FyzE.3472 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 > @"apharma.3741" said: > I think a lot of people seem to have forgotten that Mesmer phantasms were just changed in how they work as well as some getting attack updates. This means there’s some L2P in what you avoid and how to cheese the new phantasms into doing no damage but also there’s some balancing that needs to be done, like disenchanter damage coming down a bit. > > I very rarely see anyone LoS phantasms, my favourite is how people seem to ignore the phantasmal mage pottering up behind them, stretching its arms in front of it, lifting them above its head ready for the almighty fire wave to follow. It’s very well telegraphed and you have 2 opportunities to deny the skill, first by interrupting, blinding or LoS the phantasm and secondly by killing the phantasm. How many other classes and skills in the game can you say that there’s 2 opportunities to counter it? > > Yes Elusive Mind is too strong, yes I’ve said many times even just after PoF that it was overpowered and said the stun break should be removed. Yes disenchanter damage is a tad too high but it’s also only on boonless targets which isn’t exactly common, imo it should do damage per boon removed not insane damage to boonless. Yes Swordsman is too strong, it’s the strongest offhand phantasm there is. However don’t mistake a video taking a strong build into PvP against potatoes as proof it’s too good. > > Finally remember, when you point a finger at someone else, there’s 3 pointing back at you. Many here won’t even admit to the aspects on their own classes that are overpowered. DE's Death judgement has more than 2 ways to avoid it, yet people still complain about it lol. Welcome to the forums ;-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace al Thor.6745 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 > @"FyzE.3472" said: > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > I think a lot of people seem to have forgotten that Mesmer phantasms were just changed in how they work as well as some getting attack updates. This means there’s some L2P in what you avoid and how to cheese the new phantasms into doing no damage but also there’s some balancing that needs to be done, like disenchanter damage coming down a bit. > > > > I very rarely see anyone LoS phantasms, my favourite is how people seem to ignore the phantasmal mage pottering up behind them, stretching its arms in front of it, lifting them above its head ready for the almighty fire wave to follow. It’s very well telegraphed and you have 2 opportunities to deny the skill, first by interrupting, blinding or LoS the phantasm and secondly by killing the phantasm. How many other classes and skills in the game can you say that there’s 2 opportunities to counter it? > > > > Yes Elusive Mind is too strong, yes I’ve said many times even just after PoF that it was overpowered and said the stun break should be removed. Yes disenchanter damage is a tad too high but it’s also only on boonless targets which isn’t exactly common, imo it should do damage per boon removed not insane damage to boonless. Yes Swordsman is too strong, it’s the strongest offhand phantasm there is. However don’t mistake a video taking a strong build into PvP against potatoes as proof it’s too good. > > > > Finally remember, when you point a finger at someone else, there’s 3 pointing back at you. Many here won’t even admit to the aspects on their own classes that are overpowered. > DE's Death judgement has more than 2 ways to avoid it, yet people still complain about it lol. Welcome to the forums ;-D > And yet it’s those people that we balance for. Yay! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoopop.5630 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 waiting on that day to come..... mesmer nerf hammer Mid season shall be upon us soooooooooooooooooooooon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagrant.7206 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 > @"apharma.3741" said: > I think a lot of people seem to have forgotten that Mesmer phantasms were just changed in how they work as well as some getting attack updates. This means there’s some L2P in what you avoid and how to cheese the new phantasms into doing no damage but also there’s some balancing that needs to be done, like disenchanter damage coming down a bit. > > I very rarely see anyone LoS phantasms, my favourite is how people seem to ignore the phantasmal mage pottering up behind them, stretching its arms in front of it, lifting them above its head ready for the almighty fire wave to follow. It’s very well telegraphed and you have 2 opportunities to deny the skill, first by interrupting, blinding or LoS the phantasm and secondly by killing the phantasm. How many other classes and skills in the game can you say that there’s 2 opportunities to counter it? > > Yes Elusive Mind is too strong, yes I’ve said many times even just after PoF that it was overpowered and said the stun break should be removed. Yes disenchanter damage is a tad too high but it’s also only on boonless targets which isn’t exactly common, imo it should do damage per boon removed not insane damage to boonless. Yes Swordsman is too strong, it’s the strongest offhand phantasm there is. However don’t mistake a video taking a strong build into PvP against potatoes as proof it’s too good. > > Finally remember, when you point a finger at someone else, there’s 3 pointing back at you. Many here won’t even admit to the aspects on their own classes that are overpowered. I do LoS phantasms, but it rarely helps unless I know exactly when the clone spam is about to begin and I have PF ready to go. Additionally, crying "L2P" when there's about a hundred clones rushing you is kind of difficult. Unlike a ranger's pet, it's hard to tell what each individual phantasm is doing in the heat of the moment. And that's sort of the problem -- large telegraphs on things I don't have the luxury to pay attention to doesn't help me in any way. And that also ignores the amount of disengage the mesmer has too. They can do some nasty damage and if they're in trouble open a portal halfway across the map, cleanse/heal with ease, then take the portal right back. Here's a thought: Want to balance portal in PvP? Let enemies take the portals too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnfall.9573 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 (gw2 beta-ex-veteran) **/wave** How long is this mesmer train gonna last? It's never has and never will (**'you're all supposed to play mesmer'**) (**'you just never role the classes that you're supposed to role'**) Enjoy the show Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Boyer.6524 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 * https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/33337/why-do-people-pretend-that-mesmers-have-a-high-skill-floor#1 * https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/33369/mesmer-invuln-block-evade-uptime-needs-to-be-toned-down#1 * https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/32984/elusive-mind#1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace al Thor.6745 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > * https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/33337/why-do-people-pretend-that-mesmers-have-a-high-skill-floor#1 > * https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/33369/mesmer-invuln-block-evade-uptime-needs-to-be-toned-down#1 > * https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/32984/elusive-mind#1 And? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkeyspit.3965 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > Super Powers: > * Highest burst damage > * Best self defense/disengage > * Wins rotations with self & group teleportations > * Can run any build/amulet and still be OP > * Immune to Arenanet nerfing > >  > I'm still new to GW2 / WvW, but the other day I was standing on a wall manning a cannon, and was shocked to have a Mesmer run past me, jump off, and engage 5 enemy pips that were crossing a nearby bridge - just full out Leeroy'ed them. And y'know what, they turned and run away from a 5v1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace al Thor.6745 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 > @"Turkeyspit.3965" said: > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > Super Powers: > > * Highest burst damage > > * Best self defense/disengage > > * Wins rotations with self & group teleportations > > * Can run any build/amulet and still be OP > > * Immune to Arenanet nerfing > > > >  > > > > I'm still new to GW2 / WvW, but the other day I was standing on a wall manning a cannon, and was shocked to have a Mesmer run past me, jump off, and engage 5 enemy pips that were crossing a nearby bridge - just full out Leeroy'ed them. And y'know what, they turned and run away from a 5v1. Yeah probably because they hate fighting other players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkeyspit.3965 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > @"Turkeyspit.3965" said: > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > Super Powers: > > > * Highest burst damage > > > * Best self defense/disengage > > > * Wins rotations with self & group teleportations > > > * Can run any build/amulet and still be OP > > > * Immune to Arenanet nerfing > > > > > >  > > > > > > > I'm still new to GW2 / WvW, but the other day I was standing on a wall manning a cannon, and was shocked to have a Mesmer run past me, jump off, and engage 5 enemy pips that were crossing a nearby bridge - just full out Leeroy'ed them. And y'know what, they turned and run away from a 5v1. > > Yeah probably because they hate fighting other players. Very possibly. Point is though, the Mesmer player chose to initiate a 1 vs 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace al Thor.6745 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 > @"Turkeyspit.3965" said: > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > @"Turkeyspit.3965" said: > > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > > Super Powers: > > > > * Highest burst damage > > > > * Best self defense/disengage > > > > * Wins rotations with self & group teleportations > > > > * Can run any build/amulet and still be OP > > > > * Immune to Arenanet nerfing > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > I'm still new to GW2 / WvW, but the other day I was standing on a wall manning a cannon, and was shocked to have a Mesmer run past me, jump off, and engage 5 enemy pips that were crossing a nearby bridge - just full out Leeroy'ed them. And y'know what, they turned and run away from a 5v1. > > > > Yeah probably because they hate fighting other players. > > Very possibly. Point is though, the Mesmer player chose to initiate a 1 vs 5. ...and? Thieves do it, warriors do it, Druids.... if you’re attempting to make a point you’re not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Boyer.6524 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > @"Turkeyspit.3965" said: > > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > > @"Turkeyspit.3965" said: > > > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > > > Super Powers: > > > > > * Highest burst damage > > > > > * Best self defense/disengage > > > > > * Wins rotations with self & group teleportations > > > > > * Can run any build/amulet and still be OP > > > > > * Immune to Arenanet nerfing > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm still new to GW2 / WvW, but the other day I was standing on a wall manning a cannon, and was shocked to have a Mesmer run past me, jump off, and engage 5 enemy pips that were crossing a nearby bridge - just full out Leeroy'ed them. And y'know what, they turned and run away from a 5v1. > > > > > > Yeah probably because they hate fighting other players. > > > > Very possibly. Point is though, the Mesmer player chose to initiate a 1 vs 5. > > ...and? Thieves do it, warriors do it, Druids.... if you’re attempting to make a point you’re not. No Thieves initiate 1v5 distraction. They don't actually fight 5 people and win. Druids cannot 1v5, especially in wvw where various buffs equating to large damage exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace al Thor.6745 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > @"Turkeyspit.3965" said: > > > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > > > @"Turkeyspit.3965" said: > > > > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > > > > Super Powers: > > > > > > * Highest burst damage > > > > > > * Best self defense/disengage > > > > > > * Wins rotations with self & group teleportations > > > > > > * Can run any build/amulet and still be OP > > > > > > * Immune to Arenanet nerfing > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm still new to GW2 / WvW, but the other day I was standing on a wall manning a cannon, and was shocked to have a Mesmer run past me, jump off, and engage 5 enemy pips that were crossing a nearby bridge - just full out Leeroy'ed them. And y'know what, they turned and run away from a 5v1. > > > > > > > > Yeah probably because they hate fighting other players. > > > > > > Very possibly. Point is though, the Mesmer player chose to initiate a 1 vs 5. > > > > ...and? Thieves do it, warriors do it, Druids.... if you’re attempting to make a point you’re not. > > No > > Thieves initiate 1v5 distraction. They don't actually fight 5 people and win. > Druids cannot 1v5, especially in wvw where various buffs equating to large damage exist. Nor should a Mesmer. However, thieves DO take out groups otherwise you wouldn’t have qq threads about groups being killed by a single thief pop up on the WvW forums once a week. The problem is that group of five either suck horribly or are zerglings running full zerker with Zerg builds and will get wrecked by any class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sephiroth.4217 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 > @"apharma.3741" said: > I think a lot of people seem to have forgotten that Mesmer phantasms were just changed in how they work as well as some getting attack updates. This means there’s some L2P in what you avoid and how to cheese the new phantasms into doing no damage but also there’s some balancing that needs to be done, like disenchanter damage coming down a bit. > > I very rarely see anyone LoS phantasms, my favourite is how people seem to ignore the phantasmal mage pottering up behind them, stretching its arms in front of it, lifting them above its head ready for the almighty fire wave to follow. It’s very well telegraphed and you have 2 opportunities to deny the skill, first by interrupting, blinding or LoS the phantasm and secondly by killing the phantasm. How many other classes and skills in the game can you say that there’s 2 opportunities to counter it? > > Yes Elusive Mind is too strong, yes I’ve said many times even just after PoF that it was overpowered and said the stun break should be removed. Yes disenchanter damage is a tad too high but it’s also only on boonless targets which isn’t exactly common, imo it should do damage per boon removed not insane damage to boonless. Yes Swordsman is too strong, it’s the strongest offhand phantasm there is. However don’t mistake a video taking a strong build into PvP against potatoes as proof it’s too good. > > Finally remember, when you point a finger at someone else, there’s 3 pointing back at you. Many here won’t even admit to the aspects on their own classes that are overpowered. Oh I think some of us know what parts are overpowered but people seem to just say the class as a whole is over powered. I think there's also some over powered traits that people haven't put into action yet with the right build such as "Imagined Burdon" combined with "Mirror Images" and "Shatter Storm"... That's actually really fun with "Continuum Split" cuz if you set it up right you can mind wrack someone or everyone on point about 4 times in 3-4s. To me that's OP, but to others it probably sounds stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lordrosicky.5813 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > I think a lot of people seem to have forgotten that Mesmer phantasms were just changed in how they work as well as some getting attack updates. This means there’s some L2P in what you avoid and how to cheese the new phantasms into doing no damage but also there’s some balancing that needs to be done, like disenchanter damage coming down a bit. > > > > I very rarely see anyone LoS phantasms, my favourite is how people seem to ignore the phantasmal mage pottering up behind them, stretching its arms in front of it, lifting them above its head ready for the almighty fire wave to follow. It’s very well telegraphed and you have 2 opportunities to deny the skill, first by interrupting, blinding or LoS the phantasm and secondly by killing the phantasm. How many other classes and skills in the game can you say that there’s 2 opportunities to counter it? > > > > Yes Elusive Mind is too strong, yes I’ve said many times even just after PoF that it was overpowered and said the stun break should be removed. Yes disenchanter damage is a tad too high but it’s also only on boonless targets which isn’t exactly common, imo it should do damage per boon removed not insane damage to boonless. Yes Swordsman is too strong, it’s the strongest offhand phantasm there is. However don’t mistake a video taking a strong build into PvP against potatoes as proof it’s too good. > > > > Finally remember, when you point a finger at someone else, there’s 3 pointing back at you. Many here won’t even admit to the aspects on their own classes that are overpowered. > > Oh I think some of us know what parts are overpowered but people seem to just say the class as a whole is over powered. I think there's also some over powered traits that people haven't put into action yet with the right build such as "Imagined Burdon" combined with "Mirror Images" and "Shatter Storm"... That's actually really fun with "Continuum Split" cuz if you set it up right you can mind wrack someone 4 times in 3-4s. > > To me that's OP, but to others it probably sounds stupid. This is why mesmer will never be balanced so it is pointless discussing it. The whole class is OP. Every trait line and most traits. To nerf it they would need significant across the board nerfs. This will take them years to do. Next patch they will probably nerf 1/2 traits, but an equally OP build will just replace it. So it will do nothing. The only way to nerf mesmer is to nerf f1-f4 across the board. I would suggest 25% nerf to f1 damage and 25% cooldown increases to the other skills. This would probably still leave mesmer as the best class in the game by far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace al Thor.6745 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 > @"Lordrosicky.5813" said: > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > I think a lot of people seem to have forgotten that Mesmer phantasms were just changed in how they work as well as some getting attack updates. This means there’s some L2P in what you avoid and how to cheese the new phantasms into doing no damage but also there’s some balancing that needs to be done, like disenchanter damage coming down a bit. > > > > > > I very rarely see anyone LoS phantasms, my favourite is how people seem to ignore the phantasmal mage pottering up behind them, stretching its arms in front of it, lifting them above its head ready for the almighty fire wave to follow. It’s very well telegraphed and you have 2 opportunities to deny the skill, first by interrupting, blinding or LoS the phantasm and secondly by killing the phantasm. How many other classes and skills in the game can you say that there’s 2 opportunities to counter it? > > > > > > Yes Elusive Mind is too strong, yes I’ve said many times even just after PoF that it was overpowered and said the stun break should be removed. Yes disenchanter damage is a tad too high but it’s also only on boonless targets which isn’t exactly common, imo it should do damage per boon removed not insane damage to boonless. Yes Swordsman is too strong, it’s the strongest offhand phantasm there is. However don’t mistake a video taking a strong build into PvP against potatoes as proof it’s too good. > > > > > > Finally remember, when you point a finger at someone else, there’s 3 pointing back at you. Many here won’t even admit to the aspects on their own classes that are overpowered. > > > > Oh I think some of us know what parts are overpowered but people seem to just say the class as a whole is over powered. I think there's also some over powered traits that people haven't put into action yet with the right build such as "Imagined Burdon" combined with "Mirror Images" and "Shatter Storm"... That's actually really fun with "Continuum Split" cuz if you set it up right you can mind wrack someone 4 times in 3-4s. > > > > To me that's OP, but to others it probably sounds stupid. > > This is why mesmer will never be balanced so it is pointless discussing it. The whole class is OP. Every trait line and most traits. To nerf it they would need significant across the board nerfs. This will take them years to do. Next patch they will probably nerf 1/2 traits, but an equally OP build will just replace it. So it will do nothing. > > The only way to nerf mesmer is to nerf f1-f4 across the board. I would suggest 25% nerf to f1 damage and 25% cooldown increases to the other skills. This would probably still leave mesmer as the best class in the game by far. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apharma.3741 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > @"Turkeyspit.3965" said: > > > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > > > @"Turkeyspit.3965" said: > > > > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > > > > Super Powers: > > > > > > * Highest burst damage > > > > > > * Best self defense/disengage > > > > > > * Wins rotations with self & group teleportations > > > > > > * Can run any build/amulet and still be OP > > > > > > * Immune to Arenanet nerfing > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm still new to GW2 / WvW, but the other day I was standing on a wall manning a cannon, and was shocked to have a Mesmer run past me, jump off, and engage 5 enemy pips that were crossing a nearby bridge - just full out Leeroy'ed them. And y'know what, they turned and run away from a 5v1. > > > > > > > > Yeah probably because they hate fighting other players. > > > > > > Very possibly. Point is though, the Mesmer player chose to initiate a 1 vs 5. > > > > ...and? Thieves do it, warriors do it, Druids.... if you’re attempting to make a point you’re not. > > No > > Thieves initiate 1v5 distraction. They don't actually fight 5 people and win. > Druids cannot 1v5, especially in wvw where various buffs equating to large damage exist. Thieves initiate on a 5v1 in the hopes someone get greedy, strays too far away and they get a kill, then possible follow up kills as the other 4 split, 2 to go back and rez, 2 clueless and continuing to choo choo etc. It’s a common roaming tactic not exclusive to thieves since HoT but they’ve always pulled it off the best due to high mobility. Sometimes it is a distraction as you say and they have 2 other players ready to AoE burst 2 into downstate. Druids can’t 1v5? I guess you’ve never ran into the incredibly lame minstrels druids that spend half their time in stealth, 25% of the time using evades on weapon skills or running away and letting the pet do the work. Will they win? No, no class should ever win a 1v5 or at least when you win a 1v5 it’s down to your opponents ineptitude rather than your skill. However a minstrels Druid can keep 5 people occupied for a long time before everyone gets bored and moves along. Though a root at the wrong time when you can’t get out of it can make zerk players die it’s mostly annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apharma.3741 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > I think a lot of people seem to have forgotten that Mesmer phantasms were just changed in how they work as well as some getting attack updates. This means there’s some L2P in what you avoid and how to cheese the new phantasms into doing no damage but also there’s some balancing that needs to be done, like disenchanter damage coming down a bit. > > > > I very rarely see anyone LoS phantasms, my favourite is how people seem to ignore the phantasmal mage pottering up behind them, stretching its arms in front of it, lifting them above its head ready for the almighty fire wave to follow. It’s very well telegraphed and you have 2 opportunities to deny the skill, first by interrupting, blinding or LoS the phantasm and secondly by killing the phantasm. How many other classes and skills in the game can you say that there’s 2 opportunities to counter it? > > > > Yes Elusive Mind is too strong, yes I’ve said many times even just after PoF that it was overpowered and said the stun break should be removed. Yes disenchanter damage is a tad too high but it’s also only on boonless targets which isn’t exactly common, imo it should do damage per boon removed not insane damage to boonless. Yes Swordsman is too strong, it’s the strongest offhand phantasm there is. However don’t mistake a video taking a strong build into PvP against potatoes as proof it’s too good. > > > > Finally remember, when you point a finger at someone else, there’s 3 pointing back at you. Many here won’t even admit to the aspects on their own classes that are overpowered. > > Oh I think some of us know what parts are overpowered but people seem to just say the class as a whole is over powered. I think there's also some over powered traits that people haven't put into action yet with the right build such as "Imagined Burdon" combined with "Mirror Images" and "Shatter Storm"... That's actually really fun with "Continuum Split" cuz if you set it up right you can mind wrack someone or everyone on point about 4 times in 3-4s. > > To me that's OP, but to others it probably sounds stupid. Yeah a lot of people on the mesmer forums, or at least the ones worth listening to, were scratching their heads at shatterstorm as it offers more upfront damage to mesmer....because mesmer has always had a problem with upfront damage right? Still can do the imagined burden, chronophantasma, signet of ether CS combos and nuke a point too, I guess it’s just a good thing there’s no distortion on phantasms anymore as it would be completely uncounterable. 16 berserkers twirling through a point will destroy just about anyone, bonus for using mirror images and starting on staff to get a few extra skills into CS and adding a GW or 2 into the mix. The up front nuking power possible is pretty insane if someone doesn’t jump on you straight away to stop or interrupt it. Edit: however as I said the class received one of the biggest reworks since specialisation were introduced and while it isn’t an excuse to have overpowered aspects its worth having possibly a few more balance patches just for mesmer maybe once a month for a couple of months to really tone down what is too strong or combinations that are too strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sephiroth.4217 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 > @"apharma.3741" said: > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > I think a lot of people seem to have forgotten that Mesmer phantasms were just changed in how they work as well as some getting attack updates. This means there’s some L2P in what you avoid and how to cheese the new phantasms into doing no damage but also there’s some balancing that needs to be done, like disenchanter damage coming down a bit. > > > > > > I very rarely see anyone LoS phantasms, my favourite is how people seem to ignore the phantasmal mage pottering up behind them, stretching its arms in front of it, lifting them above its head ready for the almighty fire wave to follow. It’s very well telegraphed and you have 2 opportunities to deny the skill, first by interrupting, blinding or LoS the phantasm and secondly by killing the phantasm. How many other classes and skills in the game can you say that there’s 2 opportunities to counter it? > > > > > > Yes Elusive Mind is too strong, yes I’ve said many times even just after PoF that it was overpowered and said the stun break should be removed. Yes disenchanter damage is a tad too high but it’s also only on boonless targets which isn’t exactly common, imo it should do damage per boon removed not insane damage to boonless. Yes Swordsman is too strong, it’s the strongest offhand phantasm there is. However don’t mistake a video taking a strong build into PvP against potatoes as proof it’s too good. > > > > > > Finally remember, when you point a finger at someone else, there’s 3 pointing back at you. Many here won’t even admit to the aspects on their own classes that are overpowered. > > > > Oh I think some of us know what parts are overpowered but people seem to just say the class as a whole is over powered. I think there's also some over powered traits that people haven't put into action yet with the right build such as "Imagined Burdon" combined with "Mirror Images" and "Shatter Storm"... That's actually really fun with "Continuum Split" cuz if you set it up right you can mind wrack someone or everyone on point about 4 times in 3-4s. > > > > To me that's OP, but to others it probably sounds stupid. > > Yeah a lot of people on the mesmer forums, or at least the ones worth listening to, were scratching their heads at shatterstorm as it offers more upfront damage to mesmer....because mesmer has always had a problem with upfront damage right? > > Still can do the imagined burden, chronophantasma, signet of ether CS combos and nuke a point too, I guess it’s just a good thing there’s no distortion on phantasms anymore as it would be completely uncounterable. 16 berserkers twirling through a point will destroy just about anyone, bonus for using mirror images and starting on staff to get a few extra skills into CS and adding a GW or 2 into the mix. > > The up front nuking power possible is pretty insane if someone doesn’t jump on you straight away to stop or interrupt it. > > Edit: however as I said the class received one of the biggest reworks since specialisation were introduced and while it isn’t an excuse to have overpowered aspects its worth having possibly a few more balance patches just for mesmer maybe once a month for a couple of months to really tone down what is too strong or combinations that are too strong. Maybe instead of toning down Mesmer, they could rework all the other classes to be at Mesmer level, I think it's great to be able to use all trait lines and I would like to see that implemented on Elementalist... Give us some build diversity, it would be refreshing to drop the whole Water/Arcane and have a valid Fire/Earth build or something. (gunna have to try that signet now, thanks for that tip although it sounds like I'm gunna have to have precise button mashing skills) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apharma.3741 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > I think a lot of people seem to have forgotten that Mesmer phantasms were just changed in how they work as well as some getting attack updates. This means there’s some L2P in what you avoid and how to cheese the new phantasms into doing no damage but also there’s some balancing that needs to be done, like disenchanter damage coming down a bit. > > > > > > > > I very rarely see anyone LoS phantasms, my favourite is how people seem to ignore the phantasmal mage pottering up behind them, stretching its arms in front of it, lifting them above its head ready for the almighty fire wave to follow. It’s very well telegraphed and you have 2 opportunities to deny the skill, first by interrupting, blinding or LoS the phantasm and secondly by killing the phantasm. How many other classes and skills in the game can you say that there’s 2 opportunities to counter it? > > > > > > > > Yes Elusive Mind is too strong, yes I’ve said many times even just after PoF that it was overpowered and said the stun break should be removed. Yes disenchanter damage is a tad too high but it’s also only on boonless targets which isn’t exactly common, imo it should do damage per boon removed not insane damage to boonless. Yes Swordsman is too strong, it’s the strongest offhand phantasm there is. However don’t mistake a video taking a strong build into PvP against potatoes as proof it’s too good. > > > > > > > > Finally remember, when you point a finger at someone else, there’s 3 pointing back at you. Many here won’t even admit to the aspects on their own classes that are overpowered. > > > > > > Oh I think some of us know what parts are overpowered but people seem to just say the class as a whole is over powered. I think there's also some over powered traits that people haven't put into action yet with the right build such as "Imagined Burdon" combined with "Mirror Images" and "Shatter Storm"... That's actually really fun with "Continuum Split" cuz if you set it up right you can mind wrack someone or everyone on point about 4 times in 3-4s. > > > > > > To me that's OP, but to others it probably sounds stupid. > > > > Yeah a lot of people on the mesmer forums, or at least the ones worth listening to, were scratching their heads at shatterstorm as it offers more upfront damage to mesmer....because mesmer has always had a problem with upfront damage right? > > > > Still can do the imagined burden, chronophantasma, signet of ether CS combos and nuke a point too, I guess it’s just a good thing there’s no distortion on phantasms anymore as it would be completely uncounterable. 16 berserkers twirling through a point will destroy just about anyone, bonus for using mirror images and starting on staff to get a few extra skills into CS and adding a GW or 2 into the mix. > > > > The up front nuking power possible is pretty insane if someone doesn’t jump on you straight away to stop or interrupt it. > > > > Edit: however as I said the class received one of the biggest reworks since specialisation were introduced and while it isn’t an excuse to have overpowered aspects its worth having possibly a few more balance patches just for mesmer maybe once a month for a couple of months to really tone down what is too strong or combinations that are too strong. > > Maybe instead of toning down Mesmer, they could rework all the other classes to be at Mesmer level, I think it's great to be able to use all trait lines and I would like to see that implemented on Elementalist... Give us some build diversity, it would be refreshing to drop the whole Water/Arcane and have a valid Fire/Earth build or something. No I don’t agree classes should be brought up to mesmer level. Some of the new traits are far too strong, easily stacking to 25 might shouldn’t happen without either a decent ramp up or it should be very short live, phantasmal force is just a huge damage increase. There’s also lots of other problems like how shatterstorm essentially allows you to front load or burst more on a class that already had a high burst combo. Chronophantasma is a 100% damage increase to a certain class of skills, phantasms. Then there’s also the haphazard distribution of damage mods and how some affect certain things like weapon skills and shatters but not phantasms, some affect only phantasms, some only affect shatters, the whole thing is a mess. While I do agree classes should have build diversity mesmers build diversity is so good because the recent rework has introduced a lot of extremely strong traits and trait synergy that shouldn’t really be left alone. Edit: Yeah I’ve also said woven stride on Weaver should be cleansed a condition on super speed/swiftness, would open up so much more build variety for Weaver at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faux Play.6104 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 > @"Lordrosicky.5813" said: > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > I think a lot of people seem to have forgotten that Mesmer phantasms were just changed in how they work as well as some getting attack updates. This means there’s some L2P in what you avoid and how to cheese the new phantasms into doing no damage but also there’s some balancing that needs to be done, like disenchanter damage coming down a bit. > > > > > > I very rarely see anyone LoS phantasms, my favourite is how people seem to ignore the phantasmal mage pottering up behind them, stretching its arms in front of it, lifting them above its head ready for the almighty fire wave to follow. It’s very well telegraphed and you have 2 opportunities to deny the skill, first by interrupting, blinding or LoS the phantasm and secondly by killing the phantasm. How many other classes and skills in the game can you say that there’s 2 opportunities to counter it? > > > > > > Yes Elusive Mind is too strong, yes I’ve said many times even just after PoF that it was overpowered and said the stun break should be removed. Yes disenchanter damage is a tad too high but it’s also only on boonless targets which isn’t exactly common, imo it should do damage per boon removed not insane damage to boonless. Yes Swordsman is too strong, it’s the strongest offhand phantasm there is. However don’t mistake a video taking a strong build into PvP against potatoes as proof it’s too good. > > > > > > Finally remember, when you point a finger at someone else, there’s 3 pointing back at you. Many here won’t even admit to the aspects on their own classes that are overpowered. > > > > Oh I think some of us know what parts are overpowered but people seem to just say the class as a whole is over powered. I think there's also some over powered traits that people haven't put into action yet with the right build such as "Imagined Burdon" combined with "Mirror Images" and "Shatter Storm"... That's actually really fun with "Continuum Split" cuz if you set it up right you can mind wrack someone 4 times in 3-4s. > > > > To me that's OP, but to others it probably sounds stupid. > > This is why mesmer will never be balanced so it is pointless discussing it. The whole class is OP. Every trait line and most traits. To nerf it they would need significant across the board nerfs. This will take them years to do. Next patch they will probably nerf 1/2 traits, but an equally OP build will just replace it. So it will do nothing. > > The only way to nerf mesmer is to nerf f1-f4 across the board. I would suggest 25% nerf to f1 damage and 25% cooldown increases to the other skills. This would probably still leave mesmer as the best class in the game by far. just make them all have a 3/4 second to 1 second cast time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace al Thor.6745 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 > @"Faux Play.6104" said: > > @"Lordrosicky.5813" said: > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > I think a lot of people seem to have forgotten that Mesmer phantasms were just changed in how they work as well as some getting attack updates. This means there’s some L2P in what you avoid and how to cheese the new phantasms into doing no damage but also there’s some balancing that needs to be done, like disenchanter damage coming down a bit. > > > > > > > > I very rarely see anyone LoS phantasms, my favourite is how people seem to ignore the phantasmal mage pottering up behind them, stretching its arms in front of it, lifting them above its head ready for the almighty fire wave to follow. It’s very well telegraphed and you have 2 opportunities to deny the skill, first by interrupting, blinding or LoS the phantasm and secondly by killing the phantasm. How many other classes and skills in the game can you say that there’s 2 opportunities to counter it? > > > > > > > > Yes Elusive Mind is too strong, yes I’ve said many times even just after PoF that it was overpowered and said the stun break should be removed. Yes disenchanter damage is a tad too high but it’s also only on boonless targets which isn’t exactly common, imo it should do damage per boon removed not insane damage to boonless. Yes Swordsman is too strong, it’s the strongest offhand phantasm there is. However don’t mistake a video taking a strong build into PvP against potatoes as proof it’s too good. > > > > > > > > Finally remember, when you point a finger at someone else, there’s 3 pointing back at you. Many here won’t even admit to the aspects on their own classes that are overpowered. > > > > > > Oh I think some of us know what parts are overpowered but people seem to just say the class as a whole is over powered. I think there's also some over powered traits that people haven't put into action yet with the right build such as "Imagined Burdon" combined with "Mirror Images" and "Shatter Storm"... That's actually really fun with "Continuum Split" cuz if you set it up right you can mind wrack someone 4 times in 3-4s. > > > > > > To me that's OP, but to others it probably sounds stupid. > > > > This is why mesmer will never be balanced so it is pointless discussing it. The whole class is OP. Every trait line and most traits. To nerf it they would need significant across the board nerfs. This will take them years to do. Next patch they will probably nerf 1/2 traits, but an equally OP build will just replace it. So it will do nothing. > > > > The only way to nerf mesmer is to nerf f1-f4 across the board. I would suggest 25% nerf to f1 damage and 25% cooldown increases to the other skills. This would probably still leave mesmer as the best class in the game by far. > > just make them all have a 3/4 second to 1 second cast time. Sure if you add it to every F ability in the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faux Play.6104 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > @"Faux Play.6104" said: > > > @"Lordrosicky.5813" said: > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > > I think a lot of people seem to have forgotten that Mesmer phantasms were just changed in how they work as well as some getting attack updates. This means there’s some L2P in what you avoid and how to cheese the new phantasms into doing no damage but also there’s some balancing that needs to be done, like disenchanter damage coming down a bit. > > > > > > > > > > I very rarely see anyone LoS phantasms, my favourite is how people seem to ignore the phantasmal mage pottering up behind them, stretching its arms in front of it, lifting them above its head ready for the almighty fire wave to follow. It’s very well telegraphed and you have 2 opportunities to deny the skill, first by interrupting, blinding or LoS the phantasm and secondly by killing the phantasm. How many other classes and skills in the game can you say that there’s 2 opportunities to counter it? > > > > > > > > > > Yes Elusive Mind is too strong, yes I’ve said many times even just after PoF that it was overpowered and said the stun break should be removed. Yes disenchanter damage is a tad too high but it’s also only on boonless targets which isn’t exactly common, imo it should do damage per boon removed not insane damage to boonless. Yes Swordsman is too strong, it’s the strongest offhand phantasm there is. However don’t mistake a video taking a strong build into PvP against potatoes as proof it’s too good. > > > > > > > > > > Finally remember, when you point a finger at someone else, there’s 3 pointing back at you. Many here won’t even admit to the aspects on their own classes that are overpowered. > > > > > > > > Oh I think some of us know what parts are overpowered but people seem to just say the class as a whole is over powered. I think there's also some over powered traits that people haven't put into action yet with the right build such as "Imagined Burdon" combined with "Mirror Images" and "Shatter Storm"... That's actually really fun with "Continuum Split" cuz if you set it up right you can mind wrack someone 4 times in 3-4s. > > > > > > > > To me that's OP, but to others it probably sounds stupid. > > > > > > This is why mesmer will never be balanced so it is pointless discussing it. The whole class is OP. Every trait line and most traits. To nerf it they would need significant across the board nerfs. This will take them years to do. Next patch they will probably nerf 1/2 traits, but an equally OP build will just replace it. So it will do nothing. > > > > > > The only way to nerf mesmer is to nerf f1-f4 across the board. I would suggest 25% nerf to f1 damage and 25% cooldown increases to the other skills. This would probably still leave mesmer as the best class in the game by far. > > > > just make them all have a 3/4 second to 1 second cast time. > > Sure if you add it to every F ability in the game or just give them one F ability like a lot of professions have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace al Thor.6745 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 > @"Faux Play.6104" said: > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > @"Faux Play.6104" said: > > > > @"Lordrosicky.5813" said: > > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > > > I think a lot of people seem to have forgotten that Mesmer phantasms were just changed in how they work as well as some getting attack updates. This means there’s some L2P in what you avoid and how to cheese the new phantasms into doing no damage but also there’s some balancing that needs to be done, like disenchanter damage coming down a bit. > > > > > > > > > > > > I very rarely see anyone LoS phantasms, my favourite is how people seem to ignore the phantasmal mage pottering up behind them, stretching its arms in front of it, lifting them above its head ready for the almighty fire wave to follow. It’s very well telegraphed and you have 2 opportunities to deny the skill, first by interrupting, blinding or LoS the phantasm and secondly by killing the phantasm. How many other classes and skills in the game can you say that there’s 2 opportunities to counter it? > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes Elusive Mind is too strong, yes I’ve said many times even just after PoF that it was overpowered and said the stun break should be removed. Yes disenchanter damage is a tad too high but it’s also only on boonless targets which isn’t exactly common, imo it should do damage per boon removed not insane damage to boonless. Yes Swordsman is too strong, it’s the strongest offhand phantasm there is. However don’t mistake a video taking a strong build into PvP against potatoes as proof it’s too good. > > > > > > > > > > > > Finally remember, when you point a finger at someone else, there’s 3 pointing back at you. Many here won’t even admit to the aspects on their own classes that are overpowered. > > > > > > > > > > Oh I think some of us know what parts are overpowered but people seem to just say the class as a whole is over powered. I think there's also some over powered traits that people haven't put into action yet with the right build such as "Imagined Burdon" combined with "Mirror Images" and "Shatter Storm"... That's actually really fun with "Continuum Split" cuz if you set it up right you can mind wrack someone 4 times in 3-4s. > > > > > > > > > > To me that's OP, but to others it probably sounds stupid. > > > > > > > > This is why mesmer will never be balanced so it is pointless discussing it. The whole class is OP. Every trait line and most traits. To nerf it they would need significant across the board nerfs. This will take them years to do. Next patch they will probably nerf 1/2 traits, but an equally OP build will just replace it. So it will do nothing. > > > > > > > > The only way to nerf mesmer is to nerf f1-f4 across the board. I would suggest 25% nerf to f1 damage and 25% cooldown increases to the other skills. This would probably still leave mesmer as the best class in the game by far. > > > > > > just make them all have a 3/4 second to 1 second cast time. > > > > Sure if you add it to every F ability in the game > > or just give them one F ability like a lot of professions have. Ele, Mesmer, Scourge, Guardian, Soulbeast, engi, rev, and berserker all have more than one F ability. If you count F abilities that give a second set of skills the necro counts. So out of 27 specs(core and 2 elite) 18 have more than one F ability. That leaves 9(7 if counting reaper and core necro) that have only one F ability. So that’s not a lot that’s actually the minority. Edited for spelling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lordrosicky.5813 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 > @"Faux Play.6104" said: > > @"Lordrosicky.5813" said: > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > I think a lot of people seem to have forgotten that Mesmer phantasms were just changed in how they work as well as some getting attack updates. This means there’s some L2P in what you avoid and how to cheese the new phantasms into doing no damage but also there’s some balancing that needs to be done, like disenchanter damage coming down a bit. > > > > > > > > I very rarely see anyone LoS phantasms, my favourite is how people seem to ignore the phantasmal mage pottering up behind them, stretching its arms in front of it, lifting them above its head ready for the almighty fire wave to follow. It’s very well telegraphed and you have 2 opportunities to deny the skill, first by interrupting, blinding or LoS the phantasm and secondly by killing the phantasm. How many other classes and skills in the game can you say that there’s 2 opportunities to counter it? > > > > > > > > Yes Elusive Mind is too strong, yes I’ve said many times even just after PoF that it was overpowered and said the stun break should be removed. Yes disenchanter damage is a tad too high but it’s also only on boonless targets which isn’t exactly common, imo it should do damage per boon removed not insane damage to boonless. Yes Swordsman is too strong, it’s the strongest offhand phantasm there is. However don’t mistake a video taking a strong build into PvP against potatoes as proof it’s too good. > > > > > > > > Finally remember, when you point a finger at someone else, there’s 3 pointing back at you. Many here won’t even admit to the aspects on their own classes that are overpowered. > > > > > > Oh I think some of us know what parts are overpowered but people seem to just say the class as a whole is over powered. I think there's also some over powered traits that people haven't put into action yet with the right build such as "Imagined Burdon" combined with "Mirror Images" and "Shatter Storm"... That's actually really fun with "Continuum Split" cuz if you set it up right you can mind wrack someone 4 times in 3-4s. > > > > > > To me that's OP, but to others it probably sounds stupid. > > > > This is why mesmer will never be balanced so it is pointless discussing it. The whole class is OP. Every trait line and most traits. To nerf it they would need significant across the board nerfs. This will take them years to do. Next patch they will probably nerf 1/2 traits, but an equally OP build will just replace it. So it will do nothing. > > > > The only way to nerf mesmer is to nerf f1-f4 across the board. I would suggest 25% nerf to f1 damage and 25% cooldown increases to the other skills. This would probably still leave mesmer as the best class in the game by far. > > just make them all have a 3/4 second to 1 second cast time. That would work too. It would add a little counterplay to the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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