrier Scales shit lasts for NOTHING and protects againts like what 1 single crit ? againts a half decend player lol so yeah as our single existing DEFENSE it should be god damn good...... yet its like its not even there..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyel.1843 Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 > > @Crinn.7864 said: >ESO has a similar shielding mechanic that doesn't decay. It is face tanking 1vX because people shield stack. Without a decay, left over barrier would just continue to build up during combat with spike damage being passively countered. Well, ESO has no balance whatsoever. And ESO is very different when it comes to that. Shields in ESO are put of control because there are no restrictions or limitations for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justine.6351 Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 > @Nyel.1843 said: > > > > @Crinn.7864 said: > >ESO has a similar shielding mechanic that doesn't decay. It is face tanking 1vX because people shield stack. Without a decay, left over barrier would just continue to build up during combat with spike damage being passively countered. > > Well, ESO has no balance whatsoever. And ESO is very different when it comes to that. Shields in ESO are put of control **because there are no restrictions or limitations for them.** And so why are people asking to remove decay while in combat then... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardRider.2980 Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 > @Justine.6351 said: > > @Nyel.1843 said: > > > > > > @Crinn.7864 said: > > >ESO has a similar shielding mechanic that doesn't decay. It is face tanking 1vX because people shield stack. Without a decay, left over barrier would just continue to build up during combat with spike damage being passively countered. > > > > Well, ESO has no balance whatsoever. And ESO is very different when it comes to that. Shields in ESO are put of control **because there are no restrictions or limitations for them.** > And so why are people asking to remove decay while in combat then... > Because necro has nothing to defend themselves with and atm barrier decays far too fast to be anything meaningful without spamming (and wasting other important skills) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadnir.5038 Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 > @HardRider.2980 said: > > @Justine.6351 said: > > > @Nyel.1843 said: > > > > > > > > @Crinn.7864 said: > > > >ESO has a similar shielding mechanic that doesn't decay. It is face tanking 1vX because people shield stack. Without a decay, left over barrier would just continue to build up during combat with spike damage being passively countered. > > > > > > Well, ESO has no balance whatsoever. And ESO is very different when it comes to that. Shields in ESO are put of control **because there are no restrictions or limitations for them.** > > And so why are people asking to remove decay while in combat then... > > > > Because necro has nothing to defend themselves with and atm barrier decays far too fast to be anything meaningful without spamming (and wasting other important skills) Then shouldn't we say that it's balanced? You trade off your offense for some defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyel.1843 Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 > @Justine.6351 said: > > @Nyel.1843 said: > > > > > > @Crinn.7864 said: > > >ESO has a similar shielding mechanic that doesn't decay. It is face tanking 1vX because people shield stack. Without a decay, left over barrier would just continue to build up during combat with spike damage being passively countered. > > > > Well, ESO has no balance whatsoever. And ESO is very different when it comes to that. Shields in ESO are put of control **because there are no restrictions or limitations for them.** > And so why are people asking to remove decay while in combat then... > Decay is not the problem, the problem is how fast decay starts. I would say even 5 sec delay is not too much. Imho decay is right but a) should start some seconds later and b) should decay slower overall. Make it 3 sec + 33% slower decay and it's okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoltreez.6435 Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 > @Dadnir.5038 said: > > @HardRider.2980 said: > > > @Justine.6351 said: > > > > @Nyel.1843 said: > > > > > > > > > > @Crinn.7864 said: > > > > >ESO has a similar shielding mechanic that doesn't decay. It is face tanking 1vX because people shield stack. Without a decay, left over barrier would just continue to build up during combat with spike damage being passively countered. > > > > > > > > Well, ESO has no balance whatsoever. And ESO is very different when it comes to that. Shields in ESO are put of control **because there are no restrictions or limitations for them.** > > > And so why are people asking to remove decay while in combat then... > > > > > > > Because necro has nothing to defend themselves with and atm barrier decays far too fast to be anything meaningful without spamming (and wasting other important skills) > > Then shouldn't we say that it's balanced? You trade off your offense for some defense. > Let me fix that We trade of dmg for defense that is WORSE then what other classes have from the get go for free and they barely need to sacrafice anything or nothing at all for it..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muchacho.2390 Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 > @Nyel.1843 said: > > @Justine.6351 said: > > > @Nyel.1843 said: > > > > > > > > @Crinn.7864 said: > > > >ESO has a similar shielding mechanic that doesn't decay. It is face tanking 1vX because people shield stack. Without a decay, left over barrier would just continue to build up during combat with spike damage being passively countered. > > > > > > Well, ESO has no balance whatsoever. And ESO is very different when it comes to that. Shields in ESO are put of control **because there are no restrictions or limitations for them.** > > And so why are people asking to remove decay while in combat then... > > > > Decay is not the problem, the problem is how fast decay starts. I would say even 5 sec delay is not too much. Imho decay is right but a) should start some seconds later and b) should decay slower overall. Make it 3 sec + 33% slower decay and it's okay. I agree but 5 seconds may be to much. I think 3 or 4 seconds before the decay starts is a good value. For the decay it self i think is fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maunzi.3764 Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 > @Dadnir.5038 said: > > @HardRider.2980 said: > > > @Justine.6351 said: > > > > @Nyel.1843 said: > > > > > > > > > > @Crinn.7864 said: > > > > >ESO has a similar shielding mechanic that doesn't decay. It is face tanking 1vX because people shield stack. Without a decay, left over barrier would just continue to build up during combat with spike damage being passively countered. > > > > > > > > Well, ESO has no balance whatsoever. And ESO is very different when it comes to that. Shields in ESO are put of control **because there are no restrictions or limitations for them.** > > > And so why are people asking to remove decay while in combat then... > > > > > > > Because necro has nothing to defend themselves with and atm barrier decays far too fast to be anything meaningful without spamming (and wasting other important skills) > > Then shouldn't we say that it's balanced? You trade off your offense for some defense. But you don't. You can't. You cannot trade your offense here, because big chunks of barrier come right with F3 and F5, the latter being our best damaging skill. This "defense" is also objectively worse to distortions, aegis, blocks, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sublimatio.6981 Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 anet should make the barrier NOT DECAY at all in PvE on players, because its not worth it altogether atm. Also agony reduces applied barrier which is also either a bug or bad design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
czerwoni.9563 Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 > @Zefiris.8297 said: > Look, scourge is not actually a support spec - whatever dev originally planned that obviously got overruled. > > This means our main purpose is damage. Barrier can therefore not be superb to begin with. Use it right before dangerous mechanics, and it actually DOES shine. It is even worth delaying F5 for that. F5+Heal = a TON of barrier. exactly what i do, full vipers and i just run through everything, i even tried to solo some hot hero points with half scourge unlocked and its doable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoltreez.6435 Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 > @czerwoni.9563 said: > > @Zefiris.8297 said: > > Look, scourge is not actually a support spec - whatever dev originally planned that obviously got overruled. > > > > This means our main purpose is damage. Barrier can therefore not be superb to begin with. Use it right before dangerous mechanics, and it actually DOES shine. It is even worth delaying F5 for that. F5+Heal = a TON of barrier. > > exactly what i do, full vipers and i just run through everything, i even tried to solo some hot hero points with half scourge unlocked and its doable. with trailblazer you can solo anything while eating and watching youtube lol.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maunzi.3764 Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 > @czerwoni.9563 said: > > @Zefiris.8297 said: > > Look, scourge is not actually a support spec - whatever dev originally planned that obviously got overruled. > > > > This means our main purpose is damage. Barrier can therefore not be superb to begin with. Use it right before dangerous mechanics, and it actually DOES shine. It is even worth delaying F5 for that. F5+Heal = a TON of barrier. > > exactly what i do, full vipers and i just run through everything, i even tried to solo some hot hero points with half scourge unlocked and its doable. You can solo most of them nowadays. They were nerfed since release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curennos.9307 Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Oh lawdie, and so begins all the problems ESO has with its absorb shields. Make it match the decay of LF in shroud (and speed it up a bit in WvW) and it'll be fine. Or they could do something -really- innovative and make it decay slower based on healing power. Whoa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zefiris.8297 Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 > @Curennos.9307 said: > Oh lawdie, and so begins all the problems ESO has with its absorb shields. > > Make it match the decay of LF in shroud (and speed it up a bit in WvW) and it'll be fine. > > Or they could do something -really- innovative and make it decay slower based on healing power. Whoa Even more innovative: _**On concentration/boon duration**_. Imagine that, our secondary minor would even have synergy with barrier! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arricson Krei.9560 Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 (From a WvW point of view) I don't think Barriers should be decaying more slowly. The profession mechanics that inherently apply barrier (F3 and F5) are cast instantly and a skillful Necromancer should be able to mitigate big hits through careful watch of the enemy. This of course really only works in small scale, but in the thick of large scale WvW, your barrier will definitely find use _at least_ by mitigating stray damage. As for non-instant cast time skills, use them pre-emptively. Also, people are saying that in taking Scourge, one gives up their personal defense at too high of a cost. Well, you give up personal defense for allied defense and party utility. Not every spec is meant to be top tier in every game mode, not every spec has to do damage. Scourge will thrive in group settings where barriers are valuable and boons are prevalent, and Scourge will probably be less valuable where there's neither the need to cleanse conditions nor invest in area denial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardRider.2980 Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 > @Sublimatio.6981 said: > anet should make the barrier NOT DECAY at all in PvE on players, because its not worth it altogether atm. > Also agony reduces applied barrier which is also either a bug or bad design. I hope you bug reported that ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curennos.9307 Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 > @"Arricson Krei.9560" said: > (From a WvW point of view) > I don't think Barriers should be decaying more slowly. The profession mechanics that inherently apply barrier (F3 and F5) are cast instantly and a skillful Necromancer should be able to mitigate big hits through careful watch of the enemy. This of course really only works in small scale, but in the thick of large scale WvW, your barrier will definitely find use _at least_ by mitigating stray damage. > As for non-instant cast time skills, use them pre-emptively. > > Also, people are saying that in taking Scourge, one gives up their personal defense at too high of a cost. Well, you give up personal defense for allied defense and party utility. Not every spec is meant to be top tier in every game mode, not every spec has to do damage. Scourge will thrive in group settings where barriers are valuable and boons are prevalent, and Scourge will probably be less valuable where there's neither the need to cleanse conditions nor invest in area denial. I think it's been pretty well established that barrier shines in WvW (and maybe sPvP?), but is lackluster in PVE content. I hate to just go round and round in a circle discussion, but seems that's necessary until Anet notices this. So. Uh. Yeah. Agree agree. Split how it functions in PvP vs. PVE. Kthx. Wee. Woo. Or do one of the suggestions above. Derp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lily.1935 Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 They don't. Barrier is fantastic as is difficult to use but when used correctly is powerful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mazut.4296 Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 Definitely need an increase in duration before decay. From 1 sec to 3sec. Also Decay should be a little bit slower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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