How long more will Deadeyes go unchecked?

[Napo.1230]

Its hard for me to feel any sympathy sorry haha I literally quit playing revenant because of Necro (scourge to be exact) and how broken it is to melee with them. Rev is my all time favourite but it's paper atm so fuck you haha.

Deadeyes cause me no problem on most classes I find them so predictable. My tips are listen for audio ques, abuse terrain and look for black powder and the very bright laser beam.

The ones that trouble me are the ones who don't hide in stealth but use d/p to build malice and waste dodges.

[Napo.1230]

Also mirage is 10x worse it can't die. Rumour has it even /suicide doesn't even work

[Warkind.6745]

> @"EUmad.7645" said:

> > @"Warkind.6745" said:

> > I wouldn't mind stealth getting taken down a notch as long as the defensive and offensive capabilities of the classes reliant on them (mesmer/thief) got tuned up a bit in return. Stealth is a decent mechanic, but I get the feeling it's too difficult to implement in a way that doesn't encourage stack and burst to get the most out of it.

> >

> > That said, I hardly see any deadeyes in WvW because it's such a vulnerable spec. Any Necro that's been in WvW for a significant period of time should be pretty familiar with fighting/avoiding ranged builds.

>

> There is a big difference between thief and mesmer . For thief stealth is much more important as mechanic than for mesmer. Mesmer has far less access to stealth and usually, with power gs chrono/mirage, you can use the first attack chain from stealth but if you don't kill you can be in trouble .Thief on the other side has much more access to stealth than mesmer ,but mesmer has much more active defense and sustain . I think in any case stealth as a major thread on thief, less on mesmer .

 

In my experience fighting them, the mesmer meta relies on stealth at least as much as your average D/P thief and in the theoretical situation that stealth was nerfed across the board I think they'd suffer equally. All the evades/damage negation they have probably wouldn't be enough to offset it, and I think that despite being in an easily superior position to most classes right now they'd still need adjustments to balance it out.

[Red Haired Savage.5430]

> @"Napo.1230" said:

> Also mirage is 10x worse it can't die. Rumour has it even /suicide doesn't even work

 

I heard that Chuck Norris mains a mesmer.

[Shagaliscious.6281]

> @"EremiteAngel.9765" said:

> > @"intox.6347" said:

> > ranged classes are necro nemesis.... druid / soulbeast even core ranger can kitten necro without problem.

> > And deadeye is more than that... necro have low mobility even if you try wurm / sand swell... also necro almost doesnt have usable projectile def...

>

> this is true however deadeyes can remain perma invis while roaming until they choose to engage.

**> In which case, they would be dealing insane amount of damage out of invis with no tell.**

> They usually cast mark which is a daze/stun and then burst.

> This require insane reflexes from the player to break stun and negate their damage or for the player to trait auto-trigger damage immune traits.

 

That is untrue. Deadeye actually has the most obvious tells in the game, the voice line they say right before DJ fires. If you play with music on or sound low, I can see how it would be a problem, but if your sound is on and loud enough, you can hear the skill.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

Before asking for a profession to get nerfed, ask the experts of that prof what they fear, how they would counter.

 

Otherwise, it reads as if the poster thinks ANet should spend its time doing something that poster doesn't want to do themself: read up, learn new techniques, try out the class and see if it is (or isn't) that easy.

 

Deadeyes are, of course, annoyingly deadly. But so is any class when you don't know how to fight against it. Do the homework first, then come back and be more specific about what you'd change and why it's good for the game, not just for those who haven't figured out how to deal with the mechanics.

[XenesisII.1540]

Everyone: "Hey thieves what do you guys fear?"

Thieves answering while in stealth: "Stealth traps"

....

..

.

Everyone: "BWAHAHAHAHA, we gon plaster the ground with stealth traps just like necro marks!"

[Red Haired Savage.5430]

> @"XenesisII.1540" said:

> Everyone: "Hey thieves what do you guys fear?"

> Thieves answering while in stealth: "Stealth traps"

> ....

> ..

> .

> Everyone: "BWAHAHAHAHA, we gon plaster the ground with stealth traps just like necro marks!"

 

LOL, but in all seriousness stealth traps require 10 supply which you may or may not have and then you're stuck camping a stealth trap cause you can only have one trap up at a time, and deadeyes can remove revealed.

[XenesisII.1540]

> @"Red Haired Savage.5430" said:

> > @"XenesisII.1540" said:

> > Everyone: "Hey thieves what do you guys fear?"

> > Thieves answering while in stealth: "Stealth traps"

> > ....

> > ..

> > .

> > Everyone: "BWAHAHAHAHA, we gon plaster the ground with stealth traps just like necro marks!"

>

> LOL, but in all seriousness stealth traps require 10 supply which you may or may not have and then you're stuck camping a stealth trap cause you can only have one trap up at a time, and deadeyes can remove revealed.

 

It's a poorly implemented counter which came 9 months after release, tells you how little they were thinking about the pvp aspects of this mechanic in development, a couple classes got reveal over the years, but yeah now they can remove that too. WoW's system was done a lot better, stealth is used as opening combat and to get away, not constantly spammed in combat, if the target is in front of you then you have a chance to get a glimpse of them and you can hear a very distinctive audio cue for it.

[Kaiser.9873]

> @"StainedSilva.1726" said:

> I either killed a useless deadeye repeatedly with my soulbeast or the class is not actually as bad as people think. However TWO deadeyes I have yet to kill both, if engaged by both, with any class.

 

A Scourge will not kill a Deadeye, unless that Deadeye is pathetic. Too many disengages, too much stealth, and too much range.

 

[Red Haired Savage.5430]

> @"XenesisII.1540" said:

> > @"Red Haired Savage.5430" said:

> > > @"XenesisII.1540" said:

> > > Everyone: "Hey thieves what do you guys fear?"

> > > Thieves answering while in stealth: "Stealth traps"

> > > ....

> > > ..

> > > .

> > > Everyone: "BWAHAHAHAHA, we gon plaster the ground with stealth traps just like necro marks!"

> >

> > LOL, but in all seriousness stealth traps require 10 supply which you may or may not have and then you're stuck camping a stealth trap cause you can only have one trap up at a time, and deadeyes can remove revealed.

>

> It's a poorly implemented counter which came 9 months after release, tells you how little they were thinking about the pvp aspects of this mechanic in development, a couple classes got reveal over the years, but yeah now they can remove that too. WoW's system was done a lot better, stealth is used as opening combat and to get away, not constantly spammed in combat, if the target is in front of you then you have a chance to get a glimpse of them and you can hear a very distinctive audio cue for it.

 

See I'd be fine with stealth being like that, that you use it in your opening, but once you're in combat you can't go back in.

[Kaiser.9873]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> Before asking for a profession to get nerfed, ask the experts of that prof what they fear, how they would counter.

>

> Otherwise, it reads as if the poster thinks ANet should spend its time doing something that poster doesn't want to do themself: read up, learn new techniques, try out the class and see if it is (or isn't) that easy.

>

> Deadeyes are, of course, annoyingly deadly. But so is any class when you don't know how to fight against it. Do the homework first, then come back and be more specific about what you'd change and why it's good for the game, not just for those who haven't figured out how to deal with the mechanics.

 

Tbh I don't care about a nerf, except perhaps a longer mechanic by which you couldn't restealth as quickly. What I do know from trying Deadeye out is that it is not easily countered, can escape very easily(if built for it), can get huge hits off pretty easily, and makes a Scourge into meat with little to no danger.

[Kovu.7560]

• Decent thieves murder necromancers with mobility.

• Even the shottiest of ranged specs murder necromancers by kiting.

 

You just met one of the biggest hard-counters in the game. It'd be like throwing in a grass/bug type pokemon in to face a fire type.

 

~ Kovu

[MUDse.7623]

i wonder why there are so few players who run mainly deadeye, if they are this strong. deadeyes must have some downside to them, roamers are not known to avoid cheese builds so we would see way more if it was that easy.

but as it is most deadeyes i see are not maining deadeye but switch to them after being killed by one, just to realize that they will die again as they are inexperienced.

[Fallesafe.5932]

Deadeye is hard to play. Maintaining stealth is a juggling act that gets especially difficult as soon as you choose a mark. Good deadeyes put a lot of work into getting to that place. I have a deadeye in full BiS equipment. And I had to just shelve him after a week and roll a scourge because I was getting nowhere.

 

Cry all you want, but try it first. It may open your eyes.

 

 

[Strider Pj.2193]

> @"Kovu.7560" said:

> • Decent thieves murder necromancers with mobility.

> • Even the shottiest of ranged specs murder necromancers by kiting.

>

> You just met one of the biggest hard-counters in the game. It'd be like throwing in a grass/bug type pokemon in to face a fire type.

>

> ~ Kovu

 

Scourge is the reason I bring FGS on my weaver. They struggle vs any ranged mechanic. Of course some perform better because the player is more skilled vs ranged.,

 

 

[Nuka Cola.8520]

The fact that perma stealth is still possible almost six years after launch shows how much this dev cares about the balance in each particular game mode they offer in their game.

[MUDse.7623]

so in wich gamemode you can achieve something while being permastealthed? they fixed traps pretty fast as soon as it was possible.

[Arioch.4810]

long range firepower Vs a class that lacks invuls and/or blocks to weather the storm, in a 1v1 seting..i would say working as intended.

 

Heck, add in a warrior with shield and you get entire rock->paper->scissor lineup, hard countering one but not both..

[ToPNoP.2493]

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> i wonder why there are so few players who run mainly deadeye, if they are this strong. deadeyes must have some downside to them, roamers are not known to avoid cheese builds so we would see way more if it was that easy.

> but as it is most deadeyes i see are not maining deadeye but switch to them after being killed by one, just to realize that they will die again as they are inexperienced.

 

Absolutely, deadeye gets hammered hard. I want to learn it, but its mechanics are clunky. If someone is good on deadeye, they are probably great on something else. I know a revenant who is strait boss, but rev is terrible right now other than hammer spam. If rev gets buffed, then that person will make people raise eyebrows. I stink at deadeye, but that does not mean that I don't get lucky runs. If deadeye has any mechanic nerfs without buffs to balance it, then it will simply cease to exist as a competitive build. But really, it boils down to the best positioning of each class. If someone runs into a zerg of 50 by themselves and lives, either they got lucky or its passives carrying them, deadeye is a counter to those passives. But, I think deadeye is a hard roamer to learn. Maybe I will get lucky and it will eventually resonate with me.

[Turk.5460]

> @"ToPNoP.2493" said:

> > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > i wonder why there are so few players who run mainly deadeye, if they are this strong. deadeyes must have some downside to them, roamers are not known to avoid cheese builds so we would see way more if it was that easy.

> > but as it is most deadeyes i see are not maining deadeye but switch to them after being killed by one, just to realize that they will die again as they are inexperienced.

>

> ...If someone is good on deadeye, they are probably great on something else.

 

I'm good on Deadeye. I'm terrible at everything else except Warrior - which is pretty much the easiest profession to play haha.

 

 

[EremiteAngel.9765]

> @"ToPNoP.2493" said:

> > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > i wonder why there are so few players who run mainly deadeye, if they are this strong. deadeyes must have some downside to them, roamers are not known to avoid cheese builds so we would see way more if it was that easy.

> > but as it is most deadeyes i see are not maining deadeye but switch to them after being killed by one, just to realize that they will die again as they are inexperienced.

>

> Absolutely, deadeye gets hammered hard. I want to learn it, but its mechanics are clunky. If someone is good on deadeye, they are probably great on something else. I know a revenant who is strait boss, but rev is terrible right now other than hammer spam. If rev gets buffed, then that person will make people raise eyebrows. I stink at deadeye, but that does not mean that I don't get lucky runs. If deadeye has any mechanic nerfs without buffs to balance it, then it will simply cease to exist as a competitive build. But really, it boils down to the best positioning of each class. If someone runs into a zerg of 50 by themselves and lives, either they got lucky or its passives carrying them, deadeye is a counter to those passives. But, I think deadeye is a hard roamer to learn. Maybe I will get lucky and it will eventually resonate with me.

 

There is actually still a very strong rev roaming build right now in WvW.

Condi boon spam torment spam staff sword sustain herald.

They are almost impervious to power opponents and can duke for a good while against condi ones too.

[apharma.3741]

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> i wonder why there are so few players who run mainly deadeye, if they are this strong. deadeyes must have some downside to them, roamers are not known to avoid cheese builds so we would see way more if it was that easy.

> but as it is most deadeyes i see are not maining deadeye but switch to them after being killed by one, just to realize that they will die again as they are inexperienced.

 

It’s probably because most players either dislike sitting in stealth for 5 minutes stalking someone or put simply they can roll a much more easy class/build and face roll everyone, like condition mesmer.

 

Either way the problem is and has always been stealth camping.

[MUDse.7623]

> @"apharma.3741" said:

> > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > i wonder why there are so few players who run mainly deadeye, if they are this strong. deadeyes must have some downside to them, roamers are not known to avoid cheese builds so we would see way more if it was that easy.

> > but as it is most deadeyes i see are not maining deadeye but switch to them after being killed by one, just to realize that they will die again as they are inexperienced.

>

> It’s probably because most players [..] dislike sitting in stealth for 5 minutes stalking someone

 

well above was posted:

 

> @"EremiteAngel.9765" said:

> deadeyes can remain perma invis while roaming until they choose to engage.

> In which case, they would be dealing insane amount of damage out of invis with no tell.

> They usually cast mark which is a daze/stun and then burst.

> This require insane reflexes from the player to break stun and negate their damage or for the player to trait auto-trigger damage immune traits.

 

he said if the deadeye **choose to engage** so there is no need to stalk someone for 5 minutes, its a choice. then comes insane damage without tells so sounds to me like a pretty easy super safe build that will grant me alot of kills in no time.

 

but it is interesting to ask for a nerf without realizing that DE builds that daze/stun from mark and then immediatly burst are usually not the permastealth ones. going along side to SA with trickery instead of CS is quite the damage loss and the extra ini is not needed as you can oneshot - so no daze from there, if you try to remain in stealth you allways will go with silent scope and not with unforgiving - no stun from here ( tho you can use both together with traitswap during mark).

permastealth DE will mostly use oneshot with huge tells in form of a DJ, while the type of attack you described with a dazing mark and then instant burst with stun is from DE builds that do not focus on stealth. thats like if i said a full minstrel support guard shouldnt be able to ontop of his 20k burning ticks hit me for 10k with his traps, you cant put together qualities of different builds and say it is OP, each individual build has its own strength and weaknesses. stealthy DE will have a hard time to kill anything that is not a solo nekro on open field without properly baiting and DE not so focused on stealth can be taken out alot easier. so you need to quickly see what kind of deadeye you are dealing with and well as a nekro you probably need to try to allways be near envoirement you can use but you will be at a disadvantage, like the deadeye will have some reflect and bodyblock issues in a zerg fight as well as many other issues, cant be top tier in every encounter.

[Kaiser.9873]

> @"Napo.1230" said:

> Its hard for me to feel any sympathy sorry haha I literally quit playing revenant because of Necro (scourge to be exact) and how broken it is to melee with them. Rev is my all time favourite but it's paper atm so kitten you haha.

> Deadeyes cause me no problem on most classes I find them so predictable. My tips are listen for audio ques, abuse terrain and look for black powder and the very bright laser beam.

> The ones that trouble me are the ones who don't hide in stealth but use d/p to build malice and waste dodges.

 

So a class that hits like a sledgehammer from 1200 range is afraid of Scourge?